Diagnose the Toyota.

[buffalobo]

Left home this morning, drive to Bennett, then to Colorado and Evans for a meeting. Parked in public garage. Came out of meeting no start. Lights, buzzers, accessories work but no turn over.

90 4 Runner, 3L V6.

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[Irving]

Is it in park or neutral?

[tmleadr03]

Does it go click click click and not turn over, or does it just not turn over?

Manual or auto?

[buffalobo]

Park

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[tmleadr03]

Is it in park or neutral?

If it is in P, put in N and try again.

[buffalobo]

Tried already, tried again just now. Nothing.

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[buffalobo]

Auto, just not turn over.

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[Irving]

Does your brake pedal activate a switch that allows the vehicle to start?

[tmleadr03]

Do you have a stick and a hammer? Do you know where the starter is?

If so you can combine this into getting your vehicle started. Smack the starter with the stick (place stick on starter, hit stick with hammer) and see if it will fire.

[Irving]

Do you have a stick and a hammer? Do you know where the starter is?

If so you can combine this into getting your vehicle started. Smack the starter with the stick (place stick on starter, hit stick with hammer) and see if it will fire.

That was going to be my next suggestion.

[Zombie Steve]

Start with the easy stuff first. See if someone can jump start it. If not, yank the battery and take it to a parts store where they can test it. New batteries aren't that bad. Next guess is starter / solenoid.


In addition to the hammer trick, sometimes you can jiggle the key in the ignition back and forth a little. As your teeth in the starter get worn down, sometimes they can sit against each other instead of being offset. Sounds like you don't have power now...

[buffalobo]

Not intimate with starter on 4 runner yet but sure I can find it. Will take me a minute to get my fat ass under there.

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[ruthabagah]

Does your brake pedal activate a switch that allows the vehicle to start?

+1 to this. This has been a weak spot for Toyota on the long run.

[buffalobo]

No clue what the issue is. Crawled under to whack starter, could not locate(underside is greasy muddy mess) crawled back out to get educated in starter location(top side of bell housing?), got in hit the key and it started. I had already tried all the suggestions except whack starter before I started thread. No clue what issue is.

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[Irving]

Must have been in sleep mode.

[Zombie Steve]

Ok... not battery. If the key jiggling thing works, you're due for a new starter. That trick will only work for so long.

[tmleadr03]

A switch or relay is on its way out.


Or the starter. But the switches and relays are easier to get to.

[buffalobo]

Must have been in sleep mode.

Or pissed that I been feeding it cheap off brand fuel. :what:

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[buffalobo]

Ok... not battery. If the key jiggling thing works, you're due for a new starter. That trick will only work for so long.

Talked to wife in the mean time. She said her and daughter had similar problem couple weeks ago. They left it and when they came out of store from shopping it started. :rolleyes:

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[buffalobo]

A switch or relay is on its way out.


Or the starter. But the switches and relays are easier to get to.

Best way to diagnose what the problem is?

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[tmleadr03]

Best way to diagnose what the problem is?

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Figure out what is wrong with it while it is not starting. Other wise you are just throwing parts at a problem that can not be reproduced. It is impossible to figure out what part is failing when it doesn't fail in front of you.

[buffalobo]

Figure out what is wrong with it while it is not starting. Other wise you are just throwing parts at a problem that can not be reproduced. It is impossible to figure out what part is failing when it doesn't fail in front of you.

But of course. Can't fix it til it's broke and it ain't broke no more. :banghead:

Next time it is crazy azz cold and would suck the worst is when I will get to fix it. :mad:

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[ChunkyMonkey]

Gotta love this forum.. thats all I got to say

[BushMasterBoy]

I had similar problem before. I went nuts changing changing parts. Finally I cleaned the battery terminals, the battery posts and the clamps with a wire brush! Fixed it, so I coated the cleaned connections in grease and reassembled.

[Rabid]

I am going to x3 on the brake switch for a maybe. Before you got is started do you know if your brake lights lit up when you pressed the brake pedal?

[buffalobo]

No switch on brake pedal. No contact with pedal needed.

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[buffalobo]

Battery cables and posts got cleaned and tightened 6 weeks ago at last oil change.

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[Rabid]

No switch on brake pedal. No contact with pedal needed.

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Yea, on second thought if you had no dash lights or buzzers its not going to be the starter or brake switch anyways. Maybe the contacts in the key cylinder are getting worn.

[tmleadr03]

Yea, on second thought if you had no dash lights or buzzers its not going to be the starter or brake switch anyways. Maybe the contacts in the key cylinder are getting worn.

He has lights on dash.

[buffalobo]

tmleadr, is the starter on top passenger side at bell housing? Where I really can complain about how hard it is to get to.

Might as well start getting ducks lined up for next time.

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[Danimal]

Was there a click when you tried to start? I ask because I had this exact same thing happen to my 1998 Tacoma with the same engine. It did this off and on for a month then finally the starter crapped out. I tried everything else first, relay, solenoid tested battery and it was just the actual starter needed to be replaced or rebuilt. But it acted just like you said, nothing, nothing, nothing then oh okay ill start now after a random amount of time. If it is the same thing that I went through it will leave you stranded a couple of times over the next month or two then it will crap out completely.

Also I agree with monkey, this forum is awesome.

[tmleadr03]

tmleadr, is the starter on top passenger side at bell housing? Where I really can complain about how hard it is to get to.

Might as well start getting ducks lined up for next time.

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http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/jimrockford_starter/jimrockford.htm

ETA: Could be worse. The BMW 650i has the starter under the intake manifold. 9 hours to replace.

[buffalobo]

http://www.yotatech.com/~corey/tech/jimrockford_starter/jimrockford.htm

ETA: Could be worse. The BMW 650i has the starter under the intake manifold. 9 hours to replace.

Great reference, helluva lot better than my Haynes manual. Thanks.

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[buffalobo]

Was there a click when you tried to start? I ask because I had this exact same thing happen to my 1998 Tacoma with the same engine. It did this off and on for a month then finally the starter crapped out. I tried everything else first, relay, solenoid tested battery and it was just the actual starter needed to be replaced or rebuilt. But it acted just like you said, nothing, nothing, nothing then oh okay ill start now after a random amount of time. If it is the same thing that I went through it will leave you stranded a couple of times over the next month or two then it will crap out completely.

Also I agree with monkey, this forum is awesome.

Kinda looking that way.

+3 on the forum and folks that hang here.

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[Rabid]

He has lights on dash.
Thought i read that right the first time, maybe i should stop double tasking. Well its going to be the starter, relays, batt conection or the brake switch. like Tmleadr said your not going to be able to figure out what it is unless it happens again. Are you saying you do not have to press the brake pedal to start your 4runner? There is a switch on your brake pedal it is on the top and on the right side. It is the silver cylinder in this photo.
41071

[buffalobo]

Do not have to depress brake pedal to start.

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[Rabid]

Do not have to depress brake pedal to start.

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Well with the brake switch and batt connections out that narrows down the search. My guess is the starter then, looking at the pictures in Tmleadr's link i am not sure giving it a wack is an option if it acts up again.

[Ah Pook]

Start with post #24 again.

Clean cables and battery posts and starter connections.
Do a load test on the battery.
Bushings in the starter can heat and expand, causing the the starter solenoid to not turn. Sometimes it will start after cool down. Look at replacing the starter.

[CHA-LEE]

Why not proactively clean up the battery terminal connections then replace the starter and relays then see if the non-starting issue continues? This is a 24 year old vehicle. How long do you expect any electro-mechanical component to last on a vehicle that old?

You can proactively replace these components on YOUR OWN schedule or wait for it to fail again at the most inopportune time. Choose wisely as one path is a lot more painful than another.

[buffalobo]

Why not proactively clean up the battery terminal connections then replace the starter and relays then see if the non-starting issue continues? This is a 24 year old vehicle. How long do you expect any electro-mechanical component to last on a vehicle that old?

You can proactively replace these components on YOUR OWN schedule or wait for it to fail again at the most inopportune time. Choose wisely as one path is a lot more painful than another.

Cables and clamps were serviced recently, starter already ordered(will be at store tomorrow AM), tmleadr posted a good repair reference and SIL has been drafted to assist after Saturday pistol match. :beer:

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[tmleadr03]

Cables and clamps were serviced recently, starter already ordered(will be at store tomorrow AM), tmleadr posted a good repair reference and SIL has been drafted to assist after Saturday pistol match. :beer:

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Replace relay at same time.

[buffalobo]

:thumbup:will do

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[clublights]

IF it happens again before you get a chance to swap the starter and relay ... the starter relay is often the exact same as the AC relay and you can swap those to see if it fixes the problem ..

I used that trick to help fix an old Jeep back when I was young and poor ( now I'm just old and poor)

[Irving]

Don't want to start a new thread.
So last night I desperately PM'd tmleadr03 about tips on purchasing a TDI. I thought for sure my '99 Cavalier was giving me a death rattle.
Monday it had a ticking that went from 'low oil valve tick' to 'that's closer to rod knock' level of sound. This morning it got louder and I noticed a significant lose of power. I gave the car until the end of the week.
I pulled it into the garage for a much needed oil change (different story altogether). After the oil change, I started it up with the hood still open and thought, 'that sure sounds an awful lot like an exhaust leak.' I putzed around under the hood and noticed that touching the #3 spark plug wire would change the sound. Yank the plug wire and found the plug was loose. Pulled plug expecting evidence of catastrophe. Nothing, just loose. Plugs look worn and could use a change, but after tightening everything up everything seems fine (except for the leaking oil like a sieve part). So, as I've often complained of before, the car I hate still continues to march forward. Looks like I might hit that 200,000 miles after all.

Thanks for the help tmleadr03. I'm still getting a TDI next.

[MED]

Don't want to start a new thread.
So last night I desperately PM'd tmleadr03 about tips on purchasing a TDI. I thought for sure my '99 Cavalier was giving me a death rattle.
Monday it had a ticking that went from 'low oil valve tick' to 'that's closer to rod knock' level of sound. This morning it got louder and I noticed a significant lose of power. I gave the car until the end of the week.
I pulled it into the garage for a much needed oil change (different story altogether). After the oil change, I started it up with the hood still open and thought, 'that sure sounds an awful lot like an exhaust leak.' I putzed around under the hood and noticed that touching the #3 spark plug wire would change the sound. Yank the plug wire and found the plug was loose. Pulled plug expecting evidence of catastrophe. Nothing, just loose. Plugs look worn and could use a change, but after tightening everything up everything seems fine (except for the leaking oil like a sieve part). So, as I've often complained of before, the car I hate still continues to march forward. Looks like I might hit that 200,000 miles after all.

Thanks for the help tmleadr03. I'm still getting a TDI next.

My friend was just under 350,000 miles on his '96 Cavalier before he destroyed with a deer strike.

[tmleadr03]

Don't want to start a new thread.
So last night I desperately PM'd tmleadr03 about tips on purchasing a TDI. I thought for sure my '99 Cavalier was giving me a death rattle.
Monday it had a ticking that went from 'low oil valve tick' to 'that's closer to rod knock' level of sound. This morning it got louder and I noticed a significant lose of power. I gave the car until the end of the week.
I pulled it into the garage for a much needed oil change (different story altogether). After the oil change, I started it up with the hood still open and thought, 'that sure sounds an awful lot like an exhaust leak.' I putzed around under the hood and noticed that touching the #3 spark plug wire would change the sound. Yank the plug wire and found the plug was loose. Pulled plug expecting evidence of catastrophe. Nothing, just loose. Plugs look worn and could use a change, but after tightening everything up everything seems fine (except for the leaking oil like a sieve part). So, as I've often complained of before, the car I hate still continues to march forward. Looks like I might hit that 200,000 miles after all.

Thanks for the help tmleadr03. I'm still getting a TDI next.

No question in my mind that TDIs are the best vehicle to get when it comes to VAG.

[Jer]

I don't have time to read the entire thread but that vintage Toyota is known to produce exactly those symptoms with higher mileage due to starter connections becoming corroded over time. Sometimes it will work sometimes it won't and smacking it with a heavy object while cranking will sometimes get it turned over. You can take it out & take it apart to clean the contacts on the plunger and such up and put it back together and it should run another 100k miles or so before needing to replace it. I went through this with my Supra.

[Bluerooster114]

Starter contacts and plunger are worn. This will get worse as is gets warmer when the metal is less conductive. Truck will start every time on a cold morning. Toyota will sell you the parts for relatively cheap. If the starter isn't the original, buy both configurations of contacts and return the ones you don't use. It takes minutes once the starter is out. There are a few videos on YouTube covering this fix.