View Full Version : Ukraine Footage,,, is real
This is not a movie...... This is REAL and this is really happening AS YOU READ THIS!!!!!!
The world is changing fast.... So much is going on. This may be Americas future soon.
http://www.dailydot.com/news/ukraine-revolution-euromaiden-conflict-video/ (http://www.dailydot.com/news/ukraine-revolution-euromaiden-conflict-video/)
ChunkyMonkey
02-25-2014, 19:53
This is not a movie...... This is REAL and this is really happening AS YOU READ THIS!!!!!!
The world is changing fast.... So much is going on. This may be Americas future soon.
http://www.dailydot.com/news/ukraine-revolution-euromaiden-conflict-video/ (http://www.dailydot.com/news/ukraine-revolution-euromaiden-conflict-video/)
After the bloodshed.. they are demanding 2nd amendment http://zbroya.info/en/blog/2650_ukrainian-gun-owners-associations-official-statement/
ChunkyMonkey
02-25-2014, 19:54
this particular event..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZPJ4nfSs80
lead_magnet
02-25-2014, 19:56
Cool video, and I get the idea but quoting a Rocky movie kinda cheapens it just a tad
After the bloodshed.. they are demanding 2nd amendment http://zbroya.info/en/blog/2650_ukrainian-gun-owners-associations-official-statement/
good luck...
ChunkyMonkey
02-25-2014, 20:19
good luck...
I think the lesson is for those who still have the rights rather than those who already lost it
After the bloodshed.. they are demanding 2nd amendment http://zbroya.info/en/blog/2650_ukrainian-gun-owners-associations-official-statement/
Does anyone know what rights they have now?
ChunkyMonkey
02-25-2014, 21:00
Does anyone know what rights they have now?
Pistol and revolver only, 21 year of age, background check, mental health check, secured storage requirement.
There are regulation and permit to buy even the air pistol/rifle. Hunting rifle/bolt action is allowed through many red tapes and may take months to obtain one. Caliber is very limited.
Their gun law is not much different from the SOVIET era. That being said, the few folks I talked to on different forums and locally here in Denver say that traditionally, many people have rifles and pistols from the WWII and some from cold war era.
After the bloodshed.. they are demanding 2nd amendment http://zbroya.info/en/blog/2650_ukrainian-gun-owners-associations-official-statement/
Hope it works out. Though I can see almost every other European nation forbidding them from having it.
wctriumph
02-26-2014, 15:58
WE MUST NOT BECOME EUROPE AT ALL COSTS.
TEA
III
RblDiver
02-27-2014, 17:08
Stakes upped. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20140227/DAC7P0LG0.html
(I swear I'm getting a sort of Duke of Austria feeling to all this, relatively local conflict spiraling into a much larger one)
ChunkyMonkey
02-27-2014, 17:10
Stakes upped. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20140227/DAC7P0LG0.html
(I swear I'm getting a sort of Duke of Austria feeling to all this, relatively local conflict spiraling into a much larger one)
Not with the pussies in our top office. It will be another georgia.. or ahem Iraq..where we just hand them over to the Iranians
RblDiver
03-01-2014, 15:28
Russia's dropped all pretense and has authorized troops in Ukraine. Wonder which side'll declare war first. http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/01/breaking-putin-asks-russian-parliament-for-approval-to-use-military-force-in-ukraine/
And of course O'll never honor the Budapest Memorandum. Wonder if the UK will.
ChunkyMonkey
03-01-2014, 15:44
Russia's dropped all pretense and has authorized troops in Ukraine. Wonder which side'll declare war first. http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/01/breaking-putin-asks-russian-parliament-for-approval-to-use-military-force-in-ukraine/
And of course O'll never honor the Budapest Memorandum. Wonder if the UK will.
Dont ya worry. Obama the great diplomat will have Putin sign a binding agreement to sign over Crimea and appeasing all parties in the name of peace. Then he'll declare THE PEACE IN OUR TIME!
'O the Inept' doesn't intimidate anyone.
streetglideok
03-01-2014, 17:37
Dont ya worry. Obama the great diplomat will have Putin sign a binding agreement to sign over Crimea and appeasing all parties in the name of peace. Then he'll declare THE PEACE IN OUR TIME!This mess sounds hauntingly familiar to Hitler, 1930's doesn't it? Obama will talk a big game, and not follow thru. Meanwhile Putin will continue to size up his opponents and take more land. None of our allies will take a stand, as they know Obama won't back them. Eventually, the guns will be pointed at us. Anyone notice the part about the Russian Parliament recommending a recall of the Russian ambassador to the US?
This is the reason why I am pro 2nd Amendment. The faults of human nature do not change and the US is not immune to them either.
<MADDOG>
03-01-2014, 20:57
Umm...why do we give a fuck?
Tor; we are no longer in the 60's,70's, 80's...
Video of the first waves going in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TVyPiHVZ1A
Umm...why do we give a fuck?
-slow day in the news is the best I can figure.
Obama is gutting our military to pre WW2 levels
Actually, it's only gone as far as SecDef suggesting it. And Congress would never approve it, since they would get destroyed over it back home for the unemployment of members as well as lost money from closed weapons contracts.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/military-spending-cuts/pentagon-set-slash-military-pre-world-war-ii-levels-n37086
Wow Tor, such strong emotions/foaming at the mouth over Russia's involvement in Ukraine. What exactly is your interest in that part of the world anyway?
I bet CNN isnt telling you that the so called super-democratic 'good guys' that took over in Kiev are a bunch of radical neo-Fascists whose first order of business was not to work to repair Ukraine's economy but instead to restrict the usage of the Russian language nationwide. Thats an interesting set of priorities for a fledgling government.
ChunkyMonkey
03-01-2014, 22:01
Collection of photos and videos from the riot to the current Crimea
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236005-Situation-in-the-Ukraine-Crimea-*Photos-Videos*-ONLY/
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Because no other government has ever overreacted to a perceived threat. Ukraine's former president is a big time Russian sympathizer, and is in fact hiding out in Russia while screaming that Parliament's firing him was illegal.
Im also curious how exactly Russian involvement in Crimea is seen as an 'invasion' when those forces have a legal right to be stationed there and have been for the last 250 some odd years anyway?
well if crowds of thousands were screaming that they'd kill you and your family would you not leave either or would you allow yourself to to be killed out of principle? Yanukovych may be a shithead moron that stole alot of money but hey the people deserve the leaders they elect. Kravchuk was bad, Kuchma was bad, pro-west Yuschenko was bad, Yanukovych got thrown out, im betting these trends wont end anytime soon.
Im also curious how exactly Russian involvement in Crimea is seen as an 'invasion' when those forces have a legal right to be stationed there and have been for the last 250 some odd years anyway?
Russia gave Crimea to Ukraine decades ago. Ukraine has allowed them a port there. I'd say that armed units storming around seizing government buildings, transport hubs and cutting communication grids doesn't fall under the purview of that agreement.
Russia gave Crimea to Ukraine decades ago. Ukraine has allowed them a port there. I'd say that armed units storming around seizing government buildings, transport hubs and cutting communication grids doesn't fall under the purview of that agreement.
Yeah and the lease agreement for Sevastopol was extended to 2042 by the now ousted Yanukovych govt. It stands to reason the radical ultra-nationalists now in charge in Kiev would tear up that agreement. Hmm, I wonder what Putin's reaction to this would be????
Im also curious how exactly Russian involvement in Crimea is seen as an 'invasion' when those forces have a legal right to be stationed there and have been for the last 250 some odd years anyway?
Incorrect. "Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire during the reign of Catherine The Great in 1783 and remained part of Russia until 1954 when it was transferred to Ukraine under the then Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev." Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/6080890.stm)
Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic of Ukraine, governed by Ukrainian law. If you don't think a growing conflict in the region isn't a matter of concern, you obviously don't realize that US diplomats have supported and defended Ukrainian sovereignty historically since Ukraine became an independent nation in 1991. Not to mention that Russia's invasion of the region is in direct violation of international law and UN Charter. This could spiral into an ever expanding conflict.
Yeah and the lease agreement for Sevastopol was extended to 2042 by the now ousted Yanukovych govt. It stands to reason the radical ultra-nationalists now in charge in Kiev would tear up that agreement. Hmm, I wonder what Putin's reaction to this would be????
Russia and Ukraine decades ago were all republics of what was then the Soviet Union. Ukraine as a sovereign nation has never existed before 1991 fyi
Incorrect. "Crimea was annexed by the Russian Empire during the reign of Catherine The Great in 1783 and remained part of Russia until 1954 when it was transferred to Ukraine under the then Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev." Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/6080890.stm)
Crimea is an autonomous parliamentary republic of Ukraine, governed by Ukrainian law. If you don't think a growing conflict in the region isn't a matter of concern, you obviously don't realize that US diplomats have supported and defended Ukrainian sovereignty historically since Ukraine became an independent nation in 1991. Not to mention that Russia's invasion of the region is in direct violation of international law and UN Charter. This could spiral into an ever expanding conflict.
I wouldnt worry about conflict gents. No one's going to war over Ukraine. As far as violating intl law, thats another interesting statement coming from the US administration.
Yeah, "fucking russians", and 'What a fucking land of losers". Way to win hearts and minds eh?
Not to mention that Russia's invasion of the region is in direct violation of international law
[ROFL2] -when has that ever stopped Russia, the USA, or China? When you have a big enough stick, you can, and will do anything you jolly well please.
Just saw this on an online news source:
"U.S. condemns Russia's invasion and occupation"
back up a dozen years:
"Russia condemns U.S. invasion and occupation"
Putin cares about U.S. condemnation and international law regarding Ukraine about as much as the U.S. cared about Russian condemnation and international law as it pertained to Iraq. -not one bit.
streetglideok
03-01-2014, 22:42
Once Putin secures most of Ukraine, who will control nearly all the gas pipelines to Europe? Once Putin starts playing with supplies, all the sudden Ukraine will carry more urgency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes
Normally I try to avoid such discussions. We live in a complex, ever changing world.. try not to see things in black and white gents
Once Putin secures most of Ukraine, who will control nearly all the gas pipelines to Europe? Once Putin starts playing with supplies, all the sudden Ukraine will carry more urgency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes
Yeah and what does any of this have to do with the US ??? Why all the interest in Ukraine? Most people cant even find it on a map but now everyone's got an opinion??
Come on SRG- Any evidence to the contrary? When's the last time Russia has helped bail out a country? How about Finland 1939? Poland 1941? Korea 1950? Afghanistan? Georgia? Lotta humanitarian aid for the world ? They are such a warm and fuzzy nation. Always have been...
Tor, you really do see things in b & w dont you? Hmm, pretty sure all major powers have done bad and regrettable things in the past.. lets start digging all that up now
btw, im one of those fucking looser ruskies you hate so much but I will say this: invading Finland was a bigtime no-no for the USSR. Finland showed they had the balls to fight for their country against foreign aggression just as my ancestors fought against Nazi aggression and occupation and for that they get major respect.
Wasnt denying anything either.. simply dont understand your anti-russian powertrip as if russia was the worlds biggest badguy ever
Cannot deny that most Americans can't find the Crimean on a map, know its history, can spell it, or will turn off the TV long enough to care what is happening in the Black Sea.
There's nothing happening anyway but if you watch the news you'd think there's a war on. Aggression!! Invasion!! FEAR FEAR FEAR OMG. No one has even fired a shot.
Cannot deny that most Americans can't find the Crimean on a map, know its history, can spell it, or will turn off the TV long enough to care what is happening in the Black Sea.
My post - grad work was military history. I'm pretty fanatical anti-Soviet... sorry. Mannerheim has always been a hero of mine...along with Poland 's greats- Poniatowski and Pilsuddki. Again, sorry but Russia's history has been brutal on most folks-
You'd think most historians would try to take a more objective and even-tempered approach. Russia has been invaded many times by hostile foreign powers as well. As far as Poland, im pretty sure there was a time a few hundred years ago when they were an 'invader' in russia as well...
After all, its not like any news organization to let an alleged 'crisis' go to waste.. bad news makes for good ratings
streetglideok
03-01-2014, 23:29
Yeah and what does any of this have to do with the US ??? Why all the interest in Ukraine? Most people cant even find it on a map but now everyone's got an opinion??
Dunno, could be that little inconvenient thing called NATO and alliances with Europe. If Russia decides to cut off gas supplies to Europe, that affects our allies. Russia has seen how weak we are, and how useless the UN is. They know we won't or can't do anything. We didn't do anything about Georgia, and we likely will just talk a lot and not do anything about this now. Will Putin be content with Ukraine? They thought pacifying Hitler would bring peace to our time. Didn't work out so well then, and we ended up in a war in Europe over it eventually. It may not be apparent now, but 5 years from now you may have a different outlook on how things unfold this year. What happens if our NATO allies lose confidence and decide we will not back them if it comes down to it? Wolverines anyone? Look at the big picture on this. Lot of possibilities of where this all could go.
Dunno, could be that little inconvenient thing called NATO and alliances with Europe. If Russia decides to cut off gas supplies to Europe, that affects our allies. Russia has seen how weak we are, and how useless the UN is. They know we won't or can't do anything. We didn't do anything about Georgia, and we likely will just talk a lot and not do anything about this now. Will Putin be content with Ukraine? They thought pacifying Hitler would bring peace to our time. Didn't work out so well then, and we ended up in a war in Europe over it eventually. It may not be apparent now, but 5 years from now you may have a different outlook on how things unfold this year. What happens if our NATO allies lose confidence and decide we will not back them if it comes down to it? Wolverines anyone? Look at the big picture on this. Lot of possibilities of where this all could go.
Russia cutting off gas supplies to europe? Now why on earth would russia cut off it's own sources of gas revenues?????
im betting that like the Ossetia fiasco this will all blow over in a few months
alliances are a tricky thing.. alliances in WW1 led to the death of millions of people.. and for what? All so that a line on a map could be redrawn differently?
NATO feels threatened by Russia? Pretty sure it was NATO itself that expanded right up to Russia's borders and the members of whom are already some former Soviet republics.
Not just lines on a map: downfall of the empires (Czar Nicky, Kaiser Willie, Ottoman Turks, Austria/Hungary), creation of new countries (Poland, Yugoslavia, etc), and birth of America as a superpower. Don't forget, WW1 was just the opening act. Since the West couldn't finish the war-a ridiculous armastice- and Russia quit to fight her own civil war, the conflict just took a 20 yr pause until it started all over again.
Yeah I know. World War part 1 and part 2. 20 year pause to raise a new generation of cannon fodder for part 2
HoneyBadger
03-02-2014, 08:38
No one has even fired a shot.
You mean, except for the hundreds of people dead in the streets of Kiev?
you keep asking "why should anybody care" but you obviously care because you keep ranting about it.
Russia cutting off gas supplies to europe? Now why on earth would russia cut off it's own sources of gas revenues?????
im betting that like the Ossetia fiasco this will all blow over in a few months.
NATO feels threatened by Russia? Pretty sure it was NATO itself that expanded right up to Russia's borders and the members of whom are already some former Soviet republics.
Do you even understand international politics and economics? [facepalm] Furthermore, Russia has a well-known history of cutting off gas to its customers just to flex some muscle, as ChunkyMonky posted earlier in this thread.
Hundreds dead? really? Last I checked it was less than 100 people and that tally includes the 'peaceful democratic' protesters and the riot police.
I care because thats where I was born and where my extended family lives.. the question was why do Americans care?? Again, what is the US govts interest in Russia's backyard?
Cut off gas to flex muscle? You mean to people who want to play 'i wanna have my cake and eat it too'? The ones that want billion $$ bailouts, cheap gas and at the same time want The Black Sea fleet gone, restrictions on the Russian language (spoken by 70% of the populace btw), venerate Nazi collaborators from ww2, dont pay their debts, threaten to acquire nuclear weapons in 3-6 months? Those people?
I care because thats where I was born and where my extended family lives.. the question was why do Americans care?? Again, what is the US govts interest in Russia's backyard?
Just because you were born there, does not give you exclusivity on interest/comments to the events going on there.
"Americans" does not equal "US govts". Some of us that are familiar with world history understand how these types of events can turn into something more than a local issue. Previous attempts at isolationism and ignoring the situation went very badly, even on a global scale.
You are not the be all/end all for events going on in the area. Perhaps you could take this opportunity to share what you know instead of acting like you're the only one suited to speak about the subject and that we should mind our own business?
Ukraine Mobilizes Reserve Troops, Threatening War (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?_r=0)
SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine — Russia’s move to seize control of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula on Saturday led Ukraine to call up its military reserves on Sunday and warn Moscow against further incursions as Western powers scrambled to find a response to the crisis.
A day after the Russian Parliament granted President Vladimir V. Putin broad authority to use military force in response to the political upheaval in Ukraine that dislodged a Kremlin ally and installed a new, staunchly pro-Western government, the Ukrainian government in Kiev threatened war if Russia sent troops further into Ukraine.
Russian troops stripped of identifying insignia but using military vehicles bearing the license plates of Russia’s Black Sea force swarmed the major thoroughfares of Crimea on Saturday, encircled government buildings, closed the main airport and seized communication hubs, solidifying what began on Friday as a covert effort to control the largely pro-Russian region.
41575
It seems really odd to me that the Russian troops don't have identifying markings.
Bitter Clinger
03-02-2014, 10:12
Just because you were born there, does not give you exclusivity on interest/comments to the events going on there.
"Americans" does not equal "US govts". Some of us that are familiar with world history understand how these types of events can turn into something more than a local issue. Previous attempts at isolationism and ignoring the situation went very badly, even on a global scale.
You are not the be all/end all for events going on in the area. Perhaps you could take this opportunity to share what you know instead of acting like you're the only one suited to speak about the subject and that we should mind our own business?
This.
You do realize that this situation could draw the US into open war with the ruskies right?
Just because you were born there, does not give you exclusivity on interest/comments to the events going on there.
"Americans" does not equal "US govts". Some of us that are familiar with world history understand how these types of events can turn into something more than a local issue. Previous attempts at isolationism and ignoring the situation went very badly, even on a global scale.
You are not the be all/end all for events going on in the area. Perhaps you could take this opportunity to share what you know instead of acting like you're the only one suited to speak about the subject and that we should mind our own business?
Well said! SRG- did it ever occur to you that some of us are interested because this is a plight we can empathize with? These people in Ukraine began the protests because their president was viewed as a puppet of Putin's (does "You'll have more flexibility after I win re-election" ring a bell? Not saying Obama is a puppet, but he's awfully buddy buddy). Ukraine wants the same freedom we take for granted here, because frankly, most Americans don't know what freedom really is because they've never been without it or been exposed to those who have been on the opposite end of the spectrum. Some of us care because we're good people that actually care about the ills of others throughout the world. So instead of chastising everyone for having an opinion on something going on outside of our own country, maybe help give some insight due to your ties there.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 10:27
Latest update from multiple European News
Poland govt is meeting with Ukraine govt
Ukraine Army Is reportedly too ill equipped to take Crimea back with force
Ukrainians are seen fleeing certain area and crossing into Poland.
Western European countries brace for energy fuel interruption.
Russian soldiers left the Ukrainian Navy area. The navy pledge loyalty to Kiev despite its flag ship's defection to the Russian.
Russian soldiers started to dig defensive position in the Crimea crossing area.
Certain eastern cities reporting pro Russian demonstration, some reporting riot between pro and cons.
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streetglideok
03-02-2014, 10:38
Latest update from multiple European News
Poland govt is meeting with Ukraine govt
Ukraine Army Is reported ill equipped to take Crimea back with force
Ukrainians are seen fleeing certain area and crossing into Poland.
Western European countries brace for energy fuel interruption.
Russian soldiers left the Ukrainian Navy area. The navy pledge loyalty to Kiev despite its flag ship's defection to the Russian.
Russian soldiers started to dig defensive position in the Crimea crossing area.
Certain eastern cities reporting pro Russian demonstration, some reporting riot between pro and cons.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hmm, sounds like the same things some of us have been saying. I swear we have a few pro-obamanites on this site that will back him no matter how wrong he is.
Apart from angry talk and posturing there is literally NOTHING going on. Speculative scenarios are running amok though..
Apart from angry talk and posturing there is literally NOTHING going on. Speculative scenarios are running amok though..
Of course not...
Ukraine’s Interim Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Sunday that actions taken by Russia’s military forces in Crimea are “a declaration of war.”
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/02/interim-ukrainian-prime-minister-actions-by-russian-military-is-declaration-of-war/
ANADRILL
03-02-2014, 10:54
Well said! SRG- did it ever occur to you that some of us are interested because this is a plight we can empathize with? These people in Ukraine began the protests because their president was viewed as a puppet of Putin's (does "You'll have more flexibility after I win re-election" ring a bell? Not saying Obama is a puppet, but he's awfully buddy buddy). Ukraine wants the same freedom we take for granted here, because frankly, most Americans don't know what freedom really is because they've never been without it or been exposed to those who have been on the opposite end of the spectrum. Some of us care because we're good people that actually care about the ills of others throughout the world. So instead of chastising everyone for having an opinion on something going on outside of our own country, maybe help give some insight due to your ties there.
Well put!
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 10:55
So quick we forget the lessons of the 1930s. By this precedent, you would agree that it would be ok for Mexican armed forces to operate in Texas because a Mexican got his panties ruffled over May 5th celebrations. Unless of course you believe in a double standard.
Of course not...
[/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/02/interim-ukrainian-prime-minister-actions-by-russian-military-is-declaration-of-war/
And so? An UNELECTED/Self appointed offical says its a declaration of war? Afaik, there hasnt been a declaration of ANYTHING much at all thus far..
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 11:03
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101458530
Asian market is going to take as much as 2% hit and this traditionally translate to strong US dollars.
Silver and gold may be seeming down trend - except if you were in Ukraine
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I seem to recall the 2008 Russia/Georgia conflict and all the same empty threats and slogans, scenarios, assessments were being thrown around.. anyone hear anything outta there now?? Crickets chirping...
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2014, 11:07
This.
You do realize that this situation could draw the US into open war with the ruskies right?
warn Moscow against further incursions as Western powers scrambled to find a response to the crisis.
The US is inneffective against any country with the current administration. Same for the EU. Which btw would rather keep the status quo they have. Sure the EU would like the Ukraine to join, where else is outside money going to come from.
The US said it strongly opposes any russian interference in Ukraine. . Putin knows Obama will do little if anything to stop them.
An off radar concern if that happens, is China / Taiwan. No involvement in the Ukraine, how would we deal with China. Stop their imports??
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 11:15
warn Moscow against further incursions as Western powers scrambled to find a response to the crisis.
The US is inneffective against any country with the current administration. Same for the EU. Which btw would rather keep the status quo they have. Sure the EU would like the Ukraine to join, where else is outside money going to come from.
The US said it strongly opposes any russian interference in Ukraine. . Putin knows Obama will do little if anything to stop them.
An off radar concern if that happens, is China / Taiwan. No involvement in the Ukraine, how would we deal with China. Stop their imports??
Crush Chinese GDP by Banning walmart!!!! LOL
I don't think the US should go beyond diplomatic means over Ukraine. But again the days of diplomatic pressure or military bluffs by the current administration were long gone.
Hell, just couple weeks ago, The US couldn't even stop the IRAQI from buying weapons from the IRANIANs violating the sanction and embargo.
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HoneyBadger
03-02-2014, 11:19
Apart from angry talk and posturing there is literally NOTHING going on. Speculative scenarios are running amok though..
You make me LOL.
You make me LOL.
I was waiting for that. I've been chuckling all the way down this page.
An off radar concern if that happens, is China / Taiwan.
Not 'if', -when. Might not occur in my lifetime but it'll happen eventually.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 11:35
Not 'if', -when. Might not occur in my lifetime but it'll happen eventually.
Certainly won't happen while the ccp is enjoying the economy growth.
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Got off the skype with people I know that live near Simferopol.. they say there's nothing going on.. quiet and business as usual
Aloha_Shooter
03-02-2014, 11:52
Much as I detest Putin and the resurrection of what was once the KGB, we should remember that Crimea was historically Russian territory and there are a lot of ethnic Russians living there now. It would be like Mexico moving troops into Southern California if it got unstable and violent there. Oh wait ...
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 11:52
Got off the skype with people I know that live near Simferopol.. they say there's nothing going on.. quiet and business as usual
Of course.. they are behind the line. [dig]
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1/s403x403/1098122_646167875418439_714734194_n.png
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 11:55
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1/s403x403/1098122_646167875418439_714734194_n.png
ahhaha.. exactly
I really found watching sports boring as a kid... instead I followed things like this. This stuff matters more. Thanks for the educated and mostly rational discussions by all.
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 12:14
Got off the skype with people I know that live near Simferopol.. they say there's nothing going on.. quiet and business as usual
A tornado hits Oklahoma City one day. I call my friends in Tulsa, asking what is going on there. They say nothing at all, business as usual. Does this mean a tornado never hit OKC? Could it be that your contacts are well west of the action? Sorry, fail
Crimea Standoff: Russian Gunmen Surround Ukraine Military Base (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/crimea-standoff-russian-gunmen-surround-ukraine-military-base-n42406)
SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine - Russian troops surrounded a military base in Ukraine's Crimea region Sunday in a tense standoff as the security crisis in the region deepened.
Armed men arrived at the base in Perevalne and demanded the Ukrainian soldiers inside lay down their weapons.
The Ukrainian forces remained defiant, but were heavily outnumbered.
No shots were fired in what appeared to be the first direct confrontation between Russian and Ukrainian military forces.
Russian troops haven't fired a shot. They don't need to. With rocket-propelled grenades at the ready, they have taken over Crimea without resistance and with the backing of most of this region's people.
In the regional capital, Simferopol, a pro-Russian self-defense force protected a statue of Lenin.
The base standoff was another sign that Russia was tightening its grip on Crimea – and its influence in other parts of pro-Russian eastern Ukraine.
In Ukraine’s second city, Kharkiv, there were running battles after local militias thwarted pro-Western demonstrators who tried to attack another Lenin statue.
The scenes underscored the problem facing Ukraine's interim leaders, who are powerless to stop the loss of Crimea.
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 12:23
Who here studied history? Anyone remember much about WWI, and the Russian revolution, and what led to it? What has Russia used as an excuse to go into these countries? Where does this all tie together? How much gas/il reserves does Europe keep on had if t pipelines were turned off from Russia?
Russia will let the dust settle on this, as some people got amped up a little. Next winter, they turn off the supplies and it soon causes panic in Europe. The socialist gov'ts who furnish everything for their people have unrest on their hands. Enter the new global police force, Russia. They know a few things about us. One, we have a weak president, and Congress. Two, we are financially strapped, and have out of control spending. Three, there is quiet unrest within our borders over social issues.
Russia knows if we go to war, we can not sustain a conflict due to debt. If we go to war, we could see a similar result as WWI in Russia. If we do nothing, they can walk over Europe in the name of reclaiming lost homelands.
hahaha a global Russian police force!!! OMG RED DAWN!!!
hahaha Russia attacking europe to reclaim lost homelands? What LOST homelands are those??
The unelected nationalist govt in Kiev has only itself to blame for this. So much tough talk with very little to back it up with.
A tornado hits Oklahoma City one day. I call my friends in Tulsa, asking what is going on there. They say nothing at all, business as usual. Does this mean a tornado never hit OKC? Could it be that your contacts are well west of the action? Sorry, fail
West of the action? Like what? In romania? No, they are just south of Simferopol. Action? What action?
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 12:59
Who here studied history? Anyone remember much about WWI, and the Russian revolution, and what led to it? What has Russia used as an excuse to go into these countries? Where does this all tie together? How much gas/il reserves does Europe keep on had if t pipelines were turned off from Russia?
Russia will let the dust settle on this, as some people got amped up a little. Next winter, they turn off the supplies and it soon causes panic in Europe. The socialist gov'ts who furnish everything for their people have unrest on their hands. Enter the new global police force, Russia. They know a few things about us. One, we have a weak president, and Congress. Two, we are financially strapped, and have out of control spending. Three, there is quiet unrest within our borders over social issues.
Russia knows if we go to war, we can not sustain a conflict due to debt. If we go to war, we could see a similar result as WWI in Russia. If we do nothing, they can walk over Europe in the name of reclaiming lost homelands.
Welcome to Rome...
Oh, and this:
"You just do not, in the 21st century, behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry said on American broadcaster CBS on Sunday
You just do not, in the 21st century, behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry said on American broadcaster CBS on Sunday
That's pretty rich in light of Iraq.
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 14:40
West of the action? Like what? In romania? No, they are just south of Simferopol. Action? What action?
Or your friends are accomplices of the red army invasion, and are trying to make things sound a lot less than they really are.
Or your friends are accomplices of the red army invasion, and are trying to make things sound a lot less than they really are.
Red Army invasion? [panic]
Russia has controlled the Crimea for over 100 years. When the Ukraine got its independence, Russia "Leased the area" for military bases. The Ukraine leaders are now threatening those people who are already there and have always been. If the Ukraine had half a brain, it would just give that land up. But fools never think far enough ahead. Russia will never give up that strategic land position EVER and they have the might to level the Ukraine to a smoldering heap to keep it. I really don't root for either side. Because one side is full of fascist Nazis with modern swastikas and what not and the other side is the Russians which are hardly any better.
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 14:50
hahaha a global Russian police force!!! OMG RED DAWN!!!
hahaha Russia attacking europe to reclaim lost homelands? What LOST homelands are those??
The unelected nationalist govt in Kiev has only itself to blame for this. So much tough talk with very little to back it up with.
Your party laughed at Palin for her stating the obvious. Perhaps you need to open your eyes to the changing environment. You act as though you never studied history or geography. I suggest you study before you type. Poland, the Baltic states, Finland, all were part of Russia at one point. Now you can deny these things, but there is plenty of proof to say otherwise. Perhaps you would be better served by leaving this western country and returning to help support the Russians rescuing their former territory from western influences?
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 14:57
Red Army invasion? [panic]
Russia has controlled the Crimea for over 100 years. When the Ukraine got its independence, Russia "Leased the area" for military bases. The Ukraine leaders are now threatening those people who are already there and have always been. If the Ukraine had half a brain, it would just give that land up. But fools never think far enough ahead. Russia will never give up that strategic land position EVER and they have the might to level the Ukraine to a smoldering heap to keep it. I really don't root for either side. Because one side is full of fascist Nazis with modern swastikas and what not and the other side is the Russians which are hardly any better.
Aww, so because Russia leased lands in the Crimea for their naval bases, they have a right to stomp all over Ukraine territory when they don't agree with them? It was civil unrest until the Russians stepped in with the red army. Now it's escalating quickly. If it was an issue about Russian leases, then their military would remain confined to their leased territory, would it not? Perhaps if you were subjected to the mistreatments of the Russians/soviets in the past, you would not be so partial to them, but then socialists tend to stick up for each other, like democrats to the Kenyan.
How did the Russian Red Army step into the Crimea when they are ALREADY THERE AND HAVE BEEN. You are really just a hyperbolic jerk who is acting unAmerican. What right do you have to tell anyone to leave America?
I am a socialist for pointing out the obvious and support neither side? Give it a rest with the garbage.
If you're not with us, you're against us!!
You suggest I study history or geography?? I've lived in what was before 1991 known as the Soviet Union.. in modern day Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania..
You only read about it on the internet.
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 15:11
That's pretty rich in light of Iraq.
I was thinking more of Panama, 1989. Minus the drugs, there are many similarities.
Out of curiosity, how many members here visit non-domestic news agencies?
Here are some of the people on the Ukraine side. Modern fascist and nazis. http://libcom.org/news/neo-nazis-far-right-protesters-ukraine-23012014
Please tell me why I need to support either side in this shiznit-show?
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 15:14
How did the Russian Red Army step into the Crimea when they are ALREADY THERE AND HAVE BEEN. You are really just a hyperbolic jerk who is acting unAmerican. What right do you have to tell anyone to leave America?
I am a socialist for pointing out the obvious and support neither side? Give it a rest with the garbage.
I didn't tell him to leave, or you for that matter. I made a suggestion that he may be better served in doing so. No sense in arguing about your political views nynco, that ship sailed out a long time ago. Has the red army or has it not expanded its operations beyond its bases? Did Putin, or did he not ask(well tell parliament) that he wanted to use the military in Ukraine? He didn't specify Crimea did he?
You're also right that Poland, the Baltics and Finland were at one point or another part of Russia/USSR. However, I fail to see how that historical pretext is supposed to mean that Russia will risk all out war with these now NATO member states FOR NO REAL REASON??
Its a crap show either way. We have nazis vs commies. I expect Russia to defend its interest in the Crimea region. Its common sense. If the Ukrainians had half a brain, they would let the Russians keep it. Ever play the game Risk? The Ukraine is the worst strategic position in the game. They are surrounded on 3 out of 4 sides by Russians or Russian states. Plus they have next to no military might.
http://youtu.be/fzLtF_PxbYw
btw, the fact you use the obsolete term 'Red Army' (a term not used since 1945) demonstrates that you're stuck in some sort of Cold War era timeloop.
Here's some help for you to understand what is what:
before 1918 - Imperial Russian Army
1918 - 1945 - Red Army
1945 - 1991 - Soviet Army
1991 - present - Russian Army
streetglideok
03-02-2014, 15:32
btw, the fact you use the obsolete term 'Red Army' (a term not used since 1945) demonstrates that you're stuck in some sort of Cold War era timeloop.
It is what it is, you don't have to like it to know that the soviet/Russian army has been called the red army here for a very long time. Russia isn't too worried about a NATO war. Obama is weak, and easily played. We are flat broke from Obama's policies. We won't go to war with them, we might hurt their feelings, or we might cause global warming. Putin knows this, and has no real concern. If you fail to grasp how history repeats itself often, that is fine. You'll just have to keep watching over the next few years and remember, I told you so.
Nynco, you keep calling these people Nazis. Because they are socialists too? Because they don't like a group of people planted there years ago to maintain a foothold? I guess we could call the current democrats/progressives Nazis as well. They are intolerant of other views that don't go with anti-gun, pro- handouts, pro illegal immigration. Wait until this drama happens here along the southern US borders. Under current policies, it will in a generation.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/118479-watch-cnn-reporter-confronts-mysterious-masked-gunmen-ukraine/
Oh yeah and so much drama & suspense about the masked 'gunmen' aka Russian Naval Infantry from the Black Sea Fleet
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 15:38
An off radar concern if that happens, is China / Taiwan. No involvement in the Ukraine, how would we deal with China. Stop their imports??
I think China is sitting back, having a cold one, and taking notes; planning for the day the Renminbi is the world's reserve currency [Beer].
Hence my IDGF comment. This "conflict" will pass just like ones before it; and there are far bigger issues staring us in the face IMO.
Streetglock click this link and read. Look at the symbols. http://libcom.org/news/neo-nazis-far-right-protesters-ukraine-23012014
Then look through this monster thread now that you know some of the symbols of the fascists and see often they come up = A LOT.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236005-Situation-in-the-Ukraine-Crimea-*Photos-Videos*-ONLY
Yeah yeah yeah it was Obama that increased the debt... never mind the last 30 years. Never mind that the people you support went to war and charged it to the national debt.
We need to stop this stupid GOP vs Dem crap. Both sides are a pile of crap. Stuff is going bad in America and there is no party that will fix it in our current two party dictatorship.
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 15:45
[LOL]
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/pperron/BemoZYqCIAAiaem1_zps7e80c28d.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/pperron/media/BemoZYqCIAAiaem1_zps7e80c28d.jpg.html)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/pperron/Bebg_7fCMAAR-0i_zps623d7513.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/pperron/media/Bebg_7fCMAAR-0i_zps623d7513.jpg.html)
During ww2 the UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) collaborated with the Nazi's.. wore their unforms and used their weapons. Today, the descendants of the UPA are numerous amongst those that ousted the Yanukovych govt and are now pleading to everyone that will listen that Putin not crush them... oooh boo hoo... please save us, help us from the evil Russian barbarians!!!
KestrelBike
03-02-2014, 15:58
btw, the fact you use the obsolete term 'Red Army' (a term not used since 1945) demonstrates that you're stuck in some sort of Cold War era timeloop.
Here's some help for you to understand what is what:
before 1918 - Imperial Russian Army
1918 - 1945 - Red Army
1945 - 1991 - Soviet Army
1991 - present - Russian Army
Yeah, that's why the Russians (let me be more specific and say Putin himself) brought back the old Soviet national anthem but with new words (guess they couldn't manage to sing about Lenin and Stalin anymore) AND authorized the army units to again use the soviet red banner and the 5 point red star as insignia.
That's great you were born in Russia, but why are you here in the US? I've studied in Russia, and don't get me wrong: many of the people I met were fantastic, warm people amongst themselves. The rest of it, the government, the infrastructure, the education system, THE POLICE, the banks, were a complete fucking farce of liars criminals thugs and assholes.
It's tough for about 97% of Americans to realize how lucky they are to be American and live in the United States because they rarely see or experience any other place. I thank god every day that we are not Russia or any other country, even when we have assholes like obummer, clintons, bidens, the CT legislators, etc.
It's one thing to bring up Iraq and try to make the US the scapegoat for all it's woes, but don't forget that all of the instability is because of dumbfck jihadists and Islamic criminals who refuse to engage outside of violence. And when you bring up Afghanistan, how quick you are to forget the soviet incursion of Afghanistan and the "pacification" methods employed there.
Ok this is just funny... Roman reinactors vs Russia allied Ukrainians.
41583
Ukraine Navy Chief Surrenders to Russians, Charged With Treason (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-navy-chief-surrenders-russians-charged-treason-n42526)
Ukraine launched a treason case on Sunday against the head of the navy, who surrendered his headquarters on Sunday in the Crimean port of Sevastopol — on only his second day on the job.
Denis Berezovsky was earlier shown on Russian television (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt9efnLV4UY&feature=youtu.be%20) swearing allegiance to the pro-Russian regional leaders of Crimea. Russian forces have seized the Black Sea peninsula and told Ukrainian forces there to give up their weapons.
"During the blockade by Russian forces of the central headquarters of the navy, he declined to offer resistance and laid down his weapons," said Viktoria Syumar, deputy secretary of Ukraine's Security Council.
"The prosecutor's office has opened a criminal case against Denis Berezovsky under statute 111: state treason," she said. Another admiral, Serhiy Hayduk, was placed in charge of the navy.
...but everyone can just relax. John Kerry is on his way to Kiev.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 16:20
That's pretty rich in light of Iraq.
He's acting the exact difinition of being a politician.
I think China is sitting back, having a cold one, and taking notes; planning for the day the Renminbi is the world's reserve currency [Beer].
Out of topic.. but I won't say never, very unlikely. Remember when this one used to be #2 and was otw to #1 for 50 years?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PpvtdcbP5rA/TYfDbO555MI/AAAAAAAADhs/KKUolOfUeoo/s400/RUSSIAN%2BPAPER%2BMONEY%2B100%2BROUBLES%2B1947.jpg
Here is why i dont think CNY will take over as world currency reserve. Most of their own reserves in US Dollars.. not in CNY. They are still buying US bonds despite their own local bond trouble. They need to support export and aside from few bilateral agreements, most International trade is still based on USD.
When you travel to China.. they are crazy for USD.
Anyone else pay attention to the red army's equipment and discipline? It's day and night vs 8/8/8 invasion of Georgia. King Putin is doing much better job than King Obama diplomatically, economically, and militarily! [beatdeadhorse]
In away I almost missed the good ol cold war status quo..where local conflicts almost didn't exists.
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 16:52
Here is why i dont think CNY will take over as world currency reserve. Most of their own reserves in US Dollars.. not in CNY. They are still buying US bonds despite their own local bond trouble. They need to support export and aside from few bilateral agreements, most International trade is still based on USD.
When you travel to China.. they are crazy for USD.
In away I almost missed the good ol cold war status quo..where local conflicts almost didn't exists.
Chunky, we could start a whole new thread on this one; you're right! I will comment though; the Chinese gov't typically buys short term bonds from my readings, so I don't think they are buying long for the US economy. They can only buy some much oil & gold with the USD, so where else is it to park it massive trade surplus $'s? In a very liquid mortgage of the US... Again, another thread entirely.
Take this into context though: if you were Russia, with broke economies and weak leadership to your West, and a up and coming powerhouse to your East, would you capitulate one of your main trade routes and military bases to the EU?
And I do agree with the Bear's rearmament; they are putting those trade surpluses to work also.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 17:06
Chunky, we could start a whole new thread on this one; you're right! I will comment though; the Chinese gov't typically buys short term bonds from my readings, so I don't think they are buying long for the US economy. They can only buy some much oil & gold with the USD, so where else is it to park it massive trade surplus $'s? In a very liquid mortgage of the US... Again, another thread entirely.
Take this into context though: if you were Russia, with broke economies and weak leadership to your West, and a up and coming powerhouse to your East, would you capitulate one of your main trade routes and military bases to the EU?
And I do agree with the Bear's rearmament; they are putting those trade surpluses to work also.
The whole world economic system is a 'scam.' China has minimal debt..hence why countries cannot buy their bond as their currency reserves. US's 16 trillion dollar debt in bonds are held by over 120 countries? Hence why it will stay to be the dominant world reserve. So basically you have to be real deep in debt in order to others to support your currency. It's a crazy paradox!
Ok, back to topic :D
HoneyBadger
03-02-2014, 17:14
Got off the skype with people I know that live near Simferopol.. they say there's nothing going on.. quiet and business as usual
Crimea Standoff: Russian Gunmen Surround Ukraine Military Base (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/crimea-standoff-russian-gunmen-surround-ukraine-military-base-n42406)
SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine - Russian troops surrounded a military base in Ukraine's Crimea region Sunday in a tense standoff as the security crisis in the region deepened.
Armed men arrived at the base in Perevalne and demanded the Ukrainian soldiers inside lay down their weapons.
The Ukrainian forces remained defiant, but were heavily outnumbered.
No shots were fired in what appeared to be the first direct confrontation between Russian and Ukrainian military forces.
Russian troops haven't fired a shot. They don't need to. With rocket-propelled grenades at the ready, they have taken over Crimea without resistance and with the backing of most of this region's people.
In the regional capital, Simferopol, a pro-Russian self-defense force protected a statue of Lenin.
The base standoff was another sign that Russia was tightening its grip on Crimea – and its influence in other parts of pro-Russian eastern Ukraine.
In Ukraine’s second city, Kharkiv, there were running battles after local militias thwarted pro-Western demonstrators who tried to attack another Lenin statue.
The scenes underscored the problem facing Ukraine's interim leaders, who are powerless to stop the loss of Crimea.
Yep... Business as usual! Nothing to see here folks!
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 18:00
Yep... Business as usual! Nothing to see here folks!
Hey you cannot argue with RUSSIA STRONNGGGGGG!!! crews as much as with OBAMA STRONGGGGGGG!!! guys.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 18:36
Good reading on timeline, and some videos.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/af7a59ff4ad8
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/s403x403/1970394_10152028085132971_228444044_n.jpg
Seven World Powers Suspend Preparations for G-8 Summit in Russia (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/seven-world-powers-suspend-preparations-g-8-summit-russia-n42701)
Ahead of a planned summit of industrialized nations — scheduled to take place in Russia — seven world powers Sunday denounced Russia's hostile takeover of Crimea and said they are suspending preparations for the Sochi talks.
In a joint statement, the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States — the members of the "G-8" summit, sans Russia — condemned "the Russian Federation's clear violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine."
"We have decided for the time being to suspend our participation in activities associated with the preparation of the scheduled G-8 Summit in Sochi in June, until the environment comes back where the G-8 is able to have meaningful discussion," the statement said.
The world powers called on Russia to "address any ongoing security or human rights concerns" that it has with Ukraine and pressed "all parties concerned to behave with the greatest extent of self-restraint and responsibility, and to decrease the tensions."
European leaders on Sunday called for calm in the midst of international outrage over Russia’s incursion into Crimea as Secretary of State John Kerry announced he will travel to Ukraine (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/kerry-ukraine-world-calls-calm-crimea-n42601) on Tuesday to meet with both legislators and civilians.
Kerry on Sunday called Russia's takeover of Crimea — which is shaping into the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War — an “incredible act of aggression. (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/kerry-denounces-russian-act-aggression-warns-trade-freeze-n42326)"
Why am I here in the US? I was sent here by Putin personally to spy on CO AR-15 and report back [Coffee]
I am pretty sure we have former Ukrainians and Russians here. I would like to her their inputs as well.
ChunkyMonkey
03-03-2014, 17:57
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/putins-playbook-the-strategy-behind-russias-takeover-of-crimea/284154/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/03/ukraine-russia-putin-obama-kerry-hague-eu/5966173/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/03/ukraine-russia-putin-obama-kerry-hague-eu/5966173/)
Russian Passports issued to Crimeans, Ultimatum to the few thousands Ukrainian military personel trapped in their bases to surrender. De ja vu from 8/8/8
<MADDOG>
03-03-2014, 18:14
The movement of Russian troops into Crimea has caused an international outcry. Western leaders have been quick to condemn the move as an “invasion”, and assault on “democracy” and international law. However, there are a number of points that must first be examined. First and foremost is the fact that the Russia-Ukraine Friendship Treaty establishes that Crimea, and Sevastopol specifically, represents a strategic national interest for Russia. Moreover, it codifies the fact that the protection of the rights of the people of Crimea is the responsibility of the Ukrainian government. However, what happens when a so called government in Kiev is openly hostile to the region? Who then is responsible for the Russians living there? With Kiev’s putsch government having the backing of the US, NATO and Europe, it seems that no one other than Russia could possibly guarantee the security of Crimea.
Second is the fact that Russia’s naval facilities are undoubtedly of vital national security interest to Moscow. Considering the openly hostile attitude expressed by the new Security and National Defense Committee leadership in Kiev, it seems clear that Russia’s national security interests would be under threat. There is ample precedent in international law justifying Russia moving to protect its forces in Crimea. Moreover, with Ukraine falling into the hands of Nazi elements, a sound argument could be made that, beyond the Crimea, Ukraine poses a danger to the security of Russia proper. Naturally, all of these nuances are left completely out of the narrative of Western corporate media.
Third, and perhaps most important, is the fact that the putsch government in Kiev is absolutely illegal under international law. Yanukovich, whatever negative things could be said about him and his government (and there are many), was never defeated in a democratic election. Rather, he was chased out of the country by a violent mob that has now been consecrated by the much touted “international community” (read US-EU-NATO) as the recognized government. This is a blatant violation of Ukraine’s Constitution, not to mention international law and the accepted principles of modern democracy. With Yanukovich having taken refuge in Russia, and still being the legal President of Ukraine, isn’t it fair to say that Russia is acting as the guarantor of international law, rather than its enemy?
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/reports-of-russian-military-action-in.html
ChunkyMonkey
03-03-2014, 18:26
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/03/reports-of-russian-military-action-in.html
Pretty biased piece due to the fact that Putin is a king himself and known to assisinate and jail journalists and opponents. Russia has been wanting Crimea back forever and this is the only real reason.. if this is justified, then Russia should return Kuril Island and Kaliningrad to the rightful owners (Lets not forget 8/8/8 land grab). Furthermore, what does the blogger meant by International Rule.. the only I can think of is UN rule article 2/7, which prohibited UN and its members to intervene in domestic dispute.
Not taking side.. just trying to be as objective.
<MADDOG>
03-03-2014, 19:27
Pretty biased piece due to the fact that Putin is a king himself and known to assisinate and jail journalists and opponents. Russia has been wanting Crimea back forever and this is the only real reason.. if this is justified, then Russia should return Kuril Island and Kaliningrad to the rightful owners (Lets not forget 8/8/8 land grab). Furthermore, what does the blogger meant by International Rule.. the only I can think of is UN rule article 2/7, which prohibited UN and its members to intervene in domestic dispute.
Not taking side.. just trying to be as objective.
Bias is a horrible thing, isn't it? I don't sense any of it in some of the preceding posts. :D
WWII/Korea era land grabs? You can do better than that Chunky! [Beer]
Oh, and Georgia...That was Putin's Bay of Pigs, for lack of another facsimile; he just did it in the wide open with the Russian army, and won. [LOL]
I'm not touching the "assassinate and jail" comment with a 10 ft pole, it's could derail the thread like the economy...
At the end of the day IMO, Putin's action are no more or less justified than has been the US' actions in Panama, Grenada, Haiti, etc.
Oh, and I still think this is a fart in the windstorm of history...
ChunkyMonkey
03-03-2014, 20:05
Oh, and I still think this is a fart in the windstorm of history...
No doubt. I just responded to the blog you posted. I understand you dont think the US should be involved in anything globally... I think you misunderstood my posts of latest news on the current events as my personal opinion.
<MADDOG>
03-03-2014, 20:13
I have no problem dealing with true threats, I just don't think this is one of them. Nonetheless, I think we just disagree on petty details...[Beer]
ChunkyMonkey
03-03-2014, 20:17
I have no problem dealing with true threats, I just don't think this is one of them. Nonetheless, I think we just disagree on petty details...[Beer]
To me its more about our weak leadership than anything else. You don't really require an 'action' w/ a strong leadership.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-prepares-1b-aid-package-troubled-ukraine-123023425--politics.html
So where is this money coming from again?
<MADDOG>
03-04-2014, 10:38
From Yellen's and Lew's sphincter...
ChunkyMonkey
03-04-2014, 10:50
http://news.yahoo.com/us-prepares-1b-aid-package-troubled-ukraine-123023425--politics.html
So where is this money coming from again?
This is so stupid.. we just raised the debt ceiling!
This is so stupid.. we just raised the debt ceiling!
Well people were wanting the US to take a strong stance... well getting involved costs money.
ChunkyMonkey
03-04-2014, 11:02
Well people were wanting the US to take a strong stance... well getting involved costs money.
Peace through Strenght policy is a good example where The US invested in DOMESTIC military industries along with other DOMESTIC strategic industries in order to have a LARGE STICK for a strong stance. Throwing money away at the foreign's numb nut to show 'support' while cutting own's military budget and military pension is dumb.
And DOMESTIC military costs money too.
Really I question whether the US can fight any long term war/goal since we followed the "Free Market" freaks off a cliff and out sourced darn near all of our means of production overseas. "Free Trade" was not free, in the end ALL war is an economic battle, you fight it with manpower and manufacturing resources. China is our manufacturer now.
Yeah lets go get in a war with Russia... what could ever go wrong given our current situation.
ChunkyMonkey
03-04-2014, 11:32
And DOMESTIC military costs money too.
Really I question whether the US can fight any long term war/goal since we followed the "Free Market" freaks off a cliff and out sourced darn near all of our means of production overseas. "Free Trade" was not free, in the end ALL war is an economic battle, you fight it with manpower and manufacturing resources. China is our manufacturer now.
Yeah lets go get in a war with Russia... what could ever go wrong given our current situation.
You are beyond help. Would you rather have the $1 billion stays in the US or in Ukraine? AND who's talking about military intervention? Stop being such drama queen all the time.
You are beyond help. Would you rather have the $1 billion stays in the US or in Ukraine? AND who's talking about military intervention? Stop being such drama queen all the time.
Did I say I want us to give money to the Ukraine? I am just pointing out that it is a no win situation. If we want the US to regain our standing in the world, then we need to focus on building our nation. That includes putting our nations interests for manufacturing might over wallstreets profit motive to outsource to slave labor China. Do that and we regain military and foreign policy might for the US.
ChunkyMonkey
03-04-2014, 11:52
Did I say I want us to give money to the Ukraine? I am just pointing out that it is a no win situation. If we want the US to regain our standing in the world, then we need to focus on building our nation. That includes putting our nations interests for manufacturing might over wallstreets profit motive to outsource to slave labor China. Do that and we regain military and foreign policy might for the US.
Oh you gonna get me in trouble for laughing so hard while sitting here in a closing. While I agree with you on domestic strength, you are such a hypocrite. Unions drives manufacturing jobs away.. If you get your way of $15 minimum wage, more will follow.
We are off topic.
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Monkey... union or not. What American can compete with slave labor that makes 3 dollars a day? The Union stuff is an excuse and you know it. I think Unions are a problem, but one that bears no meaning compared to that truth.
And yes we are off topic. But its all related. The US has no standing in the world like we use to because we no longer have economic manufacturing might like we did in the past.
<MADDOG>
03-04-2014, 12:00
nynco; a different thread entirely...
I'm still searching as to whom/what the money is going to...
Is the Ukrainian "government" not still picking up the pieces and nominating key personnel?
Also, the article mentions "energy subsidies". Does the Ukraine not buy its resources from Russia?
I will stop. I also have no doubt the money is being stolen and put into some Ukrainian Neo Nazis Fascist pocket. Because we all know that 1 billion dollars... well all of that will put to good use.[facepalm]
RblDiver
03-04-2014, 16:14
Russia test-fired an ICBM today. Apparently this was well known in advance of even the Crimea situation, but I'd think calling it off would have been a sign of willingness to work (so, clearly Putin wouldn't want that). http://news.yahoo.com/russia-test-fires-icbm-amid-tension-over-ukraine-193003190--sector.html;_ylt=AwrBJR9IKhZTKSMAfjrQtDMD
It was pointed out that a game released in November 2003 featured a Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula and a NATO counter assault.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_On:_Modern_Air_Combat
It was pointed out that a game released in November 2003 featured a Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula and a NATO counter assault.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_On:_Modern_Air_Combat
LOL... a Russian software developer makes a game about a Russian invasion of Crimea and a NATO counter assault??? LOL
pretty sure it's just a flight simulator
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