Colorado laws and Hi-Cap Mags

[Stinky]

I was talking to an aquantance....he swears, up and down, that a private citizen can transfer a hi-cap mags (say 30 rds) to another private citizen. He says that the new CO laws only pertain to dealers.

But, he also told me that Mag-pul moved to Wyoming...

Was he correct?

[kidicarus13]

Incorrect

[merl]

on both counts

[spqrzilla]

Your friend is making up stuff.

[Great-Kazoo]

Your friend is making up stuff.

Or smoking it.

where do these fukin insane hypotheticals come from, the minds of Minolta

[tmckay2]

one thing i never got a straight answer on though, can we sell our mags to out of state residents if they are hi cap?

[Zundfolge]

one thing i never got a straight answer on though, can we sell our mags to out of state residents if they are hi cap?
The law is actually unclear about that and the AG's office hasn't written a memo clarifying it. The way the law is written it appears as though if you owned any full capacity magazines before July 1 of this year you have only three options, keep them forever (and I guess be buried with them), surrender them to the police or destroy them.

[Gman]

If I were to take my mags to another state where they are legal, and sold them to someone of that state legally, Colorado doesn't have a leg to stand on.

It's my property and the state of Colorado can just go re-read the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

[Great-Kazoo]

If I were to take my mags to another state where they are legal, and sold them to someone of that state legally, Colorado doesn't have a leg to stand on.

It's my property and the state of Colorado can just go re-read the 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

Gun Grabbers could care less about the Constitution, let alone read it.

[spqrzilla]

one thing i never got a straight answer on though, can we sell our mags to out of state residents if they are hi cap?
There is no straight answer. A strict reading of the text is that a Colorado resident cannot transfer a >15 round magazine to anyone. Silly as that is.
And strictly speaking, Colorado can create such a crime (ignoring for the moment, arguments that >15 round magazines are protected under Heller/McDonald ).

[O2HeN2]

...it appears as though if you owned any full capacity magazines before July 1 of this year you have only three options, keep them forever (and I guess be buried with them), surrender them to the police or destroy them.
I believe that once you're a resident of another state, at that point, no longer being a resident of Colorado, you could sell them. So maybe four options. :)

O2

[Circuits]

I believe that once you're a resident of another state, at that point, no longer being a resident of Colorado, you could sell them. So maybe four options. :)
O2
This. If you move, you can legally take your magazines with you. Once you are no longer a resident of colorado, and not physically present in colorado, colorado law no longer applies to you.

[merl]

This. If you move, you can legally take your magazines with you. Once you are no longer a resident of colorado, and not physically present in colorado, colorado law no longer applies to you.

Move along now boy, we don't want your kind round here.

[BlasterBob]

There is no straight answer. A strict reading of the text is that a Colorado resident cannot transfer a >15 round magazine to anyone. Silly as that is.
And strictly speaking, Colorado can create such a crime (ignoring for the moment, arguments that >15 round magazines are protected under Heller/McDonald ).

OK, now I am getting more than just a little confused. I had thought the 15 round or less magazines WERE within the new [pileoshit]law.
Yeah, I know, I am apparently just [beatdeadhorse]

[Great-Kazoo]

OK, now I am getting more than just a little confused. I had thought the 15 round or less magazines WERE within the new [pileoshit]law.
Yeah, I know, I am apparently just [beatdeadhorse]

> means greater than. > 15 rounds = 16 or more capacity.

[spqrzilla]

If you beat a horse long enough, you can be sure it is not faking. Also you make tender horsemeat and you can sell that to the French.

[Circuits]

Move along now boy, we don't want your kind round here.
How 'bout you beat feet instead, gnome? We don't take kindly round here to folks who don't take kindly.

[BlasterBob]

If you beat a horse long enough, you can be sure it is not faking. Also you make tender horsemeat and you can sell that to the French.
[oops][LOL]

[BlasterBob]

> means greater than. > 15 rounds = 16 or more capacity.

Thanks Jim for enlightening this old fart. I still have a lot to learn about these computer symbols.
[Flower]

[merl]

We don't take kindly round here to folks who don't take kindly.

As Morse and Giron have seen. Hopefully Hudak soon.

[Great-Kazoo]

Thanks Jim for enlightening this old fart. I still have a lot to learn about these computer symbols.
[Flower]

No problem i had to ask this20 yr old lady in a science course @ csu What the hell is that? hehehe you're just like my dad. [ROFL1]

[BlasterBob]

you're just like my dad

Well thanks jim, that tells me that your dad is one hell of a nice guy. [Beer]

[mpatch]

Thanks Jim for enlightening this old fart. I still have a lot to learn about these computer symbols.
[Flower]

not computer symbols, it should have been taught in math class, remember the alligator always eats the bigger one or < is less than > is greater than and = is equal to

[BlasterBob]

not computer symbols, it should have been taught in math class, remember the alligator always eats the bigger one or < is less than > is greater than and = is equal to

Right but that < and > stuff was not taught back in my school days however I still do remember that = stands for equals. [LOL] Graduated from H.S. In 1954.[blaster]

[Delfuego]

We don't take kindly round here to folks who don't take kindly.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0xPIpGhVEI

[Great-Kazoo]

Well thanks jim, that tells me that your dad is one hell of a nice guy. [Beer]

No, that's what the girl told me.

[mpatch]

Right but that < and > stuff was not taught back in my school days however I still do remember that = stands for equals. [LOL] Graduated from H.S. In 1954.[blaster]

But I thought they taught and you learned so much more back then? Those basic math symbols should have been taught in grade school and used all the way through college.

[BlasterBob]

But I thought they taught and you learned so much more back then? Those basic math symbols should have been taught in grade school and used all the way through college.

Basic math? Hell, we were lucky to have "basic arithmetic" back in the 40's. We did learn how to treat others with respect, don't take others possessions and be a person that keeps his/her word. With that in mind, back then there were many many few attorneys roaming around.
[blaster]

[Great-Kazoo]

But I thought they taught and you learned so much more back then? Those basic math symbols should have been taught in grade school and used all the way through college.

There are no symbols, on an Abacus!

[jerrymrc]

There are no symbols, on an Abacus!

I do not remember them on the slide rule as well. [LOL]

[BlasterBob]

No, that's what the girl told me.

[oops][sorry]

[mahkcod]

http://www.politicalnewsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/feinstein-e1359087213264.jpg?width=300

Is this the "aquantance" of which you speak?

[UrbanWolf]

^^^^

My balls just fleed up to my body cavity....

[osok-308]

There is no straight answer. A strict reading of the text is that a Colorado resident cannot transfer a >15 round magazine to anyone. Silly as that is.
And strictly speaking, Colorado can create such a crime (ignoring for the moment, arguments that >15 round magazines are protected under Heller/McDonald ).

Yep. Heller mentions guns I'm common use. Last time I checked, XD, glock, fnp, ar-15s, etc are all in common use and can take mags >15 rounds. This bogus new law should have been tossed out.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yep. Heller mentions guns I'm common use. Last time I checked, XD, glock, fnp, ar-15s, etc are all in common use and can take mags >15 rounds. This bogus new law should have been tossed out.

it should have never been signed. However as Hick said on the mike rosen show, when pressed. "It's Not a good law, or one i agree with, BUT WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING"
That statement also reflects the mentality of D's and liberals. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Why? is my question.

Which can also cross post in the tea Party is wounded thread, when some inquire why the R's can't be more "inclusive" like the D's[LOL]

[osok-308]

it should have never been signed. However as Hick said on the mike rosen show, when pressed. "It's Not a good law, or one i agree with, BUT WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING"
That statement also reflects the mentality of D's and liberals. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Why? is my question.

Which can also cross post in the tea Party is wounded thread, when some inquire why the R's can't be more "inclusive" like the D's[LOL]

Yeah, the "we had to do something" argument is total BS. if they are going to use that argument, they should at least finish the sentence "we had to do something TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER AND SHIFT THE BLAME FOR CRIME TO INANIMATE OBJECTS."

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, the "we had to do something" argument is total BS. if they are going to use that argument, they should at least finish the sentence "we had to do something TO MAKE US FEEL BETTER AND SHIFT THE BLAME FOR CRIME TO INANIMATE OBJECTS."

Hey man this is a discussion about the law, not a common sense web site. [Beer]

[Circuits]

It's Not a good law, or one i agree with, BUT WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING"
That statement also reflects the mentality of D's and liberals. WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING. Why? is my question.
More importantly, why isn't the something ever something like "throw a pizza party at the capitol to promote awareness" instead of "enact a law based on our fears?"

[UrbanWolf]

More importantly, why isn't the something ever something like "throw a pizza party at the capitol to promote awareness" instead of "enact a law based on our fears?"

Make too much sense, don't cost enough...

[DaBull]

I have some CO-grandfathered magazines (30 rounders) that I would like to transfer to someone out of state. A year ago, the consensus in this thread was that this law is poorly written with respect to this possibility. Specifically, the law prohibits transfers, without distinguishing between recipients that are in state or out of state. Is anybody aware of anything that clarifies the law at this time?

[cstone]

There are very few lawyers on this site and even fewer prosecutors. Any opinion you get will be worth exactly what you pay for it and you will probably get a few that disagree with each other.

If the magazines are legal in another state, and they happen to find their way into that other state, then what happens with those magazines would be governed by the laws of that state and/or local jurisdiction. Colorado law would have little if any effect on transactions conducted in another state.

I do not believe there are any Colorado LE conducting sting operations inside other states, attempting to identify and arrest Colorado residents who happen to break the current magazine law.

Always take anything you read on the internet with a healthy dose of cynicism.

Be safe.

[Zundfolge]

I do not believe there are any Colorado LE conducting sting operations inside other states, attempting to identify and arrest Colorado residents who happen to break the current magazine law.

Its my understanding that most law enforcement agencies in the state have flatly said that they have no intention of enforcing this law at this time (if ever) because it's too vaguely worded.

If you want to sell magazines to someone out of state just do it (assuming they're legal in the buyer's state), you're not violating "the spirit" of the law (which is intended to cut the number of >15 round magazines in the hands of Colorado serfs and proles) and I think you could argue that you're not violating the letter of the law ... which is a moot point if none of the state law enforcement agencies are enforcing it.

[johngraves2]

Here is a question I haven't seen asked: Let's say you live in WY right now or any other 2A friendly state, and you got a whole lot of 30 round magazine for christmas this year/purchased them for yourself during a sale or something. Now for whatever reason you have to move to CO. Can you bring those magazine with you? Are they illegal in CO? You owned them legally in your own home state, now you live in CO, but they were all purchased after CO's magazine laws were passed. So what does the law state?

[newracer]

Who's going to know?

[rondog]

I have some CO-grandfathered magazines (30 rounders) that I would like to transfer to someone out of state. A year ago, the consensus in this thread was that this law is poorly written with respect to this possibility. Specifically, the law prohibits transfers, without distinguishing between recipients that are in state or out of state. Is anybody aware of anything that clarifies the law at this time?
Put 'em in a USPS Flat Rate Box and mail 'em. Nobody's gonna know what's in it or even care, and they damn sure ain't gonna search it. For that matter, a friend or relative in another state could send some here to you. Hey, "I've had these for years, long before that law. Prove I didn't." This just illustrates how ridiculous this law is.

[Great-Kazoo]

Put 'em in a USPS Flat Rate Box and mail 'em. Nobody's gonna know what's in it or even care, and they damn sure ain't gonna search it. For that matter, a friend or relative in another state could send some here to you. Hey, "I've had these for years, long before that law. Prove I didn't." This just illustrates how ridiculous this law is.

True dat. The ONLY TIME someone knows mags are being sold to someone out of state........................is when they post it on line.

[Bailey Guns]

Here is the statute and some commentary in bold:


18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions

(1) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor.
Note it doesn't specify locations for this.

(b) Any person who violates this subsection (1) after having been convicted of a prior violation of said subsection (1) commits a class 1 misdemeanor.

(c) Any person who violates this subsection (1) commits a class 6 felony if the person possessed a large-capacity magazine during the commission of a felony or any crime of violence, as defined in section 18-1.3-406.

(2) (a) A person may possess a large-capacity magazine if he or she:

(I) Owns the large-capacity magazine on July 1, 2013; and

(II) Maintains continuous possession of the large-capacity magazine.
(I) and (II) appear to make it legal for someone who legally owns them out of state and brings them into the state.

(b) If a person who is alleged to have violated subsection (1) of this section asserts that he or she is permitted to legally possess a large-capacity magazine pursuant to paragraph (a) of this subsection (2), the prosecution has the burden of proof to refute the assertion.

(3) The offense described in subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to:

(a) An entity, or any employee thereof engaged in his or her employment duties, that manufactures large-capacity magazines within Colorado exclusively for transfer to, or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in section 12-26.1-106 (6), C.R.S., or any employee thereof engaged in his or her official employment duties, that sells large-capacity magazines exclusively to:

(I) A branch of the armed forces of the United States;

(II) A department, agency, or political subdivision of the state of Colorado, or of any other state, or of the United States government;

(III) A firearms retailer for the purpose of firearms sales conducted outside the state;

(IV) A foreign national government that has been approved for such transfers by the United States government; or

(V) An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine; or
This would appear to approve of sales to out-of-state buyers.

(b) An employee of any of the following agencies who bears a firearm in the course of his or her official duties:

(I) A branch of the armed forces of the United States; or

(II) A department, agency, or political subdivision of the state of Colorado, or of any other state, or of the United States government; or

(c) A person who possesses the magazine for the sole purpose of transporting the magazine to an out-of-state entity on behalf of a manufacturer of large-capacity magazines within Colorado.


This is such a charlie-foxtrot of a law that I'd be surprised if anyone, other than someone maybe who uses one in the commission of a felony, is ever charged under this law.

[DaBull]

All,

Thanks for the comments. I was hoping something conclusive had occurred, but failing that, I agree there is not much legal value in this discussion.


(1) (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, on and after July 1, 2013, a person who sells, transfers, or possesses a large-capacity magazine commits a class 2 misdemeanor.
Note it doesn't specify locations for this.


Yes, that is the part that worries me. It says sells or transfers, but doesn't say to someone within the state. This means the act of selling or transferring to someone out of state could put me in legal jeopardy, even though it appears to meet the spirit of the law (i.e., reducing the number of high caps in the state through attrition).

A couple of "what ifs" for debaters and lawyer wannabes:

If I sell the mags over the internet to a legal party in another state, is the sale considered to have occurred in the state of CO (because of my location or my residency) and subject to this CO sale/transfer prohibition?

If I leave the state on vacation with the magazine in possession, sell it in another state that has no magazine restrictions, and then return home to CO, am I free and clear since the sale did not occur in CO? Or am I still in violation, because I am a CO resident even though I made the sale in another state?

This would be fun if it wasn't so sad.

[Eric P]

Magazines are not serialized, nor registered. If you disposed of them out of state, how would anyone know where you disposed of them?

[Great-Kazoo]

Magazines are not serialized, nor registered. If you disposed of them out of state, how would anyone know where you disposed of them?

Probably due to his POSTING it on line. ASKING if he sold them out of state. HOW THE HELL ANYONE is going to know what one does out of state, UNLESS they splash it all over the interwebz.

Had a great time in mexico. You'd never think an American product like AR15 magazines from magpul would be such a hit down here. [facepalm] It use to be cigarettes and levi's. Next time we go south of the border, i'm really coming prepared.

[Erni]

Any chance you can contact attorney general and get a clarification? It would be informtive to get a clarification either way . If the answer is no you can't sell them, then does this turn into a case where the gov is preventing you from making money?

[Great-Kazoo]

Any chance you can contact attorney general and get a clarification? It would be informtive to get a clarification either way . If the answer is no you can't sell them, then does this turn into a case where the gov is preventing you from making money?

Why don't you contact an attorney? Unless you're sitting down, paying for his time, no one's going to give you a "definitive" answer.
The .gov, state or fed can do what they want, while not infringing on your profit margin. Now if you have a business, ask your attorney for an answer.
If you're an individual who feels the .gov is preventing you from making money. Make sure you've paid taxes on the profit, before rattling their cage.

[Bailey Guns]

All,

Thanks for the comments. I was hoping something conclusive had occurred, but failing that, I agree there is not much legal value in this discussion.



Yes, that is the part that worries me. It says sells or transfers, but doesn't say to someone within the state. This means the act of selling or transferring to someone out of state could put me in legal jeopardy, even though it appears to meet the spirit of the law (i.e., reducing the number of high caps in the state through attrition).

A couple of "what ifs" for debaters and lawyer wannabes:

If I sell the mags over the internet to a legal party in another state, is the sale considered to have occurred in the state of CO (because of my location or my residency) and subject to this CO sale/transfer prohibition?

If I leave the state on vacation with the magazine in possession, sell it in another state that has no magazine restrictions, and then return home to CO, am I free and clear since the sale did not occur in CO? Or am I still in violation, because I am a CO resident even though I made the sale in another state?

This would be fun if it wasn't so sad.

Did you not read the part about?

(3) The offense described in subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to:

(V) An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine

[Great-Kazoo]

]Did you not read the part about[/U]?

(3) The offense described in subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to:

(V) An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine

One would rather debate and ask others for info vs. doing the leg work them self.

[spqrzilla]

Bailey - the part "v" you are pointing out modifies 3(a) which applies to
An entity, or any employee thereof engaged in his or her employment duties, that manufactures large-capacity magazines within Colorado exclusively for transfer to, or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in section 12-26.1-106 (6), C.R.S., or any employee thereof engaged in his or her official employment duties, that sells large-capacity magazines exclusively to:

That means that a business in Colorado can possess high cap mags that entered Colorado post 7/1/2013 if they are going to sell them out of state ( part v ) or to the other exceptions in that list.

[Ranger353]

Just for the record, prior to the effective date of the ban, I purchased several dozen magazines of just about every caliber and manufacturer you can think of and have stored them away for that time in the future when I purchase the rifle/handgun that uses that magazine. The grandfather clause in effect. [ban?]

[Rucker61]

Just for the record, prior to the effective date of the ban, I purchased several dozen magazines of just about every caliber and manufacturer you can think of and have stored them away for that time in the future when I purchase the rifle/handgun that uses that magazine. The grandfather clause in effect. [ban?]


Me, too, just in case all those firearms that fell out of canoes wash ashore at some point.

[HoneyBadger]

Just for the record, prior to the effective date of the ban, I purchased several dozen magazines of just about every caliber and manufacturer you can think of and have stored them away for that time in the future when I purchase the rifle/handgun that uses that magazine. The grandfather clause in effect. [ban?]
I think thousands of people across Colorado really did this. Probably more than helped Magpul recuperate some of their losses and moving expenses.

[Hound]

Everybody I know, that is into guns, did this to the point it was ridiculous.

[Great-Kazoo]

I saved my receipts

[spqrzilla]

I saved my receipts

Receipts? Damn, I knew I forgot something ...

[Zundfolge]

I saved my receipts

I save my receipts for 7 years ... so if I don't have receipts that means I must have bought them more than 7 years ago :p

[Mtn.man]

When purchasing mags many years ago it was buy 100 get 200 free.

[brutal]

Bailey - the part "v" you are pointing out modifies 3(a) which applies to

That means that a business in Colorado can possess high cap mags that entered Colorado post 7/1/2013 if they are going to sell them out of state ( part v ) or to the other exceptions in that list.

How vile it is that only the law-abiding good people of this state are made into criminals by the mere possession of one of those evil standard capacity baby killing magazines.

More vile is how the idiotic people of Colorado elected representatives that were allowed to stick it to us like this.

[SideShow Bob]

How vile it is that only the law-abiding good people of this state are made into criminals by the mere possession of one of those evil standard capacity baby killing magazines..

Only if said magazine is acquired after 7/1/13.

[brutal]

Only if said magazine is acquired after 7/1/13.

Prove it. [Neene1]

[battle_sight_zero]

Here is hoping legislation will overturn this stupid law.. http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/EC5D2CD33A7C558387257D9000776992?Open&file=1009_01.pdf

[kidicarus13]

Here is hoping legislation will overturn this stupid law.. http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/EC5D2CD33A7C558387257D9000776992?Open&file=1009_01.pdf
Nice find. I knew it was out there Ijust couldn't find it.

[JVC]

Nice find. I knew it was out there Ijust couldn't find it.

FYI - if this was previously posted, my apologies, but here is a link to the RMGO bill watch page, summarizing the status of gun control legislation in the Colorado Assembly: http://www.rmgo.org/political/gun-laws/billwatch

[muddywings]

First day of Colorado legislative session targets gun control, abortion laws

http://gazette.com/first-day-of-colorado-legislative-session-targets-gun-control-abortion-laws/article/1544206 (http://gazette.com/first-day-of-colorado-legislative-session-targets-gun-control-abortion-laws/article/1544206)

[Circuits]

Here is hoping legislation will overturn this stupid law.. http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2015A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/EC5D2CD33A7C558387257D9000776992?Open&file=1009_01.pdf
Even if it passes, Hick'll never sign it.

[TFOGGER]

Even if it passes, Hick'll never sign it.

No, and they don't have enough votes to overturn a veto. The one thing it will do, though(assuming it makes it to Hick's desk) is force him to show his hand. If he signs it, then he shoots himself in the foot with Bloominidiot and that crowd, if he vetoes it, then he's proven to be a huge hypocrite(re: his comments to the Sheriffs last year). Either way, if this somehow gets to his desk, then Hick's screwed.

[Zundfolge]

If he signs it, then he shoots himself in the foot with Bloominidiot and that crowd...

Which ironically would save his political career.

[DaBull]

Did you not read the part about?

(3) The offense described in subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to:

(V) An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine

I did. But (3)(a) indicates (V) applies to manufacturers.



Why don't you contact an attorney? Unless you're sitting down, paying for his time, no one's going to give you a "definitive" answer.


I haven't been following this issue too closely. I thought I would ask in case something had transpired over the last year to clarify the law. I guess no enforcement means no movement. The follow up questions were just asked out of curiosity. Without clarity, I have no plans to transfer anything.

Cheers, Dan

[buckshotbarlow]

When purchasing mags many years ago it was buy 100 get 200 free.
i was still riding a horse back then...you?

[DavieD55]

This closet marxist (speaker of the house) will do whatever it takes to ensure a no vote on any pro 2A legislation in the house committees.




http://youtu.be/QFJUOC0fElw

[Bailey Guns]

She's been smoking crack.

[mcjhr]

This closet marxist (speaker of the house) will do whatever it takes to ensure a no vote on any pro 2A legislation in the house committees.




http://youtu.be/QFJUOC0fElw
I can't even finish the video.... Same feel good law making BS. The pathetic part is they still use "people of Colorado wanted this".