View Full Version : Is it worth it? (go after credit card fraud people)
So, oddly enough, reading the last couple threads and having probably a 6 year clean streak....my wife used her card somewhere and some assholes got the number. they put on about $500 charge to cabelas.
I talked to the credit card company, dispute the charge...not responsible for it blah blah blah. new card coming.
I call cabelas in hopes that I caught it soon enough and to see if I can get them to stop shipment. too late it go delivered yesterday as they paid (or used my card) for next day/2 day shipping.
Cabelas is kind enough to give me the shipping address as well as what they ordered (2 pairs of boots and some angler bibs)
So feeling nice, I just called the police department in Agawam Massachusetts. lady listens for a minute, then tells me that if I want to do anything I need to call my local police first, then they can handle it from there....I tell her these people are .6 miles away from their station....no dice.
just called the sheriffs office who is not far as well but they are closed, so i think I might call them tomorrow.
anyways, I'm curious, has anyone here gone to the level needed for the people to get caught? Is it even worth it for me to try? for the local LEO, have you have heard of a incident such as this where you guys follow through, file the police report, call the local police, get them to get a warrant, get into the house to verify the items are there or that they made the order, then bust them? I know the more the time clicks, the fast the items could be given out as presents, moved to another location, the trash taken out with the box/shipping label on it etc etc.
I'm not going to lose anything, but I want these assholes to lose a lot. their address is 22 cleveland st. Feeding Hills, MA 01030.
Years ago a card I had never used got pop'd somehow... No charge to me. Delivered to some guy in MN.
Called the local pd and filed but never heard of anything happening. Having spent years at UPS never seen anything happen, even when there was known fraud. Cops never did anything I knew of...
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
I call cabelas in hopes that I caught it soon enough and to see if I can get them to stop shipment. too late it go delivered yesterday as they paid (or used my card) for next day/2 day shipping.
Cabelas is kind enough to give me the shipping address as well as what they ordered (2 pairs of boots and some angler bibs)
anyways, I'm curious, has anyone here gone to the level needed for the people to get caught? Is it even worth it for me to try? for the local LEO, have you have heard of a incident such as this where you guys follow through, file the police report, call the local police, get them to get a warrant, get into the house to verify the items are there or that they made the order, then bust them? I know the more the time clicks, the fast the items could be given out as presents, moved to another location, the trash taken out with the box/shipping label on it etc etc.
I'm not going to lose anything, but I want these assholes to lose a lot. their address is 22 cleveland st. Feeding Hills, MA 01030.
I am completely amazed that you got the address of where the merchandise was shipped to charged on your card.
I have tried this in the past wanting to get these card thieves caught and end up getting assholes on the other end that you would think, since they will have the money charged for the items they sold reversed on them and they will be out merchandise would care a little. They didn't care probably as they are just an employee with no vested interest in the company.
One other time my card # was stolen and used, the item was shipped to my addy in my name. Colon cleansing anyone? (this is the test before they try to buy something big I was told)
I would take what ever steps to get these fuckers caught but dont go above and beyond unless the local PD or Sheriff will take it on. Maybe they wanted you to call your PD to start the process and then they send to MA make it an interstate based crime, hell I dont know.
BTW sorry it happened to you to within weeks of mine. :(
The gal at my bank told me couple weeks ago it is that time, CC fraud doubles and triples this time of the year.
Years ago a card I had never used got pop'd somehow... No charge to me. Delivered to some guy in MN.
Called the local pd and filed but never heard of anything happening. Having spent years at UPS never seen anything happen, even when there was known fraud. Cops never did anything I knew of...
.
................... that is my experience so far, like it is something on the "Bottom" of their priority list and since the victim got reimbursed by the credit card company who cares, retail insurance takes care of the retailer and the criminal they got free shit.
You have no loss. Credit card company doesn't care enough or have a big enough loss to prosecute. If you went after them what would your goal be? It sucks but that's the way it is set up by the credit card company.
BushMasterBoy
11-16-2013, 22:02
I had the same thing last year. Cabelas, Lady at Cabelas asked if I lived in Fountain. I guess credit company ate the loss.
Nice blue STI in the driveway. Sure would be a shame if $500 worth of damage happened to it.
Too bad there isn't a service that could deliver remote justice. Oh, is that a crime? Well I guess he could down to the PD half a mile away and report it.
(I hate thieves, if you couldn't tell)
I hope it works out for you OP. You should be protected through your CC company/bank.
mtnrider
11-16-2013, 22:19
You have no loss. Credit card company doesn't care enough or have a big enough loss to prosecute. If you went after them what would your goal be? It sucks but that's the way it is set up by the credit card company.
I might be way off on this but I would bet that any loss that your credit card company encores is passed back on to you (or merchants) or used as a tax write off (loss) There by penalizing us all.
I say shame on them for not going after these dirt bags. I bet they would change there tune if they couldn't write off all that loss at the end of the year.
So feeling nice, I just called the police department in Agawam Massachusetts. lady listens for a minute, then tells me that if I want to do anything I need to call my local police first, then they can handle it from there....I tell her these people are .6 miles away from their station....no dice.
Maybe call the county Sheriff's office in Mass.? Perhaps the Mass. state police have an "internet crimes bureau" of some sort?
Tis likely it is not even the people at that address but someone nearby. Pick a house you know everyone is gone all day and snag the box before they get home.
HoneyBadger
11-16-2013, 22:29
It seems like this would be super easy to prosecute... Not sure why it wouldn't be worth pursuing.
Just because that is the address the items were shipped to does not mean the thieves live there. Plenty of cc thieves have their stolen goods delivered to an elderly relatives address or a residence nearby where people work all day and the items are left on the porch.
It is inconvenient for the card holder but no loss to you. The banks recover their losses in processing fees, and business write-offs. They consider a certain amount of theft as the cost of doing business.
Once in a while a large enough ring of people can be connected to make the prosecution worthwhile. The Secret Service has had a credit card fraud group in most of their larger field offices for decades. They work with banks to identify larger groups and set up controlled deliveries to identify and work rings into prosecutions large enough to get the interest of the US Attorney.
Many of the overseas groups will identify lonely seniors or women and have them trans-ship the stolen goods out of the country.
Is it worth your time? If you can find someone locally who is willing to work the case, it might be worth your time. Otherwise, probably not.
Great-Kazoo
11-16-2013, 22:31
You have no loss. Credit card company doesn't care enough or have a big enough loss to prosecute. If you went after them what would your goal be? It sucks but that's the way it is set up by the credit card company.
I might be way off on this but I would bet that any loss that your credit card company encores is passed back on to you (or merchants) or used as a tax write off (loss) There by penalizing us all.
I say shame on them for not going after these dirt bags. I bet they would change there tune if they couldn't write off all that loss at the end of the year.
Unless the CC co wants to pursue charges the LE's will not do anything.
CC CO's have what they call Acceptable Loss. which is figured out to be approx $5-10K per customer. They write it off (interest rates passed on) and everyone goes their merry way. My last CC was hit for $4K. $2500 to 1 business in CA. the same time someone in Ill was buying lunch for whoever, to the tune of $700.
The "CSR" rep asked me Are you sure you didn't charge that amount to the business in CA? Lady if i did i am sure my lunch tab must be a mistake, OR while buying everyone lunch i was joy riding around CA, AT THE SAME TIME.
No one cares, No one Gives a Shit, fuck you fuck me fuck everyone.
Realistically i could steal someone's CC go on a spending spree, keep the charges under $3-400 per and walk. Look at express lanes in stores. Scan, Swipe, Steal. No way to check ID, No way to verify when your CC, as mine says C I D where a signature belongs. I asked the checkout girl, don't you want to see my ID? No sir not for any transaction under $50.
That $50 adds up real fast, bullets, primers, reloading manuals, on and on and on.
FSA has wiped out this country the last 20 years.
Don't hit you kid, Don't discipline them, DON'T DON'T DON'T.
DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY[Bang]
Nothing will probably happen from LE. IMHO you're wasting your time trying to gather evidence and investigate yourself for a prosecution. Had a card stolen locally and I literally gave the local PD a name, adress and had a merchant send video surveillance of the person using my card to them. Nothing happened and all I wanted was the dirtbag to go to jail so they couldn't do it to the next person. There's more important shit that LE has to deal with.
I'd try and track down a phone number for the residence. Shouldn't be too hard; our number has never been listed and I just entered our old address and phone number in Google and up pops my name and unlisted number. It could be a neighbor, some relative or someone who has no idea what happened but I'd still give them a call just to see what comes of it.
FSA has wiped out this country the last 20 years.
Don't hit you kid, Don't discipline them, DON'T DON'T DON'T.
DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY[Bang]
Are you happy Jim?
[Coffee]
Great-Kazoo
11-16-2013, 22:41
Are you happy Jim?
[Coffee]
I AM STOKED. Just received my AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE PACKET.
see my thread. read it and weep suckers.
ChunkyMonkey
11-16-2013, 22:41
I'd try and track down a phone number for the residence. Shouldn't be too hard; our number has never been listed and I just entered our old address and phone number in Google and up pops my name and unlisted number. It could be a neighbor, some relative or someone who has no idea what happened but I'd still give them a call just to see what comes of it.
That's old school. Credit card gangs typically have insider(s) in the shipping company (route driver) or forwarding address with fake ID and pobox.
Some even lease out an executive suite month to month and hit hundreds of CC at once. They are gone within a week or so.
No it's not worth it.
That's old school. Credit card gangs typically have insider(s) in the shipping company (route driver) or forwarding address with fake ID and pobox.
Some even lease out an executive suite month to month and hit hundreds of CC at once. They are gone within a week or so.
No it's not worth it.
Could be but it would be worth 10 min for me to find out. Hell, it was worth 10 min for me to read this thread. :)
Great-Kazoo
11-16-2013, 22:48
Could be but it would be worth 10 min for me to find out. Hell, it was worth 10 min for me to read this thread. :)
Now post a reply in the COSTCO thread. that will kill the rest of your weekend;)
Nice blue STI in the driveway. Sure would be a shame if $500 worth of damage happened to it.
Too bad there isn't a service that could deliver remote justice. Oh, is that a crime? Well I guess he could down to the PD half a mile away and report it.
(I hate thieves, if you couldn't tell)
I hope it works out for you OP. You should be protected through your CC company/bank.
wrong house, look across the street. they have the mini-van and the flat bed on the pickup truck.
Move on with your life. Let the CC company deal with it. They're the ones with the loss.
KestrelBike
11-17-2013, 01:47
One of my favorite characters in the movie Dogma was Loki, who in the movie used to be the Angel of Death. There was this one scene where he basically wastes an entire office full of executives because of all the shady, evil things they do in their lives.
I wish there was a Loki that just went around slaying thieves with extreme prejudice.
Mick-Boy
11-17-2013, 02:40
A couple of years ago I paid a guy for an Aimpoint T1. He never sent the sight. Because I was overseas when we did the deal I missed PPs window to file a claim.
I had his name, address and email traffic from the seller admitting that he'd been paid but had never sent the item. I went through the same channels. Called the PD local to him and was told to talk to my local PD. Talked to CSPD and was told to file a report through a .gov fraud website. Filed the report. Never heard back.
In the end it would have been more worthwhile (or at least satisfying) for me to fly out and take $500 out of his hide Jay and Silent Bob style.
I was an eBay power seller before there was even such a title. In the late 90's I was involved in a fraudulent check scam by some douche in Texas who was buying HIGH ticket item off of eBay w/COD being the method of shipping and then he was paying with checks he printed on his printer. Not even an attempt to make them decent either mind you. UPS says their drive isn't a teller and can't tell. Man, you should have seen this thing. lol Any 4th grader could know it wasn't legit. It took about 2 weeks for them to process your check and get it mailed back to you so that guy managed to rack up nearly six figures worth of items shipped to a house he was seemingly squatting in. I went through a LOT of the same BS you mention about being sent back and forth because local law agencies don't know how to handle it. The bottom line is you need to get the feds involved since it's across state lines. In my case I was out like $600 and I still just chalked it up to education fees and never took COD again. Since your credit card company reimbursed you I say let it go. You're really out nothing but time at this point, have nothing to gain other than more lost time and in the end what will it net you? Nothing but someone doing soft time with you on their mind and will likely get released early due to overcrowding. Who knows, maybe they want to plan a trip to Colorado? You'd have to deal with the FBI and all sorts of fun adult things like that. My advice is just to leave it man. Go on with life and thank god you're not out anything.
I once got a call from my credit card about a second card that I had supposedly opened. I said that wasn't me, and asked where they were shipped. It was to an address about 2 blocks away from my place. I thought about going over there and having words, but instead just scoped it out.
Great-Kazoo
11-17-2013, 18:38
I was an eBay power seller before there was even such a title. In the late 90's I was involved in a fraudulent check scam by some douche in Texas who was buying HIGH ticket item off of eBay w/COD being the method of shipping and then he was paying with checks he printed on his printer. Not even an attempt to make them decent either mind you. UPS says their drive isn't a teller and can't tell. Man, you should have seen this thing. lol Any 4th grader could know it wasn't legit. It took about 2 weeks for them to process your check and get it mailed back to you so that guy managed to rack up nearly six figures worth of items shipped to a house he was seemingly squatting in. I went through a LOT of the same BS you mention about being sent back and forth because local law agencies don't know how to handle it. The bottom line is you need to get the feds involved since it's across state lines. In my case I was out like $600 and I still just chalked it up to education fees and never took COD again. Since your credit card company reimbursed you I say let it go. You're really out nothing but time at this point, have nothing to gain other than more lost time and in the end what will it net you? Nothing but someone doing soft time with you on their mind and will likely get released early due to overcrowding. Who knows, maybe they want to plan a trip to Colorado? You'd have to deal with the FBI and all sorts of fun adult things like that. My advice is just to leave it man. Go on with life and thank god you're not out anything.
When you deal with the feds, unless the Attorney general or Assistant AG wants to pursue it GFL.
When you deal with the feds, unless the Attorney general or Assistant AG wants to pursue it GFL.
Exactly.
james_bond_007
11-17-2013, 19:03
Tis likely it is not even the people at that address but someone nearby. Pick a house you know everyone is gone all day and snag the box before they get home.
You know too much...
...seems like you may have "done this before"?[Dunno]
(I hope you know I'm just kidding ...)
james_bond_007
11-17-2013, 19:17
Sniper7:
I'll bet your feelings are the similar to those FFLs that have to tell the buyer "I'm sorry I can't sell you a firearm. Didn't you know you were a previously convicted felon? "
And then also have no one interested in pursuing criminal charges against the "buyer"...
Sniper. If this happens and you get a Colorado address. Let us know at that time.
A couple years ago we had a credit card and some cash stolen out of our house. As it was a card we didn't use often, we didn't notice right away until I sat down with my wife to ask her why she was spending so much. Called the credit card company, who was happy to simply write off the charges - I could have ignored it at that point. But we also called the local police (who came out and gave my wife a hard time about keeping cash and a credit card unsecured in a drawer - he was correct, but it wasn't exactly the helpful neighborhood cop scenario, LOL). They asked for names of people who had been in the house. I'm not sure how far it would have gone after that if I didn't get involved personally.
I was really really angry that it may have been someone we knew (turned out it was), so I called all the local stores asking for video (they did not give to me, but when I forwarded the info to the detective, he did follow up and receive some of it). I also went to the trouble to use google maps to create a map of every transaction, and cross referenced that against the home addresses of everyone who had been in our house. It was very telling.
Long story short - after a lengthy process that was messy due to who it was, the person was arrested, and plead out to a deal that included paying us back all the cash that was stolen as well as reimbursing the credit card company/merchants (not sure which) for all the charges.
Felt very good. If it weren't for the fact it was ultimately resolved, I would still be bothered by it today.
Now my wife locks up her spare cash and cards - or at least she's supposed to. :)
brianakell
11-18-2013, 17:25
Awesome!
I believe the merchant eats it not the CC company. Pursue as much as possible, and merchants everywhere thank you.
CC companies dont lose money, they pass it on. For instance, if you have a CC terminal that someone hacks, and steals card numbers from, the merchant is liable, not the CC processor. And any disputes, even after merchant's death, their kids are liable for. Yes it reads that in some merchant agreements.
Sorry, like everyone said, won't nobody do shit about it. And if you knew EXACTLY who did it and you got justice yourself, guess who'd go to jail? Remember all this when you hear politicians preaching about how much they care about identity theft and how they're going to crack down on it. Fuck the fucking fucks. Thieving bastards.
I wouldn't go after them personally. I have too much to lose. Now if they took everything from me...then I might sing a different tune.
Ive been at work the last couple days but i think I'll at least call the sheriff there and see wha they say. If they tell me to call the local police I might feel them out especially since I have the address it was shipped to.
pore than likely I'll end up getting nowhere and wasting a little bit of time, but at least I tried to get some justice.
Great-Kazoo
11-18-2013, 23:29
Awesome!
I believe the merchant eats it not the CC company. Pursue as much as possible, and merchants everywhere thank you.
CC companies dont lose money, they pass it on. For instance, if you have a CC terminal that someone hacks, and steals card numbers from, the merchant is liable, not the CC processor. And any disputes, even after merchant's death, their kids are liable for. Yes it reads that in some merchant agreements.
CC compamy eats is, acceptable loss. Not the merchant. IF business got stuck for it, they'd no longer accept CC's.
CC compamy eats is, acceptable loss. Not the merchant. IF business got stuck for it, they'd no longer accept CC's.
As a business with a merchant account I can tell you the merchant will eat it as a charge back. As soon as you notify your credit card company there is an issue with the charge they immediately seize the funds from the merchants account and then hold them until they determine the outcome. Once they verify the charge is fraudulent they will keep the money and the merchant is the one that is out. It is the risk a merchant takes accepting credit cards but in the current business environment it is very difficult to do business and not accept credit cards.
Great-Kazoo
11-19-2013, 08:50
As a business with a merchant account I can tell you the merchant will eat it as a charge back. As soon as you notify your credit card company there is an issue with the charge they immediately seize the funds from the merchants account and then hold them until they determine the outcome. Once they verify the charge is fraudulent they will keep the money and the merchant is the one that is out. It is the risk a merchant takes accepting credit cards but in the current business environment it is very difficult to do business and not accept credit cards.
Our CC / card reader account covered our losses. Checks were the problem, at the time. Now most of NoCo (Ft, Collins, Windsor, Greeality) do not accept checks in a majority of business. Wonder what will replace the CC, with the rampant fraud & theft issues.
This is a reason why I NEVER use my pin number at the point of sale. Use the Visa/Mastercard part of the debit card. If someone uses your PIN number with a skimmed card for nefarious reasons you won't get that money back.
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