View Full Version : Used Car Dealers
What the f*ck is up with these assholes these days. I WANT a car, I don't NEED a car. I've been looking at some cars and I email the dealer from the ad THEY placed on Autotrader, I saw the AVERTISED price and that is why I was intetested. When they email me back and I go look at and drive the car and ask the price it goes up $3-5k. Now none of the cars were at too good to be true prices, they were fair and I thought that they were good starting prices to negotiate. When the price jumps up and I call them on it and walk out they are all surprised. These have been little lots and big dealers, f*ck these guys, seriously are people these days that damned stupid to just go along with it? I hate buying cars, its such a damned pain in the ass.
Rooskibar03
12-19-2013, 23:00
Here's the deal with online car pricing as it applies to pre owned. We all use the same software that shows us all the cars for sale like ours at any given time. This normally creates a race to the bottom as you can show a list of the cars and your price as lowest.
On the flip side when you have the only one around or miles, colors or options no one else does you raise the price. The market is fluid and car prices don't always go down. I spike prices sometimes to drag out the online lurkers just to initiate contact. We can tell how many people are looking a specific car, where they are and how many times often they are on our site.
I happen to work for a brand that draws a lot of lookers and dreamers to our inventory, but I also have a pretty solid group of repeat shoppers who just watch my inventory only to give me shit when I raise a price, and if it gets you in the door or on the phone, it worked.
What kind of vehicle you looking for? Happy to help if I can.
kidicarus13
12-19-2013, 23:11
Buying a new or used vehicle is one of my least favorite things to do ...ever. I'll go to the dentist twice a month, just don't make me buy a vehicle from a salesman.
My least favorite thing is to buy/sell a vehicle. I don't care it is 458 italia, McLaren, or even a SLS AMG.
Small dealership usually will have everything ready when you email/call them with VIN, Price, Stock#, and etc. However, big dealership are tend to be little unorganized due to high volume of traffic. I've usually dealt with smaller franchise dealership on weekdays. It went real smooth. I would try to avoid those late 70s or early 80s type of operation dealership (dealing doug, some domestic dealerships). They are huge mess.
IF you had a specific stock number at certain advertised price, but if they do not honor it, I would definitely call the management. IF that does not work, DORA and Lakewood is next step.
Luckily, ALL the dealership I've been to within 10 years always honor the price of ad and/or lower, but I guess there are still some shady 70s dealerships type of places out there.
Speaking of dentist and MD's office. I would rather buy 10 cars at a shady dealership than go to dentist or some shady hospital.
Hospitals are worse than shady attorneys or sales people. At least I know what I will be paying for upfront. Hospital thinks they are monopoly and knows they are selling service which are inelastic. They will do the service and ask 150 premium on some kind of testing which cost fraction in different places.
No wonder people are going out of country for "medical vacation package" at a discount price for far superior service (from experience).
TheBelly
12-20-2013, 10:08
I bought a new car last year. It was easy like Sunday morning.
i called places and told them that I was going to be at their dealership IF they had the lowest price (on the new car). I had the 5 things that I needed in a new car, and anything else was just extra. I was very upfront about it:
1. what is your lowest price out the door? All taxes, reg. fees, anything you need, I don't care about how it gets broken up, just give me the price.
2. here is the lowest price that I've found so far, can you beat it? I'm going to tell everyone else about these prices, so I have no loyalty to any dealership. None. My loyalty is to my pocketbook. If you want my business, have the lowest price. Period.
3. I'm securing my own financing. No, I don't want you to check what rates you can get me. I want to spend as little time as possible in your dealership.
4. When I say I'm going to be there, I'm going to be there. I don't fart around with these things. I won't pull your chain, so don't try to play with mine.
After all that, I got the brand new car that I wanted for a whopping $250 over dealer cost. I spent a total of about 1.5 - 2 hours in the dealership. Most of that time was spent waiting for them to detail the car and remove their dealership logo from it.
yes, I was a prick, but I got what I want and I didn't have to deal with sales folk who were shady. On a side note, I will not ever buy a vehicle from the VW dealer at the auto plaza in Colorado Springs. Those were the worst kind of sales folk. Then they said, "we'll, that's our bottom price, out the door." Their price was 3k over msrp. Douche-nuggets.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 10:30
I don't mind dealership's. Its a jacked up sort of entertainment for me. I sold for a while and understand what they're trying to do so I just play their game with them. If they want to work payment and can finance through my credit union, that's fine, I'll just work payment harder than they do.
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After all that, I got the brand new car that I wanted for a whopping $250 over dealer cost. I spent a total of about 1.5 - 2 hours in the dealership. Most of that time was spent waiting for them to detail the car and remove their dealership logo from it.
When I sold used cars, the sales manager would go into the system, change the dealer cost, then print the list out with the new number and show the customer.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 10:38
When I sold used cars, the sales manager would go into the system, change the dealer cost, then print the list out with the new number and show the customer.
When I sold, we weren't even told the actual price of the vehicle. Everything was mid this or low that.
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Oh yeah, the sales people weren't usually told the price at all.
Thebelly: I'm not trying to say you didn't get a good deal. I have no room to talk. I was a puss the last time I bought a car. I got worked over and KNEW it, and still let it happen. I could have just walked out and didn't.
last time i was shopping i would Write down the offer and stock number on the back of my business card and hand it to the salesman. I'd wait long enough for a cup of coffee for an answer. After that I was on my way.
I don't like the let me go talk to my manager routine.
TheWeeze
12-20-2013, 11:02
It's more about the salesman than the dealership in my experience. If you get the shady salesman then you're going to have a bad time.
Dealerships suck but it is what it is. If you go in NEEDING a car, you're probably going to get screwed. If you go in with the mentality that you don't have to go home with a car, it tips the scales in your favor a bit more. When I bought my truck, I told them, I have $X down and this is my monthly max payment. Make it happen or I won't buy it. After three tries of "Well, we can almost get you there. How about this amount?" and me saying "I told you. That amount or I walk." they finally made it all work. I got a lower than average price for what I bought and I'm very happy with it.
funkymonkey1111
12-20-2013, 11:37
what kind of car are you looking for?
TheBelly
12-20-2013, 12:17
When I sold used cars, the sales manager would go into the system, change the dealer cost, then print the list out with the new number and show the customer.
I tracked the VIN to the factory. I know how much the dealer paid.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 12:25
I tracked the VIN to the factory. I know how much the dealer paid.
I believe he's talking used so they're playing with the auction cost or cash value assigned to the vehicle when it was traded for.
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TheBelly
12-20-2013, 12:31
I believe he's talking used so they're playing with the auction cost or cash value assigned to the vehicle when it was traded for.
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Ahhh...
I checked the dated and signed invoice against what I researched from the factory dealer cost.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 12:34
Its a lot easier to manipulate numbers when dealing with a used car.
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TheBelly
12-20-2013, 12:52
Its a lot easier to manipulate numbers when dealing with a used car.
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Hopefully for both the dealer and the buyer.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 12:57
It depends on how close it is the end of the month. Hah.
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I often think my desire to drive my vehicles for their entire lifespan stems from my hatred for the car buying experience.
generalmeow
12-20-2013, 13:29
Ever see the movie "The Goods"? I knew a guy just like that main character. Even better, probably.
When I was working in sales in college my company would fly this guy in from Canada every once in a while for big shows. He was a really impressive liar. Whatever you're selling, he'd sell it, no problem. I would make 5 or 6 sales a month ($300-400ish commission). He would sell 60 in a weekend. I don't think he even knew the product very well. "Just let me read the brochures for 5 minutes, and then stand back". He would probably work 5 weekends a year, and make $100k
He was just a sleazy salesman who would tell you anything you want to hear, and people loved it. And we'd often pick him up at jail in the morning for whatever trouble he got into the night before and bring him back to sell more (seriously). Me, the honest guy, I couldn't sell shit.
Once I met a really good looking cougar at a show, and we talked for a while, and she was super flirty. I knew she was interested in me, and it was going somewhere. And then he barged into our conversation, and he went home with her that very night. And the next day he said "Oh man, she really liked you. She kept talking about you and how good looking you were". That is salesmanship. His sales skills were so powerful, that it completely overrode any chance I had.
SamuraiCO
12-20-2013, 13:57
I used USAA car buying service for my Tundra this summer. My father was military so I have used USAA for my car and home insurance for years. I was looking at a 2010 at a dealership but when feeling them out there would be no wiggle room on the price. They wanted 5k more than I was willing to pay for used. I called USAA and they found me a couple of options new and used. When the salesman emailed me asking if I wanted to see the used one I stated a new one was onky 4k more would they take 35k for their used one he said no so I bought the new one at the negotiated price through USAA. In and out in under 2 hours.
newracer
12-20-2013, 13:57
I had a horrible experience at a dealership that is now out of business. Stopped there on a whim to look at a Jeep. Took it for a drive while they looked at my wife's car to assess the trade in value. When we got back they wouldn't give me the keys back so we could leave. Instead they kept bringing over the next higher manager to try and find out what it would take to get me in the Jeep. I repeatedly explained to each one we were just looking and not anywhere ready to purchase a vehicle. This went on for at least an hour. When the fourth or fifth "manager" came over and stuck out his hand I yelled "Unless you have my fucking keys I don't want anything to do with you!" He promptly went and got my keys and we finally left.
To contrast the last vehicle we bought we got from Boulder Nissan. My wife saw a jeep online they had that she liked. She emailed them stating what she would pay and what she wanted for her car in trade. The salesman called her and said they could make it work. We scheduled a time for the next morning to go drive it. When we got there the jeep was right out front, warmed up and ready to go. When we got back all the paper work was ready, they actually offered a better deal than originally discussed. Signed the documents and we were done.
My least favorite thing is to buy/sell a vehicle. I don't care it is 458 italia, McLaren, or even a SLS AMG.
LOL, I see what you did there.
I don't trust them and I don't play their game. There are a large percentage of car dealers and sales staff who will screw you to make a buck. As long as you know that, do your homework, and plan accordingly, it works out...know the value, know how to access the condition, and be prepared to walk. DO NOT feel as though you have to buy the vehicle. You don't need it and you owe them nothing!
TheBelly
12-20-2013, 15:41
I had a horrible experience at a dealership that is now out of business. Stopped there on a whim to look at a Jeep. Took it for a drive while they looked at my wife's car to assess the trade in value. When we got back they wouldn't give me the keys back so we could leave. Instead they kept bringing over the next higher manager to try and find out what it would take to get me in the Jeep. I repeatedly explained to each one we were just looking and not anywhere ready to purchase a vehicle. This went on for at least an hour. When the fourth or fifth "manager" came over and stuck out his hand I yelled "Unless you have my fucking keys I don't want anything to do with you!" He promptly went and got my keys and we finally left.
Dude......... I don't blame you one bit. I probably would have just called the fuzz:
"Hey, yeah, I'm sitting at this car dealer, and they are detaining me illegally."
I honestly lose my mind when folks pull that crap with me.
Lakewood Ford used to throw your keys onto the roof, or put your car up against a tree and burn out the clutch while you were on a test drive.
Special place reserved in the fiery pit of Hell for used car salesmen.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 16:17
Lakewood Ford used to throw your keys onto the roof, or put your car up against a tree and burn out the clutch while you were on a test drive.
I worked with a guy that sold at Chesrown Chevrolet that had some amazing stories. Throwing keys on the roof was just standard practice.
Special place reserved in the fiery pit of Hell for used car salesmen.
There are some real dickheads out there for sure but I, as well as most of the guys that I worked with, were decent.
What would they tell you happened to your keys when you came back? And what was the point of doing that? So they "lost" your keys and make you buy a new car?
*edit* are we talking about the roof of the building or of your car?
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 16:31
What would they tell you happened to your keys when you came back?
Lost them, now let's go see what kind of payment we can get you while we look for them.
PugnacAutMortem
12-20-2013, 16:35
Lost them, now let's go see what kind of payment we can get you while we look for them.
This is really good to know actually. I pray for the poor soul that ever tries this on my wife or myself.
I also now will never go on a test drive while they "evaluate" my car ever again.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 16:37
This is really good to know actually. I pray for the poor soul that ever tries this on my wife or myself.
I also now will never go on a test drive while they "evaluate" my car ever again.
When I traded in my Jeep, I gave them my spare. They tried to play the keep away game with my keys, I pulled out my actual key set and you could see the sales guy deflate.
And, don't EVER get you're vehicle serviced from a dealership. Its always best to find a local shop that specializes in that particular brand!
Rooskibar03
12-20-2013, 17:06
I've been selling cars for 11 years and heard the story of the lost key thing and never once have seen it happen or know someone who actually has done it.
Now I actually did loose a customers keys once, but it was for the car they were on the way to pick up.
I'm looking for a Mustang or some kind of performance car. I looked at a Camaro and a BMW, I would like to keep my truck or sell it myself because screw the trade in game.
I never personally saw anything that shady in my very short stint as a car salesmen. There were salesmen that were just all around trash for sure. One guy told me about having a co-signer "sign" for the car in the back room, when that person was actually in jail. That same general manager I spoke of came back from a test drive of a potential trade in vehicle and told me he went 60 mph down a side street and stood on the brakes and got the car sideways before coming to a stop. Other than that, the utter trash of the sales people only usually extended to their own personal lives.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 17:28
I've heard of a salesman selling someone's trade in before it was actually traded in. The worst I saw was a promotion company's guy selling a 2002 Z28 Camaro to an 80 year old man ($8k gross profit) and then the old man coming in the next day and trading in the Camaro on a Toyota Solara ($6k gross profit). Sales guy made $3500 on the oblivious old man in less than 24 hours.
Medved used to mark up the used H1 Hummers around $17k. lol
Rooskibar03
12-20-2013, 20:21
I'm looking for a Mustang or some kind of performance car. I looked at a Camaro and a BMW, I would like to keep my truck or sell it myself because screw the trade in game.
How about a 2012 Roush State 3 Mustang with only 1700 miles? I traded for it yesterday. It's super nice
Rooskibar03
12-20-2013, 20:23
I've heard of a salesman selling someone's trade in before it was actually traded in. The worst I saw was a promotion company's guy selling a 2002 Z28 Camaro to an 80 year old man ($8k gross profit) and then the old man coming in the next day and trading in the Camaro on a Toyota Solara ($6k gross profit). Sales guy made $3500 on the oblivious old man in less than 24 hours.
Newsflash, that's what we do. We buy at wholesale and sell at retail. It's a tried and true method for operating a business, unless of course you like working for free
Buying and selling used cars is a gamble. Pay to much for a car, find out it needs a ton of work to resale and you're looking at a minimum return or a loss. Yes we make some big deals, we also loose big money on some. It's all about averages.
blacklabel
12-20-2013, 20:37
Newsflash, that's what we do. We buy at wholesale and sell at retail. It's a tried and true method for operating a business, unless of course you like working for free
Buying and selling used cars is a gamble. Pay to much for a car, find out it needs a ton of work to resale and you're looking at a minimum return or a loss. Yes we make some big deals, we also loose big money on some. It's all about averages.
Newsflash, I was selling for that dealership when that happened. I made some great paychecks using that tried and true method. I've also had rough pay periods when my sales manager brought complete trash back from the auction.
Its like any other negotiation, who ever has the most information going in wins. Doesn't matter if its a car, gun or house. Know what you are willing to pay, and if you can't get it for that.... WALK AWAY. That last part is the hardest for most people.
Doesn't matter if its a car, gun or house. Know what you are willing to pay, and if you can't get it for that.... WALK AWAY. That last part is the hardest for most people.
I had a front row seat to this play back in '05 when hurricane Wilma killed three vehicles owned by a friend of mine in Key West, FL. He's a salesman, a rather successful one at that, but not on the car business. At any rate, three of us drove up to Fort Lauderdale with the intent to buy three brand new cars in one afternoon.....not so much an "intent", as 'we're headed back to KW tonight with three new cars', one Benz and two Rovers, simply replacing those that died at the hands of saltwater (USAA wrote him a check for all three even before they were actually dead, the USAA people said that within a month the saltwater would kill the electronics in all of them so go buy new ones....sadly I'm not USAA eligible).
We started at the first dealership where my friend offered the pinstripe-suited salesman $X for the first car, take it or leave it, but $X is it, not a penny more. After much theatrics on the part of the salesman, they agree to it. 30 minutes later they had the final paperwork and it came to $XX,007.34. The dealership was adamant about the extra $7.34. My friend the salesman stood up, and calmly walked out - off to the next dealer, no arguing with the sales staff at the dealership. He had the time to kill, it was 1pm and we only needed to be back to KW in time for him to drive his kids to school the next morning.
The second dealership we went to received an abbreviated synopsis of what happened at the first dealership prior to being offered the same amount for the same vehicle. They came in at $XX,000.00, that car was bought and then two more were procured that afternoon in the same manner.
The first dealership was flabbergasted that someone would walk over $7. I quietly told them on the way out that my friend would have walked had it been $1. I hate the haggle of car buying (or anything else for that matter), some love it, my friend the salesman is completely without emotion when it comes to the process. I've hired him to buy boats for me in the past and have told him I'm flying him to CO the next time I need to buy a car. We'll have dinner, he can deal with the car salesman, and I won't have to dip my toe in that scene.
I grew up in Asia where haggling over price is not only the norm, it's expected. I despised it then, and can't stand it now.
Jeffrey Lebowski
12-20-2013, 23:07
my friend the salesman is completely without emotion when it comes to the process.
This is key.
My wife takes everything so personally. Houses and cars are very difficult for her.
Before you walk away, make sure you didn't fill in the credit app (cash deal doesn't apply).
HoneyBadger
12-21-2013, 01:04
I'm going through this process right now as well and I hate it. I don't need financing, I don't want to play the games. So far, neither seller has been able to meet my needs. I've been taken to the cleaners before at a dealership, so I'm more than willing to walk this time around.
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