So everyone is following the new laws without a peep?

[DOC]

I haven't heard to much complaining about the new laws in a while or anything about what we are going to do to change it back and stop it from ever happening again.
I went to make a gun purchase and the new form that they make you fill out seems less like a check list asking if you are felon and more like a credit application. And with even private parties being forced to do background checks all the information seems like everything one would need for a registry but the name.

Also making someone buy a firearm before running a background check seems like entrapment. If ATF or CBI doesn't like doing their jobs maybe they should scrap the whole system. And we still shouldn't have to pay for a background check since we didn't want to fucking thing to begin with.

[ZERO THEORY]

I don't know what you're talking about, but we recalled two public officials, have a petition to repeal the laws in circulation, and are in the process of booting another one of the gang out of office. I'd say we're definitely complaining and doing things to take our state back.

[Great-Kazoo]

I haven't heard to much complaining about the new laws in a while or anything about what we are going to do to change it back and stop it from ever happening again.
I went to make a gun purchase and the new form that they make you fill out seems less like a check list asking if you are felon and more like a credit application. And with even private parties being forced to do background checks all the information seems like everything one would need for a registry but the name.

Also making someone buy a firearm before running a background check seems like entrapment. If ATF or CBI doesn't like doing their jobs maybe they should scrap the whole system. And we still shouldn't have to pay for a background check since we didn't want to fucking thing to begin with.


You not visit the L&P forum?? You not contribute to any of the recalls? You do anything besides bitch in GD?

What new form? Last one i did 2 weeks ago looks like the one i filled out 2 months before that.

Where did you go that "someone made you " buy a firearm before the BG check was ran ??

[anaphylaxis]

we recalled two public officials, have a petition to repeal the laws in circulation, and are in the process of booting another one of the gang out of office.

+1

I've donated hundreds to the recall efforts and signed the petition. Complaining with my wallet...

[DOC]

What about our choice for govenor? If they have pissed on and off enough people to get the whole lot of them thrown out. Who is going to be our choice to repeal all the laws and prevent their return?

[UrbanWolf]

Senator Brophy was on CSU campus a few weeks ago, he talked to a small group of students about repealing the gun laws. Fighting those laws takes time.

[UrbanWolf]

What about our choice for govenor? If they have pissed on and off enough people to get the whole lot of them thrown out. Who is going to be our choice to repeal all the laws and prevent their return?

Brophy said the Governor or future can learn from our dear leader and repeal the laws with EO.

[BPTactical]

You willing to be the poster boy for NOT following them?

And while having an individual pay for a firearm prior to the background check being conducted is somewhat unethical, it is not illegal.
Just ask Richie Wyatt, that practice got him all sorts of press.

[DOC]

You not visit the L&P forum?? You not contribute to any of the recalls? You do anything besides bitch in GD?

What new form? Last one i did 2 weeks ago looks like the one i filled out 2 months before that.

Where did you go that "someone made you " buy a firearm before the BG check was ran ??

Its the same form that's been used for some time. But its been a while since I went to an FFL I guess. But it seems like way to much information that they don't need to ask let alone know. Race, SSN... Hispanic or Not Hispanic.

And CBI wouldn't run a check for anyone but an FFL. And the FFL wouldn't run one without a purchase and even said that it was a lesser crime to do it. But not a potential felony like if I tried to buy a gun. And an FFL are so scared of Big Brother that even mentioning running a BG had them peeing their pants diving under the desks and saying thanks for being honest but we aren't even going to run a check or sell a gun you. Please leave.

I have been contributing too. Money mostly. I talk to people but they are pissed and don't support the laws even the ones that think they will do some good. But they aren't really getting out and doing anything. It seems like we are all so busy to see what is going on in plain sight.

[DOC]

And I don't think I'm bitching. I have just been out of the loop and need an update. I just don't know how to ask nicely. Its something that I am working on.

[UrbanWolf]

Its the same form that's been used for some time. But its been a while since I went to an FFL I guess. But it seems like way to much information that they don't need to ask let alone know. Race, SSN... Hispanic or Not Hispanic.

And CBI wouldn't run a check for anyone but an FFL. And the FFL wouldn't run one without a purchase and even said that it was a lesser crime to do it. But not a potential felony like if I tried to buy a gun.

I have been contributing too. Money mostly. I talk to people but they are pissed and don't support the laws even the ones that think they will do some good. But they aren't really getting out and doing anything. It seems like we are all so busy to see what is going on in plain sight.

That form has been in use for 2 years at least, only had a few minor changes regarding Hispanic and other groups or so.

[DOC]

Added some info to that post.

[UrbanWolf]

Added some info to that post.

This form?

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

[DOC]

That's the form. I forgot about the weight and sex question. A lot of none of your business questions.
I don't think that not following the law is the answer but the checks are a bit much.

[Great-Kazoo]

Its the same form that's been used for some time. But its been a while since I went to an FFL I guess. But it seems like way to much information that they don't need to ask let alone know. Race, SSN... Hispanic or Not Hispanic.

And CBI wouldn't run a check for anyone but an FFL. And the FFL wouldn't run one without a purchase and even said that it was a lesser crime to do it. But not a potential felony like if I tried to buy a gun. And an FFL are so scared of Big Brother that even mentioning running a BG had them peeing their pants diving under the desks and saying thanks for being honest but we aren't even going to run a check or sell a gun you. Please leave.

I have been contributing too. Money mostly. I talk to people but they are pissed and don't support the laws even the ones that think they will do some good. But they aren't really getting out and doing anything. It seems like we are all so busy to see what is going on in plain sight.

That whole too much info is the same info asked when you apply for a job. Your SS number is on every medical document.

Regarding the FFL deal. It seems you have changed your original "complaint" in this, from your first post. Your first "bitchin" implied they were forcing you to buy it PRIOR to running a BG check.
Reading this latest tidbit of info. It APPEARS you were wanting a BG check done through a FFL w/out an actual purchase. 2 different scenarios.
I highly doubt they were pissing their pants at your inquiry.

[UrbanWolf]

That's the form. I forgot about the weight and sex question. A lot of none of your business questions.
I don't think that not following the law is the answer but the checks are a bit much.

The form has been that way since i bought my first gun back in late 2009, they might changed section 10.a or 10.b in the recent two years but i never really pay that much attention on what race groups they define.

[DOC]

That whole too much info is the same info asked when you apply for a job. Your SS number is on every medical document.

Regarding the FFL deal. It seems you have changed your original "complaint" in this, from your first post. Your first "bitchin" implied they were forcing you to buy it PRIOR to running a BG check.
Reading this latest tidbit of info. It APPEARS you were wanting a BG check done through a FFL w/out an actual purchase. 2 different scenarios.
I highly doubt they were pissing their pants at your inquiry.
Pissing their pants was hyperbole. However, you could see that in their faces that it was an option. Even the Aussy guy was so shaken his fake accent was breaking up.
So we are talking about the new laws it just went off an a tangent about something I find distasteful since the new law seems to go nicely with the new forms and a quasi registry. Tell me I'm wrong jim?
I will do whatever I have to and can do without a second thought (legally) to get this shit fixed. I just want to know that I'm not alone. That there are real freedom loving Coloradians still in the state and that I'm not the last to leave.

[Great-Kazoo]

Pissing their pants was hyperbole. However, you could see that in their faces that it was an option. Even the Aussy guy was so shaken his fake accent was breaking up.
So we are talking about the new laws it just went off an a tangent about something I find distasteful since the new law seems to go nicely with the new forms and a quasi registry. Tell me I'm wrong jim?
I will do whatever I have to and can do without a second thought (legally) to get this shit fixed. I just want to know that I'm not alone. That there are real freedom loving Coloradians still in the state and that I'm not the last to leave.

Like i said, but you missed , go to the L&P forum. there a lot of folks of like mind, you're just late to the party.

[DOC]

I didn't miss it I dismissed it because I don't know what the L&P Forum is. I suppose I should know it or google it but you saying I was just bitching didn't convince me that I am missing something and I should check it out.

[clublights]

L&P is the legislation and politics section of this board ....


There is is more here then just the general discussion and trading post lol

[DOC]

I just click the new post button then click on whatever takes my fancy.

[brutal]

Its the same form that's been used for some time. But its been a while since I went to an FFL I guess. But it seems like way to much information that they don't need to ask let alone know. Race, SSN... Hispanic or Not Hispanic.

And CBI wouldn't run a check for anyone but an FFL. And the FFL wouldn't run one without a purchase and even said that it was a lesser crime to do it. But not a potential felony like if I tried to buy a gun. And an FFL are so scared of Big Brother that even mentioning running a BG had them peeing their pants diving under the desks and saying thanks for being honest but we aren't even going to run a check or sell a gun you. Please leave.

I have been contributing too. Money mostly. I talk to people but they are pissed and don't support the laws even the ones that think they will do some good. But they aren't really getting out and doing anything. It seems like we are all so busy to see what is going on in plain sight.

SSN is optional and can speed up the BGC as it's harder to end up matching some lowlife with the same name and other similarities. NOT required.


Pissing their pants was hyperbole. However, you could see that in their faces that it was an option. Even the Aussy guy was so shaken his fake accent was breaking up.
So we are talking about the new laws it just went off an a tangent about something I find distasteful since the new law seems to go nicely with the new forms and a quasi registry. Tell me I'm wrong jim?
I will do whatever I have to and can do without a second thought (legally) to get this shit fixed. I just want to know that I'm not alone. That there are real freedom loving Coloradians still in the state and that I'm not the last to leave.

You keep talking about new forms. As has been pointed out, the 4473 hasn't changed in two years.

Any FFL that's requiring a purchase before a BGC is a fool and should be avoided. You do have to have intent to purchase but until that BGC is complete and you hand over money, you can walk away. Most FFL doing private transfers, while they do not enter it into their bound book BEFORE the transaction, are gona want to see that gun. Seller must retain possession until the BGC is complete and the transfer can then occur with the FFL entering the serial# into their books.

[Rabid]

Donate and/or participate:
http://www.recallhudaktoo.org/
https://simplecheckout.authorize.net/payment/CatalogPayment.aspx (Kopel and sheriffs lawsuit)
Not sure what happened to the magazine limit going to the ballet petition.

As for governor i am for Brophy but do your homework and read up on Gessler and Tancredo and vote in the primary.

Mainly just open your wallet, get informed and get off your ass, like a lot of us have been doing, to get this BS changed.

[Bailey Guns]

Most dealers (FFLs) will most likely request you pay for the background check up front because that's a cost they are required to pay when they submit the check, whether you're approved or denied, or whether you change your mind on buying the gun. Most dealers will not require you to pay for the gun prior to completion of the check. Also, keep in mind not all the information on the 4473 is entered into the CBI/NICS system for a background check. Most of what is entered is identifying information that's no different than what you'd disclose for any credit check. Specific gun information is not entered into the CBI/NICS system for a background check...it's kept on file at the dealer's premises.

I also suspect that many people, especially among friends that have known each other for some time, are ignoring the law regarding background checks on private sales and the magazine capacity restrictions.


I just click the new post button then click on whatever takes my fancy.

Maybe that's part of the problem. It takes a little effort to be informed on what's going on.

[sniper7]

What new laws? I missed something

[tmleadr03]

I will say this. If for some reason I was not going to follow a law the first thing I would do is post about it on a public gun forum.

[TheBelly]

SSN is optional and can speed up the BGC as it's harder to end up matching some lowlife with the same name and other similarities. NOT required..

there might be more than one person named 'Tom Smith', so making sure they don't mistake you with the serial wife beater with a drug problem might be a good thing. YMMV

[osok-308]

While you may think everyone is just standing silently, people have recalled two officials based on this legislation and are in the process of recalling a third. There have been suits set up in an attempt to get these laws repealed. Sherriffs have stated that these laws are unenforceable (and said that as such, they won't enforce laws).

The legislative process takes time, while we may not be as vocal as we were right around the time that the laws were passed, you bet your backside that come election time we will be going full steam ahead. remember this is a marathon not a race.

[HoneyBadger]

L&P is the legislation and politics section of this board ....


There is is more here then just the general discussion and trading post lol
This.

I will say this. If for some reason I was not going to follow a law the first thing I would do is post about it on a public gun forum.
...and this

[Great-Kazoo]

I haven't heard to much complaining about the new laws in a while or anything about what we are going to do to change it back and stop it from ever happening again.
.


I just click the new post button then click on whatever takes my fancy.


Your own ignorance, based on "Whatever Takes Your Fancy" Highlights the problem with CO as well as voters nationwide. The Topic didn't appeal to you so you "Didn't Bother"


It really didn't matter one way or another until you inquired about a BG check, 11 months after the administrations in DC and CO pushed for Universal BG checks. So much for OUTRAGE.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Your SS number is on every medical document.


Definitely not true.


I have never used my social security number. because optional to me means dont do it.

I have and haven't. My last name is oddball enough it doesn't matter, I wouldn't be difficult to find.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I just click the new post button then click on whatever takes my fancy.

That sounds like a Gore voter from West Palm Beach ... seriously, 2074 posts and you're THIS out of touch? WTF ...

[Dave]

[Peep]

[spqrzilla]

And CBI wouldn't run a check for anyone but an FFL. And the FFL wouldn't run one without a purchase and even said that it was a lesser crime to do it. But not a potential felony like if I tried to buy a gun. And an FFL are so scared of Big Brother that even mentioning running a BG had them peeing their pants diving under the desks and saying thanks for being honest but we aren't even going to run a check or sell a gun you. Please leave.

Huh? What does this mean?

Does this mean that you wanted to run a background check on yourself to see if you'd pass even though you didn't have a transaction to make?

[fail]

So much fail.

[spqrzilla]

I will say this. If for some reason I was not going to follow a law the first thing I would do is post about it on a public gun forum.

Well, of course, wouldn't all sophisticated people?

[Beer]

[Great-Kazoo]

Well, of course, wouldn't all sophisticated people?

[Beer]

Only if they're the most interesting men in the world.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4577697615381462&pid=15.1

[BPTactical]

Definitely not true.



I have and haven't. My last name is oddball enough it doesn't matter, I wouldn't be difficult to find.

Lebowski is common enough, its your middle name of "Dude" that makes you stand alone..

[battle_sight_zero]

I have so far complied, however that is only because I was forced to purchase enough MAGS to last until all this garbage is overturned or when I move to another State. I do really miss trading with other law abiding gun owners with out the GOVT overseeing my right to trade or sell my property. All these laws have done for me is really solidify my distain for progressives and leftist. I HATE THEM with a passion. Sad how much things have changed since 2007, freaking sad. But the good news as stated, are 2A supporters and others who desire a more conservative government are waking up. I will say again Prop 66 going down in flames on Tuesday will be another example of the people waking up and countering liberalism and progressive ideals. Hopefully a good candidate will brought in to put LickEveryonesPooper back in the restaurant business. If Colorado had a decent Republican party in place the last three election cycles perhaps I would not worry so much. Those Golf playing country club people do not speak for me either, but I its to a point that we have vote for the party that wont hurt as bad.

[BlasterBob]

And CBI wouldn't run a check for anyone but an FFL.



I still have yet to hear any logical reason why those BG checks can NOT be secured by the individuals. Perhaps the $10 CBI fee is charged to the FFL telephone account and they may not trust individuals to pay their phone bill? Would not accumulate any more phone calls to CBI if an individual or an FFL made the phone call - a transaction is a transaction regardless if it is made by an individual or an FFL. The BG checks do not furnish the serial number of the firearm, only if it a long gun or handgun. So, W H Y???[Bang]

[Bailey Guns]

CBI heavily restricts who has access to the CCIC/NCIC system. Even when I was in LE we had to fill out paperwork and get CBI's OK to access data terminals in our patrol cars. Not sure what the statutes are governing access but I'd guess it has something to do with state law. Even cleared user's accounts are occasionally audited by CBI.

[Gman]

It's already really easy for the government to correlate all of the information on your BGC to your SS#. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

[Great-Kazoo]

It's already really easy for the government to correlate all of the information on your BGC to your SS#. If you don't think so, you're kidding yourself.

Call almost any company you do business / have an account with, like the cable co. When your ph number shows up on their screen they ask is this number xxx-xxx-xxxx your home or cell, are you still at xxxx anystreet anytown usa? believe me the shit you think they don't have, info wise should OUTRAGE ALL OF YOU.

I'm off to the L&P forums to see if Sleepy, OOPS, DOC found any topics that "catch his eye"

[Aloha_Shooter]

for me its not about the government having it. its about too many people having it. it is a SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, not a national id number. im tired of every dickhead business wanting it to buy a stick of chewing gum. if I dont have to give it legally, i dont.

Technically, you're right. The enabling legislation even specifically said the SSN could not be used as an ID number. However, I noticed in the tail end of the Clinton administration that the IRS started referring to it as "Taxpayer Identification Number" or TIN. I've never located the legislation that enabled them to violate the law that established the Social Security program but they ARE using it as a national ID number and have been doing so for years.

[Irving]

Technically, you're right. The enabling legislation even specifically said the SSN could not be used as an ID number. However, I noticed in the tail end of the Clinton administration that the IRS started referring to it as "Taxpayer Identification Number" or TIN. I've never located the legislation that enabled them to violate the law that established the Social Security program but they ARE using it as a national ID number and have been doing so for years.

A TIN and a SS are two completely different things. However, you can use your SS number in place of a TIN.

[Aloha_Shooter]

A TIN and a SS are two completely different things. However, you can use your SS number in place of a TIN.

The TIN used to be different. I have never requested to use my SSN in place of the TIN, the IRS changed the forms and instructions. I've even received documentation that no longer refers to SSN but has my SSN printed where it asks for the TIN.

In fact, the IRS even says SSNs are one form of TIN at http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29 (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29):


A Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) is an identification number used by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in the administration of tax laws. It is issued either by the Social Security Administration (SSA) or by the IRS. A Social Security number (SSN) is issued by the SSA whereas all other TINs are issued by the IRS.

Taxpayer Identification Numbers

Social Security Number "SSN (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29#ssn)"
Employer Identification Number "EIN (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29#ein)"
Individual Taxpayer Identification Number "ITIN (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29#itin)"
Taxpayer Identification Number for Pending U.S. Adoptions "ATIN (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29#atin)"
Preparer Taxpayer Identification Number "PTIN (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Taxpayer-Identification-Numbers-%28TIN%29#ptin)"




One of the arguments against SSNs was that they would evolve into a national ID number, a concept that was still a hot point for most people 50+ years ago. I remember the military used to refer to them as SSAN because the number was technically an account number rather than an ID number. On further research, I've found the IRS started using SSNs as TINs in 1962 but I seem to remember forms stating "Social Security Number" rather than "Taxpayer ID Number" prior to the Clinton administration.

In any event, the point stands that the SSN has de facto become a national ID number.

[ZERO THEORY]

Hey OP, here's something to consider. Those who choose to exercise civil disobedience and ignore unconstitutional (read: irrelevant and invalid) legislation aren't going to incriminate themselves and openly admit to breaking the law (even when the law itself really doesn't offer a way to prosecute offenders) when there are already plans in motion to get those laws overturned.

So...yeah.

[TFOGGER]

Obeying, yes. Without a peep, hardly.

[kidicarus13]

Obeying, yes. Without a peep, hardly.