View Full Version : CCW at Flatirons Mall?
thirdeye
03-29-2009, 16:50
Anyone know the real scoop on this? Are you allowed to CCW at Flatirons? They have a sign that says no firearms but how do you know they're not just talking about open carry, since Colorado is an open carry state?
And let's say, hypothetically, that someone with a CCW choses to ignore the sign, regardless of their interpretation, and CCW in there anyway. What kind of trouble could he or she get into? It's private property. Is there anything they could charge you with that would put your CCW at risk?
GunTroll
03-29-2009, 20:05
Wouldn't risk it. The CCW that is. On the flip side, felons/criminals/unlawful people would carry into the mall. Another example of gun laws affect law abiding people only. Laws aren't written for criminals ...hence the name.
Colorado statutes clearly state that to prohibit the concealed carry of weapons on a premises ALL entrances to said premises must be controlled by metal detectors.
To prohibit the open carrying of weapons ALL entrances to the location must be posted to clearly prohibit OPEN CARRY of weapons.
From what you said in your post, Flatirons has signs up to dissuade people from bringing weapons on the premises. According to Colorado State law, the signs don't mean shit. IF - IF you are caught legally carrying a concealed weapon the most they can do is ask you to leave as it is private property. IF - IF you don't leave and the police arrive you will be charged with Trespassing (assuming you don't run your mouth, be a general ass, etc).
That's it. Carry away. Concealed means concealed, etc., et. al., in adfinitum, and all that jazz.
thirdeye
03-29-2009, 21:46
Colorado statutes clearly state that to prohibit the concealed carry of weapons on a premises ALL entrances to said premises must be controlled by metal detectors.
To prohibit the open carrying of weapons ALL entrances to the location must be posted to clearly prohibit OPEN CARRY of weapons.
From what you said in your post, Flatirons has signs up to dissuade people from bringing weapons on the premises. According to Colorado State law, the signs don't mean shit. IF - IF you are caught legally carrying a concealed weapon the most they can do is ask you to leave as it is private property. IF - IF you don't leave and the police arrive you will be charged with Trespassing (assuming you don't run your mouth, be a general ass, etc).
That's it. Carry away. Concealed means concealed, etc., et. al., in adfinitum, and all that jazz.
[Coffee]
Colorado statutes clearly state that to prohibit the concealed carry of weapons on a premises ALL entrances to said premises must be controlled by metal detectors.
To prohibit the open carrying of weapons ALL entrances to the location must be posted to clearly prohibit OPEN CARRY of weapons.
From what you said in your post, Flatirons has signs up to dissuade people from bringing weapons on the premises. According to Colorado State law, the signs don't mean shit. IF - IF you are caught legally carrying a concealed weapon the most they can do is ask you to leave as it is private property. IF - IF you don't leave and the police arrive you will be charged with Trespassing (assuming you don't run your mouth, be a general ass, etc).
That's it. Carry away. Concealed means concealed, etc., et. al., in adfinitum, and all that jazz.
All the stuff in your post is correct except the first sentence. ANY store can prohibit carry of any kind on their property. It's THEIR property. As far as CCW on the premises, all they can do is ask you to leave, and if you don't, you can be charged for trespassing; as was already stated.
If you want to not leave when told, for the reason of carrying a gun, you're dreaming if you think that trespassing is the worst you'll fair when the cops show up though.
gosh I can't read, and no one has come up to me and asked if I was carrying a concealed weapon. but if Superman was there he'd bust me with his X-Ray vision.
gnihcraes
03-30-2009, 10:57
I think flatirons mall is staff all times with broomfield police, go find one of them and ask... I know one of the mall officers there, he should be able to give you a good answer. Don't be carrying when you go though...
Red_Chili
03-30-2009, 11:41
No need to ask. Might want to print this out though.
http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/18-12-214.asp
I've carried there, i'll carry the next time i find myself there as well. If someone makes me and asks me to leave, i will do so at that point.
CONCEALED carry :)
I know one of the mall officers there, he should be able to give you a good answer.
You're joking right? HAHA
gnihcraes
03-30-2009, 13:08
You're joking right? HAHA
about the good answer or knowing someone there... or both? ha.
The good answers part. I can't even count how many times I've been given bad info from police officers. However, I CAN count the times I've gotten good info, because I make an effort to remember.
The1andOnlyKC
03-30-2009, 15:18
I like to CONCEAL carry......
edit to add: Buy good carry gear, you wont jack with your stuff and nobody will ever know.
theGinsue
03-30-2009, 20:29
I don't have my CCW yet and want to make sure I'm clear on this issue as well. I agree with the CONCEALED and CARRY portions of CCW, but I don't want to carry (even concealed) where I'm not allowed to. So, I'm going to play the Devils Advocate here.
Based on the link provided to the CBI CCW Carry Restrictions, I question the validity to carry on posted "no carry" private property based on:
(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.
Wouldn't this seem to imply that owners of private property retain the right to restrict the carry of firearms, including CCW by simply placing a sign at the entrances? As real property owners, posting a sign indicating they are exercising their right to restrict firearms in-totale?
(6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.
It appears, based on the text, that this statute ONLY applies to temporary emergency permits and not to standard issue CCW permits.
Help me out guys. What am I missing?
i've carried there multiple times. i enter through the sporting goods store, there is no sign. :)
My understanding is that the owners/lessors of any private property may restrict or prohibit weapons of any kind, not just firearms. If you choose to ignore their wishes, they can ask you to leave. If you choose not to leave, then you may be charged with Trespassing in the 3rd degree (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=52d813ec.5ae3c75.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2718-4-504%27%5D). The inclusion of emergency permits in (6) is inclusionary, and does not exclude permits issued under 18-12-203 (http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-frame.htm&l=query&iid=52d813ec.5ae3c75.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2718-12-203%27%5D).
I don't want to carry (even concealed) where I'm not allowed to.
There's carrying where it's not legal, and then there's carrying where it's not wanted. Big difference.
I'm glad to see you digging in and figuring out what is and isn't allowed. There are plenty of people here in Colorado who will try to get you to voluntarily limit your rights through the use of aggressive behavior or questionable statements as to legality.
An example of the first (get you to voluntarily limit your rights through the use of aggressive behavior) might be you open-carrying legally, and the police bump you and make comments about brandishing or disturbing the peace or [whatever] when your pistol has been riding undisturbed in its holster the entire time. (A little check into the boards to "dissuade" you.) An example of the second would be, oh, the Boulder County Open Space signs that seemingly prohibit all firearms but which have no force of law regarding concealed carry. They won't put that on the signs, though.
A company can post a sign restricting anything they want. They can put up a sign that says, "NO HATS!" What do you think would happen if you walked in there with a hat on?
theGinsue
03-31-2009, 21:56
Great responses. Thanks for the input. I have no problem concealed carrying where it's not wanted, only to leave if asked just so long as I don't violate any "force of law" issue.
jj-enterprises
04-01-2009, 09:58
They post no carry. See this web site from RMGO
http://www.rmgo.org//merchant/merchant_listing.shtml
Although I do not like NO CCW policy at some private property/business, I do honor it.
It is their property/store.
I will just go do my business somewhere else.
http://www.rmgo.org//merchant/merchant_listing.shtml
Haven't done any business with those businesses listed on that website, except:
Costco and Level(3) communications in the past.
I am planning to not renew Costco membership.
radiuswood
06-24-2013, 22:29
All the stuff in your post is correct except the first sentence. ANY store can prohibit carry of any kind on their property. It's THEIR property. As far as CCW on the premises, all they can do is ask you to leave, and if you don't, you can be charged for trespassing; as was already stated.
If you want to not leave when told, for the reason of carrying a gun, you're dreaming if you think that trespassing is the worst you'll fair when the cops show up though.
Actually you are mostly incorrect in your post. With the exception of Nordstroms, all stores are controlled by the mall. They lease the space to tenants, and tenants must follow mall rules, except Nordstroms. I worked at the mall for a year next to Nordstroms and found this out after watching two shoplifters be chased through the mall to the entrance of Nordstoms. Mall security officers are not allowed to enter because Nordstroms owns the property. There is no other store at the mall that owns their property.
hurley842002
06-24-2013, 22:50
Whooa, post resurrection!! To the OP (if he's even still around), I carry everywhere except where prohibited by LAW. If I see a no firearms sign, I will certainly honor the property owners wishes, and take my business elsewhere. Fortunately I pretty much NEVER see signs, and I surely don't go looking for them. Never understood why people go out of there way to find folks that ignore your right to personal protection....
Flatiron crossing is owned by Macerich REIT.
Dillard's (NYSE: DDS) sold majority of stake to (Macerich), and they sold some to GI during recession. They bought em back.
Most of department stores are better off leasing or putting their physical stores as Real Estate Investment Trust in order to make their physical property more liquid.
DDS and Sears Holding Corp are one of the big retailers who does this.
However, DDS does own Twin Peak mall property in Longmont. Seems like Longmont developers tries to rip off DDS for paying huge discount. Although their bias articles is saying they are trying to pay 70% premium relative to what DDS paid for from DECADES AGO......
BTW, I believe DDS in Flatiron have their own security. If I recall, it was securitas.
Actually you are mostly incorrect in your post. With the exception of Nordstroms, all stores are controlled by the mall. They lease the space to tenants, and tenants must follow mall rules, except Nordstroms. I worked at the mall for a year next to Nordstroms and found this out after watching two shoplifters be chased through the mall to the entrance of Nordstoms. Mall security officers are not allowed to enter because Nordstroms owns the property. There is no other store at the mall that owns their property.
Actually you are mostly incorrect in your post. With the exception of Nordstroms, all stores are controlled by the mall. They lease the space to tenants, and tenants must follow mall rules, except Nordstroms. I worked at the mall for a year next to Nordstroms and found this out after watching two shoplifters be chased through the mall to the entrance of Nordstoms. Mall security officers are not allowed to enter because Nordstroms owns the property. There is no other store at the mall that owns their property.
Sounds like the property owner makes the rules to me. My point still stands.
Good thread. I try to not do business with any vendor who doesn't support my right to protect myself & my family...that being said, I will always carry concealed. These BS "No Firearms" signs are one more reason that open-carry is a bunch of shit. Thanks, have a super day.
Actually you are mostly incorrect in your post. With the exception of Nordstroms, all stores are controlled by the mall. They lease the space to tenants, and tenants must follow mall rules, except Nordstroms. I worked at the mall for a year next to Nordstroms and found this out after watching two shoplifters be chased through the mall to the entrance of Nordstoms. Mall security officers are not allowed to enter because Nordstroms owns the property. There is no other store at the mall that owns their property.
Wow after almost 3 years? Hell and I thought I was slow at responding ;)
Sent from my Otterbox Defended Tactical iPhone using High Capacity "Clips".
hurley842002
06-27-2013, 18:05
Wow after almost 3 years? Hell and I thought I was slow at responding ;)
Sent from my Otterbox Defended Tactical iPhone using High Capacity "Clips".
Oh no, you are still slow, this has been in "walking thread" status for three days now, you'd have already been bitten sir, lol.
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