View Full Version : Do you modify your carry weapon
For a carry weapon, do you make any modifications/upgrades/etc that are not stock?
Like triggers, lightened springs, connectors, etc or do you leave it stock??
Stainless steel guide rod instead of that plastic shit in the P229 and SP2022.
Summer P938 is going to have to get a stainless trigger replacement and Wolf main spring. Great gun but the trigger is the suck.
Great-Kazoo
12-07-2013, 09:10
Stock internals with some fluff n buff on the contact points. There will be some debate regarding the "legalities" if involved in a self defense scenario. I carry what my comfort level is.
Sights, grips, guide rods, yes.
I have resisted modifying anything having to do with trigger or trigger pull to this point.
Yea that's my point for this thread. I do the $.25 glock trigger job that's about it internal wise.
Then grip force and night sights for external.
nathan0259
12-07-2013, 10:02
On 1911 and glocks I change the trigger to my liking. I'm not worried about some suite judging my gun being "more" dangerous. The only time I could see it being a concern is in a AD/ND or if you miss what you are aiming at.
On 1911 and glocks I change the trigger to my liking. I'm not worried about some suite judging my gun being "more" dangerous. The only time I could see it being a concern is in a AD/ND or if you miss what you are aiming at.
The problem being, that if there's even the slightest doubt that a defensive shooting is completely justified, you're likely to end up in civil court, facing a lawyer who's job it is to make you look like a maniacal vigilante that was just itching to gun down some poor, misled, disadvantaged urban 'ute, with your hair trigger, extra deadly factory of destruction.
Switching an SAO trigger from a 10# pull to a usual and customary 4.5# pull (most are that or less from the factory) is not an issue for me personally.
blacklabel
12-07-2013, 11:30
On 1911 and glocks I change the trigger to my liking. I'm not worried about some suite judging my gun being "more" dangerous. The only time I could see it being a concern is in a AD/ND or if you miss what you are aiming at.
Don't worry about it all you want but it will become a point of any prosecution. I haven't touched any of the internals on my carry gun, not because of the potential for legal issues but for the fact that I haven't seen a need to.
nathan0259
12-07-2013, 12:26
The problem being, that if there's even the slightest doubt that a defensive shooting is completely justified, you're likely to end up in civil court, facing a lawyer who's job it is to make you look like a maniacal vigilante that was just itching to gun down some poor, misled, disadvantaged urban 'ute, with your hair trigger, extra deadly factory of destruction.
Then make sure you don't carry hollow points those are designed to do nothing but kill people. Make sure your pocket knife is dull too if you sharpen it you would have changed it to be more effective for killing.
I understand your point and I agree the law dogs will be all over how your a crazed killer. I'm going to set my guns up how the work for me. If I'm more accurate with a lighter trigger than that's what I will do.
I stuff all the nooks and crannies with dust and lint.
Any time you are involved in a defensive shooting, you are likely to have to defend your actions in at least a civil court. I do indeed carry hollowpoint ammo(similar to what LEOs are using in my area), but no handloads. My knives are sharp because they are safer that way. Literally ANYTHING you do will be scrutinized, and possibly used to try to influence a jury. I always keep in mind that the burden of proof in a civil trial is much lower than in a criminal court. Simply by choosing not to be victims, we open ourselves to possible civil suits in the event that we are forced to defend our lives and those of our loved ones, so I am very careful about how much I give the potential plaintiff's attorney to work with.
nathan0259
12-07-2013, 12:42
Any time you are involved in a defensive shooting, you are likely to have to defend your actions in at least a civil court. I do indeed carry hollowpoint ammo(similar to what LEOs are using in my area), but no handloads. My knives are sharp because they are safer that way. Literally ANYTHING you do will be scrutinized, and possibly used to try to influence a jury. I always keep in mind that the burden of proof in a civil trial is much lower than in a criminal court. Simply by choosing not to be victims, we open ourselves to possible civil suits in the event that we are forced to defend our lives and those of our loved ones, so I am very careful about how much I give the potential plaintiff's attorney to work with.
I agree and a more accurate fire arm is safer that's why I alter them to work for me. My point is I'm not going to carry a gun I'm a worse shot with because the prosecutor will pick apart every change I have made to the gun. The prosecution will do that no matter what.
I stuff all the nooks and crannies with dust and lint.
[LOL] This too. You forgot dead skin cells, leather fluff and Kydex wear marks.
SouthPaw
12-07-2013, 13:56
Most I have ever done was night sights. I have a +2 grip extension on the same G26. Other than those two I leave them alone.
Zundfolge
12-07-2013, 15:04
Every time the issue of modifying a carry or SD gun comes up there's always a chorus of:
"OMG an anti-gun DA will throw you in prison forever even though the shoot is 110% justified!" [panic]
And yet I've never seen a case where a modification to a gun got an otherwise good guy in trouble (and I've been interested in this subject for a couple decades).
This discussion is never anything more than a bunch of armchair DA's debating the hypothetical. Everyone speaking with such absolute certainty and yet not a single "so-and-so vs. such-and-such-state" case reference linked.
Every time the issue of modifying a carry or SD gun comes up there's always a chorus of:
"OMG an anti-gun DA will throw you in prison forever even though the shoot is 110% justified!" [panic]
And yet I've never seen a case where a modification to a gun got an otherwise good guy in trouble (and I've been interested in this subject for a couple decades).
This discussion is never anything more than a bunch of armchair DA's debating the hypothetical. Everyone speaking with such absolute certainty and yet not a single "so-and-so vs. such-and-such-state" case reference linked.
Not a case of a modified firearm, but merely the choice to carry a 10mm instead of a .40 or .45...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2790117/posts
blacklabel
12-07-2013, 15:50
It was a standard Glock 19 loaded with a combination of Slivertip ammunition and some other miscellaneous ammo that was at the bottom of the mag. He was trying to paint the picture of this gun being inherently dangerous, reckless, unsafe, saying "It doesn't have a safety on it, does it?"
Page 29, paragraph 2.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey%20Booklet.pdf
I've found other instances of the firearm, it's safety or modifications being called into question in the past but don't feel like digging them up.
BuffCyclist
12-07-2013, 16:03
^ The answer to the safety question is no, a Glock does not have a safety ON it. The safeties are IN it! [LOL]
BuffCyclist
12-07-2013, 16:15
To answer the OP's question, I have never done anything to my carry pistol (Glock 23). Was always spending my toy money on other things, so I never did anything to the trigger or bought night sights.
My M&P40c however, I swapped out the sear housing block (from factory part) to get rid of the Internal Lock and the Magazine Disconnect (I did this mod because if I bought the version without the IL/MD, then it would have a huge ugly warning on the slide that says "This firearm is capable of firing with the magazine removed). I then bought an Apex RAM in the slight chance that the trigger spring were ever to break. I have some Trijicon HD night sights ready to install when I get free time and eventually I'll get the Apex Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit. But, that's probably all I will ever do with it other than shoot the snot out of it.
And to be fair, an attorney could claim that because you have a range membership that you were preparing to be in a gunfight. They can claim anything, but lawyers are lawyers and they will make up all sorts of crazy shit just to get their client off the hook, or make the defendant look guilty.
Mick-Boy
12-08-2013, 00:40
New sights at the very least. I've got KKM barrels in most of my guns at this point. I generally don't mess around with the guts of the gun too much. I've found that shooting a glock a lot gives it a pretty good trigger job. ;)
night sights and stippling.
hurley842002
12-08-2013, 01:08
Since I carry Glock, new sights (typically nights) are mandatory. My current G26 carry, just received a stipple job, and so far I'm loving it! Outside of that, mine remain stock.
On a serious note, what I have done to my carry gun, [nothing], is much different than what I'd like to/need to do to my carry gun [night sights, APEX stuff, light].
Ive never understood the idea of a judge looking at a self defense case and throwing the book at the good guy simply because he upgraded his carry peice. Im not talking about " upgrades" like punisher grips on your 1911, or a confederate flag on your Glock back plate. I would think that rather than malice of forethought or intent it would instead show due dilligence to have sensible safe upgrades to our carry firearms. If I was in a multi car collision and was accused of being at fault I would hope I had upgraded brakes, a shiny bright color paintjob, and a loud horn. This would show the judge/ jury I was concerned for my safety and the safety of others. All the mods to my Glock are to allow me to more effeciently and accurately use it. They do not impede or hurt the reliability and are not for show or flash.
Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
wctriumph
12-08-2013, 10:44
I chose my carry guns for their known reliability, made sure that will work 100% of the time as they came from the factory and left them as is. No mods and quality ammo, good to go, I don't have to worry about them. EVER!
Someone please site a case where this happened or stfu with the speculation.
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Someone please site a case where this happened or stfu with the speculation.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/09/upyzyha6.jpg
Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
bigun1962
12-08-2013, 13:26
I modify nothing. Find a reliable gun you can shoot/carry. Then clean weekly and practice, practice and then practice some moe.
bigun1962
12-08-2013, 13:32
Sights really???? When my recruits can't help but jerk the trigger I take the sights off the gun, mix in some dummie rounds and film them. Sights on a carry gun are near worthelss. If you need sights on your carry gun, you will need cover worse.
Mick-Boy
12-08-2013, 13:54
Sights really???? When my recruits can't help but jerk the trigger I take the sights off the gun, mix in some dummie rounds and film them. Sights on a carry gun are near worthelss. If you need sights on your carry gun, you will need cover worse.
You're out of your damn mind.
You have to be able to account for the rounds you fired. A good set of sights should be an immediate upgrade to something like a glock.
Before we start throwing stones, I've gone through a couple of shooting investigations with .gov agencies that tend to look into things when you kill folks. The ability to articulate what the threat was and what I saw when I chose to engage the threat was pretty freaking useful... to put it mildly.
"I placed the front sight (dot, reticle, etc) on center mass of the target and processed the threat until it was no longer viable."
Is a whole lot better than
"I think I was shooting at the threat but I was too busy running for cover to be sure. I never saw any reference to ensure the rounds I fired were impacting the intended target."
Sighted fire scores hits. Spray and pray (even in CENTCOM AOs but especially CONUS) is just asking for additional scrutiny. This has been well established.
Please update your TTPs before offering people advice.
hurley842002
12-08-2013, 14:10
Sights really???? When my recruits can't help but jerk the trigger I take the sights off the gun, mix in some dummie rounds and film them. Sights on a carry gun are near worthelss. If you need sights on your carry gun, you will need cover worse.
Very sound advice, maybe I should have Bert remove the sights from my Glock before I continue carrying. Bert how soon can you fit me in, I don't want to be without a carry weapon for to long?......... <sarcasm>
blacklabel
12-08-2013, 14:21
Someone please site a case where this happened or stfu with the speculation.
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
It's been done befo.
Im really interested to know how shooting without a point of reference aka sights will improve my chance of winning a gunfight or stopping an assailint. On that note...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/09/a4yjabem.jpg
Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
Without a front sight, what does one look at while pulling the trigger?
One winks at the nearest lady like a baller!
blacklabel
01-23-2014, 17:36
Without a front sight, what does one look at while pulling the trigger?
They look at their freedom and then kiss it goodbye.
They look at their freedom and then kiss it goodbye.
That's the cold hard reality of it.
ChunkyMonkey
01-23-2014, 19:08
Someone please site a case where this happened or stfu with the speculation.
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Nothing to cite without doing more research. But this is a good reading of that argument.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Network_2011-3.pdf
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tinelement
01-23-2014, 19:37
Without a front sight, what does one look at while pulling the trigger?
They look at their freedom and then kiss it goodbye.
That's the cold hard reality of it.
I'm all for quality equipment and sights. But what if my attacker is on top of me and all I can do is draw and fire from the hip? Where do the sights play in? Am I gonna go to jail for not using my sights?
blacklabel
01-23-2014, 19:40
Point shooting is a valuable skill and should definitely be used when needed but a person is going to get roasted if they knowingly remove the sights from their weapon.
Mick-Boy
01-23-2014, 20:35
I'm all for quality equipment and sights. But what if my attacker is on top of me and all I can do is draw and fire from the hip? Where do the sights play in? Am I gonna go to jail for not using my sights?
The key (in my experience) has been the ability to articulate the situation, why you chose to do what you did, and how you went about doing it. It's not hard to imagine the situation you describe being easily articulable (by your lawyer)... But I carry a pistol and I want it to be capable in a wide variety of circumstances, from a contact shot to a 25yd head shot. I don't have the luxury of selecting the right tool for the job. I have to make it work with what's on my hip.
My pistol is going to have good sights and I'm going to be comfortable with how it hits at different distances with my defensive ammo. After that it comes down to training.
Shooting someone from retention while they're trying not to get shot/trying to take your gun and kill you with it/trying to use their gun to kill you isn't as easy as we might like to think.
It's a shame SouthNarc won't be back in 2014.
YammyMonkey
02-12-2014, 01:20
I agree with Mick on all counts. Taping over the sights can be a useful range drill to see what's possible without them and with a bunch of well-established physical index points, but pulling them outright is negligent.
If someone is on top of you trying to beat you unconscious the sights (and probably the gun itself) won't do you a whole lot of good. As the distance increases, the sights become much more important.
ChadAmberg
02-12-2014, 15:52
"Your honor, I had BP Tactical work on my carry gun."
"Case dismissed!"
"Your honor, I had BP Tactical work on my carry gun."
Judge - "Well, we are going to have to subpoena that hooligan".
Only these snazzy home-made grip panels...
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/jhallrv4/kimberstocksleft.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jhallrv4/media/kimberstocksleft.jpg.html)
Only these snazzy home-made grip panels...
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/jhallrv4/kimberstocksleft.jpg (http://s126.photobucket.com/user/jhallrv4/media/kimberstocksleft.jpg.html)
Nice job on the grips!
Apex 3# pull kit on my shield. Runs tip top and feels the way it should have from S&W.
KestrelBike
03-05-2014, 01:55
Night sights, and for one SD gun removed the magazine-released "safety"
LeftHandBlack
03-06-2014, 18:35
I changed the grips on mine and havent felt a need to go further. If there is a modification that will improve your shooting or how the gun functions go for it. Practice with the weapon to ensure it is dependable and your good.
buckshotbarlow
03-09-2014, 19:42
On my carry, first I make sure that the gun has had a least 1k rounds through it to make sure it's reliable...Second, I change regular sites to nighties. Third, and most important is practicing with the gun in a local pistol match. Know it, live it, love it and learn it. When you're under the clock, and have people watching you...You'll be amazed at the "wtf gun didn't go bang???" theory...
Um, dumbass...you're out of ammo, time to reload!!! Upham! Upham! (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0369973/?ref_=tt_cl_t8)where the fuck is my mag??? Stress reloading, is an amazing trait to learn and master, after learning how to count your shots. Modifying your gun is second, modifying your gray matter is first..
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