Who wants to be a part of my car buying experience?

[HoneyBadger]

Today I finally decided that I've had enough of my truck: Bad gas mileage, even worse turning radius, and a much worse time trying to park it in my garage. I want something smaller, with better MPGs, easier to drive, safe, capable for reasonable offroad adventures, and capable of fitting a carseat or two in the back. I want something different and I'm ready for change.

I've been doing research for about 2 months now and while I was previously looking at Subarus (as some may recall), I decided to take a look at the 2014 Nissan Xterra. On paper, it fulfills all of my needs for a car. The only thing I wasn't sure about was how it actually felt to drive one. I hadn't seen one up close yet.

I have previously paid too much for a car because I needed a car that day and I was not at all prepared for the car buying adventure. I got taken for a ride and probably paid $2-3k more than I should have for it. I am still bitter about it. Today I went to the stealership (Woodmen Nissan) and walked in with a plan in mind. I was not going to leave the lot with a new car under any circumstance. I want to play the game a little and see what kind of offer I can get down to. Here's the details

I want a 2014 ProX4 (5 speed automatic) with the tow package. MSRP is about $32K
I have a 2001 Silverado Extended Cab LS with 120k miles in KBB "excellent" condition. It has a brush guard and high-end toneau cover, along with a rear "airbag" suspension system and a brand new upgraded audio with an underseat subwoofer. Interior and exterior are in "like new" condition. No rips, tears, scratches, dents etc. Never been in an accident, etc. I expect that I could sell it private party for $9-10k

I spent about 90 mins at the dealership. Several times they asked for my truck keys, to which I politely requested that the keys remain in my hands, but I would show them anything they wanted to see (thanks to the horror stories in another thread). About 45 mins was spent driving the Xterra and test fitting Little HoneyBadger's carseat in it. I told them upfront that I preferred to take care of my own financing and that I wasn't going to make a purchase today.

In the end, I gave them my name and email address (one that I hand out to collect junk mail). I gave them limited information about where I work and where I live (although I allowed them to make a copy of my DL before the test drive, the address on my DL is out of date on the front). I made myself clear that with the trade in value of my truck, they could take into consideration my military service, my USAA membership, my Costco membership, or my Cheyenne Mountain Zoo membership if they wanted, but by the end of the week I wanted their best price. At one point I threw out the number $21k, but that might be a bit ambitious.

Bottom line is this: I don't have any requirement to buy a new vehicle. I just wanted to see what kind of year-end offer they could make me. If they can offer me anything under 22k, I will strongly consider taking it. If they refuse to go under 24k, I'll walk away and hang on to my truck for a while.

If you awesome folks have any advice, inputs, suggestions or general harassment, I'd love to hear it! I will post any correspondence I have with the sales staff at Woodmen Nissan as it comes in. [Beer]

[mcjhr]

Did you look into Toyota Tacoma?
Sounds to me like you got your ducks in a row.

[rtr]

Listen to this http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/513/129-cars

[Rooskibar03]

Are you looking for a 21k price on the truck itself or an OTD price?

A few things come to mind. Nothing personal just thoughts from an insider.

Your truck. Nothing with 120k miles is excellent in the eyes of a dealer. The extra stuff on your truck while nice adds no value or consideration to a dealer. Sell the parts you can seperate, you're not getting extra for them. Not knowing cab and motor I can't look up for sure but auction prices are 4-6k. KBB, edmunds, NADA are Irrelevant. They don't spit out check and have no bearing on what a dealer will pay you. Used car values are set on current market trends. With a few mouse clicks we can tell how many of that car are on market, how long they are taking to sell, and for how much.

Private party you may have luck, especially being a truck in winter. If you want a dealer to give all they can for your trade, inflate your payoff. Dealers will always try to chase the payoff.

Don't be opposed to dealer financing. 1 there is some good money out there, two there might be incentives tied to financing. You can always have USAA re-fi later. (And don't let dealer tell you you can't, no prepayment penalty)


The new car. Again not knowing if your price was OTD with trade or just for the truck. That said, there isn't crap for markup in that truck. You are also trying to get a deal on a 14. Deals on are the 13s, there's still lots of time to move 14s. Check the Edmunds incentive page for rebates or cash, right now there's a whopping $500 dealer cash on 14s and less than 2k markup. Asian Import brands have crap for markup, if you want massive discounts shop domestic.

[HoneyBadger]

Are you looking for a 21k price on the truck itself or an OTD price?
OTD. Is that unreasonable?

[Rooskibar03]

OTD. Is that unreasonable?

Probably not to far off. See my above modified post.

[HoneyBadger]

Probably not to far off. See my above modified post.
Thanks for the good insight. Your "inside advice" is exactly what I was hoping for. I'll see what they come back with about the trade in value for the silverado.

The only reason I was looking at the 2014 model was because it comes standard with heated seats and the 2013 didn't even have it as an option. I'm sick of having a cold keister! [ROFL1] The online prices I saw for the two model years were almost identical. If they can offer me a much better price on a 2013, then I wouldn't hesitate to take it.

@mcjhr: I did look at Tacos and I like them, but I think the Xterra offers a better feature set for the money. I don't need a pickup truck anymore.

[KS63]

Better luck for a "deal" on a 2013. $8K under MSRP for a 2014 is a pipe dream. You may not even get that price for a 2013. Like Rooskibar said, imports generally have less markup from Invoice than Domestic. Perhaps a lease return model that has a maintenance record with the dealership. Yes, it's a used vehicle, but at least you won't be taking the huge depreciation in the first year of ownership. Good luck.

[colorider]

Was going to give advice but Rooskibar hit every nail on the head. Be prepared to cry when they tell you your new sound system is worthless to them. Probably tell you that the sub under the seat is a big minus for resale rather then a plus. I sold a Yukon Denali a while back that I put a very nice sound system in. The dealer (who is a good friend) told me to yank the subs and the amps because if I don't, they will and then I'm left with nothing. They had zero interest in the system. I yanked all the stuff out and they rewired up the head unit to the speakers.
Good luck on the transaction. Buying new cars can be a major stress.

[HoneyBadger]

Better luck for a "deal" on a 2013. $8K under MSRP for a 2014 is a pipe dream. You may not even get that price for a 2013. Like Rooskibar said, imports generally have less markup from Invoice than Domestic. Perhaps a lease return model that has a maintenance record with the dealership. Yes, it's a used vehicle, but at least you won't be taking the huge depreciation in the first year of ownership. Good luck.
Did you see the part where I'm trading in my truck?

[Sharpienads]

I don't need a pickup truck anymore.

Famous last words...

[HoneyBadger]

Was going to give advice but Rooskibar hit every nail on the head. Be prepared to cry when they tell you your new sound system is worthless to them. Probably tell you that the sub under the seat is a big minus for resale rather then a plus. I sold a Yukon Denali a while back that I put a very nice sound system in. The dealer (who is a good friend) told me to yank the subs and the amps because if I don't, they will and then I'm left with nothing. They had zero interest in the system. I yanked all the stuff out and they rewired up the head unit to the speakers.
Good luck on the transaction. Buying new cars can be a major stress.
Thanks. I can certainly pull the sub and use it elsewhere if it won't add anything to the trade value. I could take off the tonneau and brush guard too I guess, but they'd probably only be worth $500 combined to sell on Craigslist.

[funkymonkey1111]

Try your costco membership auto buying feature

[Rooskibar03]

Try your costco membership auto buying feature

Costco is ok but not the end all. The one upside to Costco, at least when I was with a brand that accepted them, was you had to include the dealer fee into the Costco price which can be 300-600. The downside is they generally won't go lower off Costco cause it's supposed to me the "best" price.

IIRC USAA also has a buying program and I think they tell you the price upfront. Swing by a Carmax with your truck and get a bid from them. They buy anything and typically have a good pulse on the market. They will give you a written offer on the truck and you keep that I'm your back pocket durning negotiations.

Lastly, try the Internet department. Skip the email and call and ask for the Internet manager. In a lot of cases they have the flexibility to work better offers out of the gate. It's not likely to be more then you ultimately could get off on the floor, but it will probably be a lot less hassle.

Don't know which dealer you went to and I don't know much about local Nissan market but Autonation would be my last stop. Corporate store, you'll get the most run around there, but possibly the lowest price if you're willing to fight. (IMHO I'd pay a little more not to dick around with it) never herd good things about Larry Miller. Tyans has been around forever, probably a crap shoot. Had some friends buy from empire and it was good but that was a long time ago.

[Great-Kazoo]

Thanks. I can certainly pull the sub and use it elsewhere if it won't add anything to the trade value. I could take off the tonneau and brush guard too I guess, but they'd probably only be worth $500 combined to sell on Craigslist.


It's $500 more then you'll get from the dealer.

[dogduster]

Why buy a new vehicle??? If your not in a hurry and don't mind doing a little leg work you could probably buy a very low mileage vehicle at below the the price you are shooting for. It just depends on your money situation and if you qualify for a low interest loan. I have purchased several cars in my life time with under 10K miles at around half the retail value. My last purchase was a 4 dr. Jeep Wrangler with 3500 miles for $18000.00. I did have to look a while for it. Keep in mind if you are purchasing a 2013, it is already a year old according to book value.

Good luck!!

[Irving]

The lot techs will probably steal the subwoofer the first night on the lot anyway.

[Brian]

FWIW: This is the type of thing you can get from USAA - this is a 4x4 Pro Auto with the "Nevada Tow" package added. I didn't spend much time playing with the options. It used to be a great option - now I'm not sure what the difference is between USAA's option and the other companies that TrueCar provides back-end services for. But the price they give you online you can walk into the dealership and they were required to sell you the car for that price with no BS.

It's nice as it shows you the bell curve of what people paid for the options you selected, and lists any incentives, etc. you should be eligible for.



http://i.imgur.com/2IMTQxj.jpg

[Holger Danske]

Go in the last Sat of the month. If they arent making numbers then the dealers may be willing to deal. Start with your low price and see how far down you can talk them down. If dont like the final price then walk and try again next month.

[Madeinhb]

Also depending on price, seat heaters might be a lot. I got an auto start. 10 minutes and inside is 75 degrees.

[RblDiver]

Somewhat related, yet somewhat not: I went to purchase a car earlier this year. We found (somewhat accidentally) a dealer who was super nice, and said his passion was fixing cars more than selling them. However, what he did was take us to the dealer auction where we found a great car for quite a bit less than most places were selling (I think it was ~11k, normally selling at least 14-15 iirc). It was a 2012 with ~20k miles on it, had been a rental and was in great shape. He sold it to us for that 11k plus a few hundred dollars. All in all he was a really great guy.

If you can find someone willing to do something like that (take you to the dealer auction...not technically supposed to but *shrug*), you can find a much better deal. We were lucky in finding this on the first auction we went to, rather than going back multiple times, but even so it could be worth it.

[sniper7]

I imagine they would offer you 6-7500 for your truck. Pull the accessories off it and sell them on Craigslist.

Trade in also is a benefit because it reduces the tax you would pay on the new vehicle. So really if you got 7500 trade in, it would be equivalent to selling it outright for 8300ish depending on what your sales tax would be and you Dont deal with the hassle.

2013 vehicles will give you the best discount. If you Dont get one during a Christmas sale or new years sale, wait till memorial day and they have great sales then.

I would wait until 12/30 or 12/31 and go in then to see what the end of year deals are and ask them if the new years prices are out yet.

Getting $$ is harder than getting them to include extras like a maintenance plan or extended warranty or tinting or paint protection or interior treatment or clear bra or dealer added accessories. Those have a major mark up on them and they are more willing to give you those extras.

[Irving]

It just occured to me how funny this thread title is. I'm waiting for the "Who wants to be a part of my divorce experience" and "Who wants to be a part of my back surgery experience" threads. Hahah

[HoneyBadger]

It just occured to me how funny this thread title is. I'm waiting for the "Who wants to be a part of my divorce experience" and "Who wants to be a part of my back surgery experience" threads. Hahah
Be patient, grasshopper. All good things come with time. [ROFL1]

[sroz]

Have you considered a Prius...they're good for the environment you know...[Coffee]

[SideShow Bob]

Just be prepared for the kick in the nuts from the state when you go in to register your new what ever you decide to get.

[T-Giv]

Have you considered a Prius...they're good for the environment you know...[Coffee]

Right up until the moment that the battery craps out and it has to be disposed of!

[T-Giv]

And another thought of mine...I saw someone recommend the USAA car buying experience. I used that when buying my new Jeep back in 2011.

I sat down at the dealership after telling them prior to coming over that I was not up for a BS deal. I said I wanted to be in and out in an hour since pricing was already handled and they could start the paperwork since I was paying cash and had paid my deposit. Long story short I get the paperwork in front of me and the price is 3k higher than the USAA price I had printed out and brought with me to the dealer. I told them straight up that it was the wrong price and I wasn't signing. They gave me the old "Let me talk to the boss" line and came back with a price of 2k higher than the USAA price. I was enraged at this point and told them I was out and that I wanted my deposit back immediately. I started to walk out and they said they would honor the USAA price. I could not believe those shady bastards. On top of that I got treated like shit the rest of the time and I swear they were purposefully taking FOREVER to complete the titling paperwork. It was Centennial Chrysler Jeep by the way. I will never return there!

[HoneyBadger]

Breaking news: they never contacted me. I called the salesman up and he apologized for not getting back to me. He said he would call me back in a little bit with some numbers. An hour later he called me back and made the following offer:

Sell the Xterra for 28500 and give me 5500 trade in value on my truck. Somehow with taxes and fees it comes to 26200 Out The Door.

I laughed.

I told him that I know how much they pay for the Xterra. I know how much my truck is worth, and I know how much profit they can make off my truck. I countered with 21000 and he said he would have to call me back. That was at 4pm and I didn't hear back.

I'm guessing he'll call tomorrow and offer something like 25800 as "the absolute lowest he can go without losing money" or something similar. If they don't get down around 22k, I'm keeping my truck.

[Rooskibar03]

While I feel for your position I'll tell you it's unlikely that numbers gonna come. There just isn't that kind of range in a 30k car. A grand, maybe two and you're all in and come January one your trade value drops and the incentive to dig deep on the new car goes away.

[HoneyBadger]

While I feel for your position I'll tell you it's unlikely that numbers gonna come. There just isn't that kind of range in a 30k car. A grand, maybe two and you're all in and come January one your trade value drops and the incentive to dig deep on the new car goes away.
You don't think they can make an easy couple thousand off my truck?

[HoneyBadger]

You don't think they can make an easy couple thousand off my truck?
If they supposedly accept my truck with a trade in value of 7000, I would think selling it for 9000 would be a piece of cake, no work required on their part.

[Rooskibar03]

You don't think they can make an easy couple thousand off my truck?

Doesnt matter, one has nothing to do with another. Internally the New car department is one store and used another. That's what we do, buy a car to make a return. There is also no guarantee your truck will sell at any kind of return so no it doesn't factor. It's like when people trade a car to us and them get bent out of shape when we list the price for more then we paid, duh.

When I trade for a vehicle I keep the two transactions separate. Here is the price for yours and the price for ours.

And again not knowing you personally, but knowing you're a pretty good guy on here Im not trying to come across as an ass. That said customers need to learn just because they want it doesn't mean they will get it. There is a profit/return/loss calculation for the dealer to factor in. I've told more people in the last week thanks but no thanks and sent them out the door then I care to count. The entire time them trying to rationalize why I should loose money to sell them a car because it's year end. Sorry doesn't work that way, if your business hasn't made the number by now you aren't going to in the 11th hour.

[HoneyBadger]

Doesnt matter, one has nothing to do with another. New car department is like one store and used another. That's what we do, buy a car to make a return. There is also no guarantee your truck will sell at any kind of return so no it doesn't factor. It's like when people trade a car to us and them get bent out of shape when we list the price for more then we paid, duh.

When I trade for a vehicle I keep the two transactions separate. Here is the price for yours and the price for ours.

And again not knowing you personally, but knowing you're a pretty good guy on here Im not trying to come across as an ass. That said customers need to learn just because they want it doesn't mean they will get it. There is a profit/return/loss calculation for the dealer to factor in. I've told more people in the last week thanks but no thanks and sent them out the door then I care to count. The entire time them trying to rationalize why I should loss money to sell them a car because it's year end. Sorry doesn't work that way, if your business hasn't made the number by now you aren't going to in the 11th hour.
Thanks for the honest replies, I really do appreciate it.

Knowing that new and used are basically treated as separates, it makes a lot more sense. Would I be wiser then to just buy from them at their "New" price and worry about selling my truck separately?

[HoneyBadger]

I think I'm going to take my silverado into carmax tomorrow morning since I took the day off from work.

[Rooskibar03]

Thanks for the honest replies, I really do appreciate it.

Knowing that new and used are basically treated as separates, it makes a lot more sense. Would I be wiser then to just buy from them at their "New" price and worry about selling my truck separately?

If you want to get closer to the number you're after I'd say yes. Good idea on the carmax visit.

[RonMexico]

Go to the number 2 Nissan dealer in the state. They will give you a better deal on the xterra if they are neck and neck with the #1 dealer. My friend is the sales manager at a #2dealer and they are giving cash referrals and other things to try and take the lead.

[MED]

Here are my thoughts and experiences. I purchased my new Jeep Liberty CRD in '06 and sold my Dodge because I didn't think I really needed it after I got out of racing. Was I ever wrong; fortunately, I kept the trailer. I finally replaced my truck last month, and I am so happy to have it back so maybe keeping it and buying a less expensive daily driver is a good idea which is what I do. I spent a ton of money buying that Jeep only to lose it to my x in the divorce; I wanted that year because of the Common Rail Diesel; awesome vehicle but I got a fair deal...not a great deal (I walked out of one dealership and got another $1,000 knocked off the price at another place). I could have saved a good chunk of money if I got the last '05 on the lot but there were a couple of issues on the '05s so I passed. It is the only new car I have purchased, and they really are a luxury. I really doubt that I will ever purchase another new car. The first third of that car is profit for the manufacturer and dealer as well as commission for the sales staff. I have no desire to pay any of these people with my pay check especially the sales staff. Another trick if you are buying from a dealer; don't buy in the same county as your residence unless you feel like contributing to the county tax.

If you are patient, you can find what you want for a lot less money. In 1996-7, black Trans Ams with the 6 speed were extremely high demand, and I couldn't find one without a huge mark-up. I finally found a '97 after a year of looking with 3600 miles in April of '97 and I saved about 6-7K on it...I still have it. It is a lot easier to make a deal if you break up the sale. Trading in a vehicle is convenient but you lose money big time on it unless the car you are trading is undesirable and extremely difficult to sale. If you don't want the hassle and you perceive a difficult private sale, then trade it and get the tax savings.

Is your truck a 1500,2500, or 3500? ...which engine? A 5.3 1500 is a lot more difficult to sell then a 2500 with the 6.0. Duramax 2500s and 3500s sell extremely well. When I sold my Dodge, I got $200 more then I paid for it because it was the 2500 with the V10 (before the gas spike). The Dana 60 and 70 in the truck made it desirable to any construction worker or contractor at the time. I had my truck on Craigslist for about a week. Older trucks like a 2001 are generally purchased by construction and trade, but only the 3/4 and 1 tons and they go for a premium. But, to put it in perspective. I spent over a year looking for my new truck, a '01 Dodge Cummins Dually with a Bradford Built bed. I saw these anywhere from 12,500 to 21,000 over the past year and half. I finally got mine for $10,800 with below average miles. I was happy!

[Rooskibar03]

So Badger how'd ya make out?

[Sharpienads]

Carmax isn't a bad gig. When I sold my truck, I took it there first. They gave me what I thought was a lowball offer, but about a month later I ended up selling it private party for the same price they offered. When I went to Carmax, I gave them my keys, the guy there took some info from me, we chitchatted for a few minutes while waiting, and then I got my offer. I told them thanks, but no thanks, and left. It took about 30 minutes.

[HoneyBadger]

Okay there was a lot of drama that I will spare you all, but here's the bottom line:

Apparently, my silverado was worth significantly less than I thought. I went to Carmax and they offered me $5k. I was quite disappointed, but I guess that's what happens when your expectations are unrealistic. Another dealership offered $4500 and a third offered $5500 for trade in.

I went back to woodmen Nissan and I got them down to $25,285 OTD for the 2014 Pro4X with automatic transmission and tow package. They ended up offering me $7300 trade in for my truck (which was better than what TrueCar said my trade in value should be) and an additional $1k rebate. They also took into account special pricing for USAA and who knows what else, but that's the number we got down to. It took 2 trips to the dealership, which I was willing to make, and several phone calls and emails over the course of the last week. It took a bit of time and effort (and some frustration of dealing with car salesmen, no offense Rooskibar03!) but at that price, I honestly don't know how they are making any money. I didn't opt for any extra service plans, warranties or add-ons, in fact the "finance guy" was getting visibly frustrated that I didn't want any of his 100% profit perks.

Funny thing about it - I signed the papers this morning, gave them the title for my truck etc, but I'm still driving the truck for another day or two because they have to ship in the Xterra that I bought. They were going to give me a service loaner, but at 9am on New Years Day, the manager with the keys for the service loaners was nowhere to be found. I feel like this is a little strange and I feel like they are going to somehow trap me into dropping the value of the truck... it seems like a sales ploy to me, but I guess we'll see.

Also, I went to the #2 dealer in town and they wouldn't go below $28k OTD, so I walked. I even showed them the pricing sheet I got from Woodmen Nissan with the $25k number, but they thought it was fake. They called me today to ask if I was still interested and I happily told they guy that I got exactly what I wanted for $25285 OTD. He scoffed and told me to have a happy new year.

Did I do alright?

[blacklabel]

Did I do alright?

That's the one question I don't ask after making a purchase. [LOL]

[mcjhr]

Dude you did excellent! That's a damn nice price. And you're gonna have the vehicle you wanted. Just please don't tell me the xterra is yellow. Pretty plz.

[HoneyBadger]

Dude you did excellent! That's a damn nice price. And you're gonna have the vehicle you wanted. Just please don't tell me the xterra is yellow. Pretty plz.
Hahaaha it's silver. I told them I would do a nasty color if they made me a sweet deal but they just couldn't go any lower on a 2014 model.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Just be prepared for the kick in the nuts from the state when you go in to register your new what ever you decide to get.

^ This is why I refuse to buy a new car now. I thought about it a few years ago but I'd rather fix up and paint up my '99 than pay the extortion rates to register a new car.

[mcjhr]

Yeah plate fees will suck. My ex got a 13 first year was 6 bones, this year its a few hairs above 3 bones. My 11 is 3 bones. 92 f150 was 100, but it was a fix or repair daily machine.

[Rooskibar03]

At the end of the day if you got a vehicle you want and a deal YOU can live with then its a win.

And no offense, most car sales folk suck. I bought my truck this summer and even with the conversation starting with "hi my name is craig and I'm the Internet and Finance manager at X" I still got the run around from Phil Long and Courtesy before finally calling a contact I knew up north and getting what I wanted. I still to this day don't know what I paid for the truck, couldn't care. Lease Payment was where I wanted it on a truck I loved so its a win for me.

Congrats.

[bogie]

Congrats on your new ride HB! Sounds like you made out all right to me.

Now you just gotta smile and bend over while the state license proctologist gives you a present...

[Rooskibar03]

BTW registration fee for new car is approx 2% of the MSRP (regardless of what you paid for it) total scam.

[Irving]

BTW registration fee for new car is approx 2% of the MSRP (regardless of what you paid for it) total scam.

This is what has stopped me from purchasing nicer vehicles than I currently own. It even screws you in the used market because the registration is still based on the original MSRP. You could probably get a killer deal on a late model luxury vehicles, but you still get raped at the DMV.