So I'm A-hole for a Boss & Should Except that People aren't Perfect

[SuperiorDG]

So I have an employee that has been with us for over a year. There are a few things that I have instructed "T" to do a certain way and other things I've instructed not to do. On the at least fourth time explaining the same thing I get the response, "you need to understand that people are not prefect and relax with all this criticism." I'm sorry, but this is not "my need." I believe that excepting the fact that we are human and not prefect leads to mediocrity. One needs to deny this fact and always push for perfection. Once you say, "well I'm just human" you are domed to mediocrity. I wish I could get this across to my people.

End rant. [Rant1]

[sniper7]

tell him it is his job to do it a certain way and that if that can't be accomplished it is time to seek different employment.

[Colorado_Outback]

Sounds like its performance review time..

[cofi]

Maybe you should try to explain it differently (if you haven't all ready)

At my currentjob its my first time doing construction and I would have to keep asking for direction the first month or so because people would be used to giving instruction to people with more experience then me and leave stuff out or gloss over stuff that would normally be common knowlage

[MrPrena]

Anyone is replaceable.

It doesn't matter if someone is a 25 year tenure professor at Oxford, Chief Medical Officer at a pharmaceutical company with MDPhD who is a Nobel recipient , or CEO of financial company who makes $65m/yr.
We just proved that even a state senators are replaceable. :)

[KS63]

There's the door... Lots of people who want to be perfect need a job right now. I wouldn't put up with it. A shitty employee becomes a reflection of you.

[ChuckNorris]

There's the door... Lots of people who want to be perfect need a job right now. I wouldn't put up with it. A shitty employee becomes a reflection of you.

Hit the nail on the head!

[th3w01f]

As our CEO is fond of saying "I'm sure that either you or your replacement will be able to rectify the situation".

[BPTactical]

tell him it is his job to do it a certain way and that if that can't be accomplished it is time to seek different employment.

This.
It is your business Richard and as an employee he has the OBLIGATION to perform his duties to his employers standards. As an employer you have a reasonable expectation that the employee will perform his duties as instructed.
Until he has his own business he is just an employee.

If that is too much for him..........well, as a boss of mine used to say: "you can always find an ass to fill a seat"







But yes, you are an A-hole.[LOL]

[SSChameleon]

Not to bash on the boss here, but I think you meant accepting, not excepting.

For the employee situation, your 'T' I half right. There is no perfect employee. You need to decide what level of 'not perfect' you can tolerate in your office. Based on your description of this guy, he does not demonstrate a desire to improve or do the job better. That, for me, is a much bigger issue than doing the task incorrectly. Personally, I would explain that I don't expect perfection but I do expect accountability and for an employee to man up and fix their mistakes. And also set the expectation that employees should be able to learn and improve.

If the attitude and performance doesn't improve, it's time to start accepting applications for the position.

[killianak9]

There's the door... Lots of people who want to be perfect need a job right now. I wouldn't put up with it. A shitty employee becomes a reflection of you.

This^^^^^
Im sure there's someone that would love to do a perfect job and DO It as instructed ! As to you being an asshole boss,expecting an employee to do their job and do it right goes not make you an asshole. That's your role and responsibility as a good boss.

[SuperiorDG]

Not to bash on the boss here, but I think you meant accepting, not excepting.

For the employee situation, your 'T' I half right. There is no perfect employee. You need to decide what level of 'not perfect' you can tolerate in your office. Based on your description of this guy, he does not demonstrate a desire to improve or do the job better. That, for me, is a much bigger issue than doing the task incorrectly. Personally, I would explain that I don't expect perfection but I do expect accountability and for an employee to man up and fix their mistakes. And also set the expectation that employees should be able to learn and improve.

If the attitude and performance doesn't improve, it's time to start accepting applications for the position.

You are correct, I do see the biggest issue with the attitude that, "well I'm not perfect and that's just the way it is."

[SuperiorDG]

This^^^^^
Im sure there's someone that would love to do a perfect job and DO It as instructed ! As to you being an asshole boss,expecting an employee to do their job and do it right goes not make you an asshole. That's your role and responsibility as a good boss.

As Bert pointed out, I'm kind of an asshole, but I see your point.

[sellersm]

"people are not perfect" is an excuse. Period. Perfection is never the goal, but doing a job in the manner in which you're being paid to do the job, is the goal. People make their own choices, if "T" continues to make such choices, then "T" has chosen the logical consequences of those choices... Don't allow "T" to diffuse or detract by deflecting "perfection" onto you. If "T" wants to continue to be employed with you, then it's up to "T" to make different choices so that continued employment is the outcome of "T"'s choices.

Just because the gubment and most of the world accepts such crap, doesn't mean you have to...

[MarkCO]

I have tried to "detach" in this realm. I sell a "product" to the customer. It has to be right, or I lose the customer. My employees sell me their expertise, drive, labor, etc, as a material, or resource, to goes into my product. If the raw materials are not up to par, that limits my ability in the chain of commerce to supply the end product to my customer in a satisfactory manner. If the "employees material" is not acceptable, I let them know and give them a chance to improve it (often too many chances). If there is no improvement, I have to source that material from somewhere else.

This underscores the notion that a "non-profitable" employee harms the entire company. If they are too self-focused to understand that concept, they should go be a drain on someone else.

[brianakell]

So I have an employee that has been with us for over a year. There are a few things that I have instructed "T" to do a certain way and other things I've instructed not to do. On the at least fourth time explaining the same thing I get the response, "you need to understand that people are not prefect and relax with all this criticism." I'm sorry, but this is not "my need." I believe that excepting the fact that we are human and not prefect leads to mediocrity. One needs to deny this fact and always push for perfection. Once you say, "well I'm just human" you are domed to mediocrity. I wish I could get this across to my people.

End rant. [Rant1]

Everyone that has screwed up the same thing twice get s***canned. And every time I wonder why I didnt get rid of them earlier, as they hurt more than helped. Can him, replace him, make an example for other employees.

Ive watched a resturant slowly drown because they wont fire anyone. Most locals wont even bother going there anymore because the service is so bad, and the food sucks. No kidding, I ordered a brat, got a hamburger. They asked how the food was, told them it was the strangest brat Id even seen. Waitress was surprised, talked to the cook, came back, and told me they were out of brats. Didnt think you should check with me? Wow.

[Tinelement]

Bye bye.

His comment shows a lack of drive to learn his job and learn it properly.

Had a kid here once that I was trying teach metal finishing to. (We hold our finishing capabilities very high) I told him 10 times to take off he mechanics glove so he could actually feel the metal. I finally threw all his gloves in the garbage. Asshole? Yup! But I was trying to teach him how to properly do the job and do it great. It was a stepping stone. If he couldn't figure it out on a lower priced steel car, how could I ever turn him loose on $5mil aluminum vintage race car??

Be didn't last long after that.

[Skip]

I don't think you're being an asshole, you just subscribe to an outdated values system.

Spend some time in corporate America and you'll see what I mean. The new motto is "we're all human" and people are entitled to screw up all day long (as long as they're not white males). I have seen entire divisions that are held up by the work of ~10% of the employees--the other 90% are dead weight. I'm not exaggerating. For years management had been able to financially reward that 10% for what they do, but now the rewards must be equal--even when the work isn't.

Companies whose stated core values used to be Customer Service or Efficiency are now Diversity and Global Awareness. Well, you ever had a customer buy diversity or awareness from you? Neither have I.

This is why I love contract work--less BS. The customer can say what he really wants and the contractors can deliver without having to attend HR sessions about why you should never compliment a lady on her looks (EVER).

[RblDiver]

Well, in a general context, I agree, people aren't perfect (my only shot at getting into heaven is God accepting that lol). That being said, yeah that was an excuse by the guy.

One thing I love about my company is that it's OK to make a mistake, as long as you own up to it. I've screwed up a few orders or other systems, but if I tell my supervisor or coworkers, we can get things fixed and people are OK with it. I then try to learn from my mistakes and not make the same one again (well, no third time for sure >.>).

It sounds like that person just doesn't want to learn, or hasn't learned that criticism and critique can lead to a better product and employee. Telling someone to correct a mistake isn't telling them that they're a total screwup, but if they keep doing the same thing, then perhaps they ARE a screwup.

[SuperiorDG]

I don't think you're being an asshole, you just subscribe to an outdated values system.

Spend some time in corporate America and you'll see what I mean. The new motto is "we're all human" and people are entitled to screw up all day long (as long as they're not white males). I have seen entire divisions that are held up by the work of ~10% of the employees--the other 90% are dead weight. I'm not exaggerating. For years management had been able to financially reward that 10% for what they do, but now the rewards must be equal--even when the work isn't.

Companies whose stated core values used to be Customer Service or Efficiency are now Diversity and Global Awareness. Well, you ever had a customer buy diversity or awareness from you? Neither have I.

This is why I love contract work--less BS. The customer can say what he really wants and the contractors can deliver without having to attend HR sessions about why you should never compliment a lady on her looks (EVER).

The truth in this statement depresses me.[off-yourself]

[RCCrawler]

I find this funny as well, today I happen to be going through applications for a job I will be interviewing for nextweek. The stuff some of these people put on their applications blows me away with what they want handed to them.

The job I am hiring for clearly states you must be willing to work days/nights/weekends/holidays and the starting salary is $36k-$45k. I had one applicant say he could only work weekdays and would not accept less than $95k. I know we aren't the highest paying in this industry, but I have never seen ANYONE pay that much for this job.

[ray1970]

If you truly were an asshole, you would have fired him on the spot.

What is it this person does? I'm looking for a career change.

[Dave_L]

The inmates are trying to run the asylum.

Since when is it ever OK to tell your boss "I can't do my job". Really? The audacity of people these days doesn't stop. It's crazy.

[tmleadr03]

It is your reputation on every item that goes out of your business. If it isn't done to your satisfaction then they need to go away and be replaced with someone who will. End of story.

[TFOGGER]

Employee:"I don't really desire to do the job you're paying me to do"

Boss:"What job?...there is no more job."

My biggest failing as a boss is that I tend to become friendly with my employees, so it makes it difficult to come down on them when they're not performing up to expectations.

[funkymonkey1111]

So I have an employee that has been with us for over a year. There are a few things that I have instructed "T" to do a certain way and other things I've instructed not to do. On the at least fourth time explaining the same thing I get the response, "you need to understand that people are not prefect and relax with all this criticism." I'm sorry, but this is not "my need." I believe that excepting the fact that we are human and not prefect leads to mediocrity. One needs to deny this fact and always push for perfection. Once you say, "well I'm just human" you are domed to mediocrity. I wish I could get this across to my people.

End rant. [Rant1]

How's T's spelling?

[MarkCO]

Employee:"I don't really desire to do the job you're paying me to do"

Boss:"What job?...there is no more job."

My biggest failing as a boss is that I tend to become friendly with my employees, so it makes it difficult to come down on them when they're not performing up to expectations.

I hear you there. Me too!

[sellersm]

Employee:"I don't really desire to do the job you're paying me to do"

Boss:"What job?...there is no more job."

My biggest failing as a boss is that I tend to become friendly with my employees, so it makes it difficult to come down on them when they're not performing up to expectations.

I know what you mean, but always remember: THEY choose the outcome by THEIR actions! If they want a different outcome, they should make different choices...

[BPTactical]

I was kidding on the A-hole comment Superior.
You should know better. You are a likeable A-hole.

There is something to say about the values and work ethics now. When I was a supervisor for CDOT I had to attend a mandatory training: "Generation X and you" or something like that.
The instructor tried to tell us they have different values and work ethics. Yeah, no shit- the majority of them just wanted to show up and get paid.
She tried telling us they needed different techniques for leadership etc. That was not popular with those in the class, we are of the old school "you do what the boss says and shut up and be happy you have a job".
Needless to say that class didn't go well for anybody involved. A couple of Mountain boys laid into the instructor and basically told her either the new generation does the job with no bs or they can hit the road.
We cheered and the instructor cried a bit.

[KS63]

If it was MY money on the line and he responded with that line, I'd fire him on the spot. When I go to work, and I'm sure all those reading this agree, I try to do my job to the best of my ability. There's a person on the other side paying for my expertise, no one else's. If I fuck it up, I take that personally and learn from that mistake. I have great patience teaching kids with their mistakes. Grown adults....yeah, not so much.

[wctriumph]

If the job is easy, anyone could do it.

I tell my underlings when they come on the job, I expect that you will do this, that and the other thing to your best ability and always tell the truth, don't hide a mistake because we will find out about it. You will be evaluated on these criteria. If you can't do it this way, tell me now so we don't waste each other's time.

[buckshotbarlow]

tell him it is his job to do it a certain way and that if that can't be accomplished it is time to seek different employment.

^^^

ding ding ding we have a winner

[waxthis]

He / she would be gone...

[Eggysrun]

Train to standard, perform to standard and that should be his "minimum".

Guys who go above the standard are the ones that should excel at their workplace in terms of raises and promotions, but alas we have to deal with the entitlement generation where just showing up they think they deserve something.

When I got out of the army active duty it was very hard to adjust to the acceptable half assing work standards employees use in the civilian world and even then require critism or punishment to be cherry coated or non-existent because they have "feelings"

[PugnacAutMortem]

Train to standard, perform to standard and that should be his "minimum".

Guys who go above the standard are the ones that should excel at their workplace in terms of raises and promotions, but alas we have to deal with the entitlement generation where just showing up they think they deserve something.

When I got out of the army active duty it was very hard to adjust to the acceptable half assing work standards employees use in the civilian world and even then require critism or punishment to be cherry coated or non-existent because they have "feelings"

I really detest a large group of people in my generation because of the whole "entitlement" epidemic. I was put in charge of creating an "incentive" program for our warehouse/yard guys because their lack of competence and motivation to do their jobs was directly resulting in $100k inventory losses. So I go through this whole program design and implement it, and the guys dont change a thing of what they are doing because there's no repercussions for not doing their job. My managers are just fine with our yard guys doing their job 80% complete. I've even confronted my manager and her response was "The work that they do complete is done very well, and I don't want to be someone who has to threaten their jobs".

It's ok though, our compensation is quite a bit less than what it should be for our industry because we get semi-annual bonuses that are supposed to make up for it. Then we lose $100k at inventory and our bonuses are crap. Thanks management team, must be nice to make enough money to not have to rely on these bonuses...

Whoa sorry...just got lost in ranting about my job that I'm currently frustrated beyond belief about...carry on...

[crays]

He/she would be gone...

It's MB888???

[XC700116]

SDG I feel your pain, If you can can his/her ass, do it now and save yourself some headaches down the road.

What I hate the most about this stuff is that somehow we as a society have allowed BS like this to propegate to the point where that attitude is somehow seen as acceptable far more than unacceptable. I don't care what your age or "generational tendencies" are, either you have a can do attitude or you don't. I get it that leadership isn't a one size fits all deal and as a boss you may have to find the right button to push to motivate your people, but I won't put up with the whinny assed entitled attitutde, it doesn't work and it drags down the entire group. It drives me crazy and it's why I throw all new hires to the wolves, not looking for perfection from them in that time frame but how they deal with getting hammered from all angles. I'm up against a 60 day deadline and if they make it past that, they're here to stay unless they go out of their way to get fired (stealing, or otherwise committing a crime on company time) because they're in the union and it takes an act of congress to fire them. Needless to say I'm batting 33% on keeping the people I've hired. Employee #1 has hit it out of the park in every way I could ask him to, #2 and #3 not so much, so on day 59 they were gone.

The excuses are what gets me the most, every time I've fired someone their answer to the issue(s) at hand was never "I screwed up and I'll do better next time if there is a next time", it's always an excuse and it's infuriating.

The most depressing part is trying to hire people and you get say 30 applicants, you invite 10 for an interview, 5 show up, and 2-3 walk out when you tell them the expectations of the job and that there's going to be a drug test TODAY, and of the remaining 2 or 3, your lucky as hell if they have a quarter of the skills for the job. This isn't a low paying gig either, we're talking $75K base and plenty of OT to go around. I have 5 of my 9 guy that will break $100K this year.

As to the perfection thing, I've seen it mentioned here that perfection isn't the goal, I disagree, It absolutely should be the goal, but not necessarilly the expectation. Perfection isn't always possible, but that doesn't mean that me or my employees should be shooting for "good enough", we should be shooting for perfection and do the absolute best we can and continually try to get better.

[MrPrena]

It is funny to say this after posting what I posted earlier comment, but I personally do not like firing employees back in past.
I tried real hard to motivate them. I try hard to help them. Usually it works, but it is just those turds who doesn't.

I once hired a guy I knew from school who was really smart. He was not motivated at all, because he use that specific job as a stepping stone.
Later on, we laid off 3 workers, and he was one of them. He now works at a global 100 company, and does well.

Some ass clowns think they are TOO gDAMN GOOD for this/that company. They will 1/2 ass it because they pay less and/or it is not a sector they wish to pursue career on. Some are just there to collect paychecks. Those people are cancer to their employees, and give bad rep to people like me.

Training, Motivation, then Assistance. If someone is patience, I guess the boss can spoon feed the employee for a week. If those doesn't work, it is time for the employee to go bye bye.

[Stone83]

Write 'em up!!!
Get them the hell off your team-

Thats one of the problems in society; Nobody's accountable, and they expect to make $100k a year...
[pileoshit]

[OtterbatHellcat]

Keeping a non performer around is bad on a few levels. Not only does it frustrate you, other employees that are towing the line can become quite frustrated that said shitbag is still around.

The people that do work hard, will question amongst themselves, why? There is a reason why an engine runs like shit, with one dead hole.

[HoneyBadger]

I don't see what all the discussion is about... If you agreed to pay somebody to do a certain job a certain way and they aren't, then you should stop paying them. Demote, lower the pay etc. tell them " I was paying you $18/hr, but the work you are doing is only worth $15/hr, so that's what you'll get paid from now on.

Honestly, I would fire them. They have demonstrated poor work ethic and an unwillingness to learn to do it right, so find someone else who IS willing to work hard and do the job right.





Better yet, just print off this thread and leave it on their desk/workstation. [Coffee]