KaBoom

[SamuraiCO]

Yep it hapenened. Not to me but to my friend shooting ammo I reloaded.

He purchased a new Glock 36 a month ago. Two weeks ago we ran 100 rounds through it. Full disclosure it had problems feeding ammo from the get go. We cycled a few rounds until it chambered one and ran well after that. I thought it might be tight being brand new. After shooting we broke it down, cleaned and lubed. He remembers when we loaded it with some defense rounds it still had a feeding problem. I don't remember but I am not questioning his memory. I'm still thinking it's a Glock they are indestructible, always fire, reliable etc, not thinking something may be wrong with the weapon. Not saying it wasn't my reload either and probably that vs the weapon.

Forward to this weekend. We meet to shoot for an hour. He has 100 rounds of once fired brass that I reloaded for him. I was using brass that is on its fifth reload. My loads are 5.3gr Hodgdon Titegroup, Berry's 185gr HBRN, and CCI primers. Brass mostly starline with some once fired range. I got my original info for powder, bullets and depth from Mike Hughes (RIP). Seated depth checked periodically with micrometer and the small do dad (forgetting name right now) that you drop loaded rounds to verify the length and crimp for propper seating. Loader is a Dillon 550.

My profession is a pharmacist and I tend to lean on the attention to detail, routine is important because you will see mistakes easier if there is deviations in routine. Just the way it works. Kind of like our driving we have processed and so much is routine and react faster then teen drivers distracted by everything. Sometimes we home and don't remember the drive it is so automatic.

My Kimber has eaten this load with no problems. Thousands of rounds. No misfires or missing powder charges. Nothing. I let him have the lane first while I load my mags. He runs one full mag no problems. Runs the second and experiences the fail. Nothing sounds different he walks over to me and says his gun jammed and won't cycle. Yep little shock and brain not processing. We get RM for first aid kit his trigger finger was burned and blast tore open the skin. My mind is racing as to what I did wrong and I have hurt my friend. The whole time he its cool accidents happen no I'm not going to the ER. We clear with the RM his gun is ok to move. I load some of the loads I made for him and they fire fine. Others at the range are all enamored and want pics. Funny thing the RM had pics of two other guns with KaBooms, both Glocks. Again not saying anything I assume it was my reload and I missed something.

ER visit, no stiches. They xray, ultrasound looking for foreign objects. Wound flushed and bandaged, no stiches needed. He did two sets of cross fit the next day.

So I am taking away not to assume with my reloads, I will add a magnifying light to the table for better inspection of my brass and finished loads. Will add more quality checks when I am reloading. I will make no assumptions about a weapon especially during the break in period. I know the reloads will void any warrenty and will be paying for his replacement. I am so greatful he was relatively unharmed.

I share this so we can learn from each other. Never forget the smallest of mistakes can be bad. I hope for some good feedback and will take the criticism. I will update if we get any feedback from Glock if they want him to send for analysis.



And now what you were waiting for.....


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[J]

From what I can tell based on Hodgdon's data, you were loading 0.1grs from MAX, and you threw them into another gun without work up. Maybe you had some data I don't that says this was a moderate or conservative load... please let me know.

Just because a load works in one gun, especially near max load, does not mean that it is OK in another gun without working it up again. This is the case regardless of the load (as you found here), be it moderate or hot loaded. ALWAYS work a load up, or be prepared to deal with what happens on the slight chance it goes wrong.

[SamuraiCO]

I will also look at that again thought max load was much higher. When I worked this powder I never got to max and backed down to my middle load range because it shot good at that charge.

Just looked at the site. Max is 5.5 I am at 5.3gr doing this from work from memory.

Thanks for the feedback.

[davsel]

What does the barrel look like? Bulged?

[SamuraiCO]

No upper all looks good. Everything blew out through trigger and mag.

[TFOGGER]

I'm wondering if maybe the feeding problem might have set the bullet back in the case, raising the pressure?

[Great-Kazoo]

From what I can tell based on Hodgdon's data, you were loading 0.1grs from MAX, and you threw them into another gun without work up. Maybe you had some data I don't that says this was a moderate or conservative load... please let me know.

Just because a load works in one gun, especially near max load, does not mean that it is OK in another gun without working it up again. This is the case regardless of the load (as you found here), be it moderate or hot loaded. ALWAYS work a load up, or be prepared to deal with what happens on the slight chance it goes wrong.

To add to J's reply. IF it's' a new gun and has feeding problems. The LAST Thing i would do is use reloads. 3-500 rds before most firearms are broken / bugs, issues are worked out.
Not to mention you're running very close to MAX???? WHY?

[SamuraiCO]

I looked this am 5.3gr powder not 5.4gr. Was doing from work last night. Yes I agree should have been factory loads until broke in. That is the most important piece I missed.

Realy appreciate the feedback.

[J]

What are you using to throw charges?

[BuffCyclist]

This is definitely something that scares me being relatively new to reloading. I do not let anyone use my reloads because a) I can't sell the reloads to them without the proper FFL b) because I don't give away free ammo and c) because I don't want to deal with arguing with the friend afterwards that I told them the of the risks associated with shooting reloads through their firearm and that I am not responsible to replace their firearm if something happened.

As such, I have never let anyone shoot my reloads through their own firearm. I have let friends shoot my reloads, through my pistols, after I've shot 500-1k of that specific load in that specific firearm to ensure reliability.

This is probably one of the things that scares me enough where I don't have to justify my OCD habits to my wife when it comes to reloading.

It would be interesting to know what the reason was for this particular kaboom, whether it was a double charge, deeper bullet seating depth, squib/live round (though I presume not since you didn't mention the bullet being stuck in the barrel). Any chance you are able to get the slide off the frame (since you have to pull the trigger to disassemble it, I'm guessing it'll be difficult).

Glad he was mostly unharmed, could have been a lot worse I'm sure.

[trlcavscout]

My book shows 5.3 max for titegroup in 185's. I normally stay in the 4.2-4.9 in 185's and 200's. Titegroup is fairly hot and pretty unforgiving when loaded that high.

Could have thrown a little extra charge? Squib? Bullet set back? I wouldn't sweat running reloads in new guns, I don't shoot factory ammo so I only use reloads, if it jammed and set the bullet back it could be a problem.

I would and have let my mom, wife and kids shoot my reloads. But I measure powder different then most do.

[Circuits]

hot load in reloaded brass in a partially unsupported glock chamber - blew out down where the feed ramp doesn't support the brass fully. sounds like brass fatigue pure and simple, and only not an issue in your pistol because it offers better chamber support for weak brass.

[BPTactical]

That'll buff out......

[Zombie Steve]

First, you're using a plated bullet. It's not just plug and play with jacketed data. Unless the plating is very thick (think gold dot), you'll max out well before you reach the top of the jacketed data. The hollow base of this bullet also changes its bearing surface... data just isn't going to track well. I'm guessing you were in +P range in pressure.

Next - on the high side of pressure isn't going to blast out your frame like that. Assuming you didn't find a bullet lodged in the barrel, this was a double charge of a very fast burning powder, plain and simple. The fact that TG isn't very bulky at all makes it really hard to spot a double in the case. Use something like Unique and a double charge is very easy to spot.

Things that can help - get a light on your press so you can see into the cases well. If you need to walk away from the 550 for a second, leave it on the down stroke. When you come back, you'll know exactly what happened last. Put a bullet on top of the newly charged case immediately after inspection / BEFORE you index to the seating station. If you get distracted for a second and look back, you won't be able to double charge. My last bit of advice - don't drive fast powders hard. If you want velocity, use a slower burning powder.

Glad nobody got seriously hurt.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

1st off, I'm glad he's OK.

2nd, Berry bullets are Platted bullets and should Only use lead bullet data. Acording to Loaddata.com you are at max for lead cast at 5.3 and with the hollow back, you should start at Minimum powder charge. The hollow back can mushroom from the inside if loaded to hot. Regardless of who's data and what firearm you use!!

3rd, Crimp can play a major factor in preasure and in feeding. I tend to use a Taper Crimp on all my semi-auto rounds for a smooth side bullet. Roll crimp for bullets with a canalure.

4th, If it's a new firearm. Everything, action, mag, trigger, springs, etc. needs to be broken in before using reloads IMHO.

In this case it sounds as if a single round hit the feed ramp " hence the feeding problem " with a not so properly crimped round and drove the bullet to seat deeper as it chambered. And increaced the preasure beyond what a Kimber " Steel " frame pistol could handle. And a " Glock " polomar frame could Not handle. Thus a KaaaBooomm!! And by by Glock. And lucky your friend still has a hand.

But that's just one mans opinion.

[SideShow Bob]

Did you check / trim case length ? 5X reloads, you could have had some stretching on the cases. Hense the chambering problems.
Do G-Locks have a fully supported chamber ? Looks like it ruptured at the base of the case and blew out the side right where a unsupported chamber would.

And as previously stated, Do Not reload for or give anyone reloads. The only time anyone else shoots my reloads, are in my firearms.

[Zombie Steve]

1st off, I'm glad he's OK.

2nd, Berry bullets are Platted bullets and should Only use lead bullet data. Acording to Loaddata.com you are at max for lead cast at 5.3 and with the hollow back, you should start at Minimum powder charge. The hollow back can mushroom from the inside if loaded to hot. Regardless of who's data and what firearm you use!!

3rd, Crimp can play a major factor in preasure and in feeding. I tend to use a Taper Crimp on all my semi-auto rounds for a smooth side bullet. Roll crimp for bullets with a canalure.

4th, If it's a new firearm. Everything, action, mag, trigger, springs, etc. needs to be broken in before using reloads IMHO.

In this case it sounds as if a single round hit the feed ramp " hence the feeding problem " with a not so properly crimped round and drove the bullet to seat deeper as it chambered. And increaced the preasure beyond what a Kimber " Steel " frame pistol could handle. And a " Glock " polomar frame could Not handle. Thus a KaaaBooomm!! And by by Glock. And lucky your friend still has a hand.

But that's just one mans opinion.

Taper crimp might have something to do with feeding, but not much to do with neck tension (that comes from the sizing die). All you should be doing is removing the flare you put in the case. If you're going beyond that, you're crushing the bullet and ruining any chance for accuracy.

[jerrymrc]

I will just say two things. 1. As others have said I never let ANYONE fire my loads but me. Never had an issue but murphy's law always applies. 2 I know many want to get the maxim amount of rounds per lb and choose powders accordingly but since I load rifle rounds that get 180 per lb the thought of "well I get 1200 rds VS 900" in pistol is a moot point for me.

Ever since one accident by a friend I use a powder that if I double charge it is over the top of the case. Everything from 9X18 to 45ACP I load with it and it has served me well. Just a thought.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

Taper crimp might have something to do with feeding, but not much to do with neck tension (that comes from the sizing die). All you should be doing is removing the flare you put in the case. If you're going beyond that, you're crushing the bullet and ruining any chance for accuracy.
Taper crimp does have to do with bullet tension. It's a... what's the word I'm looking for. Friction tension aka surface tension. Also helps to prevent the bullet from being forced back into the case on feeding for semi autos. Revolver loads I do agree just remove the flare with a slight roll crimp. Sizing die? Are you talking case or bullet sizer? If one flares out the neck to far sizing the brass. It defeats the purpose of the sizing die. ?? That's all I'm saying. [Beer]

But I do trust Dillon dies and all their semi auto dies, pistol and rifle, come standard with a taper crimp die as the final press. No roll crimp for semi auto.

[SamuraiCO]

I really appreciate the feedback. My father passed a few years back and my reload mentor bugged out to Oklahoma so all your input has been very helpful. Need another mentor in the Parker area.

From the feedback I should redo the load data starting in the 4.2 to 5.0 range. I have lots of TG so I will stick with it and loved the suggestions given by Zombie Steve for my QA in my reload process. Does that sound right? The brass was only once fired that I reloaded for my buddies gun and I inspect my brass after tumbling and before reloading. I do need to get a crono and will order sooner than later.

Not over crimping I checked with caliper with first round of reloads.


Will check in with my buddy tomorrow at the dojo. We were not able to clear the chamber at the range so I don't know what the spent brass looks like yet. I will see if he contacted Glock. If there is nothing they can do I have several options for purchasing a replacement for him. I also was given the name for someone that I can contact to look at who is a Glock cert gunsmith.

Again the input has been most appreciated. Reloading adds another aspect to the enjoyment of the sport like tying flies for fly fishing or training your own gun dog. I want nothing more than to keep it safe as possible and not waste powder when I don't have to.

[SideShow Bob]

Give Bert with BP Tactical a call, industry pandner here, I am sure he is G-Lock certified, I think I saw a Cert. hanging on his shop wall.

[Rabid]

Taper crimp does have to do with bullet tension. It's a... what's the word I'm looking for. Friction tension aka surface tension. Also helps to prevent the bullet from being forced back into the case on feeding for semi autos. Revolver loads I do agree just remove the flare with a slight roll crimp. Sizing die? Are you talking case or bullet sizer? If one flares out the neck to far sizing the brass. It defeats the purpose of the sizing die. ?? That's all I'm saying. [Beer]

But I do trust Dillon dies and all their semi auto dies, pistol and rifle, come standard with a taper crimp die as the final press. No roll crimp for semi auto.
You would have to put a massive flare to mess up what the sizing die did. When you crimp it you want to bring the dimensions back to (case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter) when you measure it on the outside. If you want to go a little beyond that because you are worried about set back you can but it may adversely effect your accuracy. When i reload 9mm and 40sw i bring it back to (case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter) and for 10mm i put less then a hair more crimp because i have had set back issues in the magazine.

[SamuraiCO]

When I know more and if we need it looked at I will call Bert. Thanks.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

You would have to put a massive flare to mess up what the sizing die did. When you crimp it you want to bring the dimensions back to (case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter) when you measure it on the outside. If you want to go a little beyond that because you are worried about set back you can but it may adversely effect your accuracy. When i reload 9mm and 40sw i bring it back to (case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter) and for 10mm i put less then a hair more crimp because i have had set back issues in the magazine.
Ohh I know. Believe you me I know. I've been reloading over 13 years now. Just trying to help figure out what happened and why to prevent someone from getting hurt and or killed in the future. That's all. Human safety 1st. Being killed or killing in self defense that's what I shoot for!!!!

[RANGERRON72]

THE FOLLOWING IS ALL CONJECTURE AND SPECULATION, but a different thought path............Berry's bullets are best at low to mid range velocities. Your load is max (or so I am told by the above posts, I don't load with Tite Group). You didn't chrono the load, so we can only assume high velocity, that might have been too high, and perhaps separated the plated jacket from the lead core. One part went down range, one part remained in the barrel of the glock (my guess would be the jacketed part remained)

Next round, fires and hits an obstruction in the barrel, not solid enough to block or bulge the barrel, but strong enough to create higher pressures, rupture the brass case and blow back down the mag well.

Your experience will remind me of these lessons.......with plated bullets, stay with mid range loads, be very careful about sharing reloads with friends (certainly stuff near max), and when possible, chrono loads with a small sample before you go into full Dillon 550 production (the machine I load on and typically do 500-1000 rounds at a time).



From the Berry Bullets web site FAQ: Is separation a problem with Plated Bullets?


Separation is very rare. Two things can cause a jacket to separate from the lead core: excessive speeds (magnum velocities) and a real tight roll crimp (cuts through the plating). If you'll keep these two items in check you shouldn't have a problem with bullet separation.




Thanks for sharing the experience, glad no one was hurt........and my above conjecture is purely a guess.

[Danimal]

I almost had the same thing happen with the exact same bullets. The HBRN bullets seal the chamber really really well and the concave base on them will boost pressure. When I first started to reload I built the exact same load that you described with tightgroup, but I started at 4.8 gn or so. I was getting smashed flat primers even down at 4.8 and there was a hell of a fireball. I knew that was not normal so I came back and posted on here. I had the 5.2 and 5.3's loaded up ready to go and had to take them all apart.

If the bullet got jammed back in there on a miss feed at all, then the pressures would have built up way to high for the brass. It would have failed where the exposed case wall meets the feed ramp on the barrel.

One thing that I did not see mentioned here was checking your primers after a shot. They will flatten out way before a brass failure. I always check primers and if they look too smashed I stop and pull all of the bullets anywhere near that load. Even loads that I have checked before, I still always look at the first few primers just to make sure. This is what I consider my last chance at catching a hot load.