View Full Version : Cost of CBI InstaCheck to "Increase Significantly"
Bailey Guns
12-01-2013, 09:49
At my LGS yesterday and was told by the owner he received a letter from CBI stating there would be a "significant increase" to the cost of the background check after the first of the year. Didn't actually see the letter.
Big surprise.
This is my shocked face.
I was guessing 7% increase per year but they can be as greedy as they desire. We have no recourse.
StagLefty
12-01-2013, 10:01
Wonder when they're going to let us know ?
Remind me again why we don't use the federal background check like most other states?
They'll let us know whenever they feel like it, we just have to pony up when they do. Is this how the colonists felt prior to the Boston Tea Party?
Remind me again why we don't use the federal background check like most other states?
Because Colorado state government saw an opportunity to make a buck and the only thing better than making a buck is charging you twice for the same service.
Because they can.
Because it makes you safer.
streetglideok
12-01-2013, 10:14
All the gun owners, remember that, especially the fudds when they go to buy another hunting rifle. Perhaps they will be more willing to sign the recall petitions.
The peasants will be easier to control when only the wealthy can afford to own guns.
Bailey Guns
12-01-2013, 10:22
I can't find anything online to support this. I'm going to try to get a copy of the letter tomorrow.
Would like more proof. At what price point do you say fug it and not worry about this bs any more
The fee charged can be changed at any time to any amount. There is a required report on the amount of the fee due on Jan 15.
By statute it cannot exceed the direct & indirect costs so we'll get the report on those costs on the 15th. Well actually the joint budget committee will get the report, I'm assuming it will be public information.
And by indirect costs they mean fund the children's education, save the children from drugs, fund the entire state LEO fund and retirement, among others.
Bailey Guns
12-01-2013, 11:13
At what price point do you say fug it and not worry about this bs any more
Somewhere around $10.
[Coffee]
The fee charged can be changed at any time to any amount. There is a required report on the amount of the fee due on Jan 15.
By statute it cannot exceed the direct & indirect costs so we'll get the report on those costs on the 15th. Well actually the joint budget committee will get the report, I'm assuming it will be public information.
The direct and indirect costs can be manipulate how ever they want. Brophy did a pretty good job explaining this during the one sided debates.
The direct and indirect costs can be manipulate how ever they want. Brophy did a pretty good job explaining this during the one sided debates.
Of course they can, we get to see the accounting on Jan15. Doing BG checks may turn out to be a pretty plush job in a couple years.
Of course what can we do about it? Complain to the same *censored* people that passed it.
Great-Kazoo
12-01-2013, 11:23
Remind me again why we don't use the federal background check like most other states?
Part of the reason is for more local "oversight" this occurred after that guy offed his wife in castle rock
Of course they can, we get to see the accounting on Jan15. Doing BG checks may turn out to be a pretty plush job in a couple years.
Of course what can we do about it? Complain to the same *censored* people that passed it.
All they need is some creative accounting and those numbers mean nothing. Its not the first time a government agency would do something like that.
BPTactical
12-01-2013, 12:46
But we were assured the $10.00 "fee" implemented this last year would be more than adequate for any future needs.
We need to verify this and hammer our representatives of that fact.
We need to make so much noise at ANY firearm related legislation/taxes/fees that it is unattractive to them.
And a reminder of the recalls can't hurt either.
We have a real opportunity here folks. For once in this states history we have proved that We The People have a voice and it is loud enough to make a difference.
Let's not let that opportunity slip away......
And by indirect costs they mean fund the children's education, save the children from drugs, fund the entire state LEO fund and retirement, among others.
The only law enforcement retirement funded by the state is for the Colorado State Patrol and state employed law enforcement such as CBI. Police and sheriffs are primarily funded by the city and counties which employ the officers.
Please direct your anger and frustration at the abused and underfunded PERA system which covers teachers, public defenders, and state employees.
But we were assured the $10.00 "fee" implemented this last year would be more than adequate for any future needs.
We need to verify this and hammer our representatives of that fact.
We need to make so much noise at ANY firearm related legislation/taxes/fees that it is unattractive to them.
And a reminder of the recalls can't hurt either.
We have a real opportunity here folks. For once in this states history we have proved that We The People have a voice and it is loud enough to make a difference.
Let's not let that opportunity slip away......
Did anyone actually believe that lie? The (D) wrote it in such a way that it would be open ended so that the (D) could charge whatever they want any time they want. This is a back-door way to make firearms purchases self limiting, once that cost goes through the roof the (D) figures that no one will be buying any guns, new or used from anyone in the entire state because the buyers won't be able to afford the transaction fee(s). The (D) is using our law-abiding nature against us.
I argued that if BG checks were so costly and time consuming for CSP, maybe they should allow FFLs be able to have direct access to the BG check databases. No need for a paid uniformed monkey to input data into a computer when a FFL could do the same thing for free. Its all automated after all.
I argued that if BG checks were so costly and time consuming for CSP, maybe they should allow FFLs be able to have direct access to the BG check databases. No need for a paid uniformed monkey to input data into a computer when a FFL could do the same thing for free. Its all automated after all.
The CBI does them in Colorado. They uses the FBI's NICS that is free and a redundant check through their records.
Of course, nobody is asking FFLs if $10 is the right number for them to handle the transfers. The state gets to increase fees, but the local FFL is locked in at $10.
Of course, nobody is asking FFLs if $10 is the right number for them to handle the transfers. The state gets to increase fees, but the local FFL is locked in at $10.
Doncha know? All gun shop owners are MIILLIONAIRES, just ask some of their customers and the government. :)
Of course, nobody is asking FFLs if $10 is the right number for them to handle the transfers. The state gets to increase fees, but the local FFL is locked in at $10.
Lets say 10 bucks is the real amount that a shop can charge for a transfer, above the 10+ for the state. How does the state tell a business owner what his time is worth? They'll just quit doing them. Problem solved.
Lets say 10 bucks is the real amount that a shop can charge for a transfer, above the 10+ for the state. How does the state tell a business owner what his time is worth? They'll just quit doing them. Problem solved.
That was the original intent of the limit on FFL fees in the first place. Now they'll jack the fee up to $50 to further discourage people from doing business. And then they'll point to the success of the law in reducing illegal transactions, right up to the point that someone plays shooting gallery in another "gun free" zone, at which point they'll reveal that the gun was obtained in an illegal transaction, and the only way to prevent such a tragedy in the future is with gun registration...
The playbook is well documented and transparent.
Well they raked in just over $38k on Friday. Lets see how much they actually spent to do the checks. I bet it is less than 1/3 of that. So the BG fee should be $3.33 or less.
newracer
12-01-2013, 21:33
Well they raked in just over $38k on Friday. Lets see how much they actually spent to do the checks. I bet it is less than 1/3 of that. So the BG fee should be $3.33 or less.
And I heard they completed all the checks with 16 man hours.
some of our local gun shops need to lean on the politicians to completely do away with checks on the state level. so many things can be done to improve this system if we cant kill it off. Current gun owners andCHP holders should all be exempt.
electronman1729
12-01-2013, 22:57
This is outrageous!
This is nothing more than a poll tax
The only law enforcement retirement funded by the state is for the Colorado State Patrol and state employed law enforcement such as CBI. Police and sheriffs are primarily funded by the city and counties which employ the officers.
Please direct your anger and frustration at the abused and underfunded PERA system which covers teachers, public defenders, and state employees.
Dont get your nightstick bent, I wasn't going after LEO in any way shape or form. I was pointing out that the demonrats will try to say they need funding for any numerous causes so they can cut into our wallets more.
Hmmm, and my wife has a position in Cody, WY that is open to her if she wants it after the new year.....
The owner of a LGS that doesn't do NFA or NFA transfers tells customers that having an NFA item waives your constitutional right to search & seizure allowing any LE entity to come into your house at any time and search it.
Doesn't make it a fact.
lowbeyond
12-02-2013, 13:26
law is the LAW!
Suckers
BPTactical
12-02-2013, 15:43
You know, what the Bolt said makes sense and it all comes together and makes even more sense.
PERA + Amendment 66 = solvency for publicly funded retirement.
Only 66 went down in flames.
PERA + increased "fees" to CBI for BGC = solvency for publicly funded retirement.
DeusExMachina
12-02-2013, 16:46
I hope everyone keeps in mind that some businesses, like The Firing Line, supported the bill to instate the Gun Tax. I'm sure if you look you can find the video from the news report.
sneakerd
12-02-2013, 17:32
That's not true. But way to go- continue sabotaging the good that I tried to do for members when I started working there. This kind of crap is why I've pretty much stopped posting here.
I hope everyone keeps in mind that some businesses, like The Firing Line, supported the bill to instate the Gun Tax. I'm sure if you look you can find the video from the news report.
From: http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/us/colorado-gun-control/
Richard Taylor, a manager at the Aurora gun store and range Firing Line, said the 15-round restrictions on rifle magazines are "poorly worded" and are likely to affect owners of nearly every magazine. He said sheriffs consider the new legislation unenforceable, and the $10 limit on charging individual buyers for background checks is far below the $50 a store typically charges for handling a transfer.
"If the dealers can't make any money at $10, they're not going to do it," Taylor said. Under those circumstances, "How are people going to legally transfer a firearm?"
SideShow Bob
12-02-2013, 17:51
That's not true. But way to go- continue sabotaging the good that I tried to do for members when I started working there. This kind of crap is why I've pretty much stopped posting here.
Good to see you posting again Sneakerd.
And what you do at the Firing Line is the Devil's work. You present us with temptation beyond our resistance and we end up spending more than we plan when we just came there to just use the range........[Tooth]
I hope everyone keeps in mind that some businesses, like The Firing Line, supported the bill to instate the Gun Tax. I'm sure if you look you can find the video from the news report.
That I don't recall. I do recall $50 transfer fees last spring, or maybe that was somewhere else. Anyway that is their right; Saying transfer $50 is the same as saying they don't want to do them but will if you really want it.
That's not true. But way to go- continue sabotaging the good that I tried to do for members when I started working there. This kind of crap is why I've pretty much stopped posting here.
Good to see that my memory was not faulty about that at least.
sneakerd
12-02-2013, 17:58
And nowhere does anyone say "The Firing Line supports the bill to instate the Gun Tax". That interview was heavily edited, I was standing 5 feet away. What he said has totally come true, as the current situation proves. At that time, we were in the middle of the panic of 2012/2013. 2 months later, The Firing Line lowered the panic-driven transfer fee from $50 to $30.
Knowing both Dave & Richard for some time now, I can't believe anyone would seriously buy into this crap.
Dave - stick around awhile....u keep things interesting round here.
DeusExMachina
12-02-2013, 20:32
That's not true. But way to go- continue sabotaging the good that I tried to do for members when I started working there. This kind of crap is why I've pretty much stopped posting here.
So you never said this?
That quote was taken out of context for starters. We welcome "friendly" news organizations in an effort to get our side out as much as possible. There is no special arrangement with anyone. Just wondering, where do people think the funding for CBI is going to come from- especially with the additional funding request being shut down a few weeks ago? Who is going to do all of the additional background checks if some kind of universal bgc law is enacted? Does anyone really think it will be free? Are all of you going to be satisfied with permanent 7 days and more wait times? Without funds coming from somewhere- it will be an endless backlog with no end in sight. Beyond that- do you realize that the gunshop will almost certainly have to take possession of the firearm from a private gun sale for the duration of the background check? So would you prefer background checks to continue at their current pace and likely get much worse, or perhaps go back to where they were last November and before? I'll hand over the sawbuck thanks, and happily.
And several members, including myself, saw the video and know what he said. It's gone from 9news' website.
You can read more, even me defending Firing Line, in this thread from less than a year ago: https://www.ar-15.co/threads/85835-Firing-Line-s-New-Transfer-Fees-Price-Gouging
sneakerd
12-02-2013, 20:45
It took you this long? The point of the whole thing was that a tidal wave was coming our way. Did anyone at FL or me, actually want ANY increased scrutiny of ANY kind on our personal business? Of course not. Was accepting (so to speak) a $10 BGC fee as the lesser of likely evils coming our way the best hope? Maybe- that's what it was for me. You present your hatred in a way that implies to anyone reading that my employer was/is pro increased fees/taxes, whatever you want to call it. Are you insane? Put a sock in it pal.
sneakerd
12-02-2013, 20:53
I apologize for this diversion from the original subject. We have not rec'd notice of any changes in the fee structure as of yet. But we would be fools to think that the Dems will not raise the fees.
spqrzilla
12-02-2013, 21:28
sneakerd, I visit the Firing Line regularly. I've bought and/or sold nearly a dozen firearms there. If you saw a photo of me, you'd recognize me (and roll your eyes, I'm sure).
I endorse your efforts wholeheartedly.
Want a hug? (just kidding) [Coffee] I have low standards. I'll even hug Richard.
And I'm f***ing jealous of your tag by the way. So much better than mine.
I apologize for this diversion from the original subject. We have not rec'd notice of any changes in the fee structure as of yet. But we would be fools to think that the Dems will not raise the fees.
Thanks for the info.
I'm f***ing jealous of your tag by the way. So much better than mine.
At least your tag is unmolested, things could be worse.
spqrzilla
12-02-2013, 23:26
No, Rabid, the tag is a lie.
It was molested.
clublights
12-03-2013, 00:38
No, Rabid, the tag is a lie.
It was molested.
Like a choir boy in the 80's?
too soon?
No, Rabid, the tag is a lie.
It was molested.
looks legit too me.
Like a choir boy in the 80's?
too soon?
Too late, try the 00's
I apologize for this diversion from the original subject. We have not rec'd notice of any changes in the fee structure as of yet. But we would be fools to think that the Dems will not raise the fees.
Good news, as of now, but yes, we should all expect the dems to raise the fees... it would probably be a stretch to actually think anyone would ask "hey, what do the FFLs around the state think of $x.xx?" BOHICA.
kidicarus13
12-03-2013, 13:48
Good news, as of now, but yes, we should all expect the dems to raise the fees.
I can't find anything online to support this. I'm going to try to get a copy of the letter tomorrow.
I guess we can wait and see.
kidicarus13
12-06-2013, 23:47
...and wait
They will keep raising the fees and people will eventually just go back to purchasing firearms on the QT and avoid the FFL's all together. I am not supporting breaking the law, but people will only tolerate so much crap before they get sick of eating it and start pushing the plate away.
They will keep raising the fees and people will eventually just go back to purchasing firearms on the QT and avoid the FFL's all together. I am not supporting breaking the law, but people will only tolerate so much crap before they get sick of eating it and start pushing the plate away.
Then they setup a few stings and take away people's gun rights for 2 years a pop. That BGC law has a pretty severe penalty.
A little seasoning will make the fees taste good again.
NightCat
12-07-2013, 11:07
Did anyone actually believe that lie? The (D) wrote it in such a way that it would be open ended so that the (D) could charge whatever they want any time they want. This is a back-door way to make firearms purchases self limiting, once that cost goes through the roof the (D) figures that no one will be buying any guns, new or used from anyone in the entire state because the buyers won't be able to afford the transaction fee(s). The (D) is using our law-abiding nature against us.
I'm under the same impression as this ^^
Well said Roberth!
Bailey Guns
12-07-2013, 17:34
...and wait
Josh (the owner) has been bird hunting in KS this week. Just waiting for him to return to the shop on Mon.
How much time do you think it takes for CBI to run 1 check?
The going rate (direct + indirect) at our office is ~$50/hour for a $60k per year technician at the state office I work at. Indirect costs include replacement of expensive equipment, ~$100,000 per year, consumable supplies and review of test results by a second tech for. Our cost are similar to private lab costs we send our overflow work to.
kidicarus13
12-20-2013, 09:40
Josh (the owner) has been bird hunting in KS this week. Just waiting for him to return to the shop on Mon.
Is Josh back?
sneakerd
12-20-2013, 09:53
At The Firing Line, we have received no such notification, so I'm going to call BS on this one. By the way, according to our GM, it would not be normal for CBI to give any advance notification. Just like the immediate implementation of the fees on the 1st of July.. it will just come down like a hammer with no warning.
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