The future of ammo: R.I.P. 9mm

[SouthPaw]

http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/24/the-new-ammunition-that-has-gun-owners-drooling/

Pretty interesting stuff.

[speedysst]

I wouldnt be surprised if there was already legislation in the works to ban this ammo but the concept is fascinating. I love the balloon shot.

[blacklabel]

Those are some big time claims. What it does to a gelatin block is pretty damn impressive.


* 16″ Penetration
* Up to 6″ diameter spread
* 96 gr projectile
* 2″ grouping at 25 yrds
* 1265 FPS / 490 Muzzle Energy
* 9 Separate Wound Channels
* Precision Machined
* Solid Copper / Lead Free
* Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing

[Lex_Luthor]

That is wicked! I hope I can get my hands on some!

[ZERO THEORY]

...because the fence-sitters and people who could potentially vote to help our cause are really going to be won over by this. Might as well call it "SUPER DUPER DEATH KILL 9000!".

The voice over work and pop words are an anti-gun lib's wet dream. This company just basically did Feinstien's job for her.

[bogie]

39843

[HoneyBadger]

Can't watch the videos right now, but it does seem to be an EPA friendly round... [facepalm]

ETA: also, based on the title, I thought this thread was going to be about the demise of the 9mm round. Lol

[Zundfolge]

I smell gimmick ... gimmick with cheesy marketing.

Its still only a 96gr projectile that breaks off into a bunch of tiny projectiles when it hits soft tissue ... so there's just not as much energy as a heavier, intact JHP.

It's just a scarier looking frangible ... and why don't we have a yawning smiley?

[merl]

9m beehive round?

[SouthPaw]

CNC machined sounds expensive! Looks pretty awesome going through gel though!

[sniper7]

Looks pretty awesome!

[Gman]

Looks pretty awesome going through gel though!
The watermelon in the lower video would make Gallagher proud.

I'm always skeptical of boutique ammo.

[Ah Pook]

Website Offline? Did we kill it? [facepalm]

[cstone]

It slices, it dices, it makes Julienne fries...

but we don't need it here because we already have The Ginsue swinging the all powerful ban hammer!

Seriously, how many police departments are going to start carrying this stuff? And PDs have government attorneys and taxpayer pocket books to back up their shootings. Boutique ammo is the correct term. You want to blow up pumpkins and watermelons at the range, go right ahead, but self defense carry? Not for me.

[ZERO THEORY]

It slices, it dices, it makes Julienne fries...

but we don't need it here because we already have The Ginsue swinging the all powerful ban hammer!

Seriously, how many police departments are going to start carrying this stuff? And PDs have government attorneys and taxpayer pocket books to back up their shootings. Boutique ammo is the correct term. You want to blow up pumpkins and watermelons at the range, go right ahead, but self defense carry? Not for me.

Imagine having to defend yourself in a justifiable shoot that goes to trial using that ammo.

[TFOGGER]

I smell gimmick ... gimmick with cheesy marketing.

Its still only a 96gr projectile that breaks off into a bunch of tiny projectiles when it hits soft tissue ... so there's just not as much energy as a heavier, intact JHP.

It's just a scarier looking frangible ... and why don't we have a yawning smiley?

Energy is roughly the same as any 115gr 9mm+P round, lighter projectile but higher velocity. The penetration looks to be adequate, expansion being initiated through fluidics, much like Golden Saber or Ranger T. CNC is going to make these stupidly expensive, though, and as others have mentioned, they could just name it the Baby Slayer 9000 Extra Killer round and save the media the trouble. I won't be buying any of these any time soon...

[Rabid]

For anyone that thinks this is a good idea; could i interest you in some swampland in Florida?

[sniper7]

For anyone that thinks this is a good idea; could i interest you in some swampland in Florida?

Sure, thats where they built the new Panama City airport! Wish I had owned that swampland! Or the land Walt bought when he came up with the idea of a Florida version of his California success!

[Rabid]

Sure, thats where they built the new Panama City airport! Wish I had owned that swampland! Or the land Walt bought when he came up with the idea of a Florida version of his California success!
Please send your money to my paypal at PTBarnumWasRight@Suckerpermin.com (PTBarnumWasRight@Suckpermin.com) and we will get you taken care of.

[Ah Pook]

Okay, link works now.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&docid=kGcz8wZbrkcKiM&tbnid=xUT68t972jQ7-M:&ved=0CAUQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatjakes.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F04%2Fsnake-oil.jpg&ei=6CrkUsD5PITNsQSFooLgAw&psig=AFQjCNETgWqccwZMFGpuW9NpNS-sbgSlfA&ust=1390771305090137

[Squeeze]

Regardless of the skepticism, I want a box to conduct some of my own "informal ballistic testing". If they prove to be as kick ass as they claim...I would like to have some before they get banned (like the Black Talons) just for some "go-to" ammo. Those things would be bad ass in my 9mm AR.

[HoneyBadger]

Those things would be bad ass in my 9mm AR.

In an AR, these might have some big advantages... Faster bullet means less drop.

[TFOGGER]

.I would like to have some before they get banned (like the Black Talons) just for some "go-to" ammo.

You are aware that the Black Talon was quietly reintroduced as the more PC "Ranger SXT"?

[Squeeze]

You are aware that the Black Talon was quietly reintroduced as the more PC "Ranger SXT"?

Yes, I do. I was just mentioning the fact that all the anti-gun nutjobs were able to cry like little whiny bitches and get the "Black Talons" banned. I know they only did it because they were "black" which makes them evil... [facepalm]

The Ranger SXT and PDX-1 ammo is really great stuff. I'm still itching to try out this new 9mm ammo.

[KS63]

My guess is if it ever makes it to market, it'll be $40-$50 per 20. It'll kill itself....

[wctriumph]

Heck, anyone that gets shot with this stuff will probably die on the operating table as they try to get at all the pieces that went in all different directions.

[blacklabel]

ETA: also, based on the title, I thought this thread was going to be about the demise of the 9mm round. Lol

Hah, I thought that too.

[Bailey Guns]

G2 Research has released a new ammo that is taking the market by storm and has gun owners all over the country trying to find where to pick some up.

Really? Then why are we just now hearing about it? After listening to the narration in the first video my first thought was, Billy Mays could hype this a whole lot better...if he wasn't dead.

Besides...it can't be that great. I didn't see any ninjas in the marketing or the videos. I think I'll just stick to something readily available from a reputable maker like Federal, Remington and Winchester. If I have to, I'll fire a second round. Probably still cheaper and more effective than THE LAST ROUND YOU'LL EVER NEED.

[Mtn.man]

I got a dremel tool.

[SamuraiCO]

Hey its lead free. Isn't that what CA is asking for?

[rockhound]

i can see all kinds of new hollow point platforms available with a solid copper blank, no lead so more penetration with a lighter round, what kind of penetration in body armor? this could be the bane of the anti gunners, we wanted to clean up the environment and have consequently made ammo more deadly.

[cfortune]

But guys.... Did you see it go through half a cinder block????

[Irving]

Can this knock down a popper though?

[sniper7]

I've been thinking about this stuff today after I reloaded a bunch if rounds and I would like to try them out. In regards to the media and how it's a baby killer or how this would be used against you in court should you have to defend yourself, it is a simple fact that in the case of self defense I want the best technology available to stop the threat. This sure looks like some good technology to me.

[blacklabel]

If I wanted to knock something or someone down, I'd use a .45.

[muddywings]

I am easily wooed by shinny things, boobies and and new fangled contraptions so that being said...

http://i.imgur.com/70A26eP.jpg?2

[hurley842002]

If I wanted to knock something or someone down, I'd use a .45.

:rolleyes:

[HoneyBadger]

I didn't watch the videos, so please tell me if this is explained in them...


how are these different from any other 9mm frangible?

[nynco]

I would think in the future, that these rounds might be cast produced. CNC seems like a good solution till having a demand in product that justifies the cost of creating a casting system.

[TEAMRICO]

.........multiple layers of denim.


How will we be able to fight off the Canadians?

[nynco]

Ya'll are makin me laugh lately

[buffalobo]

I am easily wooed by shinny things, boobies and and new fangled contraptions so that being said...

http://i.imgur.com/70A26eP.jpg?2

^^^^^This, at least to try a box.

[newracer]

Black Talons were never banned. Winchester pulled them off the market and reintroduced them without the black dye in the teflon.

[strm_trpr]

Black Talons were never banned. Winchester pulled them off the market and reintroduced them without the black dye in the teflon.

Truth, the Winchester ranger T series is the Talons reborn.

[Wulf202]

Is it me or did the gelatin look a little thin?

Then again i JUST got done watching pentagon wars.

[jerrymrc]

Now take that cop-killer bullet and load it in 38 super @ 1600 FPS or .357 sig...... The Horror, The Horror. [LOL][fail]

[Aloha_Shooter]

Hmmm ... it seemed intriguing at first but .... and I mean BUT ... look at the video at 2:24. See all those little projectiles flying out of the gelatin on a wide dispersion pattern? What was that phrase? Oh yeah, know your target AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT. No damned way I want to be responsible for carrying a round that intentionally sends frags through the target and beyond on a wide pattern. I have to hand it to them though ... it certainly is innovative.

[hatidua]

It's all dependent upon how they choose to market it:

-pay Travis Haley/Larry Vickers/Pat Rogers to claim that this revolutionizes ammo performance and its sales will rival keymod rails.
-get a few YouTube clowns to pronounce this the best thing for the coming Zombie Apocalypse, and it will rank right alongside .45GAP.

[Rabid]

I fell like i need to hold a terminal ballistics class for dummies with you guys, this round truly goes against everything we know about "stopping power" period. When it comes to larger caliber and slow speed bullets (pistols) it makes even less sense. As seen here i am glad these guys will make money off their invention but i hope none of you spend money on this total BS idea.
Ok class 001: Hit your self as hard as you can with your thumb, pointer and middle finger in the head, this is a FMJ, yea it stings but you will be ok. Now again hit your self as hard as you can with all 5 fingers and your palm, this is the R.I.P. gimmick round, kinda painless when compared to the FMJ right? Now again hit your self as hard as you can with your fist, this is a well designed hollow point, if you really hit your self as hard as you could you might have problems reading this. We are working with the same mass and speed in this experiment but all 3 give a different result.
Let me know if you want class 002.

[sniper7]

I fell like i need to hold a terminal ballistics class for dummies with you guys, this round truly goes against everything we know about "stopping power" period. When it comes to larger caliber and slow speed bullets (pistols) it makes even less sense. As seen here i am glad these guys will make money off their invention but i hope none of you spend money on this total BS idea.
Ok class 001: Hit your self as hard as you can with your thumb, pointer and middle finger in the head, this is a FMJ, yea it stings but you will be ok. Now again hit your self as hard as you can with all 5 fingers and your palm, this is the R.I.P. gimmick round, kinda painless when compared to the FMJ right? Now again hit your self as hard as you can with your fist, this is a well designed hollow point, if you really hit your self as hard as you could you might have problems reading this. We are working with the same mass and speed in this experiment but all 3 give a different result.
Let me know if you want class 002.

But what about internal damage, while I know they are small pieces, are multiple pieces going at different angles through one or many vital organs more damaging than a single larger hole? Sure it may not feel like much if you hit yourself with 5 fingers compared to a fist, but what about five fingers ripping through your heart and lungs, or through your brain. I've seen multiple people who have survived head shots, what would have happened if this same bullet was used and had multiple pieces going through? Or what if you shoot low and it's a gut shot that's a little to the left or right yet one of these pieces catches the spinal cord. I would compare this bullet and a 45 thinking of it as multiple .17s going through at different angles and one larger .22 sized round straight in compared to a single .45 slug going straight in.

i agree you won't get the concentrated energy and "knockdown power", but it sure seems like this bullets is pretty devastating from my initial views.

[lpgasman]

I fell like i need to hold a terminal ballistics class for dummies with you guys, this round truly goes against everything we know about "stopping power" period. When it comes to larger caliber and slow speed bullets (pistols) it makes even less sense. As seen here i am glad these guys will make money off their invention but i hope none of you spend money on this total BS idea.
Ok class 001: Hit your self as hard as you can with your thumb, pointer and middle finger in the head, this is a FMJ, yea it stings but you will be ok. Now again hit your self as hard as you can with all 5 fingers and your palm, this is the R.I.P. gimmick round, kinda painless when compared to the FMJ right? Now again hit your self as hard as you can with your fist, this is a well designed hollow point, if you really hit your self as hard as you could you might have problems reading this. We are working with the same mass and speed in this experiment but all 3 give a different result.
Let me know if you want class 002.
So does that mean you would be willing to take a hit from one of these? The energy it showed going through the ballistic gelatin seemed to be pretty substantial. Maybe it wouldn't knock you down, but it sure as hell would take alot of fight out of you, while you were bleeding out of multiple holes.

[osok-308]

^^^^^This, at least to try a box.

That's mu thought is that I should at least try a box. Whether or not it's good enough to become defense rounds? Time will tell.

I do agree that these will be the "assault bullets" they try to get banned next.

[Bailey Guns]

Knockdown power? Stopping power? From a 9mm handgun round?

[cofi]

Is it me or did the gelatin look a little thin?

Then again i JUST got done watching pentagon wars.
Glad someone else noticed if you pause the first video at 224 you can see the calibration bb in the left side of the block it's only supposed to penetrate 8cm it looks like it penetrated 7-8in!

[rockhound]

.........multiple layers of denim.


How will we be able to fight off the Canadians?

I have seen several ballistics tests that use denim in front of the gel to simulate shooting a dressed person, you would be surprised the amount of energy lost penetrating denim or a heavy coat

[Jamnanc]

I wonder if those little slivers will penetrate soft armor, that's probably the real point. Similar to flechette ammo. Thin enough to get in between the weave.

[rockhound]

everyone thinks they need a bigger round to have stopping power, feel free to stand in front of my 9mm if you want to test that theory.

i bookmarked this little posting at one time. it is interesting and it does have stats with denim

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25751

[Zombie Steve]

Glad someone else noticed if you pause the first video at 224 you can see the calibration bb in the left side of the block it's only supposed to penetrate 8cm it looks like it penetrated 7-8in!

Yep. I see this producing ugly but shallow wound channels. Like birdshot. I call voodoo.


everyone thinks they need a bigger round to have stopping power, feel free to stand in front of my 9mm if you want to test that theory.

I hear this argument quite a bit, and I never understood. I wouldn't stand in front of someone throwing a cue ball at me... doesn't make cue balls ideal for self defense.

[HoneyBadger]

I would like to get my hands on the future shotgun slugs they mention at 3:00 in video #1. I feel like those would do some nasty sh!t...

[hurley842002]

I would like to get my hands on the future shotgun slugs they mention at 3:00 in video #1. I feel like those would do some nasty sh!t...

NONSENSE! Do you need a class!?!? [sarcasm]

[Jer]

Meh



I'll stick with my Hornady Critical Defense.

I'm sure Mac w/Future Weapons will do an informative write-up on this though so the educated masses can make their own informed decision.

[cstone]

I would like to get my hands on the future shotgun slugs they mention at 3:00 in video #1. I feel like those would do some nasty sh!t...

Why wait. Shoot a 1 oz. rifled slug out of a 12 gage shotgun and see what kind of nasty shit it will do. I'll wager the slug will cost quite a bit less as well.

[Grant H.]

Having seen some of these fired into ballistics gel personally, and no, not the shots in the video, I will say this:

There is a lot of skepticism here from people that have never seen these, and actually some just flat bad information about wound channel, penetration, and "knock down power".

The information provided from shooting ballistics gel blocks, and experimenting with going through clothes and such that we saw is pretty impressive.

[SideShow Bob]

And I am sure they will run into big trouble on a federal level. They violate the definition of AP ammo on both these points.

WHAT IS AP AMMO, BY FEDERAL LAW?The definition of AP ammo is at 18 USC sec. 921(a)(17):
"(B) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' means-
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

[jackthewall81]

When will these be illegal

[rondog]

Imagine having to defend yourself in a justifiable shoot that goes to trial using that ammo.

Bingo, WINNER!

[Rabid]

But what about internal damage, while I know they are small pieces, are multiple pieces going at different angles through one or many vital organs more damaging than a single larger hole? Sure it may not feel like much if you hit yourself with 5 fingers compared to a fist, but what about five fingers ripping through your heart and lungs, or through your brain. I've seen multiple people who have survived head shots, what would have happened if this same bullet was used and had multiple pieces going through? Or what if you shoot low and it's a gut shot that's a little to the left or right yet one of these pieces catches the spinal cord. I would compare this bullet and a 45 thinking of it as multiple .17s going through at different angles and one larger .22 sized round straight in compared to a single .45 slug going straight in.

i agree you won't get the concentrated energy and "knockdown power", but it sure seems like this bullets is pretty devastating from my initial views.
You have seen multiple people shot in the head and on top of that they they survived, how many of these supposed people shot in the head have died?.... I call 100% total fucking BS. I will not help another that lies to my face. Keep trying to hit a needle in a hay stack with a needle, buy what you want.


So does that mean you would be willing to take a hit from one of these? The energy it showed going through the ballistic gelatin seemed to be pretty substantial. Maybe it wouldn't knock you down, but it sure as hell would take a lot of fight out of you, while you were bleeding out of multiple holes.
Did i ever say i wanted to be shot? I do not want to be shot by an air soft or paint ball gun even if i am playing the game. The gelatin does not show much considering it was not calibrated and also it hit right near the top but even in this situation there is little permanent wound channel shown by this round in their own videos.

[hurley842002]

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-9mm-g2-research-rip-96gr-hp-lf-ammo/manufacturers_id/405

[Irving]

I'm waiting on an endorsement from MickBoy.

[kidicarus13]

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-9mm-g2-research-rip-96gr-hp-lf-ammo/manufacturers_id/405





https://www.ar-15.co/images/pixel_trans.gif













PRODUCT NOT FOUND

[kidicarus13]

Get it while it's hot! http://www.armslist.com/posts/2631707/evansville-indiana-ammo-for-sale--new----g2-research-rip-9mm-20-round-box-

[davsel]

Looks like a new take on the Glaser Safety Slug or the MagSafe rounds. Both of which have proven effective.
However, I agree that the antis will ensure the demise of this demon round. I had assumed the marketing folks would have learned from the Black Talon fiasco.

[Hound]

Get it while it's hot! http://www.armslist.com/posts/2631707/evansville-indiana-ammo-for-sale--new----g2-research-rip-9mm-20-round-box-
At $100-$400 per 20..........[hahhah-no]

[KS63]

Here is a test of the ammo. You decide if it's worth $2+ per round.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/

[SouthPaw]

After seeing that video looks they are something just to give the liberals to talk about. Cool idea though!

[blacklabel]

Now that we know that conventional ammo can create permanent damage that closely resembles the magnitude of permanent damage attainable by an R.I.P. 9mm round, we can figure out just how much destructive potential we’re looking at here. So what kind of devastating, ultra-powerful ammo did it take to make this comparable damage?

A few .22LR’s. From a handgun. A 3.5”-barrel Bersa Thunder .22, to be exact. Not even a rifle; it took a few shots from the most woefully inadequate defensive weapon on the market to recreate the damage profile of the new G2 R.I.P. ammo.

Ouch! No bueno.

[spqrzilla]

Having seen some of these fired into ballistics gel personally, and no, not the shots in the video, I will say this:

There is a lot of skepticism here from people that have never seen these, and actually some just flat bad information about wound channel, penetration, and "knock down power".

The information provided from shooting ballistics gel blocks, and experimenting with going through clothes and such that we saw is pretty impressive.

I'd be more impressed if the ballistic gel blocks were actually to spec .....

This ammo is snake oil.

[KS63]

A FTF in a Glock 19 doesn't bode well. And I'm a 1911 guy.....

[DSB OUTDOORS]

Just watched. Ohhhhhh Me Likie, Likie, Likie !!! Doing da pee pee dance. I want bullets for reloading!! Info Please!!

[rondog]

Just watched. Ohhhhhh Me Likie, Likie, Likie !!! Doing da pee pee dance. I want bullets for reloading!! Info Please!!

Easy now, don't ruin your shorts! Do your research before throwing your money. See that ammo test video up above in post #74? Them bullets ain't so impressive under standard testing.

[KS63]

I need to score me some boxes of these to sell on GB. There's a few guns I'd like to finance them with.....

[Mick-Boy]

I'm pretty unimpressed with what I've seen of this stuff.

The way I see it; I would only shoot people to stop them from doing something they're trying to do. The surest way to get them to stop is to help them shuffle of this mortal coil. Because they're in the process of doing something I perceived to be so threatening that they needed to get shot, I have to help them along as efficiently as possible.

There are two different ways to do this: Electrical or plumbing.

If I interrupt the electrical (shoot the brain) they're going to die in a hurry. This is optimal. Unfortunately the head is very difficult to hit and the skull can sometimes be disagreeable about letting bullets through. Because of this, most people go for the plumbing.

If I'm going to try and make someone die by shooting their plumbing (heart, lungs, arteries and veins), I have to make the blood come out. The most efficient way to do this is by punching lots of holes in it as close to the important bits as possible. Permanent wound channels help the blood to come out and more holes make the process much faster.

A bunch of little needles tearing up soft tissue and the 30gr or so remainder penetrating into the good bits doesn't make me very confident that this thing would work efficiently. Would it kill a fool? Definitely. But I don't want to rely on the guy dying of blood loss 30 minutes or a couple of hours from now. If he's a hard case, he could wreak all sorts of havoc on me and mine in that time.

I'll stick with reputable HP ammunition.

[Mick-Boy]

Just for grins.

http://www.breachbangclear.com/site/10-blog/627-rips-new-omega-lethal-flesh-shredder.html

[dan512]

You and your science... fancy learnin' never taught me nothin. And them math numbers is the worst.

[funkymonkey1111]

Gel test on RIP round from GY6


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQrzFErdziY&feature=em-uploademail