SBR vs AOW

[baglock1]

Google isn't providing me help today and honestly, I can't wrap my head around the actual statutes to make sense of exceptions and requirements.

I recently picked up a GSG-5PK and am considering converting it to an NFA item. I just want to run my potential plans by you guys to ensure my thinking is correct.

Adding a fixed stock to this pistol creates an SBR but will adding a folding or collapsing stock create an AOW (since it can potentially be less than 26")?

Regardless of the stock type, if I also add a VFG, this creates an AOW, correct?

And while I'm thinking about it, once registered as an NFA item, it will ALWAYS be an NFA item, correct? That is, if I were to pull the stock/VFG off, it still couldn't be sold as a regular firearm, correct?

Thanks.

[brutal]

I'm curious as well, so don't take my statements as fact, but here's my take.

Doesn't the "less than 26" automatically qualify it as SBR?

If it's an SBR, it's no longer a pistol, so adding a VFG shouldn't change its class.

Once stamped, forever stamped.

[paddywagon]

Putting the stock on it would make it an sbr not a aow. If you were to do a foregrip only them that would be a aow. You can put the vfg on the sbr and that is fine. The aow are things like pen guns, pistols with vertical foregrips etc. Sbr's are just that. Short barreled rifles. It costs $200 for a tax stamp to create either on an individual basis but the aow can be transfered for $5 vs $200 at a later time. My own opinion is that if you are going to do something with that pistol the sbr would be the way to go. A lot more options.
As far as "once nfa always nfa" that's not necessarily true. They can be removed from the nfa registry and sold again as a title 1 weapon. From what I understand it requires written notice to nfa to make it happen. I hope this helps.

[baglock1]

Thanks for the info guys. I was under the impression that a rifle with <16" of barrel equated to an SBR (obviously) but if it was also less than 26" overall, it was an AOW. Hence my question about the folding stock. So to clarify, is a rifle with an 18" barrel an AOW if it is <26" in overall length?

With regards to the VFG, is it fair to state that once the pistol is converted to an SBR (legally, though a form 1), the VFG wouldn't even matter since it is technically going on a rifle (albeit, one with a short barrel)?

As far as the "once NFA, always NFA" question, I think found the answer to that one on the ATF FAQ. It specifically refers to converting an SBR back to a rifle instead of back to a pistol, but I suspect that it is the same.

Q: Does the installation of a barrel over 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA? If so, is this considered a permanent change?

Installation of a barrel greater than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS) will remove the firearm from the purview of the NFA provided the registrant does not maintain control over the parts necessary to reconfigure the firearm as a SBR or SBS.

Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?

There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.

Admittedly, I doubt I'd go that route since it'd be a complete waste of $200 but it's still good to know.

[Great-Kazoo]

Putting the stock on it would make it an sbr not a aow. If you were to do a foregrip only them that would be a aow. You can put the vfg on the sbr and that is fine. The aow are things like pen guns, pistols with vertical foregrips etc. Sbr's are just that. Short barreled rifles. It costs $200 for a tax stamp to create either on an individual basis but the aow can be transfered for $5 vs $200 at a later time. My own opinion is that if you are going to do something with that pistol the sbr would be the way to go. A lot more options.
As far as "once nfa always nfa" that's not necessarily true. They can be removed from the nfa registry and sold again as a title 1 weapon. From what I understand it requires written notice to nfa to make it happen. I hope this helps.

You cannot make an AOW, The only AOW's i have seen were Factory units. You can't take an over the counter 12ga and turn it to an AOW. You can make / Form 1 a SBR, or SBS, which btw can have either a rifle or pistol style stock. Where as an AOW (shot gun)is PG only.

[J]

You can indeed make an AOW, but it gets the full $200 tax. Transferring an AOW gets the cheaper $5 tax.

To answer the OP:

If you put a stock on it, it will be an SBR. At that point (approval) you can put on a VFG with no problem. It is still an SBR. Your stock and fold or be fixed, it is still an SBR.

If you DO not put a stock on it, you can register it as an AOW. When approved you can install the VFG, but NOT a stock.

Either route is $200.00.

[Great-Kazoo]

You can indeed make an AOW, but it gets the full $200 tax. Transferring an AOW gets the cheaper $5 tax.

To answer the OP:

If you put a stock on it, it will be an SBR. At that point (approval) you can put on a VFG with no problem. It is still an SBR. Your stock and fold or be fixed, it is still an SBR.

If you DO not put a stock on it, you can register it as an AOW. When approved you can install the VFG, but NOT a stock.

Either route is $200.00.

Thanks for the clarification. My mind was on the $5 (Factory) vs. $200 fee.

[Hound]

You cannot make an AOW, The only AOW's i have seen were Factory units. You can't take an over the counter 12ga and turn it to an AOW. You can make / Form 1 a SBR, or SBS, which btw can have either a rifle or pistol style stock. Where as an AOW (shot gun)is PG only.

Actually not fully true. Those Sig (and other) units that slip over a pistol (Glock and Berretta being most common) making your pistol into a carbine. Those are an NFA item you technically 'make' that have to be registered as AOW.

PS: When I was writting this I had not seen your reply. I was not trying to kick a dead horse here.

[Great-Kazoo]

Actually not fully true. Those Sig (and other) units that slip over a pistol (Glock and Berretta being most common) making your pistol into a carbine. Those are an NFA item you technically 'make' that have to be registered as AOW.

PS: When I was writting this I had not seen your reply. I was not trying to kick a dead horse here.

[beatdeadhorse] sure ;)