View Full Version : Got into a confrontation at the Sportsmans Warehouse in Loveland today...
JohnnyEgo
03-01-2014, 17:08
So before I begin this story, I should acknowledge up front that I brought this on myself through a poor choice of cover garments. Acknowledging this fact rationally does not, however, make me any less irrate.
My 3 year old was getting house crazy this morning, so I took him on a ride with me to get him out of the house and give my wife some alone time. We went to the Fort Collins Mall where he played in the cesspit / indoor play area for about an hour. Then we went to Jensens to pick up a bottle of MPro7, and Starbucks just because we both love Starbucks. On the way back, my boy said he didn't want to go home. So we went into Sportsmans Warehouse to pick up some cleaning patches and look at the (literally) 'stuffed animals'.
After doing the in-the-cart / out-of-the-cart / on-Daddy's-Shoulders / under-the-cart / back-in-the-cart olympics with my son, we wandered over to the gun counter. They had a Ruger Bearcat Shopkeeper out that I wanted to take a look at. I engaged in a short conversation with the gun counter guy about the various size models of the Bearcat. An older (50s/60s) guy wandered up next to us, and the counter guy asked how he could help. The 'customer' asked if all guns were supposed to be checked at the front. The counter guy asked if customer guy had a gun to check, at which point the customer guy pointed to me. I looked to my side, and sure enough, my coat had ridden up and part of the grip of my 1911 was exposed.
I apologized to the customer for exposing my firearm, and slid my jacket back over it. The customer then asked the counter guy what he was going to do about this. Now I was irritated. I asked customer guy if he was offended or concerned about the fact that I had a firearm. He wouldn't look me directly in the eye. He just kept stating that everyone has to check their guns at the front of the store. Now there was a small crowd of customers around. I asked the customer if he felt I should leave the store. Again, he just kept looking at the counter guy and saying that everyone should have to follow the rules.
The counter guy looked pretty uncomfortable. He turned to me and said that it was true they had the rule. I advised that I would leave the store. He said that I didn't have to leave, I just needed to check the firearm. I thanked him for his time and advised him that I would leave anyways. So I collected my toddler and headed to the front of the store, while he kicked and screamed about not getting to see the animals.
In the moment, all I could think of was 'wearing a gun, need to be polite'. Decided that wasn't the time to argue about store policy, individual rights, or whether my individual right trumped that of the property owners. I'd been publicly outed as violating the store policy, we'd already made enough of a scene, and I had my toddler with me. So I didn't raise my voice, didn't scream/swear/show out. I simply left.
I thought about this a lot on the way home. I knew the store policy when I entered. I had not realized that my gun was exposed, and I made a poor choice of cover garment for lots of bending, lifting, and moving screaming toddlers about. So I'll be the first to admit I have been robbed of the righteous part of my indignation. However, in this situation, the customer had several options. He could have politely pointed out that my firearm was exposed. He could have said nothing. Or he could have waited until I had left the vicinity to advise the counter guy that I was violating store policy. Instead, he chose to call attention to my error in a way so that it was public and I knew he did it. And I think that is what makes him a dick.
Jumpstart
03-01-2014, 17:15
"And I think that is what makes him a dick." This.
newracer
03-01-2014, 17:15
I thought their policy was to check any firearm that was going to be serviced and CCW did not need to be checked.
"And I think that is what makes him a dick." This.
Ditto this
I thought their policy was to check any firearm that was going to be serviced and CCW did not need to be checked.
Ditto this. Every sign I've sen in any "sportman's" outdoor store has been related to weapons to be serviced or otherwise needing to be unholstered. Concealed means concealed.
And I'll add again, the other guy was a complete dick and I would have called him a dick to his face before I left the store.
ChunkyMonkey
03-01-2014, 17:22
Dont worry too much about that asshole.. he is probably still butthurted about standing in line for hours to register his guns in MA -- while the braves resist!
I never checked my guns anywhere.. Either I left them in my vehicle or carry concealed.
TriggerHappy
03-01-2014, 17:22
I give this rant a 2/10. Guy sounds like a D-bag. There's always a couple out there. Good job not telling him to pound sand..
blacklabel
03-01-2014, 17:24
I thought their policy was to check any firearm that was going to be serviced and CCW did not need to be checked.
That was my impression as well. I sure as hell don't check in my concealed handgun when I walk through their doors.
JohnnyEgo
03-01-2014, 17:25
I'm inexperienced at ranting. I am normally a very low conflict sort of guy, and don't often find myself in rant-worthy exchanges. I'll try to do better next time, god forbid.
kidicarus13
03-01-2014, 17:26
The customer was an ass. You should have exited stage left without comment although I would've said something to the customer also. You'll be more careful with cover garments in the future. Life goes on.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2014, 17:30
I'm inexperienced at ranting. I am normally a very low conflict sort of guy, and don't often find myself in rant-worthy exchanges. I'll try to do better next time, god forbid.
you sure as shit better.
streetglideok
03-01-2014, 17:32
He is still pissy over his army son getting screwed over by some marine that runs an auto repair shop in the metro area... oh Hey tmleader lol
JohnnyEgo
03-01-2014, 17:36
you sure as shit better.
Next time I get into a public confrontation, I will conference you in on speaker-phone.
What gets me it is a store that sells firearms and accessories, and somebody gets offended seeing someone else carrying...Pathetic...[fail]
blacklabel
03-01-2014, 17:47
You should have called the other customer a Fudd and walked away.
I'm almost positive that Sportsmans policy doesn't limit it to CCW. I believe it says "carry" but not "concealed carry". I say you were fine, and I would have checked the sign to point it out.
I probably would have re-concealed the weapon and said to the customer "it's ok. I have a permit." And then kept right on shopping as usual.
I would've apologized to the employee for this "uncomfortable position" the dickface customer forced him into, then I would've looked at the moron and said, "Hey I have an idea. Why don't you play a nice game of hide and go fuck yourself." Then I would've clarified with management if CCW was an exception to their silly rule on my way out the door.
The 'customer' asked if all guns were supposed to be checked at the front. The counter guy asked if customer guy had a gun to check, at which point the customer guy pointed to me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/tattletail_zpsbdf2d175.jpg
JohnnyEgo
03-01-2014, 18:08
My gun was not concealed the moment my jacket rode over it, and customer-guy didn't seem like a good candidate to get into a semantic argument over rules with. Swearing was out because of my toddler, who has already picked up enough of my bad language as it stands.
Just to fully paint the picture, customer-guy was mid fifties early sixties, in an 80s style brown leather jacket, an unbranded black ball-cap with the mesh backing, and was wearing aviators in the store. Keep in mind it is a crappy, overcast day outside, let alone under the dim florescent lighting inside. He looked like a near-retirement version of mid '80s Jan Michael Vincent.
I also have the feeling that somewhere as we speak, he is logging into AngryBitterOldMan.com, and authoring a thread about how he made a young punk follow the rules like everyone else, even when the store didn't seem to care. It's probably in their 'Keeping them off my lawn" forum.
Double00
03-01-2014, 18:17
That idiot is not worth your time!!!!
Customer is a jackass. He should have either said nothing to anybody or told you that your piece was showing and move on.
Too bad no one else didn't say anything. I know I sure as shit would have said something to him.
I asked about the guns need to be checked sign, the answer i got was if the gun is going to be unholstered for any reason it needs to be checked otherwise your fine open or concealed. Too bad the employee did not know the store policy.
I asked about the guns need to be checked sign, the answer i got was if the gun is going to be upholstered for any reason it needs to be checked otherwise your fine open or concealed. Too bad the employee did not know the store policy.
You upholster your guns? [Coffee]
10mm-man
03-01-2014, 18:32
I give this rant a 2/10. Guy sounds like a D-bag. There's always a couple out there. Good job not telling him to pound sand..
I'll agree! But it get's a 1/10 for being a really long read. I give the boy a 10/10 for screaming, and kicking is way out of the store! Poor lil dude.......
Edit: Dude was a tool! You handled yourself well.
You upholster your guns? [Coffee]
Oops [ROFL1]
Yeah, should have just went from partially concealed to full OC and said "Oh thanks, I didn't know it had gotten partly covered up!"
I'm sure I would have had to explain that the "rule" he was so concerned with was in regards to firearms being carried in for reasons other than defensive carry. A friggin' cheeseburger should have enough sense to know that.
I applaud the OP for being cool... Guy wouldn't even speak to you directly? He deserved one of these:
41543
TheBelly
03-01-2014, 18:59
I have a very calm way of handling situations like that. After I cover the gun back up, And the 'customer' continues to pry, i tell the 'customer', "Eat A Dick!" A good stare down right after is required. If the 'customer' doesn't have the stones to look you in the eye, then he probably isn't a man and he probably likes a penis in his mouth.
Then i go back to what I was doing.
If I'm not violating property owner (store manager) policies, then I'll seek clarification on what the policy entails. If I'm not in the wrong, then so be it. If the 'counter guy' is wrong, then the manager should get him up to speed PDQ.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
03-01-2014, 19:00
There are plenty of shops and stores that I have forgotten even existed thanks to their owners, employees, or regulars attitudes towards me. It's no skin off my back to take my business/money elsewhere. Or to go online and leave nasty reviews for them before I forget about them. Honestly you probably did the right thing, escalating the situation with a kid and gun on board could end in nasty ammo for the "other side". But I think I would have had a hard time not talking shite to some guy who wanted to start crap while not even looking me in the eye.
I think you did the right thing.
Armed society is a polite society (except that grumpy old customer at the Sportsman's ).
The last time I saw someone exposing what was supposed to be a concealed firearm I said "Thank you for carrying!". Kills two birds with one stone, let's the guy know I'm not a dick, and informs him he's showing :)
O2
You screwed up, you knew it and handled it correctly, espeically with your kid around. He called you on it, handled it poorly so you have the moral high ground. The fact is you made us all look better because you probably could have pushed it in a place that most of the people in that crowd understood what happened and may have even backed you.... But you did not.
Don't sweat it too much, it sounds like a life lesson that will have you wearing a better shirt next time. That is the obvious point of CCW. Out at CRC if your CCW gets exposed you can get called on it and made to case your gun if exposed... And that is a respected gun range.
You actually won if you think about it.
And thanks for showing us gun owners for who we are.
Good on you OP for being the bigger man. I would've done the same.
Other customer was just being an asshole. Life goes on.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2014, 19:38
And thanks for showing us gun owners for who we are.
he did good. I'm curious if the "pussy" who complained was even a gun owner, or one of those for the kids types, out looking for a confrontation.
"Sir, I believe a whole bag of dicks should be on your menu."
Child safe FU...
buckshotbarlow
03-01-2014, 19:58
I would've apologized to the employee for this "uncomfortable position" the dickface customer forced him into, then I would've looked at the moron and said, "Hey I have an idea. Why don't you play a nice game of hide and go fuck yourself." Then I would've clarified with management if CCW was an exception to their silly rule on my way out the door.
thxs, i just had melted cherry cobbler ice cream come out of my nose...
I was in Sam's Club on Thursday and a heavy set guy, in his 60's with his shirt tucked in and no jacket, walks in with a 1911 on his belt. He came in with his wife, no badges or any other LEO markings. I noticed a lot of people looking and he kept looking around to see if anyone was going to say anything. He spent 10 minutes by the front door cleaning off his cart with the free wipes. The first thing I always think when I see a guy with a 1911 is I want to ask; what brand? what holster? what sights? what barrel length? blue or stainless? what grips? any special work done? But, I was waiting in line at customer service and he disappeared into the store.
<MADDOG>
03-01-2014, 20:42
I'll agree! But it get's a 1/10 for being a really long read. I give the boy a 10/10 for screaming, and kicking is way out of the store! Poor lil dude.......
Edit: Dude was a tool! You handled yourself well.
+1
thxs, i just had melted cherry cobbler ice cream come out of my nose...
Sorry 'bout that. ;)
SideShow Bob
03-01-2014, 21:56
"AngryBitterOldMan.com"
Now that is completely offensive to at least 1/2 the membership.
I demand that you disarm yourself, then apologize...........
UrbanWolf
03-01-2014, 21:59
Excuse me, what does it mean when they "check" your gun? Like make sure it's unloaded or leave it on their front with a name tag till you leave and pick it up?
I would have told the guy to fu*k off.
Great-Kazoo
03-01-2014, 22:12
Excuse me, what does it mean when they "check" your gun? Like make sure it's unloaded or leave it on their front with a name tag till you leave and pick it up?
Check your gun, Like a hat or coat check.
If you want to get technical. SW is violation the current law, by taking possession of someone's firearm, w/out performing a BG check. Once when the gun is checked in, and again when giving it back.
ZERO THEORY
03-01-2014, 22:37
He could have politely pointed out that my firearm was exposed.
Nope. He was probably there in another section of the store and is either a fudd or a genuine anti. He got his panties in a bundle and had to make a point of being a douche about it. Fuck that guy.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-01-2014, 23:07
Op I think you handled it very well. How many times have similar conversations escalated to a point we wish it didn't. I applaud you, I'm not sure I've coulda had your restraint.
I should try this. Seems like a great way to avoid spontaneous purchases.
I've seen guys OC in SW before, so I ain't believing any "check your gun" policy. Not for defensive sidearms. Carrying in long guns for returns, problems, etc, I've seen where places just want to check to make sure it's unloaded, cased, etc. Just acknowledging you have it and are taking it to the firearms dept.
I ain't NEVER seen anyplace require you to check in your sidearm at the office when you come in and pick it up when you leave! That would go over like a turd in a punchbowl.
Aloha_Shooter
03-02-2014, 08:13
Actually, I think you handled the situation correctly. The customer could have been a little more polite about it but he was likely looking at it as a rules violation and potential safety issue. I don't see an issue with not checking your weapon if you're carrying concealed but not everyone is conscientious and some of these people actually do stupid stuff like dropping their loaded magazine into a new gun and leaving a round in chamber when they retrieve their magazine.
Sorry you had the confrontation but at least you got to vent. :D
HoneyBadger
03-02-2014, 08:41
Next time I get into a public confrontation, I will conference you in on speaker-phone.
Oh Jee-zus, you'd better get it on video! [ROFL2]
What gets me it is a store that sells firearms and accessories, and somebody gets offended seeing someone else carrying...Pathetic...
Lol this was exactly my thought... Why wasn't everyone there open carrying? It's a flipping GUN STORE.
BPTactical
03-02-2014, 08:55
I would have told him one of two things depending on my mood.
If in a decent mood: "How about you worry about 1 seat and the ass that goes in it."
If in my normal mood: "Do you have any rubber clothes?" Him: "No, why?" is the usual answer. "Because if your gonna act like a dick you should dress appropriately."
Both have ended similar situations promptly.
People like this piss me off. Fudds are almost as big of a danger to our rights as a liberal lesbian dope smoking schoolteacher.
Just yesterday I had a gent drop off a couple of old shotguns for work. There was a member here also who was picking up a barrel or two and letting me ogle his newest acquisition, a Tavor.
Shotgun asked: "What do you NEED a gun like that for?"
Member and I both looked at him with a bit of displeasure and I told him "It's not about need, but rather our Right. Why does somebody NEED a Corvette, a GEO does the same job as the Corvette?"
Shotgun mumbles something about having driven a GEO and knows why you want a Corvette.
I then told him that whether or not he realizes it HIS guns are next. I explained about NY having a 7 rd limit and NJ trying a 1 round limit. He was oblivious to it.
Gun "Control" isn't about guns. It's about "Control."
People like this piss me off. Fudds are almost as big of a danger to our rights as a liberal lesbian dope smoking schoolteacher.
Just yesterday I had a gent drop off a couple of old shotguns for work. There was a member here also who was picking up a barrel or two and letting me ogle his newest acquisition, a Tavor.
Shotgun asked: "What do you NEED a gun like that for?"
Member and I both looked at him with a bit of displeasure and I told him "It's not about need, but rather our Right. Why does somebody NEED a Corvette, a GEO does the same job as the Corvette?"
Shotgun mumbles something about having driven a GEO and knows why you want a Corvette.
I then told him that whether or not he realizes it HIS guns are next. I explained about NY having a 7 rd limit and NJ trying a 1 round limit. He was oblivious to it.
Gun "Control" isn't about guns. It's about "Control."
Hell yes! Bert, you're my hero!
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2014, 10:47
Oh Jee-zus, you'd better get it on video! [ROFL2]
Lol this was exactly my thought... Why wasn't everyone there open carrying? It's a flipping GUN STORE.
I think the guy was intimidated by j/ego's kind demeanor. I would have suggested , unless he was management, to mind his own business.
HoneyBadger
03-02-2014, 11:11
I think the guy was intimidated by j/ego's kind demeanor. I would have suggested , unless he was management, to mind his own business.
I would love to be a spectator when someone approaches YOU like that... [ROFL3]
KevDen2005
03-02-2014, 12:05
Good job on being cool.
And we have definitely raised a "tattle generation." Instead of minding anyone's own business people feel the need to report stuff that doesn't affect them at all. I see it everyday. It gets worse when other cops do it.
blacklabel
03-02-2014, 12:13
Which generation is the tattle generation? The customer was in his 50s or 60s.
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2014, 12:52
I would love to be a spectator when someone approaches YOU like that... [ROFL3]
Happened before, I just nod my head and walk away.
BlasterBob
03-02-2014, 13:09
"AngryBitterOldMan.com"
Now that is completely offensive to at least 1/2 the membership.
I demand that you disarm yourself, then apologize...........
+1 .................[ROFL2]
[blaster]
KevDen2005
03-02-2014, 13:31
Which generation is the tattle generation? The customer was in his 50s or 60s.
Okay, my bad. Every generation from baby boom on, with exponential increases.
Okay, my bad. Every generation from baby boom on, with exponential increases.
IMHO, your generalizations are obtuse.
My sons, 31 and 29, don't act like that. They would have quietly told the OP the same thing I would have - your slip is showing there pahdner. They would actually have likely been more polite on the other side of it than I.
ZERO THEORY
03-02-2014, 15:44
And we have definitely raised a "tattle generation." Instead of minding anyone's own business people feel the need to report stuff that doesn't affect them at all
I was once wheeling with my cousin in an undeveloped lot that had been rutted and pitted by the owner for 4x4 use. There are four climbing hills of various grades, two mud pits, and a few deep tracks that get super muddy in spring/fall. It's a well-known spot that the owner has left for people to wheel in, but it has a private property sign posted.
While we were wheeling our rigs, I see this women on the road that leads there parked and holding her cameraphone out to record us. I wave and assume she wants to capture some footage of Jeepers playing around. As we go to leave, she pulls in front of the usual exit. It's clear that she's actually trying to film us to incriminate us, and I roll down my window.
Me: "Can you move?"
Her: "Hope you know I called the cops."
Me: "That's nice."
Apparently dopey didn't realize we could just as easily drive over a curb as we could the boulders and ruts. We left and I was properly annoyed. It's obviously not her land, it's not public land, and it effected her life in NO WAY. Why do people feel the need to interfere and get involved with stuff like that?
OtterbatHellcat
03-02-2014, 15:50
I then told him that whether or not he realizes it HIS guns are next.
Um.....don't diss your gunsmith....just sayin'.
hollohas
03-02-2014, 15:51
I thought their policy was to check any firearm that was going to be serviced and CCW did not need to be checked.
This.
KevDen2005
03-02-2014, 17:23
I was once wheeling with my cousin in an undeveloped lot that had been rutted and pitted by the owner for 4x4 use. There are four climbing hills of various grades, two mud pits, and a few deep tracks that get super muddy in spring/fall. It's a well-known spot that the owner has left for people to wheel in, but it has a private property sign posted.
While we were wheeling our rigs, I see this women on the road that leads there parked and holding her cameraphone out to record us. I wave and assume she wants to capture some footage of Jeepers playing around. As we go to leave, she pulls in front of the usual exit. It's clear that she's actually trying to film us to incriminate us, and I roll down my window.
Me: "Can you move?"
Her: "Hope you know I called the cops."
Me: "That's nice."
Apparently dopey didn't realize we could just as easily drive over a curb as we could the boulders and ruts. We left and I was properly annoyed. It's obviously not her land, it's not public land, and it effected her life in NO WAY. Why do people feel the need to interfere and get involved with stuff like that?
It's a control thing. I could understand if you were destroying something or harming someone. I get called for kids on dirtbikes in nearby fields all the time from April to October. The first thing I get told when I call the reporter of this heinous crime is that they know it's against our ordinance. On top of that I usually have to remind them, 9 out of 10 times, that the person riding the dirt bike is not in city limits. However, when I tell them "who cares" when it is our jurisdiction, you can bet that will be a complaint.
ZERO THEORY
03-02-2014, 17:31
It's a control thing. I could understand if you were destroying something or harming someone. I get called for kids on dirtbikes in nearby fields all the time from April to October. The first thing I get told when I call the reporter of this heinous crime is that they know it's against our ordinance. On top of that I usually have to remind them, 9 out of 10 times, that the person riding the dirt bike is not in city limits. However, when I tell them "who cares" when it is our jurisdiction, you can bet that will be a complaint.
Fucking busy-bodies, man. The whole lot of 'em. What did the dork in the OP care if Johny was carrying? It's obviously legal, and he obviously didn't have any ill intention. No one was being at risk by his jacket riding up a bit.
Are these people really that unhappy/in need of control that they just have to be involved in something?
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2014, 19:52
Are these people really that unhappy/in need of control that they just have to be involved in something?
Yes, we call them democrats
kidicarus13
03-02-2014, 19:58
Are these people really that unhappy/in need of control that they just have to be involved in something?
schadenfreude
ZERO THEORY
03-02-2014, 20:02
Yes, we call them democrats
Top lel.
schadenfreude
Seriously.
trlcavscout
03-02-2014, 20:31
Shoulda beat his old ass right in front of everyone and told him to mind his own business. Or at least laughed at him and told him to fuck off. He was probably some grouchy old pickle puffing democrat trolling the man stores looking for a date when you scared him with your gun.
... What did the dork in the OP care if Johny was carrying? It's obviously legal, and he obviously didn't have any ill intention. No one was being at risk by his jacket riding up a bit.
In my opinion, these people who are so offended by the sight of someone carrying a gun, are the same people who think because you're carrying a gun, you're going to start shooting as soon as you get annoyed. It's the same illogical thinking, that tells them that allowing teachers to carry at school, will result in more school shootings.
beast556
03-02-2014, 21:09
Should of told the old guy to fuck off and mind his own business. You dont have to check CCW weapons at sportsmans only guns you are bringing in to be serviced. I asked the manager of the store and was told ccw guns dont need to be checked.
JohnnyEgo
03-02-2014, 21:09
Interestingly enough, there was a gun show right around the corner at the Loveland Outlets this weekend. I wonder if he was either someone who was denied the opportunity to purchase a firearm, or just as probable, a vendor of overpriced guns, jerky, and Nazi memorabilia who was bitter at the lack of sales. The Great Kazoo and I had a brief conversation about this earlier today. While it's certainly possible this guy was an anti looking to provoke a fight, I just can't imagine wasting my time hanging out in the gun section of a store that caters to hunters and sportsmen just to pick a fight. I don't hang out in marijuana dispensaries or head shops looking to make fun of potheads. Better things to do with my time.
Sportsmens may well have been perfectly content to have me unload my firearm and keep it on my person while I shopped the store. It took longer for me to type my original post than it did for the incident to occur. I didn't put much thought into getting clarification from the counter guy or management, or debating the finer points of property rights at the time. My primary thoughts were 'Asshole, toddler, weapon exposed, crowd'. When the counter guy offered me the opportunity to disarm, I chose to leave because carrying an empty firearm seems pointless to me. There are some things I thought I did well, and some things I'd very much like to have done better in retrospect. But I don't plan for there to be a next time, as I've switched to longer coats when I am out with the boy.
You handled it right not knowing the store policy and having a child with you JohnnyEgo. As i said before, from the horses mouth, you can carry a loaded gun open or concealed in sportsman's as long as you do not unholster the firearm in the store. Sure hearing about this waste of breathable air bothers the heck out of me but what really annoys me is that the employee did not know his own stores policy. He could have defused the situation and humiliated the SOB in a short sentence or two yet he sided with the wrong person because of his own ignorance. All in all you you presented yourself well, you dealt and defused the situation well and you are making effort to make sure the situation never happens again. Job well done.
Bailey Guns
03-03-2014, 09:16
You're a better man than I, JohnnyE. You handled it just fine.
kidicarus13
03-03-2014, 09:46
...but what really annoys me is that the employee did not know his own stores policy. He could have defused the situation and humiliated the SOB in a short sentence or two yet he sided with the wrong person because of his own ignorance.
Maybe next time you're at SW you can point out to mgmt the specific employee who is not up to speed on store policy and how the employee's lack of knowledge could have turned into a bad situation for everyone involved.
BlasterBob
03-03-2014, 09:47
This is the kind of stuff that we now are seeing more frequently and I feel that far too many folks are getting overly cautious since all the terrorist stuff. Since the Twin Towers were destroyed, folks are much more easily terrorized and that's exactly what the terrorists want.
Prior to all the terrorism threats, I believe most people in Colorado, when seeing a firearm, would just kinda pass it off and go about their business. We have to remind ourselves that there are a LOT of Fudds out there who have no idea about the legality of open carry and concealed carry.
Just my worthless thoughts.
wctriumph
03-03-2014, 22:48
I was in Sportsman's last weekend with my daughter picking up some hearing and eye protection for her. I bought her a cool camo hoodie that says "Girls with Guns" across the front and I tried on a couple of coats and shirts myself. I had to remove my shirt and there was my holstered pistol for all the world to see. All that happened was the store associate asked about my Tucker Gun Leather holster and belt, he wishes he made enough to buy a custom rig.
It is OK to wear a gun into Sportsman's if you are legally able to carry a gun. If you bring a gun into the store that you are not wearing in a holster you have to check it.
Still, I think leaving and avoiding a scene was the wiser move at the time as you described it. I probably would have been more vocal (without the cussing) to show my daughter that a person needs to stand for what is right and not let the uninformed push us around.
Good rant. You handled it professionally and like a Man. The Fudd was a dick. Ive been on his side of the fence, but in a much worse scenario. Whilst visiting Mrs. Murphy at the Parker Chik-Fil A, a guy came in to take a leak and when he loosened his belt his crappy Jennings .380 fell out of his "holster" and landed 18" away from my feet muzzle facing me it laid like that for about 3 full seconds. Seemed like a weekend. I was not carrying that day. As calmy as possible I hitched up my drawers and pulled out my knife from my pocket and put it in my hand, palm away from his view and exited the stall. He was rather hurriedly washing his hands and nervously staring at me using the mirror. When he turned he apologized profusely and advised me he had a permit to carry. I informed him I could care less about his permit and advised him to invest in a decent holster.
Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
GoldFinger
03-03-2014, 23:40
Coincidentally, I was at the Loveland Sportsman's on Saturday as well; from about 2ish to 3ish. I'm generally not a huge fan of Sportsman's but actually had a nice experience there with a kindly man at the gun counter who obliged my whims of handling a few Browning rifles I had no intention to buy, but was impressed in his attitude and conversation. Having said that, if I had witnessed what you went through I would have absolutely had your back, and probably not handled it as well as you did.
Not that my vote counts for much, but having brought my own children with me on many shopping trips I can understand the need to balance your desire for being a good role model with the desire to choke out a dipshit. Well played by you in my book.
TheBelly
03-04-2014, 07:32
Maybe next time you're at SW you can point out to mgmt the specific employee who is not up to speed on store policy and how the employee's lack of knowledge could have turned into a bad situation for everyone involved.
I don't think there would be a next time for me at that store. They have tattle-tale customers and employees who don't know store policies. Unless there isn't an alternative, I wouldn't be going back.
HoneyBadger
03-04-2014, 10:41
I don't think there would be a next time for me at that store. They have tattle-tale customers and employees who don't know store policies. Unless there isn't an alternative, I wouldn't be going back.
I think the management deserves to know why they are losing your business.
Well handled.
What probably upset the little bitch the most was the fact you were carrying a gun while playing with your young son. He's probably still upset over you passing on your evil gun culture to another generation.
I don't think there would be a next time for me at that store. They have tattle-tale customers and employees who don't know store policies. Unless there isn't an alternative, I wouldn't be going back.
Sorry, but YOU would be the loser in that scenario. All you have to do is say "it's my understanding that policy doesn't apply to holstered defense firearms, only carry-ins. Will you comfirm this with management please? I'll wait."
That way, the clerk learns the real policy, the dick ends up looking like a dick, the crowd is impressed, and you might get a freebie from management for your awesomeness!
I would have told him one of two things depending on my mood.
If in a decent mood: "How about you worry about 1 seat and the ass that goes in it."
If in my normal mood: "Do you have any rubber clothes?" Him: "No, why?" is the usual answer. "Because if your gonna act like a dick you should dress appropriately."
Both have ended similar situations promptly.
People like this piss me off. Fudds are almost as big of a danger to our rights as a liberal lesbian dope smoking schoolteacher.
Just yesterday I had a gent drop off a couple of old shotguns for work. There was a member here also who was picking up a barrel or two and letting me ogle his newest acquisition, a Tavor.
Shotgun asked: "What do you NEED a gun like that for?"
Member and I both looked at him with a bit of displeasure and I told him "It's not about need, but rather our Right. Why does somebody NEED a Corvette, a GEO does the same job as the Corvette?"
Shotgun mumbles something about having driven a GEO and knows why you want a Corvette.
I then told him that whether or not he realizes it HIS guns are next. I explained about NY having a 7 rd limit and NJ trying a 1 round limit. He was oblivious to it.
Gun "Control" isn't about guns. It's about "Control."
Sounds like you had a really bad Saturday, even worse than seeing me in your shop with a Red Wings jacket on. Should have suggested some range therapy on Sunday.
Think the OP handled this a lot better than I would have. My colorful language and tone of voice might have caused a problem. Though I have no kids of my own, so maybe the OP thought better because of that.
Boadie30
03-05-2014, 11:26
I was near the gun counter in Thornton @ SW open carring due to the fact I was trying on a jacket when an employee behind the counter told me I needed to go back up front to check my weapon.. So I went up front and asked to speak with a manager... Explained to the manager what just occurred as i knew the store policy ( they do not care if its open).. He told me I was fine and have a good day and then he went directly back to speak with the employee..
If you expect a general lack of derp at a big box outdoor store, your expectations are unrealistic.
hollohas
03-05-2014, 18:12
... a guy came in to take a leak and when he loosened his belt his crappy Jennings .380 fell out of his "holster"... .
What kind of grown man has to loosen his belt to take a leak?
spqrzilla
03-05-2014, 20:48
What kind of grown man has to loosen his belt to take a leak?
Hey, watch it, you ... you ... you little whippersnapper.
It should have been concealed, the counter dude was helpless and the customer dude a dick - move on and forget about it
Under the circumstances; having to keep track of your kid, shopping, and then getting completely blindsided by this Narcissistic Fudd, you did alright.
There have been a number of comments speculating about this guy and just what his problem is, and, frankly, I don't think any of them really get to the root of this jerk's mental malfunction. It has little to do with his age, or the fact that he's a Fudd who's afraid of any gun that has a plastic stock and can hold more than four rounds.
This exchange had nothing to do with a violation of Sportman's Warehouse policy, concealed carry, or the fact that you got made, and everything to do with Mr. Narcissistic Fudd getting off on manipulating the people around him.
He believes that the world should cater to his every little whim, and that people who do things that he doesn't approve of aren't just wrong, but deserve to be punished for having the temerity to transgress against him.
So, yeah, he's a Narcissistic Fudd who doesn't like concealed carry, or ARs, or whatever, but on top of that, his narcissistic worldview not only encourages him, but quite literally demands him to take action against people who do things he doesn't like, and when he can put people into a situation where he forces them to do what he wants, I can guarantee you he absolutely gets off on it.
Now, there have been other posters here who've said you should call the store and complain about the guy behind the counter, or stop shopping at Sportsman's Warehouse altogether. I don't think that's a good idea. The employee at SW was caught just as flat-footed as you were, and other than maybe a one minute conversation with the employee ensuring them that SW's policy of checking guns doesn't apply to guns carried by CCW permitees, he doesn't need to be screamed at by his boss. Nor does SW need to lose your business. Frankly, the thought of you not shopping there, or this employee getting a reaming from his manager is probably something that Narcissistic Fudd would probably derive a great deal of joy from.
Why do I say that?
Well, here's the underlying strategy of the entire exchange between the three of you. Narcissistic Fudd saw your carry piece, and because he thinks that no one should have power over him (or even the potential to have power over him) he immediately got offended in the most self-righteous way possible. Rather than confronting you directly (something a serious narcissist will rarely do*), he opted to employ a power play and leverage his position of "paying customer" to get an employee of the store (in his mind, just a stupid peon) to do his dirty work for him. The employee, who's job largely entails making people happy (or at least placating them enough to get them to go away) went along with it, likely because he perceived that Narcissistic Fudd would bitch to his manager if he didn't, and he also probably pegged you as someone who's "reasonable" and would comply with a request.
Long story short, Narcissistic Fudd played the two of you against each other to assert his dominance over both of you, mentally got off on the outcome in the same way a junkie gets off on smoking meth, and then beat a hasty escape before either of you could realize what had just happened.
The bottom line is that people like Narcissistic Fudd are endemic to modern American culture, and they excel at these little power plays, and get off on the drama they generate. They also love pursuing things like being elected to office, which should tell you a lot about where this country is headed.
For further reading, I strongly suggest reading the following websites:
http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/narcissists-enjoy-sadness-in-others/
http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/
*This also explains why he wouldn't speak to you or even make eye contact (even while wearing shades!)
wctriumph
03-09-2014, 17:40
^^^^
I will occasionally get or see a customer like this in the shop. I see them interfering with store personnel just trying to do their jobs by interjecting their expertise and knowledge, which is dubious at best, into the sale or discussion with other customers. Some of these people are fairly regular visitors with nothing better to do so they come and hang out and interrupt the flow of business. When I see this happening I will step in and distract them with a question or request to take them out of the situation. I used to think some of them are just trying to be helpful and maybe they are but, some of them can cause problems. These are the "customers from hell". I like your explanation above and it certainly sheds some light on some people's behavioral issues and how better to respond to them.
KevDen2005
03-09-2014, 18:40
^^^^
I will occasionally get or see a customer like this in the shop. I see them interfering with store personnel just trying to do their jobs by interjecting their expertise and knowledge, which is dubious at best, into the sale or discussion with other customers. Some of these people are fairly regular visitors with nothing better to do so they come and hang out and interrupt the flow of business. When I see this happening I will step in and distract them with a question or request to take them out of the situation. I used to think some of them are just trying to be helpful and maybe they are but, some of them can cause problems. These are the "customers from hell". I like your explanation above and it certainly sheds some light on some people's behavioral issues and how better to respond to them.
I have often caught myself wanting to interject when I think someone is getting poor advice or if I feel I am knowledgeable enough to say something. I will admit, it does make me feel good (when I actually am right or when they take my advice) But most of the time I try and remind myself, they don't want my advice. Maybe that's why I get so many complaints at work because I just don't care about the little things that everyone seems to call the police for on a regular basis...and it is obvious in my tone (as in the who gives a crap tone).
KevDen2005
03-09-2014, 18:41
Under the circumstances; having to keep track of your kid, shopping, and then getting completely blindsided by this Narcissistic Fudd, you did alright.
There have been a number of comments speculating about this guy and just what his problem is, and, frankly, I don't think any of them really get to the root of this jerk's mental malfunction. It has little to do with his age, or the fact that he's a Fudd who's afraid of any gun that has a plastic stock and can hold more than four rounds.
This exchange had nothing to do with a violation of Sportman's Warehouse policy, concealed carry, or the fact that you got made, and everything to do with Mr. Narcissistic Fudd getting off on manipulating the people around him.
He believes that the world should cater to his every little whim, and that people who do things that he doesn't approve of aren't just wrong, but deserve to be punished for having the temerity to transgress against him.
So, yeah, he's a Narcissistic Fudd who doesn't like concealed carry, or ARs, or whatever, but on top of that, his narcissistic worldview not only encourages him, but quite literally demands him to take action against people who do things he doesn't like, and when he can put people into a situation where he forces them to do what he wants, I can guarantee you he absolutely gets off on it.
Now, there have been other posters here who've said you should call the store and complain about the guy behind the counter, or stop shopping at Sportsman's Warehouse altogether. I don't think that's a good idea. The employee at SW was caught just as flat-footed as you were, and other than maybe a one minute conversation with the employee ensuring them that SW's policy of checking guns doesn't apply to guns carried by CCW permitees, he doesn't need to be screamed at by his boss. Nor does SW need to lose your business. Frankly, the thought of you not shopping there, or this employee getting a reaming from his manager is probably something that Narcissistic Fudd would probably derive a great deal of joy from.
Why do I say that?
Well, here's the underlying strategy of the entire exchange between the three of you. Narcissistic Fudd saw your carry piece, and because he thinks that no one should have power over him (or even the potential to have power over him) he immediately got offended in the most self-righteous way possible. Rather than confronting you directly (something a serious narcissist will rarely do*), he opted to employ a power play and leverage his position of "paying customer" to get an employee of the store (in his mind, just a stupid peon) to do his dirty work for him. The employee, who's job largely entails making people happy (or at least placating them enough to get them to go away) went along with it, likely because he perceived that Narcissistic Fudd would bitch to his manager if he didn't, and he also probably pegged you as someone who's "reasonable" and would comply with a request.
Long story short, Narcissistic Fudd played the two of you against each other to assert his dominance over both of you, mentally got off on the outcome in the same way a junkie gets off on smoking meth, and then beat a hasty escape before either of you could realize what had just happened.
The bottom line is that people like Narcissistic Fudd are endemic to modern American culture, and they excel at these little power plays, and get off on the drama they generate. They also love pursuing things like being elected to office, which should tell you a lot about where this country is headed.
For further reading, I strongly suggest reading the following websites:
http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/narcissists-enjoy-sadness-in-others/
http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/
*This also explains why he wouldn't speak to you or even make eye contact (even while wearing shades!)
Very in depth, that is a very deep thought into this and something to definitely consider. Thanks for the links, I liked reading them. Good info.
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