DEA hit 5 grow operations in Denver yesterday

[strm_trpr]

So, I observed one of the 5 DEA raids on grow houses yesterday. They were loading dump trucks full of plants to be destroyed. Looks like the FED does not care about our state laws...


I wasn't really too sad because one was by my work and the smell of the grow operation is horrendous and I am not a fan of Weed but so much for nullification.

[Colorado_Outback]

The question is, were they operating within the state laws?

[brokenscout]

Its a plant, its all about control.

[CO Hugh]

Suckers, this is from the guy who said if you like your doctor you can keep it. So you can smoke dope if you want, nope.

I have always believed the feds nonenforcement was a ploy to wait until the business was big enough to take down and confiscate all of the owner's property under civil forfeiture.

The drug industry needs to pay off the government, via high priced lobbyists etc then their won't be any raids.

[wctriumph]

However you feel about it, write your congressman and let him/her know how you feel.

[roberth]

I hope the DEA hits them all, maybe somebody will wake up and understand that federal laws and the federal government should be VERY limited.

[speedysst]

I think it would be wise to learn the actual reasons for the raids before demonizing the DEA.

[brokenscout]

The "War on Drugs" should end

[rbeau30]

I hope the DEA hits them all, maybe somebody will wake up and understand that federal laws and the federal government should be VERY limited.

Even though I don't agree with drug use, there really shouldn't be any laws other than the ones defining consequences to someone else infringing upon my basic rights. What someone wants to do to themselves is nobody's and no government's business.

[Gman]

Spoken like a true libertarian.

The "War on Big Government" should not end.

[Colorado_Outback]

I think it would be wise to learn the actual reasons for the raids before demonizing the DEA.

Why would you do that when you can just generalize and jump to conclusions? haha

[colorider]

For whatever reasons they were raided, people seem to forget one simple fact. Marijuana is illegal on the federal level. State law means shit to the Feds. The Feds can raid, close down, arrest the pot shops and growers any time they please. As far as obummers " statements" about leaving the industry alone,,, that is just bullshit and hot air until an actual law on the fed level is passed.

[sniper7]

hopefully with these types of things happening to the pot people, they might just come around to see that less government is a good thing. you stay out of my business, I'll stay out of yours type of thing.

[Ah Pook]

One of the dispensaries was raided, up here. My understanding is that only facilities that were not in compliance were raided.

[Great-Kazoo]

One of the dispensaries was raided, up here. My understanding is that only facilities that were not in compliance were raided.

Today, what happens Tomorrow?

[waxthis]

For whatever reasons they were raided, people seem to forget one simple fact. Marijuana is illegal on the federal level. State law means shit to the Feds. The Feds can raid, close down, arrest the pot shops and growers any time they please. As far as obummers " statements" about leaving the industry alone,,, that is just bullshit and hot air until an actual law on the fed level is passed.

Exactly.....Why the hell would any group spend a shit load of $$$$$ and time to pass a state law that they know violates a major federal law, and expect it to work. The whole thing is a joke and will be nothing but problems for owners, growers users, etc...

[Irving]

Because it sets a precendent for the future. We heard an article the other day how they stopped training police dogs to sniff out pot. That is either very short sighted, or prophetically long sighted.

[lowbeyond]

law is the law !

now go drink out of the other fountain.

ETA: I suppose at least some of you are against things like the MT firearms freedom act as well.

[jerrymrc]

Why would you do that when you can just generalize and jump to conclusions? haha

I see this thread turning into another CF. [facepalm]

[twitchyfinger]

Just said on the news the raid was on Columbian cartels that have moved here to get a stake in the "legal" side of the business and funnel the money back to Columbia.

[Dave_L]

Just said on the news the raid was on Columbian cartels that have moved here to get a stake in the "legal" side of the business and funnel the money back to Columbia.

This is my shocked face.....wait for it....any moment...

[BushMasterBoy]

Oh FFS stupid people smoking pot could burn down the Black Forest and then where would Obama be?

[Ronin13]

It would seem to me like there is an awful lot of conjecture on here without knowing a whole lot of facts behind all this. First off, no, I don't know all the facts, but in what has been released to the public in regard to what the DEA, DOR (State, not federal), DPD and other local LE agencies around the effected areas where these raids took place- it has less to do with the conflict between Federal Drug Policy and A-64/MMJ, and more to do with these businesses were in some way or form in violation of regulatory measures (ie illegal sales, underage sales, etc) or other state statutes. New drug laws have been put in place as of 7/1/13 and something tells me that this is the first enforcement of such statutes. It wouldn't surprise me if more details are released later. It also wouldn't surprise me if there are more of these raids coming in the near future, cracking down on those doing business outside the limits of what the laws (more to come) state.

[def90]

Because it sets a precendent for the future. We heard an article the other day how they stopped training police dogs to sniff out pot. That is either very short sighted, or prophetically long sighted.

Police dogs only have success rate of about 20% in detecting anything anyway. Their success rate is extremely exagerated much like polygraph tests and in many locations not admisable in court. Most hits by police dogs are planted hits where the dog knows it is supposed to alert based on a cue by the handler.

sent from a soup can and some string..

[Ronin13]

Police dogs only have success rate of about 20% in detecting anything anyway. Their success rate is extremely exagerated much like polygraph tests and in many locations not admisable in court. Most hits by police dogs are planted hits where the dog knows it is supposed to alert based on a cue by the handler.

sent from a soup can and some string..
I'm not 100% sure on that, but it would seem that kind of accusation is an attack on K-9 Officers' integrity and professionalism... which I would see more as rare- the vast majority of police are honest and have the integrity to not make up evidence. I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say "most" alerts by drug-sniffing K9s are planted based on cues by the handler. That's like saying "most vehicle searches are preformed on false pretenses by dishonest cops" which is simply not true. As far as evidence obtained by drug dogs- the SCOTUS ruled it's admissible in court- Florida V. Harris where "Justice Elena Kagan stated that the dog's certification and continued training are adequate indication of his reliability, and thus is sufficient to presume the dog's alert provides probable cause to search, using the "totality-of-the-circumstances" test per Illinois v. Gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_v._Gates)." A decision made Feb 19, 2013.

[Colorado_Outback]

Oh FFS stupid people smoking pot could burn down the Black Forest and then where would Obama be?

I think your the one who needs to stop hitting the bong so hard, WTF are you talking about?

[jerrymrc]

I think your the one who needs to stop hitting the bong so hard, WTF are you talking about?

It is friday night.[LOL]

[BushMasterBoy]

Its a joke and you are taking my posts way too seriously!

[skullybones]

Its a joke and you are taking my posts way too seriously!

Pretty shitty joke when taken in context of your ridiculous posting in the Black Forest thread. You drunk dude?

[BushMasterBoy]

Just use the ignore function, it works really good!

[jhood001]

So what flavor exactly is the Kool-Aid, Ronin? I don't blame your for chugging it or anything. I just hope it is tasty!

[cofi]

So what flavor exactly is the Kool-Aid, Ronin? I don't blame your for chugging it or anything. I just hope it is tasty!
Ronin has been Robocop since he joined the academy :)

[BPTactical]

So what flavor exactly is the Kool-Aid, Ronin? I don't blame your for chugging it or anything. I just hope it is tasty!

And I feel so warm and fuzzy about Kagans statement/ruling.
A dog can be taught to alert on something even though nothing is there with nothing more than a subtle gesture on its handlers part, such as a simple hand movement.

I don't see this "Industry" surviving with the polar opposites of state vs federal law.
And on the subject of Obutthole's DOJ statement regarding it, Riiight!
Everything this admenstruation says is contrare.
The performance of them proves it, regardless of the subject.

[Colorado_Outback]

Just use the ignore function, it works really good!

Don't act like a douche, it also works really good. ;)

[sniper7]

I hope they lose everything. My wishes from the L&P thread coming true!

[Ronin13]

So what flavor exactly is the Kool-Aid, Ronin? I don't blame your for chugging it or anything. I just hope it is tasty!
Classic ad-hominem defensive tactic when faced with a fact-based opinion contrary to your own diluted opinion... nice.

Ronin has been Robocop since he joined the academy :)
No, just have a different perspective on things... and a bit more education on matters of law enforcement.

[lowbeyond]

I'm not 100% sure on that, but it would seem that kind of accusation is an attack on K-9 Officers' integrity and professionalism... which I would see more as rare- the vast majority of police are honest and have the integrity to not make up evidence. I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say "most" alerts by drug-sniffing K9s are planted based on cues by the handler. That's like saying "most vehicle searches are preformed on false pretenses by dishonest cops" which is simply not true. As far as evidence obtained by drug dogs- the SCOTUS ruled it's admissible in court- Florida V. Harris where "Justice Elena Kagan stated that the dog's certification and continued training are adequate indication of his reliability, and thus is sufficient to presume the dog's alert provides probable cause to search, using the "totality-of-the-circumstances" test per Illinois v. Gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_v._Gates)." A decision made Feb 19, 2013.

Well you could say that. But you are wrong.

Also Harris was bullshit. Basically the logics is.. The State certify a dog. That is all that is needed. In practive the dog cold have a 25% or less success rate, but so what, the certificate matters - thats it. Thus the State has satisfied the burden itself by giving itself a piece of paper. Sure ! uh-huh

Cliff notes for the below..

A dog performs flawless in re-ecertification, but in the real world has a 25% success rate. Great Dog according to SCOTUS, hey he has that State Approved Certificate. w00t w00t !

2007-2009 Study of suberban polices deapartments. Overall Success rate 44%. That's not even a coin flip. Oh and when the people were Hispanic? 27% success rate. Well now that is interesting.

Double Blind Study in a Church. Sausages placed to distract the dogs. Red papers placed around the room, cops told they were places of intrest. But in reality no dugs/bombs whatever found. Overall 21/144, a 14.5 % sucess rate. Go doggies!

Not the handler? Oh please. Its bullshit.

If drug dogs where acutal drugs, they would never get approved, as they are not even as good as a placebo.

If the State wishes to enforce law X, can they at least stop the lying and use something to further that goal with actual value? I guess Not. Just give everyone a blue showing up ribbon, and all is good.

SCOTUS is apparently full of 3rd grade soccer players


http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/02/police-dog-named-bono-plays-by-own-rules



Police Dog Named "Bono" Plays By Own Rules, Plants Drug Evidence at Virtually Every Crime Scene (http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/02/police-dog-named-bono-plays-by-own-rules) Nick Gillespie (http://reason.com/people/nick-gillespie/all)|Jul. 2, 2012 10:14 am
The Virginia State Police has at least one very dirty cop: a K-9 pooch named "Bono" that has an uncanny ability to detect illegal drugs. Especially when there aren't any present.

The four-legged crime fighter working for the Virginia State Police has been on a hot streak, detecting drugs nearly every time he’s on the job. In reality, however, illegal narcotics were found just 22 times of the 85 ‘alerts’ by the dog.

That was the argument public defender Randy Cargill representing Herbert Green, 45, tried to use to suppress the 1.5 kilogram of cocaine found in his client’s SUV with Bono’s help, the Roanoke Times (http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/310870) reported....

Cargill argued that Bono’s track record was so poor that police lacked probable cause to search Green’s SUV in the first place.

Oh, Cargill, you poor bastard. You probably thought that expert testimony had to be, you know, expert or something. What happened next:


Bono ‘may not be a model of canine accuracy,’ [federal Judge Glen] Conrad wrote in an opinion filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Roanoke.

However, the judge ruled that other factors, including the dog's training and flawless performance during re-certification sessions, were enough to overcome a challenge raised by Green's attorney.

And there's this:


[A prosecutor] explained that in some cases where nothing was found after an alert by Bono, police later determined that cocaine or marijuana had been in the vehicle hours earlier, leaving a scent the dog was trained to detect.

Bono’s handler Trooper Brian Dillon testified that variables such as wind and the possibility of well-stashed drugs in a car would affect the numbers cited by the defense.

‘It's just a big game of hide-and-seek with the canine,’ Dillon said.
Read more (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167170/Bad-dog-Anger-police-pooch-named-Bono-ALWAYS-says-drugs-car.html#ixzz1zTP8rjFz).
Don't you see? It's just a game. A big freaking game.
Back in 2011, Radley Balko (then at Reason, now at Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/)) wrote about the incredibly shakey record that police dogs have in turning up drugs. Or, more precisely, how independent and rigorous studies show that - duh - police dogs follow cues from their oh-so-human handlers and, as a result, generate an enormous amount of false positives, especially when dealing with black and hispanic suspects.


Read this: (http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/21/the-mind-of-a-police-dog/singlepage)


A recent Chicago Tribune survey (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog) of traffic stops by suburban police departments from 2007 to 2009, for example, found that searches turned up contraband in just 44 percent of the cases where police dogs alerted to the presence of narcotics. (An alert is a signal, such as barking or sitting, that dogs are trained to display when they detect the target scent.) In stops involving Hispanic drivers, the dogs' success rate was just 27 percent. The two largest departments the Tribune surveyed—the Chicago Police Department and the Illinois State Police—said they don't even keep track of such information.

Summarizing a study done by University of California-Davis researchers, Balko noted:


Dog/handler teams correctly completed a search with no alerts in just 21 of the 144 walk-throughs. The other 123 searches produced an astounding 225 alerts, every one of them false. Even more interesting, the search points designed to trick the handlers (marked by the red slips of paper) were about twice as likely to trigger false alerts as the search points designed to trick the dogs (by luring them with sausages)....

And more:


In 2006 University of North Carolina law professor Richard Myers conducted a statistical analysis (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Flaw.bepress.com%2Fcgi%2Fviewconte nt.cgi%3Farticle%3D5818%26context%3Dexpresso&rct=j&q=%22Richard%20Myers%22%20dog%20study%20scent%20no rth%20carolina&ei=sTFhTZaEO4O3twe24MjqCw&usg=AFQjCNGqh4McGRZoG_Feh8b_vsI2FBEoHQ&sig2=xxMSs_fqFp_3coQN3YWtTg&cad=rja)(PDF) of police dog accuracy tests and concluded that the animals were not reliable enough to produce probable cause for a search, let alone serve as the cornerstone of a conviction. At least five states have banned or restricted (http://www.johntfloyd.com/blog/2010/10/06/dog-witnesses-kicked-out-of-the-courtroom/) the use of scent lineups in criminal cases, but they are still frequently used in courtrooms across the country.

Man's best friend? Hardly. The MAN's best friend? Definitely.



And here is the write up of probably the most definitive study on drug dogs conducted.

Cliff Notes: Its a game. The handlers aka cops give cue to the dogs to make them alert. No one cold see that coming - except everyone.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2011/02/animal_behaviour


Clever hounds
Feb 15th 2011, 9:05 by M.K.

IN THE early 20th century, a horse named Clever Hans was believed capable of counting and other impressive mental tasks. After years of great performance, psychologists put the ruse to rest by demonstrating that though Hans was certainly clever, he was not clever in the way that everyone expected. The horse was cunningly picking up on tiny, unintentional bodily and facial cues given out not only by his trainer, but also by the audience. Aware of the “Clever Hans” effect, Lisa Lit at the University of California, Davis, and her colleagues, wondered whether the beliefs of professional dog handlers might similarly affect the outcomes of searches for drugs and explosives. Remarkably, Dr Lit found, they do.
Dr Lit asked 18 professional dog handlers and their mutts to complete two sets of four brief searches. Thirteen of those who participated worked in drug detection, three in explosives detection, and two worked in both. The dogs had been trained to use one of two signals to indicate to their handlers that they had detected something. Some would bark, others would sit.

The experimental searches took places in the rooms of a church, and each team of dog and human had five minutes allocated to each of the eight searches. Before the searches, the handlers were informed that some of the search areas might contain up to three target scents, and also that in two cases those scents would be marked by pieces of red paper.

What the handlers were not told was that two of the targets contained decoy scents, in the form of unwrapped, hidden sausages, to encourage the dogs' interest in a false location. Moreover, none of the search areas contained the scents of either drugs or explosives. Any “detections” made by the teams thus had to be false. Recorders, who were blind to the study, noted where handlers indicated that their dogs had raised alerts.

The findings, which Dr Lit reports in Animal Cognition, reveal that of 144 searches, only 21 were clean (no alerts). All the others raised one alert or more. In total, the teams raised 225 alerts, all of them false. While the sheer number of false alerts struck Dr Lit as fascinating, it was where they took place that was of greatest interest.

When handlers could see a red piece of paper, allegedly marking a location of interest, they were much more likely to say that their dogs signalled an alert. Indeed, in the two rooms where red paper was present and sausages were not, 32 of a possible 36 alerts were raised. In the two where both red paper and sausages were present that figure was 30–not significantly different. In contrast, in search areas where a sausage was hidden but no red piece of paper was there for handlers to see, it was only 17.

The dogs, in other words, were distracted only about half the time by the stimulus aimed at them. The human handlers were not only distracted on almost every occasion by the stimulus aimed at them, but also transmitted that distraction to their animals–who responded accordingly. To mix metaphors, the dogs were crying “wolf” at the unconscious behest of their handlers.

How much that matters in the real world is unclear. But it might. If a handler, for example, unconsciously “profiled” people being sniffed by a drug- or explosive-detecting dog at an airport, false positives could abound. That is not only bad for innocent travellers, but might distract the team from catching the guilty. Handlers' expectations may be stopping sniffer dogs doing their jobs properly.

[lowbeyond]

Classic ad-hominem defensive tactic when faced with a fact-based opinion contrary to your own diluted opinion... nice.

No, just have a different perspective on things... and a bit more education on matters of law enforcement.


wait you complain about an ad hominem, then in the next sentence you bust out an appeal to authority, namely - yourself!

[ZERO THEORY]

I told people over and over again that Colorado is gonna be hit with the same federal crackdown that CA was when they passed medical marijuana laws. And time and time again, I kept hearing the same 'Naw, dude...it's legal now' arguments. When I explained that federal law supercedes state law, and that buying a gun is a felony, medical card or not, I was met with equal waves of denial, confusion, and oh-shit-I-fucked-up. If Joe Schmo really thinks Barry O's jackboots are going to let people just smoke pot willy nilly, he's in for a rude awakening.

[Irving]

My neighbor informed me the other day that if you have a medical marijuana card and buy a box of ammo at Wal-mart, each round is a felony. Of course he heard that from the FBI guy that was running a concealed carry course out at the range at which he is a member.

[Ronin13]

wait you complain about an ad hominem, then in the next sentence you bust out an appeal to authority, namely - yourself!
No, you read that wrong- that was in response to cofi's remark, and referring to myself on the education matter- I have more education on matters of law enforcement than I did 6 months ago, I can't assume how much education cofi has on the subject- I was inferring my own level having increased.

[trlcavscout]

I am surprised the feds don't legalize it and give it away free to try to mellow us out while they bend us over.

[Ah Pook]

I am surprised the feds don't legalize it and give it away free to try to mellow us out while they bend us over.
Too much money to be made fighting it.

[merl]

Too much money to be made fighting it.

Got to be more than the money, lots of money to be made on the legal side as well (though not directly by the police forces). I think alot of it is about the control you get by having a drug war. Another excuse for warrants, another excuse to dig into the private lives of your citizens.

[Irving]

Got to be more than the money, lots of money to be made on the legal side as well (though not directly by the police forces). I think alot of it is about the control you get by having a drug war. Another excuse for warrants, another excuse to dig into the private lives of your citizens.

I agree. I think it is more about restricting wealth than it is about digging into lives. Similar to death taxes that prevent property from being passed down among generations. What good is a population that owns land and has money? What need of the the government does a population like that have?

[PugnacAutMortem]

I'm not 100% sure on that, but it would seem that kind of accusation is an attack on K-9 Officers' integrity and professionalism... which I would see more as rare- the vast majority of police are honest and have the integrity to not make up evidence. I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say "most" alerts by drug-sniffing K9s are planted based on cues by the handler. That's like saying "most vehicle searches are preformed on false pretenses by dishonest cops" which is simply not true. As far as evidence obtained by drug dogs- the SCOTUS ruled it's admissible in court- Florida V. Harris where "Justice Elena Kagan stated that the dog's certification and continued training are adequate indication of his reliability, and thus is sufficient to presume the dog's alert provides probable cause to search, using the "totality-of-the-circumstances" test per Illinois v. Gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_v._Gates)." A decision made Feb 19, 2013.

I will say this Ronin, I have a personal belief that someone whose livelihood depends on a certain industry, whatever that industry is, really shouldn't be an outspoken supporter of a controversial topic that has to do with that industry. For example, I work in the oil and gas industry. My livelihood is made because people come by my products, and then use them for fracking 99/100. I really try and stay away from talking to people about fracking, because I feel like even though I have more knowledge than the average person on the subject, I'm getting paid enough to support my family because of fracking. Where does my knowledge of fracking come from? The industry professionals who I speak with on a daily basis. What is their livelihood as well?

If you are pulling a paycheck from some company/org that has some controversial element to it, it just comes across being a lobbyist if you are outspoken about it. Now does that mean that the industry knowledge that I have about fracking or the industry knowledge you have about law enforcement is incorrect? Not at all, but if you are in the industry I just dont think that you can be the voice or reason to soothe some people's worries or concerns.

Again, my own personal opinion, but in discussions like this I have found it to my advantage to sit on the sidelines until the end (or until someone asks for your opinion).

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Everyone needs to shut the hell up and let the law enforcement expert speak....

Go ahead, Ronin, continue......

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[BushMasterBoy]

Don't act like a douche, it also works really good. ;)

I refuse to match wits with the unarmed...

[stoner01]

Police dogs only have success rate of about 20% in detecting anything anyway. Their success rate is extremely exagerated much like polygraph tests and in many locations not admisable in court. Most hits by police dogs are planted hits where the dog knows it is supposed to alert based on a cue by the handler.

sent from a soup can and some string..

I'm gonna have to throw the BS card down on this. And Ronin is right on with his post.

* Disclaimer: My experience as a narc do handler is strictly .Mil so I have only a little experience with civilians.

[stoner01]

And I feel so warm and fuzzy about Kagans statement/ruling.
A dog can be taught to alert on something even though nothing is there with nothing more than a subtle gesture on its handlers part, such as a simple hand movement.

I don't see this "Industry" surviving with the polar opposites of state vs federal law.
And on the subject of Obutthole's DOJ statement regarding it, Riiight!
Everything this admenstruation says is contrare.
The performance of them proves it, regardless of the subject.
Very I love you to Death man but not all drug dog handlers are out to get everyone. You all need to realize that my dog could detect a roach if you had just smoked it. Some dogs just are that good.

[BPTactical]

You all need to realize that my dog could detect a roach if you had just smoked it.

Why would someone smoke an insect? That's just gross.

[Irving]

You all need to realize that my dog could detect a roach if you had just smoked it. Some dogs just are that good.

Hell, I can detect that.

[blacklabel]

Everyone needs to shut the hell up and let the law enforcement expert speak....

Go ahead, Ronin, continue......

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

I laughed out loud.

[Irving]

Doesn't matter how good the dogs are, as long as the evidence is backed up by the experts back at the lab right?

Oh wait...http://badchemistry.wbur.org/2013/11/22/dookhan-plea-prison

[lowbeyond]

No, you read that wrong- that was in response to cofi's remark, and referring to myself on the education matter- I have more education on matters of law enforcement than I did 6 months ago, I can't assume how much education cofi has on the subject- I was inferring my own level having increased.

Ah I see. My apologies

[stoner01]

Why would someone smoke an insect? That's just gross.

Dem youts do strange things

[twitchyfinger]

Dem youts do strange things

Yeah no shit! Like sniffing cat piss it's called cheezing. Teenage son of a girl I dated told me about it. WTF!?!?

[Irving]

Yeah no shit! Like sniffing cat piss it's called cheezing. Teenage son of a girl I dated told me about it. WTF!?!?

There is a Southpark episode about it, but I thought it was just something they made up. In fact, it's the Heavy Metal episode of South Park.

[twitchyfinger]

Yeah I've seen that and I think that's where the idea originated from but from trying to find out the truth regarding it I get mixed info. I kind of thought he was jerking my chain but can't seem to find any definite info regarding it. Wouldn't suprise me though if kids did do that but I agree think its a spoof! Stoner01's dem youts comment reminded me of it.

[lowbeyond]

I'm gonna have to throw the BS card down on this. And Ronin is right on with his post.

* Disclaimer: My experience as a narc do handler is strictly .Mil so I have only a little experience with civilians.

Yea you are right it is BS. Its not 20%, its 14.5%

[hatidua]

I will say this Ronin, I have a personal belief that someone whose livelihood depends on a certain industry, whatever that industry is, really shouldn't be an outspoken supporter of a controversial topic that has to do with that industry. For example, I work in the oil and gas industry. My livelihood is made because people come by my products, and then use them for fracking 99/100. I really try and stay away from talking to people about fracking, because I feel like even though I have more knowledge than the average person on the subject, I'm getting paid enough to support my family because of fracking. Where does my knowledge of fracking come from? The industry professionals who I speak with on a daily basis. What is their livelihood as well?

If you are pulling a paycheck from some company/org that has some controversial element to it, it just comes across being a lobbyist if you are outspoken about it. Now does that mean that the industry knowledge that I have about fracking or the industry knowledge you have about law enforcement is incorrect? Not at all, but if you are in the industry I just dont think that you can be the voice or reason to soothe some people's worries or concerns.

Again, my own personal opinion, but in discussions like this I have found it to my advantage to sit on the sidelines until the end (or until someone asks for your opinion).

Alas, that demonstrates a thought process and level of maturity not possessed by all.

[stoner01]

Yea you are right it is BS. Its not 20%, its 14.5%

I love to see a reliable data source for that.

[lowbeyond]

its in the study results i posted in this thread

eta: there is aslo a link the a statistical study on drug dogs.

and you know what i find funny. everyone knows police qually with guns are a joke. all that really tests is that the person can hit the side of a barn at 7 meters or so. but with drug doggies, its like STFU the State gave the dog a piece of paper, so its ALL GOOD !

Why is that? hmmmmmmmm.............

[lowbeyond]

Here i'll make it easy

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/2010-2011/02/20110223_drug_dogs.html

pdf
http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs10071-010-0373-2.pdf

[Great-Kazoo]

The interesting part of the whole DEA "Confiscation" based on "ALLEGDED" ties to Cartels is. NOT ONE ARREST. Lots of product, money equipment but no arrest. Anyone else find the similarities of ARSENAL CONFISCATED headlines interesting?

IF this was a valid "Joint Raid by the DEA and local Authorities" would you not expect arrest made. Or is this a way to SEND a MESSAGE. to CO pot vendors?

[sniper7]

If dogs can smell so good why do they have to get their noses right into another dogs ass or in your crotch to smell you out?

[lowbeyond]

http://www.denverpost.com/marijuana/ci_24597512/colombian-arrested-feds-marijuana-raids-that-seized-guns


Colombian arrested in feds' marijuana raids that seized guns, ammo in Colorado

Federal authorities seized five assault-style rifles, five handguns, a shotgun and a "large cache of ammunition" during a search last week of a home in connection with a major raid on medical-marijuana businesses in the Denver metro area, according to a court document unsealed Monday.

In the document, federal investigators also disclose for the first time that last week's raids targeted about 15 locations. During the raids, authorities arrested 49-year-old Hector Diaz, a Colombian national, according to the document. Diaz was charged Friday with being in possession of a firearm after having been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.

The new details about the raids come from the criminal complaint filed against Diaz.

An affidavit filed in support of the complaint notes that federal agents seized a loaded gun from an occupant during the raid on the swanky Cherry Hills Village home where Diaz was arrested.

According to the complaint, investigators had obtained a photo of Diaz holding two semi-automatic rifles while wearing a Drug Enforcement Administration ballcap. Investigators believe the photo was taken inside the swanky Cherry Hills Village home where Diaz was arrested Thursday. The home — which a SWAT team descended upon Thursday — was among several places authorities raided. The raids were largely connected to VIP Wellness, a medical-marijuana dispensary.

Sources have told The Denver Post that investigators are looking into possible links between the dispensary and Colombian drug cartels.

According to the complaint filed in Diaz's cases, most of the weapons that authorities seized at the Cherry Hills Village home were loaded. Investigators also found "thousands of rounds of assorted ammunition," according to the complaint.

John Ingold: 303-954-1068, jingold@denverpost.com or twitter.com/john_ingold

OMG ! Loaded guns !! OMG ! thousands of rounds of ammo!

Here is a link to the complaint
http://www.scribd.com/doc/187057217/Hector-Diaz-Complaint-Affidavit

here is what he is charged with.


Your affiant submits that this affidavit sets forth probable cause to believe that the defendant, Hector DIAZ, has violated Title 18, United States Code, Section 922(g)(5)(B):Possession of a Firearm,to wit:a Smith and Wesson M&P-15, 5.56mm semi-automatic rifle bearing serial number SP 52534,by an Alien who is present in the United States under a non-immigrant visa(as defined in the Immigration and Nationality Act, Title 8, United States Code, Section 1101(a)(26)).
.
.
.
On November 22, 2013, your affiant consulted with agents at the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). You affiant verified that the Smith and Wesson M&P-15, 5.56mm semi-automatic rifle bearing serial number SP 52534is a “firearm” which was manufactured outside the state of Colorado, and therefore traveled in and affected interstate or foreign commerce.Based on the information identified above, your affiant submits that there is probable cause to believe that Hector DIAZ,a/k/a Hector Diaz-Martinez, a/k/a Hector Josue Diaz-Martinez,a/k/a Hector J. Diaz-Martinez,did illegally possess a firearm on or about February 7, 2013, in violation ofU.S.C. §§ 922 (g)(5)(B)

In other words he is "guilty" of taking a picture with a gun made in a state other than Colorado.

Congratu-fukking-lations DEA, SWAT Local PD !

True heroes. No Doubt About it.

All that is left is the medal pinning ceremony

Oh FFS

[kidicarus13]

...is a “firearm” which was manufactured outside the state of Colorado, and therefore traveled in and affected interstate or foreign commerce.

I don't even know what that means ???

[Great-Kazoo]

...is a “firearm” which was manufactured outside the state of Colorado, and therefore traveled in and affected interstate or foreign commerce.

I don't even know what that means ???

An item NOT made in CO was used in pictures by a person illegally in the US . Violating ICC statures

[lowbeyond]

so far this story sounds like

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html

All because of this on facebook




Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle
by Todd Starnes

New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.

“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore. “It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”

Moore was not arrested or charged.
This is the Facebook photo that led to the police raid.
36969


A Dept. of Children and Families spokesperson told Fox News they could not confirm or deny an investigation or raid had taken place due to government regulations.

“The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline,” spokesperson Kristen Brown said. “We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.”

The story was first reported by The Blaze.

Moore, of Carneys Point, is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, an NRA range safety officer and a New Jersey hunter education instructor.

He recently posted a photograph of his son wearing camouflage and holding his new .22 rifle. The child has a New Jersey hunting license and recently passed the state’s hunter safety course.

“If you look at the picture, his finger isn’t even on the trigger – which is proper,” Nappen told Fox News. “If half of Hollywood could follow that rule we’d be thankful.”

Brown said their role is not to go out and search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.

“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.

The family’s trouble started Saturday night when Moore received an urgent text message from his wife. The Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families had raided their home.

Moore immediately called Nappen and rushed home to find officers demanding to check his guns and his gun safe.

Instead, he handed the cell phone to one of the officers – so they could speak with Nappen.

“If you have a warrant, you’re coming in,” Nappen told the officers. “If you don’t, then you’re not. That’s what privacy is all about.”

With his attorney on speaker phone, Moore instructed the officers to leave his home.

“I was told I was being unreasonable and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn’t open my safe,” Moore wrote on the Delaware Open Carry website. “They told me they were going to get a search warrant. I told them to go ahead.”
Moore took this photo of police outside his home.

Moore took this photo of police outside his home.

Nappen told Fox News the police wanted to inventory his firearms.

“”We said no way, it’s not happening,” he said. “This is a guy who is completely credentialed and his son is also credentialed.”

The attorney said police eventually left and never returned.

“He has a Fourth Amendment right and he’s not going to give up his Fourth Amendment right or his Second Amendment right,” he said. “They didn’t have a warrant – so see you later.”

Brown told Fox News that it’s “prudent and wise to protect children.”

“In many cases we may follow up on something and we don’t find any problems and the case is closed,” she said.

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

Nappen said what happened to the Moore family should serve as a warning to gun owners across the nation.

“To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous,” he said. “Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so.”

Nappen said they are considering taking legal action against the state for the late night raid.

[merl]

...is a “firearm” which was manufactured outside the state of Colorado, and therefore traveled in and affected interstate or foreign commerce.

I don't even know what that means ???

FedGov can only regulate firearms based on the commerce clause so section 922.g says it is illegal for <these people> to possess a firearm or ammunition that has traveled interstate or affect interstate commerce. That 'affect' part is the weasel part that give em regulations over everything.

It means he is a <prohibited person> and they found a gun.

[kidicarus13]

An item NOT made in CO was used in pictures by a person illegally in the US . Violating ICC statures


FedGov can only regulate firearms based on the commerce clause so section 922.g says it is illegal for <these people> to possess a firearm or ammunition that has traveled interstate or affect interstate commerce. That 'affect' part is the weasel part that give em regulations over everything.

It means he is a <prohibited person> and they found a gun.
Gracias

[Great-Kazoo]

Gracias

personally i believe someone took offense, he was sporting a DEA hat. No hat, no foul.

[sniper7]

Fuck Gaspar Gomez, and fuck the fuckin' Diaz brothers! Fuck'em all! I bury those cock-a-roaches!

[lowbeyond]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24653090/prosecutors-indict-colombian-man-tied-colorado-marijuana-raids

Oh look an indictment. Nothing about drugs or ties to the drug cartels. Nope

It was for holding a rifle.

Congrats again !



Prosecutors indict Colombian man tied to Colorado marijuana raids
By John Ingold
The Denver Post
Posted: 12/04/2013 10:30:06 AM MST | Updated: 30 min. ago

Federal prosecutors have obtained an indictment on a weapons charge against a man arrested during major raids on Colorado medical-marijuana businesses.

The indictment charges 49-year-old Hector Diaz, who is a citizen of Colombia, with a single count of possessing a firearm in violation of his visa. The charge is identical to the one prosecutors filed against Diaz in a criminal complaint last month. The indictment moves the case along more quickly, and it is common in federal court for prosecutors to follow a criminal complaint with an indictment.

Prosecutors obtained the indictment from a grand jury Tuesday, but it was not made public until Wednesday.

Diaz is the only person charged so far in major raids last month on more than a dozen addresses tied to Colorado medical-marijuana businesses. Sources have told The Denver Post that the raids, the largest federal strike against medical-marijuana businesses ever in Colorado, were against an operation that investigators suspect may have connections to Colombian drug cartels.

In court documents and testimony, Diaz has not been accused of any connection to drug cartels, and his defense attorney has submitted documents showing that Diaz is a reserve police officer in his hometown in Colombia.

Instead, the allegations against Diaz stem from a picture that investigators believe was taken in February at a Cherry Hills Village house where Diaz was subsequently found during the raids. The photo shows Diaz holding two "authentic-looking semi-automatic rifles," according to an investigator's affidavit filed last month along with the original criminal complaint. Diaz also appeared to have two handguns in his waistband and was wearing a Drug Enforcement Administration ballcap, according to the document.

The charge in the indictment references only one of those suspected weapons, a military-style Smith and Wesson M&P 15, which investigators found at the Cherry Hills Village house during the raids. In an interview with investigators, Diaz admitted to holding the weapons inside the house after he'd been drinking, according to the affidavit. Because Diaz was in the United States on a visa only for tourism and limited business purposes, he was not allowed to possess firearms.

If convicted, Diaz could face as much as 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, though attorneys have said in court the sentence would likely be much less. Prosecutors are also seeking forfeiture of the rifle.

Earlier this week, a magistrate judge said he would allow Diaz to be released from custody on a $25,000 bond, assuming Diaz can meet certain conditions required for electronic monitoring. The earliest that could happen is Thursday, though it is unclear whether the indictment will change that.

John Ingold: 303-954-1068, jingold@denverpost.com or twitter.com/john_ingo

[merl]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24653090/prosecutors-indict-colombian-man-tied-colorado-marijuana-raids

Oh look an indictment. Nothing about drugs or ties to the drug cartels. Nope

It was for holding a rifle.

Congrats again !

The raid was for holding the rifle. The arrest was for finding one.

[strm_trpr]

Just as I said, the Fed is grasping at straws.

Oh and marijuana having ties to Columbia Cartels? DUH!!! Where does the government thing the seeds come from?

[Aloha_Shooter]

I think we'd all agree there's large amounts of stupid in this thread ... we just disagree on which specific parts are stupid.

[Flower]

[Colorado_Outback]

Where does the government thing the seeds come from?


Not from Columbia.. LOL

Mostly from seed banks in Europe and Canada.