Senate Bill 100 - Bill to repeal the banned standard capacity magazine ban

[mahkcod]

Legislative Alert


Next week the Senate State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee will hear Senate Bill 100 (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001AqFaGQ-u1AXuRfoBC-KamDa5-R1Acg8vtj36cBPkRZvPY6oweB-8Whnf7DNo2QU9hPQJ3_bhGVJxnkce21L6mvrJV4P2JxFkFqu-cgwMtCwAGl6q193-Z33nkpsj3xwoiSiOOOLPG6UD8bzvgT6NRU-OgBPmCQmL3lqjDUPCp3eeX7ox7yal5V5C9z9LN-1GqkNzkY6VOFTFOc2EpiwZ9z0-yjSnDFAN5MVVnriNJu6y6Ug6LL8d7zH05XRrHdxT1SyVoega5j d5ACSJPU3SinWsKsuLme474hZRe3tHCHQ97icgmfhfVUsDAfRj iP3f&c=PgBYl5OIX3XXuTPZPD5wBetqwXvDH4KMLBxUsmxohzz6RZaN yWT6ew==&ch=YzE_cpUK-GUZTiOQ50qgVFLHg_-HVTzpQQToeBUGTmIfgKH2VMk-bA==), our bill to repeal the Democrats' legislation that banned standard capacity ammunition magazines.

Come have your voice heard.

Sincerely,





Sen. Randy Baumgardner Sen. Bernie Herpin


What: Committee hearing for Senate Bill 100

When: 1:30 PM, Wednesday, February 12

Where: Colorado State Capitol in the Old Supreme Court Chambers

[BPTactical]

Will die in committee.
You think the Dem majority will pass it?
You think a Dem Governor will sign it?

[TFOGGER]

Time to fire up the emails and fax machine.

Senator Ulibarri, Chairman; Senator Jones, Vice-Chairman; Aguilar, Harvey, Herpin

irene.aguilar.senate@state.co.us

ted.harvey.senate@state.co.us

bernie.herpin.senate@state.co.us

senatormattjones@gmail.com

jessie.ulibarri.senate@state.co.us

[merl]

That is the same group as the BGC.

[Zundfolge]

Will die in committee.
You think the Dem majority will pass it?
You think a Dem Governor will sign it?
No, but by God we're going to make the Dems vote FOR their stupid, unpopular laws over and over again. That WILL hurt them.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Contact the committee and tell them to vote YES on HB 14-1151

Rep. Su Ryden (Chair) - District 36
Phone: 303-866-2942
E-mail: su.ryden.house@state.co.us




Rep. Joe Salazar (Vice-Chair) - District 31
Phone: 303-866-2918
E-mail: joseph.salazar.house@state.co.us




Rep. Kathleen Conti - District 38
Phone: 303-866-2953
E-mail: kathleen.conti.house@state.co.us




Rep. Tim Dore - District 64
Phone: 303-866-2398
E-mail: tim.dore.house@state.co.us



Rep. Mike Foote - District 12
Phone: 303-866-2920
E-mail: mike.foote.house@state.co.us




Rep. Steve Humphrey - District 48
Phone: 303-866-2943
E-mail: rephumphrey48@yahoo.com




Rep. Jeanne Labuda - District 1
Phone: 303-866-2966
E-mail: jeanne.labuda.house@state.co.us




Rep. Jovan Melton - District 41
Phone: 303-866-2919
E-mail: jovan.melton.house@state.co.us



Rep. Dominick Moreno - District 32
Phone: 303-866-2964
E-mail: dominick.moreno.house@state.co.us




Rep. Dan Nordberg - District 14
Phone: 303-866-2965
E-mail: dan.nordberg.house@state.co.us




Rep. Angela Williams - District 7
Phone: 303-866-2909
E-mail: angela.williams.house@state.co.us

(sorry, wrong bill same effect......posted without thinking, and yes cut and paste from email...it's Friday :P )

[Bitter Clinger]

I'll send emails.......but it won't do any good, will be killed in committee.

[james_bond_007]

Maybe if you called them "Clips" in the email, they might know what we are talking about.

They may be thinking a "high capacity magazine" is a really thick issue of Playboy or the SI swimsuit edition ?

[Sarcasm2]

[james_bond_007]

I'll send emails.......but it won't do any good, will be killed in committee.

I can definitely say that if we DON'T send emails, "...it won't do any good...".

[MAP]

I think this bill is being heard today @ 13:30.

Mike

[TFOGGER]

I can definitely say that if we DON'T send emails, "...it won't do any good...".

Exactly. We will always fail if we never try.

[StagLefty]

Is this going to be streamed ?

[Great-Kazoo]

Is this going to be streamed ?

I believe one or 2 board members are in attendance.

[JohnnyDrama]

E mails sent.

As I was going through the list of contacts some changes were called for...

John Morse
Angela Giron
Evie Hudak

Needed to be removed.

[TFOGGER]

Is this going to be streamed ?

Edit:

you can probably get audio here: http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013A/cslFrontPages.nsf/Audio?OpenPage

click on "Senate Committees" and then click State, Veterans, and Military Affairs. they're supposed to open session at 13:30

[wctriumph]

Another round of emails sent and calls made. All of which are being ignored except by the republicans.

[StagLefty]

Edit:

you can probably get audio here: http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013A/cslFrontPages.nsf/Audio?OpenPage

click on "Senate Committees" and then click State, Veterans, and Military Affairs. they're supposed to open session at 13:30
Looks like no audio today ?

[Bitter Clinger]

Looks like no audio today ?

video is working fine

[TFOGGER]

I can get video from the Senate Floor, but no audio of the committees

[StagLefty]

video is working fine

Doesn't seem to be the one we're interested in though ?
Seems to me that the mag bill is Wednesday ?

[OneGuy67]

Audio just started. In the old supreme court chambers.

http://coloradoga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=5

[StagLefty]

^ thanks

[mtnrider]

I can't stream it, keep us posted please.

[newracer]

I love how Rep Chris Holbert keeps referring to magazines as metal and plastic boxes with springs inside.

[TFOGGER]

Playing Bejeweled...priceless!

[J]

Wow... wonder how many of his marine brethren would agree with his statements.

[Dave]

Playing Bejeweled...priceless!
You or the Dems in attendance?

[OneGuy67]

Very disappointed with the current speaker. Mr. Pew.

[newracer]

You or the Dems in attendance?

It was a reference to the Dems during the testimony in the hearing last year.

[newracer]

Wow... wonder how many of his marine brethren would agree with his statements.


Very disappointed with the current speaker. Mr. Pew.

He thinks of normal everyday people as the "enemy."

Best testimony so far was from the guy that run the Cherry Creek Shooting Center. He reminded them that all they are doing today is voting to allow this to be heard by the whole floor, which they should do.

[TFOGGER]

Very disappointed with the current speaker. Mr. Pew.

I particularly dislike the way he referred to anyone not military or police as "civilians", as if we were second class citizens.

[TFOGGER]

Sheriff Cook is killing it.

[osok-308]

Unfortunately I can't listen to it on my smartphone. Keep me updated.

[blacklabel]

Who's on currently?

[newracer]

Sheriff Smith just finished.

[blacklabel]

I don't know if I can subject myself to this after what we went through last year.

[OneGuy67]

Navy vet on now, who dislikes guns.

[blacklabel]

Navy vet on now, who dislikes guns.

And doesn't understand the second amendment.

[blacklabel]

He's now stating that the gun industry is the one throwing money around to make the issue a partisan issue.

[blacklabel]

At least he wasn't long winded.

[blacklabel]

Dr. Julie Meyers, a pediatrician is on now. Do it for the children and all that jazz.

I'd keep this up but I'd probably end up putting a nail gun to my chest. Time to go get a haircut.

[newracer]

A former police chief from NJ up now, stating that the laws in NJ (mag and assault ban) did nothing to prevent or reduce crime.

[MAP]

A former police chief from NJ up now, stating that the laws in NJ (mag and assault ban) did nothing to prevent or reduce crime.

That would be me. Looking at the panel I don't think they could care less on what I had to say.

[TFOGGER]

This guy is blatantly spouting bullshit...I wonder if anyone is going to call him on it?

[newracer]

That would be me. Looking at the panel I don't think they could care less on what I had to say.

Thank you for being there and testifying. Excellent job!!!! I wish someone would have asked you some questions so you could have spoken more.

[Rabid]

That would be me. Looking at the panel I don't think they could care less on what I had to say.
Thank you, you were well spoken.

[TFOGGER]

Oh Boy...Tom Mauser being allowed to spout more of his bullshit...

[wctriumph]

Mauser: Don't those people caught in a mass shooting deserve those few seconds.

How about the the seconds that will be there when a law abiding and trained CCW person stops the shooter before he can finish emptying his illegal 30 or 50 or 100 round magazine?

I am sorry he lost his son at Columbine but he should keep his grubby hands off my guns and magazines. Fuck him and those like him that would enable the criminal to succeed.

[newracer]

"This law only stands to hurt the law-abiding individuals in the *hope* that it will hinder the perpetrators of mass violence."

"Former Senator John Morse said publicly and nationally, on CNN, that the number chosen for the magazine limit was arbitrary."

[mcjhr]

I can't listen to Sloan or any MAIG. Listened until that.

[TFOGGER]

Sloan is an idiot. She is spouting bullshit as fact...I'm going to have to drink tonight.

[OneGuy67]

Sloan is an idiot. She is spouting bullshit as fact...I'm going to have to drink tonight.

+1

[TFOGGER]

The current speaker is trolling the committee, using direct quotes from a video posted here earlier.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Yeah I started getting a little too worked up for a "radio show" as well....turned it off and found a pbr. You can't help but feel like it's hopeless, talking to the extreme anti's is like trying to reason with lunatics.

[TFOGGER]

Had to turn it off....blood pressure was getting dangerously high.

[mcjhr]

All I've heard from opposition is hunting narratives, for the children, and all you need is a second. No hard facts.

The one lady who lived next to bikers got cut short. Guess she doesn't matter.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

I think getting these laws overturned is going to be tough, power grabbers don't like giving up power when they get it. Has anyone scrutinized how the original bills where passed, whether the ptb circumvented any due process or actually had votes/etc....anything to prove illegality in their implementation, stuff that could be proved in high courts or whatnot. I'm sure the weasels had their backs covered when it was shoved through, but they are human despite their appearance and someone somewhere likely made a mistake or forgot to cya. It gets old hearing how laws were made because it was "the will of the people" yet I can never find the people who say they voted or were even asked about such things. I don't know much about politics other then I don't like them, but if it takes reading through a ten pound manuscript I'll try I guess. (nevermind, i see there have already been lawsuits and such filled, sorry - been out of the loop a little)

[cofi]

So what happened?

[cofi]

Or what's happening? Arfcom says 4/3 in favor of repeal

[StagLefty]

getting close now to vote

[J]

Just got a (D) vote for Yes. Could mean the 1 person swing we thought we needed was there. Voting still going. Keep hoping.

[blacklabel]

My fingers are crossed

[Rabid]

Killed

[J]

Yep, lost 7-4

[mcjhr]

Fucking pathetic.

"i have to do something" is no excuse for doing the wrong thing

[Rooskibar03]

This is my shocked face. No real change until we take back control of our state.

[hurley842002]

This is my shocked face. No real change until we take back control of our state.

Yup, I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I think this rejection is what we need to keep Colorado on it's toes for mid terms.

[ShipDate]

Yup, I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I think this rejection is what we need to keep Colorado on it's toes for mid terms.

Agreed.

[Zundfolge]

Yup, I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I think this rejection is what we need to keep Colorado on it's toes for mid terms.

Yep ... like I said make the Demonrats re-vote for this stupidity over and over again so that they show the people of Colorado that they really don't give two shits about what the people want.

The committee hearings are nothing more than dog and pony shows, there was never any chance that the D's would allow their precious usurpations of the rights of the people fall. Democrats are evil subhuman creatures and the best thing for Colorado (beyond gun rights) is to drag these things out into the light and let them burn.

[newracer]

Yup, I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I think this rejection is what we need to keep Colorado on it's toes for mid terms.

Actually it would have been better if it went to the floor and then lost. More exposure and more chance to see how each member votes.

[TFOGGER]

I think this shows just how scared the Ds are...they're unwilling to even let this get to the floor of the Senate. It's good that they are scared.

[battle_sight_zero]

Not at all surprised. Regardless of the recalls the Democrats do not believe they are vulnerable in 2014. Perhaps they are comfortable in cheating the elections in 2014? Will see........

[battle_sight_zero]

I think this shows just how scared the Ds are...they're unwilling to even let this get to the floor of the Senate. It's good that they are scared.

I dont believe they are afraid at all. I am not being negative but that koolaid that they drink on a regular basis is spiked with some strong stuff. We need to get the vote out in 2014 and also make sure the elections are not stolen. The Govenor race hopefully will turn our way, however I always worry about the Republican party imploding and the so called Libertarians voting on their principles. We are in a fight. If we loose in 2014 things will get worse, 2015 will make 2013 look tame as far as the left will go.

[BPTactical]

We have this upcoming election to turn this state around.
If we don't I fear this state is irrevocably done.

[Gman]

This is my shocked face. No real change until we take back control of our state.
+1

[MAP]

Not at all surprised. Regardless of the recalls the Democrats do not believe they are vulnerable in 2014. Perhaps they are comfortable in cheating the elections in 2014? Will see........

You are spot on. The Dems are arrogant and believe they are invincible. I think this vote by mail may backfire on them.

Mike

[JohnnyDrama]

Did we manage to swing any Democrats to our side this time?

What are the ramifications for the senate version which supposedly gets heard tomorrow?


https://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by battle_sight_zero https://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=1518001#post1518001)
Not at all surprised. Regardless of the recalls the Democrats do not believe they are vulnerable in 2014. Perhaps they are comfortable in cheating the elections in 2014? Will see........
You are spot on. The Dems are arrogant and believe they are invincible. I think this vote by mail may backfire on them.

Mike

Lastly, I agree about the Dems being arrogant about their power. Now that they've legalized pot, all the stoners will stay home eating Cheetos.

[Rucker61]

Not surprisingly, the Democrats have yet to mention the bill's defeat on either the Colorado Senate Democrats or Colorado House Democrats Facebook pages. I guess they don't want to weather that shitstorm publicly. Denver Post FB is quiet on the subject, too.

[battle_sight_zero]

Did we manage to swing any Democrats to our side this time?

What are the ramifications for the senate version which supposedly gets heard tomorrow?



Lastly, I agree about the Dems being arrogant about their power. Now that they've legalized pot, all the stoners will stay home eating Cheetos.


Sadly all the stoners who massed for the pot vote will be out to insure their pot is safe. All the new stoners that have moved here as well will vote to protect the herb. They will be told to be scared of the right. Vote left that will preserve your pot rights. All I can say is our side conservatives, republican, libertarian, 2nd amendment supporting democrats better unite or its finished in 2014 in Colorado.

[Ronin13]

Question on all this- as I'm not sure which, and we need to adjust accordingly: Is it that our voices are falling on deaf ears? Or are our voices not loud enough and we need to turn the volume up?

[O2HeN2]

IMHO deaf ears. The 'dems have their marching orders.

O2

[Rucker61]

Question on all this- as I'm not sure which, and we need to adjust accordingly: Is it that our voices are falling on deaf ears? Or are our voices not loud enough and we need to turn the volume up?

It's not deaf ears - it's fingers in ears, shaking their heads screaming "no, no, no". Tom Mauser, father of a Columbine victim, brought his emotional testimony to the committee, but he should be testifying for our side. His son's killer used a carbine with 10 round magazines, changing magazines at least 9 times. Hypocrite.

[Ronin13]

It's not deaf ears - it's fingers in ears, shaking their heads screaming "no, no, no". Tom Mauser, father of a Columbine victim, brought his emotional testimony to the committee, but he should be testifying for our side. His son's killer used a carbine with 10 round magazines, changing magazines at least 9 times. Hypocrite.
Lest we not forget that there was an AWB at the time his son was killed... oh what a difference that made! [Sarcasm2] Tom Mauser is an idiot. Anyone who thinks like him is an idiot. And anyone who stands on the graves of the dead to promote some political agenda is just pure evil, especially when this guy is standing on his own son's grave! The day someone dictates to me what freedom I may and may not enjoy, that is the day I no longer have freedom, that is the day I'm ruled by tyrants.

[battle_sight_zero]

Question on all this- as I'm not sure which, and we need to adjust accordingly: Is it that our voices are falling on deaf ears? Or are our voices not loud enough and we need to turn the volume up?

Our voices are falling on deaf ears. The only way we will be heard is voing majority a majority of 2nd amendment representatives and 2nd amendment supporting governor. If that happens a loud message will be sent that will be heard for decades, that is progressives down the road will be less likely to monkey with the laws.

Everyone has got to unite.

[osok-308]

It's not deaf ears - it's fingers in ears, shaking their heads screaming "no, no, no". Tom Mauser, father of a Columbine victim, brought his emotional testimony to the committee, but he should be testifying for our side. His son's killer used a carbine with 10 round magazines, changing magazines at least 9 times. Hypocrite.

I was going to go to this today, until they changed the date. There was already a ban on >10 round mags at the time. Plus we live in a state that borders states where you can buy larger magazines. If you're the kind of person who already decided you want to kill a lot of people, you'll probably just make a quick visit to Wyoming and get some standard capacity mags anyway. I mean if someone decided they're going to commit felonies anyway, They aren't going to let laws "inconvenience" them.

[O2HeN2]

Plus we live in a state that borders states where you can buy larger magazines. If you're the kind of person who already decided you want to kill a lot of people, you'll probably just make a quick visit to Wyoming and get some standard capacity mags anyway. I mean if someone decided they're going to commit felonies anyway, They aren't going to let laws "inconvenience" them.

Really poor argument. Putting my anti-gun hat on: ...and that's exactly why we need to make this a FEDERAL ban.

Argue the principle, argue emotionally, ANYTHING but "...you can buy them over there". To the antis what you gave is not a reason to lift our ban, it's a reason to make the ban wider.

O2

[osok-308]

Really poor argument. Putting my anti-gun hat on: ...and that's exactly why we need to make this a FEDERAL ban.

Argue the principle, argue emotionally, ANYTHING but "...you can buy them over there". To the antis what you gave is not a reason to lift our ban, it's a reason to make the ban wider.

O2

That might be true. But I would counter that with the fact that columbine occurred in the height of a federal ban. Or make note that it is illegal to own one sixteen- round magazine (xdm) yet it is legal to own fifteen round mags (glock). and ask them what makes that extra round so morally wrong.

[newracer]

Their is no point in arguing anything logical with them, they have already made that crystal clear. All they care about is their position.

[Ronin13]

Their is no point in arguing anything logical with them, they have already made that crystal clear. All they care about is their position.
Which is why we need to get rid of them. As long as you have politicians getting into the game based on their own personal vendettas against an unalienable right, you're going to have issues like this. Rhonda Fields doesn't care about logic, she doesn't care about the constitution, she only cares about seeking revenge on an inanimate object that she feels has wronged her (and others). Stupid as that sounds, that's liberal logic for you. It's much akin to me losing a good friend sophomore year of high school to a drunk driver, and instead of saying we need stricter drunk-driving penalties, I go after the car manufacturers.

[Justin]

Really poor argument. Putting my anti-gun hat on: ...and that's exactly why we need to make this a FEDERAL ban.

The best response there is to point out that the federal ban was a failure, and there's no data supporting the efficacy of any of the arbitrary state bans.

The TL;DR version is that there's no use in doubling down on failed policies.

[mcjhr]

I agree. It's all on deaf ears. Proponents brought facts and sources for those facts. Opposition brought emotional distress and "think of the children", "even if it might save one life", and a bunch of "might".

What really upset me was they let every columbine, Aurora, and Newtown family member speak. When it. Came time for the lady who got threatened by bikers they rushed her.

Let's vote these deaf politicians out.

[JohnnyDrama]

"Think of the children".

I was just thinking about the smile on my nephew's face when I let him blast through a 25 round magazine. I think he was 11 at the time.

[osok-308]

I agree. It's all on deaf ears. Proponents brought facts and sources for those facts. Opposition brought emotional distress and "think of the children", "even if it might save one life", and a bunch of "might".

What really upset me was they let every columbine, Aurora, and Newtown family member speak. When it. Came time for the lady who got threatened by bikers they rushed her.

Let's vote these deaf politicians out.

^^^this. If people won't listen to reason, there is only one thing to do... kick them out!

[Rucker61]

"Think of the children".

I was just thinking about the smile on my nephew's face when I let him blast through a 25 round magazine. I think he was 11 at the time.
If they wanted to save childrens' lives, they'd outlaw bicycles and swimming pools.

[StagLefty]

Todays audio http://coloradoga.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=5

Sorry first link was old one.

[Rucker61]

Mr. Burris sounded great.

[Rucker61]

Oooh, the race card.

[StagLefty]

Oooh, the race card.

Where the hell did that all come from ? Caught me by surprise.

[newracer]

This sounds like a replay of Monday's testimony.

[StagLefty]

This sounds like a replay of Monday's testimony.

A lot of the same people but I heard a few references to them testifying on Monday

[Rucker61]

It's obvious that no anti-gun control legislation will ever pass out of committee in the Senate, for the Democrats know full well that their slim majority counts for naught in these types of legislation, as Sen. Tochtrop, D-Thornton, will vote on the side of the 2nd Amendment, as she has in the past.

[Dlesh123]

It's obvious that no anti-gun control legislation will ever pass out of committee in the Senate, for the Democrats know full well that their slim majority counts for naught in these types of legislation, as Sen. Tochtrop, D-Thornton, will vote on the side of the 2nd Amendment, as she has in the past.
That is exactly why they sent these to the kill committee this year, so there was no chance of them being heard by the full chambers.

[StagLefty]

I'm surprised at how often that term "kill committee" is used by our pro-gun speakers and no one has raised an objection to the term.

[OneGuy67]

Voted down 3-2 and the bill sponsor pulled the bill from consideration.

[StagLefty]

Did I hear that right "the bill is postponed" ?

[SenHolbert]

Did I hear that right "the bill is postponed"?

The phrase "postponed indefinitely" translates to "it is impossible for the bill to appear on the Calendar again."

In the Colorado General Assembly, every matter of official business that comes before the House, Senate, or a committee in either chamber must be scheduled and appear on the Calendar of the appropriate chamber (House or Senate). When a motion is passed to postpone indefinitely a certain bill, then that bill cannot be brought up again. There is no motion to "kill the bill," that action simply doesn't exist. Likewise, during the committee process in each chamber, the proper motion to "pass" a bill out of one committee and to the next committee or to the floor (Committee of the Whole) is "I move (Bill Number) as amended (if applicable) to the (Committee Name) with a favorable recommendation." At that point, there is no motion to "pass" the bill. When a bill reaches the final, Third Reading, vote in either chamber, the motion by the Majority Leader or Assistant Majority Leader is "I move (Bill Number) on Third Reading and final passage" - so, at that point, we use the word "pass[age]."

It's a common question and/or non-starter point of discussion whether "postponed indefinitely" could mean some sneaky trick to bring the bill up at some later point, but that is not the case. The 2014 General Session must end at or before midnight, Wednesday, May 7, 2014. Any/all bills that have not completed 100% of the process by that second cannot be advanced in any future session of the General Assembly (General or Special). Thus, with Senate Bill 100, it cannot be on the Senate Calendar again during the 2014 General Session and, once the 2014 General Session ends at or before midnight, May 7, 2014, any/all unfinished business that was brought up during that session must be re-introduced at the staring point - as a new bill - with a new bill number - potentially with new a sponsor(s) - in a future session.

Take for example House Bill 11-1205, which was my first run at "Constitutional Carry" during my first session in the House (2011). That bill passed out of the House Judiciary Committee on an 8-3 vote. Representatives Kagan and Lee, both Democrats, joined the six Republicans in voting "Yes" on the bill. It then passed out of the House on a vote of 40-25 with all 33 Republicans, plus seven Democrats voting in favor of the bill. HB 11-1205 then went to the Senate where… yep… the five-member "kill committee" voted 3-2 to "postpone indefinitely HB 11-1205." That bill was dead. In 2012, the exact wording of House Bill 11-1205 was introduced by Representative Kevin Priola as a House Bill 12-1092 (I ran "Make My Day Better" in 2012). So, HB 12-1092 was the exact same wording as HB 11-1205, but 12-1092 had to start at the very beginning of the process. The 2012 bill didn't get any "head start" due to what had passed in 2011. Different bill, different session. This is one example of how the Colorado General Assembly works differently than Congress in Washington, DC. A bill can hang around for two years in Congress. In the Colorado General Assembly, a bill has a maximum life of 120 days during the annual General Assembly. It either passes completely into law (signed by the Governor) or it must start over again as a new bill in a future session.

[The Rat]

RepHolbert, thank you for your explanation. Very glad to have you keeping us informed here!

[HoneyBadger]

Thanks for the response Chris. If there is anything you think we should be doing to win these battles, please tell us!

[Rucker61]

More fodder for thought: The Democrats claim that reducing magazine capacity will save lives. How many lives? Let’s find out. First, I think we can agree that the only time magazine capacity limitations could ever affect the outcome of a crime is during an active shooter mass casualty event with 16 or more shots fired. The FBI has a nice collection of data on active shooter mass casualty events, henceforth ASMC, at http://leb.fbi.gov/2014/january/active-shooter-events-from-2000-to-2012. Using this data, we can estimate the number of active shooter events in the US per year to be 15, trending upwards, so let’s use 20. Looking at the history of ASMC events, we can estimate some number of shots fired based on number of people killed. Let’s say 15 shots kills ten people. Of all ASMC events, only 17% exceed ten people killed. Likewise, we should discount the events where pistols or shotguns were the primary weapon, as 15 round magazine limitations likely don’t apply, so only 26% of ASMC had any kind of rifle as the primary weapon. Let’s take a conservative position and saw that all of these were MSRs.
We have two other factors to estimate: the probability that an ASMC takes place in Colorado, as HB 13-1224 only applies there, and the probability that the shooter is totally unable to get any magazines greater than 15 rounds and is thus limited by law. Colorado is only one of fifty states, but the Denver metro area does seem to have more than the normal complement of crazies, so instead of 2% lets go with 10%. Let’s go with the same number for the chance that a shooter can’t get 30 round magazines, even though that number is closer to zero. You can play around with those probabilities for sensitivity analysis, but that’s left as an exercise for the reader.
Given these numbers, let’s calculate the odds. Number of events = 20. Percent using > 15 shots, 17%. Percent using an “assault weapon” = 26%. Happens in Colorado = 10%. Can’t get 30 round magazines = 10%. Multiplying these out we get 20 x .17 x .26 x .1 x .1 = 0.0087. Now, according to the FBI charts from the ASMC webpage, we’re trending towards 60 people killed each year in ASMC events. 60 x .0087 = .52. That’s a half person that is likely to be saved each year by a 15 round magazine capacity limit, given the constraints above. In ten years that can be extended to 5 lives saved.
According to the CDC’s WISQARs injury/fatality database, in the ten year period from 2001 to 2010, for the population of children 17 and under, 563 drowned in bathtubs, 2,825 drowned in pools and 1,434 died in bicycle accidents. If we use the ratio Colorado’s population to the US population to estimate Colorado’s share of those deaths, we see that over a ten year period we can estimate that 9 children will drown in the bathtub, 47 will drown in a swimming pool and 24 will be killed riding while riding their bicycles. If we passed legislation prohibiting any of these activities, more children would be saved many times over the amount that the feel good HB 13-1224 could be expected to save. Of course, the Democrats will argue that bicycles, tubs and pools have legitimate uses and 30 magazines are only useful to kill large amounts of people in a short time, but given that the FBI shows that large capacity magazines are indeed only used to kill large amounts of people in a short time about 0.86 times a year while the other tens of millions of 30 round magazines owned by the public and law enforcement are evidently used for purposes that don’t kill large amounts of people in a short time, that argument is easily countered.

[newracer]

More fodder for thought: The Democrats claim that reducing magazine capacity will save lives. How many lives? Let’s find out. First, I think we can agree that the only time magazine capacity limitations could ever affect the outcome of a crime is during an active shooter mass casualty event with 16 or more shots fired. The FBI has a nice collection of data on active shooter mass casualty events, henceforth ASMC, at http://leb.fbi.gov/2014/january/active-shooter-events-from-2000-to-2012. Using this data, we can estimate the number of active shooter events in the US per year to be 15, trending upwards, so let’s use 20. Looking at the history of ASMC events, we can estimate some number of shots fired based on number of people killed. Let’s say 15 shots kills ten people. Of all ASMC events, only 17% exceed ten people killed. Likewise, we should discount the events where pistols or shotguns were the primary weapon, as 15 round magazine limitations likely don’t apply, so only 26% of ASMC had any kind of rifle as the primary weapon. Let’s take a conservative position and saw that all of these were MSRs.
We have two other factors to estimate: the probability that an ASMC takes place in Colorado, as HB 13-1224 only applies there, and the probability that the shooter is totally unable to get any magazines greater than 15 rounds and is thus limited by law. Colorado is only one of fifty states, but the Denver metro area does seem to have more than the normal complement of crazies, so instead of 2% lets go with 10%. Let’s go with the same number for the chance that a shooter can’t get 30 round magazines, even though that number is closer to zero. You can play around with those probabilities for sensitivity analysis, but that’s left as an exercise for the reader.
Given these numbers, let’s calculate the odds. Number of events = 20. Percent using > 15 shots, 17%. Percent using an “assault weapon” = 26%. Happens in Colorado = 10%. Can’t get 30 round magazines = 10%. Multiplying these out we get 20 x .17 x .26 x .1 x .1 = 0.0087. Now, according to the FBI charts from the ASMC webpage, we’re trending towards 60 people killed each year in ASMC events. 60 x .0087 = .52. That’s a half person that is likely to be saved each year by a 15 round magazine capacity limit, given the constraints above. In ten years that can be extended to 5 lives saved.
According to the CDC’s WISQARs injury/fatality database, in the ten year period from 2001 to 2010, for the population of children 17 and under, 563 drowned in bathtubs, 2,825 drowned in pools and 1,434 died in bicycle accidents. If we use the ratio Colorado’s population to the US population to estimate Colorado’s share of those deaths, we see that over a ten year period we can estimate that 9 children will drown in the bathtub, 47 will drown in a swimming pool and 24 will be killed riding while riding their bicycles. If we passed legislation prohibiting any of these activities, more children would be saved many times over the amount that the feel good HB 13-1224 could be expected to save. Of course, the Democrats will argue that bicycles, tubs and pools have legitimate uses and 30 magazines are only useful to kill large amounts of people in a short time, but given that the FBI shows that large capacity magazines are indeed only used to kill large amounts of people in a short time about 0.86 times a year while the other tens of millions of 30 round magazines owned by the public and law enforcement are evidently used for purposes that don’t kill large amounts of people in a short time, that argument is easily countered.

Their response would be "It is worth it if it only saves one life."

[BPTactical]

More fodder for thought: The Democrats claim that reducing magazine capacity will save lives. How many lives? Let’s find out. First, I think we can agree that the only time magazine capacity limitations could ever affect the outcome of a crime is during an active shooter mass casualty event with 16 or more shots fired. The FBI has a nice collection of data on active shooter mass casualty events, henceforth ASMC, at http://leb.fbi.gov/2014/january/active-shooter-events-from-2000-to-2012. Using this data, we can estimate the number of active shooter events in the US per year to be 15, trending upwards, so let’s use 20. Looking at the history of ASMC events, we can estimate some number of shots fired based on number of people killed. Let’s say 15 shots kills ten people. Of all ASMC events, only 17% exceed ten people killed. Likewise, we should discount the events where pistols or shotguns were the primary weapon, as 15 round magazine limitations likely don’t apply, so only 26% of ASMC had any kind of rifle as the primary weapon. Let’s take a conservative position and saw that all of these were MSRs.
We have two other factors to estimate: the probability that an ASMC takes place in Colorado, as HB 13-1224 only applies there, and the probability that the shooter is totally unable to get any magazines greater than 15 rounds and is thus limited by law. Colorado is only one of fifty states, but the Denver metro area does seem to have more than the normal complement of crazies, so instead of 2% lets go with 10%. Let’s go with the same number for the chance that a shooter can’t get 30 round magazines, even though that number is closer to zero. You can play around with those probabilities for sensitivity analysis, but that’s left as an exercise for the reader.
Given these numbers, let’s calculate the odds. Number of events = 20. Percent using > 15 shots, 17%. Percent using an “assault weapon” = 26%. Happens in Colorado = 10%. Can’t get 30 round magazines = 10%. Multiplying these out we get 20 x .17 x .26 x .1 x .1 = 0.0087. Now, according to the FBI charts from the ASMC webpage, we’re trending towards 60 people killed each year in ASMC events. 60 x .0087 = .52. That’s a half person that is likely to be saved each year by a 15 round magazine capacity limit, given the constraints above. In ten years that can be extended to 5 lives saved.
According to the CDC’s WISQARs injury/fatality database, in the ten year period from 2001 to 2010, for the population of children 17 and under, 563 drowned in bathtubs, 2,825 drowned in pools and 1,434 died in bicycle accidents. If we use the ratio Colorado’s population to the US population to estimate Colorado’s share of those deaths, we see that over a ten year period we can estimate that 9 children will drown in the bathtub, 47 will drown in a swimming pool and 24 will be killed riding while riding their bicycles. If we passed legislation prohibiting any of these activities, more children would be saved many times over the amount that the feel good HB 13-1224 could be expected to save. Of course, the Democrats will argue that bicycles, tubs and pools have legitimate uses and 30 magazines are only useful to kill large amounts of people in a short time, but given that the FBI shows that large capacity magazines are indeed only used to kill large amounts of people in a short time about 0.86 times a year while the other tens of millions of 30 round magazines owned by the public and law enforcement are evidently used for purposes that don’t kill large amounts of people in a short time, that argument is easily countered.


You seem to forget that factual, verifiable data, logic and common sense mean absolutely nothing to a liberal.
Find a way to integrate you facts into an emotional and irrational argument and you may just get somewhere.

Mr Holbert, thank you for taking the time out of a busy schedule to keep us lowly serfs accurately informed.[Beer]
We need to take you to breakfast and out shooting some day.

[Rucker61]

Their response would be "It is worth it if it only saves one life."

To which I'd respond, let's make kids on bikes illegal and save 24 kids.

[Zundfolge]

More fodder for thought: The Democrats claim that reducing magazine capacity will save lives. How many lives? Let’s find out. First, I think we can agree that the only time magazine capacity limitations could ever affect the outcome of a crime is during an active shooter mass casualty event with 16 or more shots fired. The FBI has a nice collection of data on active shooter mass casualty events, henceforth ASMC, at http://leb.fbi.gov/2014/january/active-shooter-events-from-2000-to-2012. Using this data, we can estimate the number of active shooter events in the US per year to be 15, trending upwards, so let’s use 20. Looking at the history of ASMC events, we can estimate some number of shots fired based on number of people killed. Let’s say 15 shots kills ten people. Of all ASMC events, only 17% exceed ten people killed. Likewise, we should discount the events where pistols or shotguns were the primary weapon, as 15 round magazine limitations likely don’t apply, so only 26% of ASMC had any kind of rifle as the primary weapon. Let’s take a conservative position and saw that all of these were MSRs.
We have two other factors to estimate: the probability that an ASMC takes place in Colorado, as HB 13-1224 only applies there, and the probability that the shooter is totally unable to get any magazines greater than 15 rounds and is thus limited by law. Colorado is only one of fifty states, but the Denver metro area does seem to have more than the normal complement of crazies, so instead of 2% lets go with 10%. Let’s go with the same number for the chance that a shooter can’t get 30 round magazines, even though that number is closer to zero. You can play around with those probabilities for sensitivity analysis, but that’s left as an exercise for the reader.
Given these numbers, let’s calculate the odds. Number of events = 20. Percent using > 15 shots, 17%. Percent using an “assault weapon” = 26%. Happens in Colorado = 10%. Can’t get 30 round magazines = 10%. Multiplying these out we get 20 x .17 x .26 x .1 x .1 = 0.0087. Now, according to the FBI charts from the ASMC webpage, we’re trending towards 60 people killed each year in ASMC events. 60 x .0087 = .52. That’s a half person that is likely to be saved each year by a 15 round magazine capacity limit, given the constraints above. In ten years that can be extended to 5 lives saved.
According to the CDC’s WISQARs injury/fatality database, in the ten year period from 2001 to 2010, for the population of children 17 and under, 563 drowned in bathtubs, 2,825 drowned in pools and 1,434 died in bicycle accidents. If we use the ratio Colorado’s population to the US population to estimate Colorado’s share of those deaths, we see that over a ten year period we can estimate that 9 children will drown in the bathtub, 47 will drown in a swimming pool and 24 will be killed riding while riding their bicycles. If we passed legislation prohibiting any of these activities, more children would be saved many times over the amount that the feel good HB 13-1224 could be expected to save. Of course, the Democrats will argue that bicycles, tubs and pools have legitimate uses and 30 magazines are only useful to kill large amounts of people in a short time, but given that the FBI shows that large capacity magazines are indeed only used to kill large amounts of people in a short time about 0.86 times a year while the other tens of millions of 30 round magazines owned by the public and law enforcement are evidently used for purposes that don’t kill large amounts of people in a short time, that argument is easily countered.

The flaw in your math here is that you're assuming that an ASMC will end when the shooter empties the magazine and/or that stopping to reload will reduce the death toll.

Keep in mind that when the Aurora shooter's AR jammed (because he had a cheap ass 100 rd drum) the amount of time for him to realize the AR was jammed and to transition to his shotgun would be significantly longer then the amount of time it would take the average, semi-to-untrained person to drop the mag, slap a new one in and hit the bolt release.

So I figure the number of lives saved by the magazine ban would be much closer to zero. Furthermore how many self defensive shootings have involved more than 15 rounds? If you have even one that was successful, you could make the claim that the magazine ban could have caused that SD shooting to go the other way, so I think the case can be made that not only will the mag ban save ZERO lives, its more likely to COST lives than save any.



All that said, as has been pointed out before, the antis aren't motivated by facts, logic, reason or even saving lives. They are desperate little r-selective creatures (http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/how-r-and-k-type-psychologies-affect-societies-and-what-this-means-for-our-political-dialog/) suffering from NPD and trying to keep their amygdalas from being hijacked (http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/touching-the-raw-amygdala-an-analysis-of-liberal-debate-tactics-preface/) by thoughts that make them feel bad.

[Rucker61]

The flaw in your math here is that you're assuming that an ASMC will end when the shooter empties the magazine and/or that stopping to reload will reduce the death toll. That' snot my claim, it's what the Democrats who supported the legislation claim, that any delay in the magazine reloading transition will allow some amount of folks to either escape or subdue the shooter. It's not at all guaranteed likely to happen during any magazine change, but that's what they are basing their argument upon. It's an unlikely, best case scenario for their claim, and even in this best case it's not effective. The great flaw in their argument is that they're seemingly willing to allow or unable to prevent the shooter from acquiring his weapons, accessing a gun-free zone so equipped and shooting up at least one magazine of ammunition at deliberately unarmed targets. I don't know why no one in chambers ever called them on their willingness to allow the first set of deaths in an ASMC.
So I figure the number of lives saved by the magazine ban would be much closer to zero. Furthermore how many self defensive shootings have involved more than 15 rounds? If you have even one that was successful, you could make the claim that the magazine ban could have caused that SD shooting to go the other way, so I think the case can be made that not only will the mag ban save ZERO lives, its more likely to COST lives than save any.
It's obvious to us that of course, but as a quantitative kind of guy I like to have realistic numbers to back my arguments. Interesting that they base this entire law on the fact that some kids were lucky enough to escape during a magazine change at Sandy Hook, where the shooter had the opportunity to change his magazine outside of the classroom where he entered and ran out of ammo after shooting just two victims. They also ignore that some magazines did have up to 15 rounds still in them, meaning he did change after shooting only 15 or so rounds.

[KAPA]

Their response would be "It is worth it if it only saves one life."


Not if it puts the people at risk of not being able to fight tyranny.