View Full Version : Gas water heater how easy is a "do it your self" replacement?
USMC88-93
03-02-2014, 16:16
Inquiring minds want to know.
Super-easy, as long as you are replacing it with another unit of similar size.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 16:23
Quick Connects + Pipe cutter.. all you need :)
Great-Kazoo
03-02-2014, 16:24
Quick Connects + Pipe cutter.. all you need :)
AFTER you turn off the water.
ChunkyMonkey
03-02-2014, 16:25
AFTER you turn off the water.
Meh.. whats the point of paying annual insurance due if you dont use it. [ROFL3]
newracer
03-02-2014, 16:39
AFTER you turn off the water.
And the gas.
It is very easy.
BPTactical
03-02-2014, 16:47
2 water connections, 1 gas connection. Be sure to use pipe dope on the threads of all 3. Don't use thread tape, especially on the gas line- you don't want a shred of it to get loose in the gas system.
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 16:55
Don't forget your damn permit...
Really a permit for something you already have? Why, do you think they are going to look at the computer info on your house when you sell it and say "Wait this house shouldn't have a water heater"? They can go pound sand if they think they need "extra" tax dollars for maintenance and up keep on my home.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-02-2014, 17:34
Increase the vent size to 4" and change the single wall wye to double wall. Replace the gate valve with a quarter turn shut off, both flex connectors, change the gas ball valve to a hand turn 1/4 turn shut off and a flex connector. If it's on wood floor or a finished basement put it in a pan and pipe it to the drain. Oh yeah and make sure it has a t&p pipe no more than 6" from the ground.
Pull a permit. Yah yah I know govt takes too much this and that, it's $40 or less and piece of mind if you have to go head to head with the insurance company.
Easy peasy.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-02-2014, 17:35
Really a permit for something you already have? Why, do you think they are going to look at the computer info on your house when you sell it and say "Wait this house shouldn't have a water heater"? They can go pound sand if they think they need "extra" tax dollars for maintenance and up keep on my home.
See the latter part of my post.
EvilRhino
03-02-2014, 18:25
IF you're going to use the flex lines, use the copper ones. If you look inside the steel-braided rubber ones, it greatly restricts the size. ...unless your water heater is already running 1/2" copper like I've seen before.
KevDen2005
03-02-2014, 18:39
I'm also actually surprised about the permit...wow. I like to read these threads because one day I know it will need to be done and I would rather not pay someone else to do it.
If they don't know...
You don't need no steek'n permit.
Pex.
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 20:15
Really a permit for something you already have? Why, do you think they are going to look at the computer info on your house when you sell it and say "Wait this house shouldn't have a water heater"?
Yes, they do.
A little off-topic, but the LITTER permit to have a litter of puppies or kittens is $231 in Aurora.
Any way the city can get into your personal life and make a buck.
https://www.auroragov.org/LivingHere/PetsLivestockandWildlife/PetLicensesRenewalsPermitsandFees/index.htm
USMC88-93
03-02-2014, 21:02
Water lines are hard piped (no flex) into existing water heater 3/4 inch pipe, vent pipe is 4 inch and I had my chimney re lined last summer. Gas is also hard lined in with gas iron pipe (no flex pipe). House is 1942 built existing water heater is 1989, water heater is in basement on floor in furnace room with no floor drain available.
beast556
03-02-2014, 21:03
Like others have said as long as you are going with one of approx the same size it is almost plug-n-play. The hardest part is getting the old one out especially if it dosent drain all the way.
if the lines are copper
http://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBite-1-2-in-x-3-4-in-Brass-Push-Fit-x-MNPT-Adapter-U116LFA/202270503
x2
http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/202255004
http://www.homedepot.com/p/qv/204626361
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-4-in-x-5-ft-Round-Metal-Duct-Pipe-CP4X60/100196725
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-322-1-57-64-in-x-50-yds-Aluminum-Foil-Tape-3220020500/100030120
A drill and some 1/4 sheet metal screws, some dope or tape (as above only 2 spots on the flex), a pair of channel locks.
<MADDOG>
03-02-2014, 23:48
http://www.ci.wheatridge.co.us/index.aspx?NID=282
3beansalad
03-03-2014, 08:01
Extremely easy, just make sure you get all the parts and sealants in the first trip to the store. Buy extra to avoid a return trip mid project and return any unused items at a later time. Should take about an hour once the old one us drained.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I only have about 50 failed water heaters in the shop and look at about 10 failed water heater lines weekly...
Do not use the flexible copper or stainless braided lines. Pop for the extra bucks and get the corrugated stainless lines. I would buy a new gas line flex connector as well. Read the instructions and use the provided di-electric (or buy new) connections. DO use yellow thread tape on the gas hard pipe connection to the gas valve, DO NOT use thread tape on flare connections.
A permit is required.
I would not call it hard, but it is easy to screw up a connection and end up with a leak a few months, or a few years, later.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-03-2014, 09:15
I forgot to mention that you should consider adding an expansion tank. It will help absorb the pressure fluctuations in the water pressure. Also do NOT put any type of tape(foil, duct etc) on the joints. Not only is it against code but it is not needed. Make sure the lower pipe goes inside of the pipe above it and it will draft properly. Proper pitch for gravity vent is 1/4" per foot of slope, upwards from the appliance to main vent.
I would say that an expansion tank on a domestic water system is a waste of time and money and introduces a failure point with no benefit. On a boiler, yes, but an expansion tank on a water heater in a branched, or even home run system is not needed.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-03-2014, 10:55
I only have about 50 failed water heaters in the shop and look at about 10 failed water heater lines weekly...
Do not use the flexible copper or stainless braided lines. Pop for the extra bucks and get the corrugated stainless lines. I would buy a new gas line flex connector as well. Read the instructions and use the provided di-electric (or buy new) connections. DO use yellow thread tape on the gas hard pipe connection to the gas valve, DO NOT use thread tape on flare connections.
A permit is required.
I would not call it hard, but it is easy to screw up a connection and end up with a leak a few months, or a few years, later.
i respectfully disagree. Copper is the only way to go. In 7 years of being a service tech I haven't seen 10 total. The ones I have seen leaking from the flexible connector were user error because they tried to bend or flex it too much. As far as the expansion tank is concerned we see less leaking t&p valves dripping come spring time due to increased water pressure for watering. I'd rather my expansion tank absorb the pressure than my tank. Next mechanical code book change should have it as a requirement for residential domestic water heaters. Btw we install over 300 water heaters per year.
http://www.rheem.com/docs/FetchDocument.aspx?ID=2abbc233-85f7-4116-af73-710821ace0dd
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-03-2014, 11:09
OP - if you're going to go the big box store route for a tank avoid whirlpool, kenmore, state, or anything sold at lowes or sears. Google any of those names and burner assembly malfunction, or how to clean combustion air screen. I recommend the GE tank from Home Depot, or Rheem/ruud. We install 250+ ruud tanks yearly, less than 5 failures that need to be replace per year from a tank. They're lasting anywhere from 8-13 years depending on use, water conditions etc etc.
While I understand your rationale for you reply related to the expansion tank, it makes no sense. I have run whole house testing to prove that the expansion tanks don't even get exercised in a normal domestic water system. T&P valves leaks because of compression set of the polymer seal and failure to operate them on a regular basis. Nothing to do with expansion. They are a nice profit center for plumbers, but are not beneficial on most whole house domestic water systems. On small condos with combo heat pumps, they are very beneficial due to the smaller size of the system. The failures in those systems have erroneously been transferred into a code requirement pushed by $ and a lack of understanding of the system size vs. expansion tank benefits.
There are some copper lines that are good, but some that are terrible china crap. The ribbons are not evenly sealed on many. There is no "mechanical code book". Commercial gets the IPC and residential gets the IRC in Colorado. Most jurisdictions are avoiding adoption of the 2012 specifically because it has a bunch of politically and financially driven mandates that are of no benefit to the consumer.
The stainless braid hoses with the polymeric tube are largely made out of the US and lack a necessary anti-oxidant and thus the material breaks down and fails. I have done extensive research and testing on these and they are probably in first place for US water leak claims currently.
BTW, I love plumbers, especially those who use brute force and water pump pliers for everything, they help me make a living. :)
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-03-2014, 11:23
So when that water heats up and pressure increases where does the expansion go? You're ok with it on a boiler, and it has no where to go either why not a water heater? Ok mechanical code book was poor choice of words. Residential uses international fuel gas code, and international mechanical code books. Just out of curiosity what cities are you licensed in? Not questioning you or your knowledge just wondering.
No,all boilers should have an expansion tank and they are included in all of my designs and installations. The volume increase due to thermal expansion in a water heater is a few psig. The large assembly of pipes and flex connectors are not rigid, so there is virtually no pressure increase. Pressure spikes due to turning off the tub valve exceed the pressure differential from heating 50 gallons of water from 55F to 130F by about 3 times. Single family dwellings in Colorado use the International Residential Code, not the IFGC nor the IMC which are for commercial and multi-family ONLY!
Granted, most of my work comes about as a result of fixing improper installation and design, but I am licensed in three states.
USMC88-93
03-03-2014, 12:18
MarkCO are you a plumber? Are expansion tanks mounted tank up, tank down, or tank horizontal from their attachment I suspect it really shouldn't matter since it is just an expansion chamber?
No, I am a forensic (mechanical) engineer. About half of my work is on failed plumbing systems and components in terms of installation, materials or design so I have to keep up to date on all aspects of the plumbing trades including code and inspections.
Most expansion tanks are hung down from the attachment, but some are designed to mounted upright. Upright prevents debris settlement on the diaphragm which cause some failures.
Depot is having 10 percent off in stock water heaters right now.
USMC88-93
03-03-2014, 16:53
Depot is having 10 percent off in stock water heaters right now.
Just the GE as they are getting rid of them and stocking Rheem. GE is just a sub brand of Rheem anyway.
Don't forget they do 10% off for Vets. I still have an ID, but my buddy carries a copy of his DD214 and most of the stores will take that.
If you post a picture of your current heater I can make a material and tool list for you so you can avoid multiple trips to the hardware store. I've changed out 100's in my career. Pretty simple if your mechanically inclined and have the right tools. Water heaters can be extremely dangerous to your property and your health so it needs to be done right. And take some of the others advise and pull a permit.
USMC88-93
03-03-2014, 22:34
We can now add to the troubles with contractors list....
Regarding paragraphs and punctuation I'm tired and if I feel like it tomorrow I'll fix it.
I went ahead and had a company install it. I went to Home Depot on Wadsworth in Arvada this morning and made the water heater purchase. Picked out a Rheem 50 gallon platinum series (Anyway moral of that part of the story is I over bought and bought and bought the "best and newest" 50 gallon Rheem that they had in the store). Took it with the Home depot pluming department guy up to will call and paid for the heater. Made arrangement and payment for the install and gave them the will call order number for pick up. Was told 2pm to 4pm for arrival. Get a call at 330pm that they probably wont be there til 630pm. I roll with the punches and have no problem with this as it is my day off and this is the only thing on my to do list.
At some point the actual installers call me with an eta closer to 730 (My impression is they were fishing for me to reschedule due to the time) I told them OK and had the typical "Damn he still wants us to come out silent pause". By the time they arrive I have already drained the water heater and removed both input and output water lines plus the exhaust vent leaving them only the gas to deal with. Now I am content to just greet them (they showed up well before 730 and fairly soon after the eta phone call) and I show them the location of the work in the basement.
Off I go to stay out of their way (I work for Comcast in homes and understand the frustrations of a customer hovering over me with 1000 questions as I work). Some time later I come down and it just doesn't look right so I stare at the work in progress trying to figure out why my spidy senses are tingling. All the sudden the light bulb went off as the color of the water heater was not the dark grey of the Rheem unit that I looked at in the store. Asked the installer "Where is the box" His response with his Romanian accent "is good, Is good, this 50 gallon 12 year warranty" Me - Yes but where is the box? I went out to their truck and sure enough they were installing a GE water heater and not the Rheem I purchased. As it turned out a heater with over a $300 dollar price difference from what I purchased. I told both of the Romanian installers that this was not the item I purchased after they were 3/4 through with the install. (My fault on that for not verifying the product they pulled off the truck). Their fault for not verifying the will call product receipt in the store, and Home depots fault for not keeping an eye on the will call product area as My water heater walked out of the store and they have no idea where it went.
Moral of the story is I ended up with a water heater that I did not choose however I over bought in the first place and the GE 50 gallon 12 year warranty one that I just had them complete the install with should be fine. Went to Home depot and was refunded the difference between the two plus 20% off the GE heater. Tommorrow I need to call install company and see about a partial refund on install for my troubles. As for Home Depot they are missing a $700 water heater that just magically disappeared from their will call area. I should have bit the bullet and installed it myself.
This is the one I bought. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-Platinum-50-gal-Short-12-Year-40-000-BTU-Energy-Star-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-XG50S12DM40U0/204321571?N=5yc1vZc1tz
Lesson learned
Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. Did the installers pull a permit?
Yeah... I am a very new homeowner (<6 months), and I am learning that if I do things myself, several things happen...
1) If i screw it up, I have no one to blame but myself and that is much less stressful.
2) If I screw up, I learn from my mistakes and I have gained valuable knowledge and probably won't do that again.
3) I really like the fact that doing stuff myself gives me a greater understanding of the house I am living in, and how everything works in it.
hghclsswhitetrsh
03-03-2014, 22:45
Bummer dude. One of us would've helped ya along.
newracer
03-03-2014, 23:16
I wonder if the installer switched out the unit hoping you wouldn't notice.
USMC88-93
03-03-2014, 23:23
I wonder if the installer switched out the unit hoping you wouldn't notice.
Manager wants the times they called me with eta's in order to narrow down the amount of video to look at to see who picked up at will call.
rockhound
03-11-2014, 08:38
we pick up a 1200 water heater, we stop at another home depot on the way to your house and return your 1200 water and pick up a 900 water heater that we deliver to you, got paid for the install and pocketed an extra 300 bucks
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