View Full Version : New From the Bad Ideas Dept: TSA Union wants to arm agents
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-1105-tsa-guns-20131105,0,3754764.story#axzz2jkCZdvgD
When Congress (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics/government/u.s.-congress-ORGOV0000131.topic) formed the Transportation Security Administration (http://www.latimes.com/topic/crime-law-justice/laws-legislation/transportation-security-administration-ORGOV000000157.topic) two months after 9/11 (http://www.latimes.com/topic/unrest-conflicts-war/terrorism/september-11-2001-attacks-EVHST000001.topic), the agency's mission was clear: Its officers would not carry guns or make arrests. Instead, they would focus on screening passengers for weapons, bombs and other dangerous materials.
But the shooting (http://www.latimes.com/topic/crime-law-justice/crime/shootings/lax-shooting-EVCAL00048.topic) death of a TSA officer at Los Angeles International Airport (http://www.latimes.com/topic/transportation/air-transportation/los-angeles-international-airport-PLTRA0000070.topic) — the first fatality in the agency's history — could change that.
On Monday, the union representing 45,000 federal security agents called for the creation of a class of armed TSA officers with law enforcement training and the authority to arrest people.
If ever there was a group of people I'd less like to see with firearms....
lpgasman
11-04-2013, 23:21
I'm speechless.
This was my Facebook post this afternoon, right before getting on a plane:
Dear TSA,
You are not POST certified. You are not 'officers' in any law enforcement sense of the word. You have no law enforcement duty whatsoever. You are glorified baggage screeners. That's it.
Your job could be done by a small shell script written by a first year IT student for a class project.
You do not need to be armed, you need to be replaced.
Your assistance in this matter is appreciated.
The American Public
Aloha_Shooter
11-05-2013, 00:05
I want to see properly trained police officers at the airport, preferably non-unionized ones but I don't see THAT happening. I hadn't realized just how much airports had disarmed ... and this over 10 years after 9/11 while we're still under threat from al Qaeda and their affiliates. We don't need more TSA agents or to train them with weapons, we need to make use of the organizations that already have firearm training programs.
Yeah, who wants to see bozos like this with guns?
http://www.stuffistumbledupon.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Rules-are-for-other-people-TSA-breaks-law-funny-signs-meme.jpg
KevDen2005
11-05-2013, 00:13
I want to see properly trained police officers at the airport, preferably non-unionized ones but I don't see THAT happening. I hadn't realized just how much airports had disarmed ... and this over 10 years after 9/11 while we're still under threat from al Qaeda and their affiliates. We don't need more TSA agents or to train them with weapons, we need to make use of the organizations that already have firearm training programs.
Count me out for that job
There were 'contractor' types in full kit wandering around DIA today. No badges, levis, polo shirts, chest rigs, motorolas, and ear pieces.... oh and serpa thigh holsters. I wanted to take pictures but didn't want to get an extra freedom fondle in the back room.
If you haven't seen it, watch it, the documentary "Please Remove Your Shoes." It's made by a former FAA security officer. He explains that when the TSA was formed after 9-11 they gave them those nice blue uniforms and then threw on expensive looking badges to veil the false authority that TSA "officers" don't have. These people cannot affect an arrest, that's why we have police. They are not law enforcement. asmo explained it perfectly. They do not operate in any law enforcement capacity whatsoever. All they do is ensure you have a boarding pass, and operate magnetometers and related equipment... but they aren't required to have a guard license. I put TSA somewhere between crossing guard and hall monitor, they don't even compare to an unarmed mall security.
I was actually surprised that none of them are armed. Like it nor not by law they are our guards when in an airport. We are disarmed and reliant on others in airports, disarming the guards too makes even less sense.
kidicarus13
11-05-2013, 08:04
These people cannot affect an arrest, that's why we have police. Effect an arrest. If you're going to use the lingo at least use it correctly.
Effect an arrest. If you're going to use the lingo at least use it correctly.
I believe he did use it correctly.
Well we know DHS has enough ammo for them...
Great-Kazoo
11-05-2013, 08:29
One the flip side, could the same argument against arming TSA be used for us, the common citizen?
Dear TSA,
You are not POST certified. You are not 'officers' in any law enforcement sense of the word. You have no law enforcement duty whatsoever
IMO, Arming them / actual firearm certification would lead to removal, or resigning of a decent portion of borderline FSA types.
scratchy
11-05-2013, 08:42
An interesting thought, would having POST certified TSA personnel run foul of the 4th amendment?
Thread title says it all.
This is a necessary step to increase span of control. You will also see scope creep in the TSA's mission to include rail and highways--maybe eventually schools and places of employment that are deemed high risk.
Wonder why the Liberals hate "stand your ground?" Because outside of the home, they want their boots to be the only ones with guns. Stand ground creates a legal right to use force that threatens a very fragile span of control model...
Tsa agent stopping school children...
" Travel Papers Please" "Where is your star"
fuck that.
Nein! Du benotigt ein Pass zu fahren aus dem Dusche!
rockhound
11-05-2013, 10:48
Remember obama wants a civilian police force that is as well prepared and armed as the military
TSA on TSA crime so now we need elite TSA to protect us from other TSA. Oh joy.
Just let me and the other pilots carry.
kidicarus13
11-05-2013, 11:48
We need to get the TSA employees pilot's licenses and they can fly and protect at the same time.
BlasterBob
11-05-2013, 11:58
Better have the Postal Service provide armed guards in their post offices. Never know when some alleged "nut" customer (who has a concealed permit) might bring a concealed weapon in.......oh wait a minute. The armed guards will probably be guarding the employees so they don't shoot up the place.[Sarcasm2]
BushMasterBoy
11-05-2013, 12:01
http://vimeo.com/16710243
battle_sight_zero
11-05-2013, 12:07
this would be horrible. i have only flown 3 times since 1998. BUT, remember they are now using the Gestapo I mean TSA for school dances, bus stations and Im sure soon crosswalks and everywhere else. Arming these people who help us go full blown NAZI police state. I just picture the movie " The Great Escape" with Nazis checking papers at the train depot, then shooting the escapee in the back. fuck that. I would feel safer if they did away with the tsa and outlawed muslims.
TSA is already advising and evaluating school districts on security and emergency planning across the country to include the front range. No big fan fare has been made about this cooperation but it is taking place.
So let me get this straight, when a person who's attacked that's a government employee they want to arm themselves for protection. When a person is attacked who isn't employed by the government the government's solution is to strip them of all means of protecting themselves. I got that about right?
Though TSA would claim otherwise, the outcome of this event is a perfect example of a successful response to an attempted mass shooting.
Shortly after the perp made his intentions known, he was smoked by an armed responder.
Arming the TSA agents likely wouldn't have changed the outcome.
buffalobo
11-05-2013, 12:17
So let me get this straight, when a person who's attacked that's a government employee they want to arm themselves for protection. When a person is attacked who isn't employed by the government the government's solution is to strip them of all means of protecting themselves. I got that about right?
You got it. Difference is that for us it's about the children.
buffalobo
11-05-2013, 12:18
And guns are bad.
sellersm
11-05-2013, 12:23
Though TSA would claim otherwise, the outcome of this event is a perfect example of a successful response to an attempted mass shooting.
Shortly after the perp made his intentions known, he was smoked by an armed responder.
Arming the TSA agents likely wouldn't have changed the outcome.
Shhhh, don't confuse the issue with facts.
Did anyone read the article? Some member of a government union urges the creation of a special class of TSA employees who would be armed.
The TSA, DHS, Congress, and just about everyone else who would have to be involved in making something like that happen absolutely oppose arming screeners. It won't happen.
Next scary issue?
The TSA, DHS, Congress, and just about everyone else who would have to be involved in making something like that happen absolutely oppose arming screeners. It won't happen.
It *will* happen, eventually.
It *will* happen, eventually.
Name the time frame for that happening and I may take that bet.
For screeners to get armed, it would take a whole lot of political capital being expended by Congress and the Administration. No one outside of a few fringe elements in the union have any real interest in arming screeners.
Given what happened at LAX last week, if half of the screeners had been armed, there still would be one dead screener and at least one other screener injured before the shooter got shot. The only difference that might have been would be who shot the criminal.
This is a non starter and has no real legs.
The TSA is this country's Gestapo. It WILL happen. It's only a matter of time and is inevitable. The timeline will vary depending on political climate and # & frequency of disturbances but it's going to happen mostly because nobody gives a shit.
So let me get this straight, when a person who's attacked that's a government employee they want to arm themselves for protection. When a person is attacked who isn't employed by the government the government's solution is to strip them of all means of protecting themselves. I got that about right?
Bingo. You beat me to it.
lowbeyond
11-05-2013, 22:30
Heh. Yep
Dont you get it yet? They are better than you.
Heh. Yep
Dont you get it yet? They are better than you.
Pfft. Not any of the ones I have seen. They would barely be capable of pouring piss out of a boot if I told them the instructions were written on the bottom.
Calling TSA America's version of the Gestapo is demeaning to the Gestapo. You all do know what the Gestapo did right? Asking for papers and searching people would be one of the Gestapo's warm and fuzzy moments.
Tell me when you all think TSA screeners will be armed? I like my odds in this one.
Tell me when you all think TSA screeners will be armed? I like my odds in this one.
I wouldn't bet against you on this one. [Beer]
Calling TSA America's version of the Gestapo is demeaning to the Gestapo. You all do know what the Gestapo did right? Asking for papers and searching people would be one of the Gestapo's warm and fuzzy moments.
Tell me when you all think TSA screeners will be armed? I like my odds in this one.
Do you think that the Gestapo started out like that? The beginnings were just as humble and non-threatening as where the TSA is now. They all start somewhere and grow however much the people allow them to. They've already WAY overstepped their bounds and have far outlived their usefulness yet rather than dissolving the TSA we're not talking about putting them in charge of high school prom security and now arming them? Pretty soon with all this new found power they'll be given more responsibility. Then it's just a matter of time.
Do you think that the Gestapo started out like that? The beginnings were just as humble and non-threatening as where the TSA is now. They all start somewhere and grow however much the people allow them to. They've already WAY overstepped their bounds and have far outlived their usefulness yet rather than dissolving the TSA we're not talking about putting them in charge of high school prom security and now arming them? Pretty soon with all this new found power they'll be given more responsibility. Then it's just a matter of time.
The HS prom story was based on an issue that never happened. A judge ruled that TSA certified personnel were required to perform pat downs on prom attendees. TSA was not consulted, never sent anyone, and did not certify anyone to conduct any prom pat downs. I believe the NM State Police did send some people, but it is a two year old story about something that did not happen.
From 1933 to 1945 (life of the Gestapo) everyone in Germany lived in fear of a visit from the Secret State Police. Hardly what I think of when I think of the blue shirts at an airport checkpoint.
I generally discount most comparisons people make to any Nazi organizations. They are so often blatant hyperbole.
I, for one am not afraid of TSA. Not one single person in the entire agency even gives me pause for concern, other than my general disdain for wasteful, ignorance which seems to be so prevalent throughout local, state, and federal government. Do I wish my tax dollars were better spent, YES. Do I worry about the blue shirts morphing into brown shirts? Bwahahaha [hahhah-no]
I fear the TSA about as much as a mall security guard.
I do dread having to deal with them at airport security.
lowbeyond
11-05-2013, 23:09
Pfft. Not any of the ones I have seen. They would barely be capable of pouring piss out of a boot if I told them the instructions were written on the bottom.
Oh I'm not talking about competence. I'm saying they are your betters. Ask anyone of them, they will tell you. Especially the ones who put an ink stamp on your printed at home boarding pass. That saves us all from the zomg terrorists!
The HS prom story was based on an issue that never happened. A judge ruled that TSA certified personnel were required to perform pat downs on prom attendees. TSA was not consulted, never sent anyone, and did not certify anyone to conduct any prom pat downs. I believe the NM State Police did send some people, but it is a two year old story about something that did not happen.
From 1933 to 1945 (life of the Gestapo) everyone in Germany lived in fear of a visit from the Secret State Police. Hardly what I think of when I think of the blue shirts at an airport checkpoint.
I generally discount most comparisons people make to any Nazi organizations. They are so often blatant hyperbole.
I, for one am not afraid of TSA. Not one single person in the entire agency even gives me pause for concern, other than my general disdain for wasteful, ignorance which seems to be so prevalent throughout local, state, and federal government. Do I wish my tax dollars were better spent, YES. Do I worry about the blue shirts morphing into brown shirts? Bwahahaha [hahhah-no]
The HS prom thing was said partially tongue in cheek. There will be an instance there were they start to use them to secure special events and force them on us in ways other than air travel. After all, it's for our safety!
Calling TSA America's version of the Gestapo is demeaning to the Gestapo. You all do know what the Gestapo did right? Asking for papers and searching people would be one of the Gestapo's warm and fuzzy moments.
Tell me when you all think TSA screeners will be armed? I like my odds in this one.
Within 30 days of a successful mass casualty event at a major airport, we will see armed guards in TSA uniforms at airport security checkpoints and entrances.
In 2002, Congress originally authorized an independent, armed police force to be a part of TSA. About thirty people were hired and FLETC was gearing up an academy to train them as the initial group that would provide armed LE presence at all federalized airports. When PANYNJ, Atlanta PD, Chicago PD, along with all of the various airport authorities around the country realized that the federal government was moving to replace the local LE with federal LE, the local Congressional delegations stepped up and put an immediate stop to it.
The City and County of Denver, LA, PANYNJ, etc... have far too much at stake to allow any real take over of such a valuable local asset like an international airport by the federal government. If the federal government, i.e. Congress, couldn't pull it off right after 9/11, it is highly unlikely that any Congressional delegations will take that chance of losing just to increase federal control by utilizing an almost universally disliked agency like the TSA.
TSA reimburses local police departments for their presence and response at most airports. This arrangements allows the federal government the ability to have some control over local LE, but still maintains the political necessity of keeping the airport under the local jurisdiction.
Do you think Denver PD or Chicago PD, or any other local PD would just stand by and do nothing if the federal government was going to put armed screeners on checkpoints? Want to guess which union (local police or TSA screeners) has more political clout?
LAX Airport Police members and their union are already well on their way to getting increased funding to go back to having an officer present whenever the checkpoint is open.
When there is another successful mass casualty event at a major airport, I predict massive, overt local LE presence, beefed up exterior LE presence, and if available the local National Guard will be posted. Most of this stuff is predictable and there are many historical precedents for this type of response. After a few weeks or a couple of months at most, things will return to how they were before the event.
I predict that more airports will continue to move away from federal screeners and adopt contract screeners. This is especially true for smaller airports, but there are many probable future events which could speed this private screening option transition. One of these events would be a serious push to arm screeners. Local politicians will not let that happen.
Just my $.02, but I am currently staying at a Holiday Inn Express, so I might just know what I'm talking about [Coffee]
DavieD55
11-06-2013, 04:28
There will be an instance there were they start to use them to secure special events and force them on us in ways other than air travel.
Exactly.
battle_sight_zero
11-06-2013, 07:21
The HS prom thing was said partially tongue in cheek. There will be an instance there were they start to use them to secure special events and force them on us in ways other than air travel. After all, it's for our safety!
It is not tongue in cheek.
As stated in an earlier post TSA is advising and evaluating some school districts on security issues. This is going on all over the country including here in Colorado. There is little or no press on this but it is taking place.
I can't wait for the TSA to get armed. I can just see one of their drooling window-lickers shooting up a concourse because grandma wouldn't let him feel her up.
TSA aren't officers, they are agents, kinda like travel agents except TSA agents can't spell "travel agent".
What kind of people does the TSA hire?
http://travel.yahoo.com/blogs/compass/airport-luggage-thefts-reportedly-rise-tsa-012317876.html
You can add one more hassle to the list when traveling: thieves making off with items in your checked bags. And, there’s not much you can do about it.
One traveler found his expensive camera, missing from his checked luggage (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703581204574599953475913542.html), for sale on eBay. Another reported $160,000 in jewelry gone from her bag. And, a 12-year-old boy reportedly had $265 stolen (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/24187702/#.UZ1tm5y9L-7) in birthday money. None of them got the items or money back.
Yes, let's give guns to a bunch of theives.
In 2002, Congress originally authorized an independent, armed police force to be a part of TSA. About thirty people were hired and FLETC was gearing up an academy to train them as the initial group that would provide armed LE presence at all federalized airports. When PANYNJ, Atlanta PD, Chicago PD, along with all of the various airport authorities around the country realized that the federal government was moving to replace the local LE with federal LE, the local Congressional delegations stepped up and put an immediate stop to it.
The City and County of Denver, LA, PANYNJ, etc... have far too much at stake to allow any real take over of such a valuable local asset like an international airport by the federal government. If the federal government, i.e. Congress, couldn't pull it off right after 9/11, it is highly unlikely that any Congressional delegations will take that chance of losing just to increase federal control by utilizing an almost universally disliked agency like the TSA.
TSA reimburses local police departments for their presence and response at most airports. This arrangements allows the federal government the ability to have some control over local LE, but still maintains the political necessity of keeping the airport under the local jurisdiction.
Do you think Denver PD or Chicago PD, or any other local PD would just stand by and do nothing if the federal government was going to put armed screeners on checkpoints? Want to guess which union (local police or TSA screeners) has more political clout?
LAX Airport Police members and their union are already well on their way to getting increased funding to go back to having an officer present whenever the checkpoint is open.
When there is another successful mass casualty event at a major airport, I predict massive, overt local LE presence, beefed up exterior LE presence, and if available the local National Guard will be posted. Most of this stuff is predictable and there are many historical precedents for this type of response. After a few weeks or a couple of months at most, things will return to how they were before the event.
I predict that more airports will continue to move away from federal screeners and adopt contract screeners. This is especially true for smaller airports, but there are many probable future events which could speed this private screening option transition. One of these events would be a serious push to arm screeners. Local politicians will not let that happen.
Just my $.02, but I am currently staying at a Holiday Inn Express, so I might just know what I'm talking about [Coffee]
Are you joking? You STILL trust politicians at ANY level after what has happened and what is currently happening? Tell me you don't believe the statement that you just made because if you do then I gave you entirely too much credit. Not only will they 'allow' it to happen but they will usher it in the form of writing or sponsoring the bill if it furthers their political career in the eye of their party. Just you wait, once the topic comes up one party will take one side and the other party will take the other (since that's all they do anymore regardless of topic) and then during a swing in power at some point it will happen and most Americans won't even know it happened let alone care. Then one day we'll all wake up wondering how we got to the point where we are. Right now is how, wake the fuck up people! Politicians will eat their young for money & power so an 'outdated piece of paper' means less than nothing to them.
Politicians won't let it happen because it does nothing for them and in fact takes power away from those same politicians and gives it to a bureaucracy they don't have much control over.
I don't expect politicians to do things that are right or good for the people they represent. I expect politicians to represent their own self interest. They just don't benefit from giving control over their local airport to another federal agency.
Politicians won't let it happen because it does nothing for them and in fact takes power away from those same politicians and gives it to a bureaucracy they don't have much control over.
I don't expect politicians to do things that are right or good for the people they represent. I expect politicians to represent their own self interest. They just don't benefit from giving control over their local airport to another federal agency.
They going to man up and protect themselves from us when we've had enough of their bullshit?
We live in a nation where the politicians have addicted many citizens to government services. The people have willingly allowed this to happen. Somewhere along the way, too many people have forgotten that "Nothing in Life is Free." The majority of Americans would give up everything in exchange for comfort. If the politicians promise enough comfort, they have nothing to worry about from the masses.
One day the house of cards will collapse, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
I didn't think the mentally handicapped could carry firearms. I have ZERO good to say about TSA
Well, to revive this fine thread, I thought I would share the bill recently introduced by Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson (see Navy capsizing island due to too many personnel assigned video). Not only won't TSA be armed, in true progressive idiocy, Congressman Johnson and 10 or so of his stellar colleagues have sponsored legislation making all airports around the country "gun free zones."
http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/house-bill/3484/text
Obviously no one mentioned to these fine legislators that the Peoples Republic of California and the Los Angeles Oblast have already seen fit to make the possession of firearms inside of LAX illegal for anyone not professional enough to handle this here Glock pistol.
Back to the original point of the thread. This government will not arm TSA screeners. There is a better chance that the Department of Homeland Security or the Department of Transportation would hire 20,000 veterans and have them begin patrolling federalized airports in Guardian Angel outfits.
Be safe.
rockhound
11-19-2013, 19:33
so you cannot carry your firearm if you are at the airport to:
(A) Air travel ``(B) Meeting another individual. ``(C) Picking up cargo. ``(D) Employment at the airport.
So i can carry my firearm at the airport if I am only there to run around naked? What if I am at the airport to look at the planes on the runway, or just there to count the ceiling tile, cause thats my thing.
As long as i am not there for those other four things a gun is okey dokey.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.