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funkymonkey1111
02-18-2014, 14:30
Have you folks seen this?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/18/279184394/soldiers-fun-photo-with-flag-draped-coffin-sparks-outrage?utm_content=socialflow&utm_campaign=nprfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

Seems to be in poor taste

Two photos posted on Instagram by a member of the Wisconsin National Guard have caused an uproar on social media.
In one, 14 soldiers are seen joking around in front of what authorities say was an empty coffin draped with the American flag. The caption with that image reads, in part: "We put the FUN in funeral."
In the other, the soldier who put the pictures on the Web is seen in uniform. The caption with that photo reads: "It's so damn cold out....WHY have a funeral outside !? Somebody's getting a jacked up flag."
Monday afternoon, the Wisconsin National Guard said on its Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/WisconsinGuard/posts/10152214304268104?stream_ref=10) that the photos had been brought to its attention and "we are currently looking into the matter."
Today, the Wisconsin guard's public affairs office released a statement (http://dma.wi.gov/dma/news/2014news/14022.asp) that says, in part:

"While the photos and comments do not portray any misconduct during the performance of actual military funeral honors, Maj. Paul Rickert, the Wisconsin National Guard's director of public affairs, said he understands that their content is upsetting to many. The Wisconsin National Guard expects all Soldiers who carry out this sacred detail to handle it with professionalism and honor, he said.
" 'A military funeral is the final show of respect for our veterans and their families, and we take that solemn duty very seriously,' Rickert said. 'The very name 'military funeral honors' underscores the importance we ascribe — both as the military and society at large — to such solemn occasions. These photos and comments do not appear to align with those values.'
" 'We expect all of our Soldiers and Airmen to live by a core set of values, in word and deed,' Maj. Gen. Donald P. Dunbar, the Wisconsin adjutant general said. 'I was appalled by the offensive photos and comments that appeared on this Soldier's social media site regarding her duties as a funeral honor guard member.'
"Dunbar ordered an investigation into the matter."

According to the Wisconsin guard, "the group photo with the training casket was taken at the Professional Education Center, a National Guard training facility in North Little Rock, Ark." The image includes soldiers from other states, noe of whom had been identified as of early Tuesday afternoon. The Wisconsin soldier who posted it "has been indefinitely suspended from the funeral honors detail pending an investigation into the matter," according to her commanders.
The Wisconsin guard says the soldier is Spc. Terry Harrison. Its press release adds that measures have been taken to ensure her safety, "following threats [she] received via social media." Wisconsin's WISN-TV says (http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/photos-posted-by-wis-national-guard-member-sparks-outrage-online/24532238#ixzz2tgUfWXus) the soldier told the station "she's been receiving death threats."
Her Instagram account has been wiped from the Web. The images, however, have been copied and can be seen on the Wisconsin guard's Facebook page in the comments about them. The messages on that page are emotional and at times heart-breaking. For example:

"I would like to point out as the wife of a fallen soldier that these pictures raise so many questions that shouldn't be raised by Gold Star Families.
"I wonder if my husband was treated with the dignity and respect he deserved. Did his honor guard make jokes about being at his service or complain about being there? I know other widows whose flags are folded improperly and it's raised the question of whether it was folded incorrectly out of spite.
"These are painful thoughts to even have surface. We want to know our loved one lost was treated with the utmost dignity and respect. I do believe an apology to all Gold Star Families is due and reassurance that proper disciplinary actions are going to be taken. And what steps will be taken to ensure that something this disrespectful NEVER occurs again.
"I am coming up on my 2 year mark this week and these are the last things I want to question. I just want to survive this week."

One person who has commented on the guard's Facebook page offers a link and some advice to the soldiers in the photo with the coffin: "They should read this (http://dma.wi.gov/dma/news/2014news/14022.asp)." It's a gripping account of what it was like for passengers on a Delta flight to find out that a fallen soldier's body was being brought home aboard the plane. Here's one particularly relevant passage:

"To see the Honor Guard and family waiting patiently, while LAX baggage handlers and a military loadmaster remove the flag covered casket first from the cargo hold, was humbling to say the least. I'm not sure if it was the fallen soldier's mother or wife who I watched slowly walk up to the coffin while a few other family members, wrapped in blankets, stood near with a dozen or so of the Honor Guards standing in salute.
"As soon as I saw her reach out to put her hand on her baby's casket, I walked away.
"This ordinary flight became extraordinary and is one that I will never forget.
"Thank you to all the military who protect our beautiful country and let us live the lives we are able to lead. Without you we would be nothing. And thank you to the Honor Guard for making sure these fallen soldiers, warriors and heroes are not treated like just any piece of luggage as they used to, but rather with the care and respect they so rightly deserve."

Monky
02-18-2014, 14:42
OMGWTFBBQ Ban all the fun!

Ronin13
02-18-2014, 14:51
They should all be NJP'd and the NCO should be be disciplined, I read on one FB page that he/she defended the soldiers. That's conduct unbecoming of a Non-Commissioned Officer, and thus this individual should be demoted and barred from promotion. I oversaw some of the S3 tasks associated with Funeral Details while our unit had it for 45 days in the Northeast, all the soldiers on the detail treated it with the utmost reverence and honor. Seeing this just saddens me and makes me feel great disappointment in the future of our beloved military.

BigBear
02-18-2014, 17:07
I understand it's a hard and emotional job, I understand the need for some release and morbid humor. However, they should know (or really need a reminder) not to post that stuff in today's world.

For full disclosure, I did laugh a bit. I don't think they meant it as a serious picture... Then again, in today's world...

I respect all our military forces. Thank you so much for putting your life and future on the line every day for our safety. You are all truly hero's who deserve so much more in life than you get credit for.

ZERO THEORY
02-18-2014, 19:00
FYI: it's gone up all the way to the Pentagon as of this morning and some serious ass kicking is going to be done shortly. Stay tuned.

USMC_5-Echo
02-18-2014, 20:31
I don't care who they are or why they did it. That person put their life on the line and now their family gets to deal with stuff like this? Disrespect is disrespect, I say they all deserve a good ole Marine Corps boot to the face.

Guylee
02-18-2014, 20:44
You tend to take it a little more seriously when it's one of your friends in that box.

I have absolutely no sympathy for these people for whatever consequences they face.

Irving
02-18-2014, 21:01
Wasn't the casket empty for the photo?

funkymonkey1111
02-18-2014, 21:11
Wasn't the casket empty for the photo?

Yes, second sentence in article

flogger
02-18-2014, 21:20
Far cry from the video of the New Zealand Army Maori sendoff for a few months back.

These folks should know better than that, shame on them.

Punkface
02-18-2014, 21:32
Taking a fuck around photo for fun is one thing. Was a very bad idea to take one with a casket with a flag draped over it though.

No mercy for the judgement handed down on them. That NCO should have reprimanded them instead of supporting them as well.

cstone
02-18-2014, 21:49
Just another example of me being old.

Why does everyone feel the need to photograph everything? Then, so many people today seem to feel the need to post said photographs online for everyone to see.

Does anyone remember the Nicholas Proffitt novel Gardens of Stone? There was a scene where some of the Old Guard during the Vietnam War were involved in five or six funerals every day at Arlington National Cemetery. Some of the soldiers said the following words under their breath, so that only the other members of the detail could hear: "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, lets bury this stiff and get on the bus." Because it was said in a way that no one but the detail heard, IMO, it was not disrespectful, but represented the boredom and frustration of repetitive and uncomfortable work for young men in uniform.

I had this conversation with my daughter yesterday when she reminded me of a funeral I took her to a few years ago after a friend and co-workers son was killed in an automobile accident. She told me how upsetting it was and how she does not want to go to any more funerals. I reminded her that no one likes to go to funerals. We go to pay our respects to the dead and show compassion and fellowship for the family and friends who grieve. Learn to celebrate life by making your life worthwhile.

I would like people to stop posting all of their cute photographs and neato experiences online. I guess I will just learn to live with my disappointment.

<MADDOG>
02-18-2014, 21:52
Here's my viewpoint on the ARNG/Reserve (no, I'm not disparaging yanks):

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/pperron/P1020350_zpscf1ebb50.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/pperron/media/P1020350_zpscf1ebb50.jpg.html)

In my day most were college kids (not all, there were a small amount of prior service) with poor disciple and training. The pic is fitting also, as back in the 90's, I had the "pleasure" of OPFOR'ng against some of these yahoos at Drum. Synopsis: they literally got in a line and charged! [LOL]

These "weekend "warriors" are not cut of the same cloth as our active duty, and it shows even more so here.

Maybe times have changed, but I don't think so...

ben4372
02-18-2014, 22:37
Who knows what was on the minds of these young, underdeveloped brain youngsters. I promise you. Some have the folks that will hand down a overly heavy punishment have done much more disrespectful things. They likely don't have photos of it, but they did it too.

Aloha_Shooter
02-18-2014, 23:00
I hope it was gallows humor. Yes, it's disrespectful but I doubt it was intended to cause pain and anger like the hippies who spat on returning vets or Jane Fonda sitting on that AA gun. Give them some reflective duty or other NJP, learn from it and press on -- preserving COLA for federal civilian workers and entitlement EBT cards but reducing the COLA from veterans' (earned) retirement pay is just as disrespectful IMO but it doesn't have a fancy photo to wave around.

Mick-Boy
02-18-2014, 23:09
Wall-to-wall counseling clearly needs to make a comeback in the WI NG.

Ronin13
02-19-2014, 10:22
Wasn't the casket empty for the photo?
Doesn't matter- if these fuckwads were overseeing your father's funeral, and making comments and gestures like these moronic buffoons, would you expect them to treat your father's funeral with the honor and respect it deserved? If I saw these yahoos walking up on one of my loved one's or battle buddy's funeral I'd have a very big problem. They are nothing more than a disgrace to the uniform.

Irving
02-19-2014, 10:37
I wouldn't draw a connection between training and a real funeral, and then be upset about something that didn't happen.

Ronin13
02-19-2014, 10:50
I wouldn't draw a connection between training and a real funeral, and then be upset about something that didn't happen.
Train how you fight. And mix in what that chick said about how someone is getting a jacked up flag for having an outdoor funeral when it's chilly... It seems these kids aren't taking this assignment seriously. I don't care what they do out of uniform, but while in it, I expect them to be professional.

Scanker19
02-19-2014, 11:11
I wouldn't draw a connection between training and a real funeral, and then be upset about something that didn't happen.

Exactly. It wasn't even a casket that was to be used in an actual funeral. If people are getting mad about a training casket then we need to contract a hearse the draw them from TASC rather than, "who has a truck?"

Morbid release will happen at all levels of funeral service. If people got mad at every almost, near-fuck up, everything that can go wrong will, that happens with funerals then every one would be mad.

Because regardless of what happens at practice, everyone is as professional as they can be at the real service.

They should more mad at the way the VA handles the remains after the service.

Inconel710
02-19-2014, 11:14
I understand gallows humor, which is why the photo with the empty casket doesn't bother me that much. It's depressing duty and a little humor lightens the mood. But for goodness sake, why be stupid enough to put it out in public?

On the other hand, the twit complaining about a little cold weather for a funeral? She needs a harsh lesson that includes apologizing IN PERSON to the family she disrespected.

spqrzilla
02-19-2014, 16:49
I understand gallows humor, which is why the photo with the empty casket doesn't bother me that much. It's depressing duty and a little humor lightens the mood. But for goodness sake, why be stupid enough to put it out in public?



This.

Everyone is correct that the unit was showing disrespect and should be counseled. It should not have been made public. At the same time, I want to point out that we now have a society where small errors in judgment get magnified all out of proportion. I've grown tired of that.

Don't start ranting back at me about how inappropriate their conduct was, I agree. I just think it should not have become a big kerfluffle.

Ronin13
02-19-2014, 17:30
This.

Everyone is correct that the unit was showing disrespect and should be counseled. It should not have been made public. At the same time, I want to point out that we now have a society where small errors in judgment get magnified all out of proportion. I've grown tired of that.

Don't start ranting back at me about how inappropriate their conduct was, I agree. I just think it should not have become a big kerfluffle.
You do bring up an excellent point... Thanks to YouTube, Facebook, Twatter, etc. everything is magnified 100x. Did you hear about the guy who did that thing back in 1984? NO! Because social media was actually talking to people in real life. Times, they are a changing.

rbeau30
02-19-2014, 17:30
I don't care what they do out of uniform, but while in it, I expect them to be professional.

That I expect from my tax dollars.


You do bring up an excellent point... Thanks to YouTube, Facebook, Twatter, etc. everything is magnified 100x. Did you hear about the guy who did that thing back in 1984? NO! Because social media was actually talking to people in real life. Times, they are a changing.

I also think that in this "Information Age" It is a lot easier for a stupid choice to get handed to millions and millions of people. It is a LOT easier to do something and not put a second thought to publicizing it, and before you know it you cannot take it back or do any damage control.

We all do stupid things, but I think nowadays it is way too easy to show millions of people your stupid choice.

davsel
02-19-2014, 20:55
It appears there is a new generation that needs an ass whooping.

From: http://www.stripes.com/news/us/air-force-will-take-appropriate-action-over-viral-pow-mia-emblem-photo-1.267780

http://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.267775.1392743218!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_240/image.jpg

ETA: More info on this one here (http://thelibertyzone.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/why-should-anyone-forgive-cherish-byers/)

http://thelibertyzone.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/byers2.jpg?w=500&h=242

Squeeze
02-19-2014, 21:20
I don't care who they are or why they did it. That person put their life on the line and now their family gets to deal with stuff like this? Disrespect is disrespect, I say they all deserve a good ole Marine Corps boot to the face.

^^^THIS.

rbeau30
02-19-2014, 21:24
If she was SrA, 3 years in the service is a long enough time to learn. She was not a "Young Airman" at that point.

I bet she knows nothing of what Sgt Bowe Bergdahl has gone through for nearly 5 years. I vote the prisoner exchange should be him for her.

KestrelBike
02-19-2014, 22:54
That was stupid of them. I can see a civilian funeral home getting away with this (assuming empty casket) but seeing as it's the military, there simply isn't excusing it.

davsel
03-01-2014, 02:22
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1702075.1393418130%21/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/salute27n-1-web.jpg