A little disturbing. (HTS group)

[jerrymrc]

So when I threw together my 300blk I used a PSA LPK. I noticed that the engagement areas were (to the naked eye) machined so for fun I put it in as-is just to see how it might be as many would.

Out to the range and yes,it was pretty bad. made a note to pull it out and do my normal to a stock trigger. A few hundred rounds later and last time out it reminded me again. I also noticed something new to the feel.....

Today I pulled it out and did a Hmmmmmmm. Engagement marks looked good but this disturbed me. I did my normal clean-up and other than I need to add some take-up to it not a bad feel for a stock one after I was done. I have a feeling that it will deform again. Like they say ya get what ya pay for. [Flower]3849538497

[BPTactical]

And now you know why generally cleaning up stock fire control components is false economy.
The components are case hardened, meaning just the "skin" of the components are hard. This hardness will vary in depth from nil to about 3-5 thousandths deep.
Given some of the "finished" surfaces I see these days it can take .010 to clean it up.
Then your into soft material and the trigger goes away.

[jerrymrc]

And now you know why generally cleaning up stock fire control components is false economy.
The components are case hardened, meaning just the "skin" of the components are hard. This hardness will vary in depth from nil to about 3-5 thousandths deep.
Given some of the "finished" surfaces I see these days it can take .010 to clean it up.
Then your into soft material and the trigger goes away.

Ya missed the point Bert. The pics are of a "as delivered" stock LPK group. I fully understand how most are hardened and that is why my normal prep is only a touch and never more than .001.

I did not touch the parts in the pic and they had only 2-300 rds to produce the effect noted and that is why I posted it. I have DPMS LPK's that I "cleaned up" from the get go that have 2000+ rounds and never did anything like this.[Flower]In fact i went and looked and they look like new. [flamingo]

[ChunkyMonkey]

Damn.. this is one of my concerns for gifting a PSA build.

[Monky]

The only thing I order from PSA is ammo. Just like Walmart... Quantity and cheap = shit


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[jerrymrc]

The only thing I order from PSA is ammo. Just like Walmart... Quantity and cheap = shit



At the time it was the same price as everyone else for a LPK $50-60. Since you obviously have done a bunch of testing and already knew this what LPK do you buy with a std trigger?

In all the posts about PSA I remember missing little items and the lack of "Instant" shipping but never a post about there stuff being a complete waste of $$$. My 300blk barrel shoots better than me and up to this point never had an issue with their items.

The whole reason I posted this was to see if anyone else may have had an issue with an UN-ALTERED UN-TOUCHED hammer. It may have been a bad HT batch or they may all be this way. Just a thought.

[BPTactical]

Ya missed the point Bert. The pics are of a "as delivered" stock LPK group. I fully understand how most are hardened and that is why my normal prep is only a touch and never more than .001.

I did not touch the parts in the pic and they had only 2-300 rds to produce the effect noted and that is why I posted it. I have DPMS LPK's that I "cleaned up" from the get go that have 2000+ rounds and never did anything like this.[Flower]In fact i went and looked and they look like new. [flamingo]

I don't recall saying you did touch them.
I missed the "ass delivered" asspect.
Jeez Jerry.
The explanation of the case hardening was for the benefit of those that may not understand just what they are seeing.

Boy, somebody missed out on juice box and nap time today[handbags][Kick2]



Besides, I KNOW you didn't touch them.
There's no rock marks[Spank][Hyper]

[Irving]

Actually, I didn't really understand what I was looking at, until Bert's post and Jerry's response. Then everything made sense.

[jerrymrc]

I missed the "ass delivered" asspect.
Jeez Jerry.
The explanation of the case hardening was for the benefit of those that may not understand just what they are seeing.

Boy, somebody missed out on juice box and nap time today[handbags][Kick2]



Besides, I KNOW you didn't touch them.
There's no rock marks[Spank][Hyper]

Rocks are for AK's. [Flower] My juice box and nap time has been disturbed by a bunch of military...... Long story. The first thing is that I have bought LPK's from at least 4 company's and IMO they are all the same. never seen enough difference in them to make me question anything.

I know what I saw and I know what it means even for this hack. Most normal HTS groups I only try and replicate wear in the normal areas to duplicate a set after 10-20K rds. That and spring work make them useable. I have an old M-16 set that for a stock trigger is pretty nice. I have a feeling I know what happened and that the machine work (a waste) after treat was too deep and went through the case hardening.

Since it still has a lot of life left I will give it another few hundred and see. If the same thing I will just clean it up and re-treat it "home style". [LOL]The only good thing is I like to fix things and not just plug in another. [handbags] In some ways I am not cut out for the modern AR world. [Coffee]

[BPTactical]

In some ways I am not cut out for the modern AR world. [Coffee]

FAL whore.......

While the LPK'S may look alike I will say that Colt, LMT, Daniels Defense and as you mentioned DPMS seem to hold pretty well after cleaning them up.
CMMG, Bushmaster, Smith & Wesson and PSA have all gone away quickly.

[jerrymrc]

Actually, I didn't really understand what I was looking at, until Bert's post and Jerry's response. Then everything made sense.

The problem is that we have gone over a gazillion times how overworking an AR HTS set can cause one grief. I have a set here that came with a bunch of parts that is downright comical because the person making it "match grade" had absolutely no clue how they worked. All kind of smoothing and work on places that have nothing to do with the operation and feel of a good trigger.

The point and pics show a deformation in the hammer after just a few hundred rounds. You should never see something like this in the real world on un-touched parts. Many in an attempt to make their parts better only make them worse. Grind your 1911 feedramp into the barrel since it looks good and only woe will follow.

In my case this was like a joke that I wanted to see how most that just play "part A into tab B" build an AR. In the end I discovered something that should not be and can lead (uncorrected) to doubling or worse depending on how far it is allowed to go. There is a very small amount of engagement surface and any deformation of the two parts is cause for concern but most is caused by the owner reading some internet BS about how to turn your stock trigger into the best thing since sliced bread.

As of now it feels great with nothing more than 1000 grit paper and a little oil but if it as soft as I think it is it will return but it can be fixed.[Flower]

[ChunkyMonkey]

I am going shooting on Sunday.. will grab one of the PSA build and shoot few hundred rounds and see if there is any kind of wear. I never seen them like yours Jerry.. But again, I am a gun whore and the two AR I shot most have CMC triggers on them.

[jerrymrc]

FAL whore.......

While the LPK'S may look alike I will say that Colt, LMT, Daniels Defense and as you mentioned DPMS seem to hold pretty well after cleaning them up.
CMMG, Bushmaster, Smith & Wesson and PSA have all gone away quickly.

Then that is an easy fix. Not like the Fal Whore has to worry about US parts with an AR.[LOL]As a side note the DPMS kits I bought I used to get for $49 as the local guy took pity on me. They always required work but never had an issue with them after a little clean up.[Flower] Fal triggers on the other hand will drive one batshit. [beatdeadhorse]

[jerrymrc]

I am going shooting on Sunday.. will grab one of the PSA build and shoot few hundred rounds and see if there is any kind of wear. I never seen them like yours Jerry.. But again, I am a gun whore and the two AR I shot most have CMC triggers on them.

It is not wear it is a deformation from the reset on soft metal. Wear can be a good thing. It is hard to explain but mine went from just gritty to gritty with a bump that led me to investigate what was going on. This may sound stupid but when it started doing this I could see how the feel was translated into what the parts might look like. No voodoo just an understanding of the feel to mechanical relationship. [Beer]