California couple finds 10 million in gold coins on their property

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/27/california-couple-in-10m-gold-find-to-owe-govt-about-half-report-says/



One couple's gold find could mean a jackpot for the IRS.


The Northern California couple that found $10 million worth of rare, mint-condition gold coins buried in the shadow of an old tree on their property will likely owe about half the find's value whether they sell the gold or not.


The San Francisco Chronicle reports that the find is a taxable event under a 1969 federal court ruling that held a "treasure trove" is taxable the year it was discovered.


"If you find and keep property that does not belong to you that has been lost or abandoned (treasure-trove), it is taxable to you at its fair market value in the first year it is your undisputed possession,” the report said, citing the IRS tax guide.


The report says after all is said and done, about 47 percent will go to state and federal tax, or the top tax rate.


An accountant told the paper that the couple can try to fight the tax and claim it was there when they bought the property.


Nearly all of the 1,427 coins that were found, dating from 1847 to 1894, were in uncirculated, mint condition, said David Hall, co-founder of Professional Coin Grading Service of Santa Ana, which recently authenticated them. Although the face value of the gold pieces only adds up to about $27,000, some of them are so rare that coin experts say they could fetch nearly $1 million apiece.


"I don't like to say once-in-a-lifetime for anything, but you don't get an opportunity to handle this kind of material, a treasure like this, ever," said veteran numismatist Don Kagin, who is representing the finders. "It's like they found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow."


Kagin, whose family has been in the rare-coin business for 81 years, would say little about the couple other than that they are husband and wife, are middle-aged and have lived for several years on the rural property where the coins were found. They have no idea who put them there, he said.


The pair are choosing to remain anonymous, Kagin said, in part to avoid a renewed gold rush to their property by modern-day prospectors armed with metal detectors.


They also don't want to be treated any differently, said David McCarthy, chief numismatist for Kagin Inc. of Tiburon.


They plan to put most of the coins up for sale through Amazon while holding onto a few keepsakes. They'll use the money to pay off bills and quietly donate to local charities, Kagin said.


Before they sell them, they are loaning some to the American Numismatic Association for its National Money Show, which opens Thursday in Atlanta.


What makes their find particularly valuable, McCarthy said, is that almost all of the coins are in near-perfect condition. That means that whoever put them into the ground likely socked them away as soon as they were put into circulation.


Because paper money was illegal in California until the 1870s, he added, it's extremely rare to find any coins from before that of such high quality.


"It wasn't really until the 1880s that you start seeing coins struck in California that were kept in real high grades of preservation," he said.


The coins, in $5, $10 and $20 denominations, were stored more or less in chronological order, McCarthy said, with the 1840s and 1850s pieces going into one canister until it was filed, then new coins going into the next one and the next one after that. The dates and the method indicated that whoever put them there was using the ground as their personal bank and that they weren't swooped up all at once in a robbery.


Although most of the coins were minted in San Francisco, one $5 gold piece came from as far away as Georgia.


Kagin and McCarthy would say little about the couple's property or its ownership history, other than it's in a sprawling hilly area of Gold Country and the coins were found along a path the couple had walked for years. On the day they found them last spring, the woman had bent over to examine an old rusty can that erosion had caused to pop slightly out of the ground.


"Don't be above bending over to check on a rusty can," he said she told him.


The Associated Press contributed to this report



Dumbassess, why would you even say anything? Not only is the .gov gonna bone you for your finding. But ever tom dick and second cousin Harry is going to try to "catch up on old times".

You better believe if I find, win or steal anything over a million bucks you'll never see or hear from me again.

"Hey, you remember that trashy white dude? Yeah, I think he bought 100 acres and a double wide in Kansas"

[crays]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/27/california-couple-in-10m-gold-find-to-owe-govt-about-half-report-says/



Dumbassess, why would you even say anything? Not only is the .gov gonna bone you for your finding. But ever tom dick and second cousin Harry is going to try to "catch up on old times".

You better believe if I find, win or steal anything over a million bucks you'll never see or hear from me again.

"Hey, you remember that trashy white dude? Yeah, I think he bought 100 acres and a double wide in Kansas"

Or, at least, "We found ONE can, with a FEW gold coins..."

HC nailed it. Full disclosure will wreck their lives.

Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

[Great-Kazoo]

Or, at least, "We found ONE can, with a FEW gold coins..."

HC nailed it. Full disclosure will wreck their lives.

Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

Not at all. The story is a week old. The way they plan to redistribute the wealth, by giving back to the community, will take any heat off them. Now if they were some folks who wanted to invest their find in to a business the family always wanted, but couldn't afford. You bet some .gov agency would take an interest.

[speedysst]

Yeah well I also read that they may "owe" the government 47% in taxes because of some stupid "treasure trove" tax law. I really hate that word "owe" since the government has absolutely NO right to ANY of that.

[BPTactical]

First rule of find the gold club.
STFU.

But realistically there is no way it would have been kept secret.
And agreed the Feds should FOAD.
Finders keepers and all.

[Robb]

I just read that 47% tax rate, what a kick in the nutz that must be.

[T-Giv]

If I were to locate such a find I would quietly do my own research and pitch the coins out into the market slowly as to not raise any blips on the radar. Travel around to different states to distribute each coin in a stealthy manner. The .gov would never catch wind of my scheme and I'd walk with a big chunk of change.

[Great-Kazoo]

If I were to locate such a find I would quietly do my own research and pitch the coins out into the market slowly as to not raise any blips on the radar. Travel around to different states to distribute each coin in a stealthy manner. The .gov would never catch wind of my scheme and I'd walk with a big chunk of change.

The finders are CA Liberals, to say the least. Stealth, or wealth, is not their MO.

[T-Giv]

The finders are CA Liberals, to say the least. Stealth, or wealth, is not their MO.

Good point. They likely won't even dispute the claim by the IRS. Too bad that there aren't some gold coins buried in my yard. Only tip you guys would pick up on would be how is T-Giv buying EVERY SINGLE gun that pops up in the trading post. What is he? Made of money? Did he find a box of late 1800's gold coins buried in his yard or something? [ROFL1]

[sniper7]

Just walked around my yard and the only thing I found I wish the government would come get it...I hate picking up dog poop.

[BladesNBarrels]

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that the find is a taxable event under a 1969 federal court ruling that held a "treasure trove" is taxable the year it was discovered.


"If you find and keep property that does not belong to you that has been lost or abandoned (treasure-trove), it is taxable to you at its fair market value in the first year it is your undisputed possession,” the report said, citing the IRS tax guide.


The report says after all is said and done, about 47 percent will go to state and federal tax, or the top tax rate.


An accountant told the paper that the couple can try to fight the tax and claim it was there when they bought the property.


Sure think it would be worth arguing that it qualifies as Capital Gains. They just knew that the land had something valuable on it when they bought it since it is located in Gold Country.

[Dunno]

[hatidua]

I'd be willing to bet the "California couple" are starting to have serious regrets about their "let's go tell the press what we found and get our 15 minutes of fame" idea.

[Firehaus]

Sure think it would be worth arguing that it qualifies as Capital Gains. They just knew that the land had something valuable on it when they bought it since it is located in Gold Country.

[Dunno]

That's the same angle of an article I just read since they own the land it's found on. Is it really any different than finding oil on your property that you didn't know was there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BladesNBarrels]

That's the same angle of an article I just read since they own the land it's found on. Is it really any different than finding oil on your property that you didn't know was there?




For 47% of $10 Million, it would be worth some cost of fighting it in Tax Court.
Too bad Oil and Gas has its own tax rules.

[rondog]

Since they were stupid enough to announce to the WORLD what they found, I give no shits about their woes. You find something like that, you immediately move it to a safer place and STFU about it! A friggin' cheeseburger should have that much sense.

[speedysst]

Why the hell should people have to hide stuff from the IRS? Just another way to steal money from the people. Its just as bad as the inheritance tax.
Since they were stupid enough to announce to the WORLD what they found, I give no shits about their woes. You find something like that, you immediately move it to a safer place and STFU about it! A friggin' cheeseburger should have that much sense.

[rondog]

Why the hell should people have to hide stuff from the IRS? Just another way to steal money from the people. Its just as bad as the inheritance tax.

Nobody SHOULD HAVE TO, but the fact remains that there are thieves and parasites everywhere! If the Fed Gov doesn't try to take it, the State Gov will, and the previous landowners heirs for generations, and every friend/relative you have, and every friend/relative you've lost track of or disowned, and every charity in the book, and every scam artist in the country, and burglars, and armed robbers, and so on and so on. Just like winning the Lottery. People will look at you and point you out everywhere you go. Privacy? What's that?

Come into a windfall of any kind? Keepeth thy yap shut and keepeth thou a low profile. Lest ye be beset upon by all manner of beggars and thieves.

If I should ever win a lottery, my first order of business would be to hire a lawyer to keep my name a secret. I'd do everything possible to stay anonymous, even if I had to create a trust and claim the prize through it.

[newracer]

There is a good write up on that other AR15 site that details what to do fi you win the lottery. I think I posted it here once too.

[rbeau30]

Just walked around my yard and the only thing I found I wish the government would come get it...I hate picking up dog poop.

Me too, especially since I don't own a dog. I sure as heck would not say a damn thing. Probably not even spend it real fast. I would be doing a lot of bartering.


WHY is the government even taxing them on the metal value of the coins? Shouldn't they be taxed on lets say... $133,000 face value? LOL Go to a FIAT currency, get FIAT taxes from my finds!

[Squeeze]

Or, at least, "We found ONE can, with a FEW gold coins..."

HC nailed it. Full disclosure will wreck their lives.

Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

Remember, we're talking about a couple from Kalifornia here...not a lot of common sense floating around in that state.

[ben4372]

Me too, especially since I don't own a dog. I sure as heck would not say a damn thing. Probably not even spend it real fast. I would be doing a lot of bartering.


WHY is the government even taxing them on the metal value of the coins? Shouldn't they be taxed on lets say... $133,000 face value? LOL Go to a FIAT currency, get FIAT taxes from my finds! Ageed. Had inflation not happened, it would still be $133,000.

[Tinelement]

Did I miss it, but how many coins make $10 mil?

[Irving]

Did I miss it, but how many coins make $10 mil?

Face value of coins ($1, $5, $10, & $20 coins), only add up to $27,000. Some of the coins are rare enough that a single one could fetch up to $1 million.

[rbeau30]

I was basing it off a quick hypothetical $1300 per $20 gold double eagle.

[Tinelement]

Some of the coins are rare enough that a single one could fetch up to $1 million.

That would suck

[kidicarus13]

They may receive a reward... http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html?vp=1

[rbeau30]

So now the government is going to Look into the retired Mint records and make up some "records" of an inside job of a error revenge coin. That no one knows about.

[Firehaus]

They may receive a reward... http://gma.yahoo.com/10m-gold-coin-hoard-found-yard-may-stolen-141317823--abc-news-personal-finance.html?vp=1

I think they've ruled out past theft theories based on minting dates and condition of the coins.

http://news.msn.com/us/california-gold-discovery-spurs-rush-of-theories



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TFOGGER]

Now the .gov is trying to claim that ALL of the money is theirs...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/04/us/california-gold-discovery/


(CNN) -- Chief Clerk Walter Dimmick (http://www.usmint.gov/kids/coinnews/mintfacilities/sfo/) was convicted of stealing six bags of gold coins -- worth $30,000 -- in 1901 from the U.S. Mint in San Francisco.
More than 100 years later, a California couple unearths a secret stash of coins, with a combined face value of about $27,000. Most were minted in San Francisco.
Coincidence?
Sure is, said Adam Stump, spokesman for the U.S. Mint.
"We do not have any information linking the Saddle Ridge Hoard coins to any thefts at any United States Mint facility," he told CNN.
The spokesman was responding to the latest wave of speculation that kicked off after The San Francisco Chronicle published a report Monday, suggesting a turn-of-the-century heist could explain the possible provenance of the coins.
Separately, Stump told the newspaper (http://blog.sfgate.com/stienstra/2014/03/04/gold-coin-update-heist-explanation-unlikely/#21188101=0): "We've done quite a bit of research, and we've got a crack team of lawyers, and trust me, if this was U.S. government property we'd be going after it."

[rbeau30]

Now the .gov is trying to claim that ALL of the money is theirs...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/04/us/california-gold-discovery/


Yup, And what is the moral of the story? I guess since I have been through a divorce I wouldn't let anyone know either, cuz what is worse than the blood sucking government? A blood sucking ex-wife who just found out that you found a stash of gold coins, and thinks she needs a peice of the pie... "because it is only fair for the children"

[TFOGGER]

Find, shovel, shut up?

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Or maybe they found 100 million and this is the govs cut.

[BPTactical]

They were talking about this a bit on the radio and the moral of the story is STFU. I guess there was a bit about some family that won a sizeable settlement and part of the agreement was not to discuss any aspect of the case. Well the 13 yo daughter is all happy about winning the settlement and gets on BookFace and blabber all about it.
The judge who presided over the case gets wind of it and rules they violated the provisions of the settlement agreement.
Bye bye settlement.
The gist of it is why do people feel so compelled to blab every aspect of their lives?
Woo-hoo! Lookey at me, I scored X and now I must tell the world!


Dumbass's

[rockhound]

STFU,

Sent the coins to a public auction house for sale and then advertised it. Started a hype campaign to get the most out the coins. Private collectors one at a time.

Facebook reality, if you tell everyone about your business, guess what, everyone will know.

In my opinion, it would be almost impossible for the Govt to proove that the coins were theirs. IRS should be happy with the taxes they will collect when these pwople sell them.

If i find a million bucks, coins, cash or whaterver buried for decades in my back yard. Guaranteed you will never hear a word about it.

[rockhound]

Got what they deserved.

Galaxy Note II + Tapatalk 2

no I dont think they deserved it, i think they are getting what they should expect from your overreaching anany state govt that we have allowed to grow and flourish in this country.

[Aloha_Shooter]

To be fair to them, it's highly unlikely you will ever "quietly" dump something worth $500K-$1M. For that matter, you're fooling yourself if you're planning on a "quiet" financial transaction for more than $10K. Try to do that and you look like you're evading more than just taxes. They were far better off doing what they did, coming right out in the open and ready to pay assessed taxes once the coins are sold.

I'm not against taxes per se; taxes are the price we pay to have a Society instead of just a Population. I'm against unreasonable or unconstitutional taxes. I'm against stupid taxes that are invoked or increased based on emotional appeals of what's "fair" as opposed to what's required to pay for programs.

Having said all that, I agree, they're Kalipornians. They should let Gov Moonbeam take it all, give them a $10K finders fee, and be happy about it.

[rockhound]

i am not suggesting they hide from their taxes, i am just sugggesting that they not dump the whole load at once. paying the taxes as they are requred and as they actually realize the income.

in reality there may be no way to do it easily, but shouting it from the roof tops is definitely not the way i would handle it.

[Limited GM]

I'd buy one of those melting pots and a ingot mold. Sell one off every now and then far and wide as an old heirloom.

[newracer]

I'd buy one of those melting pots and a ingot mold. Sell one off every now and then far and wide as an old heirloom.

Many if not all are worth more as the coin than the gold content.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Many if not all are worth more as the coin than the gold content.

I believe ALL of them are worth substantially (as in 10s of times more) more as coins than bullion, even after taxes.

[rondog]

Absolutely! Just buy a couple of books to help ID their values, then travel around from shop to shop, selling a couple here, a couple there, trade for silver, trade for guns, etc.....

Don't tell nobody sheeee-it.