A step back towards private property rights

[Mick-Boy]

Like most of these things, it often seems like we're going two steps in the wrong direction for every step in the right direction. But at least it's a step in the right direction.



http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ap_news/politics/article_d8593071-4b8c-5507-a092-40638052a039.html

Posted: Monday, March 10, 2014 9:22 am | Updated: 12:10 pm, Mon Mar 10, 2014.

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court has sided with a Wyoming property owner in a dispute over a bicycle trail that follows the route of an abandoned railroad. The decision could force the government to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to compensate landowners.

The justices ruled 8-1 Monday that property owner Marvin Brandt remains the owner of a 200-foot-wide trail that crosses his 83-acre parcel in southern Wyoming's Medicine Bow National Forest. The trail once was the path of a railroad and is among thousands of miles of abandoned railroads that have been converted to recreational trails.

Chief Justice John Roberts said the government was wrong to assert that it owns the trail.

The government says it faces compensation claims involving 10,000 properties in 30 states, possibly topping $100 million.

[BPTactical]

Good. With the land grab the Feds are doing it is high time they got checked into the boards.

[Mtn.man]

I don't see a problem. I know a guy that purchased MILES of old rr right of ways.
How would you like to pick up all the trash the cyclists leave on your place.
Let them bicycles find some other place to ride.

[BPTactical]

Let them bicycles find some other place to ride.

HOV lanes on I25 sounds good.

[Mtn.man]

HOV lanes on I25 sounds good.


During rush hour when everyone is stressed.

[TFOGGER]

Hmm...the .gov may have to pay hundreds of millions...and exactly where does that money come from again? Oh yeah...

[NFATrustGuy]

.The government says it faces compensation claims involving 10,000 properties in 30 states, possibly topping $100 million. .

Then shut down the fucking trails and give the land back to its rightful owners! The government shouldn't be playing Santa Claus with my money. If we as a country want to spend $100 million on trails, then fine... So long as we've had a chance to vote on it and we understand that stuff like this doesn't come for free. Want open space? Fine. Vote on it as a community and then compensate the affected landowners fairly. You don't just go in and take something to give it to someone else then break your arm patting yourself on the back at how altruistic and 'green' you are by providing 'free' trails.

More Govenment bullshit.

[jslo]

Double edged sword. Government gets slapped (good). We pay the bill (bad).

[ChunkyMonkey]

Then shut down the fucking trails and give the land back to its rightful owners! The government shouldn't be playing Santa Claus with my money. If we as a country want to spend $100 million on trails, then fine... So long as we've had a chance to vote on it and we understand that stuff like this doesn't come for free. Want open space? Fine. Vote on it as a community and then compensate the affected landowners fairly. You don't just go in and take something to give it to someone else then break your arm patting yourself on the back at how altruistic and 'green' you are by providing 'free' trails.

More Govenment bullshit.

+1, toll bike way.. wahooo!

[USMC_5-Echo]

Why doesn't the land owners just build a fence blocking access if they own the land?

[Gman]

What's the bag limit on 2-wheeled antelope?

[TFOGGER]

Why doesn't the land owners just build a fence blocking access if they own the land?

Because the railroad rights of way are granted an easement in the title deed of the land, regardless if the are abandoned or not. The issue is whether or not the .gov can claim those easements that were originally granted to the railroads, or the land reverts to the landowners. Ideally, the court ruling would revert the abandoned rights of way to the landowners, or require the .gov to pay fair value via a bond referendum(rather than existing tax resources).

[BPTactical]

What's the bag limit on 2-wheeled antelope?

[LOL]

[BuffCyclist]

What the HECK is a 200 foot wide trail?! [Dunno] Isn't that at least as wide as a 4 lane highway?

How many freaking bikers/walkers/hikers use that trail?

[sniper7]

When are we going to start registering bicycles in Colorado? They use the roads, they are supposed to follow the same laws, they have the right of way, you have CRS laws pertaining to them, they even get their own lane in a lot of areas. The cement/asphalt was paid with my tax dollars from gas tax and registration fees. I want them to pay and get plates on their bikes.

[speedysst]

Well, a lot of those bicyclists also own cars so they also pay into the road taxes. Pedestrians also have CRS pertaining to them, they have the right of way and they use the roadway and paths to walk. Shall we also register them? The cement and asphalt were paid for by everyone's taxes along with GOCO funding sometimes. Im pretty sure the wear and tear on the roadways are not the result of bicycles and pedestrians, and Im not sure why another person's mode of transportation gets some people so bent out of shape.
When are we going to start registering bicycles in Colorado? They use the roads, they are supposed to follow the same laws, they have the right of way, you have CRS laws pertaining to them, they even get their own lane in a lot of areas. The cement/asphalt was paid with my tax dollars from gas tax and registration fees. I want them to pay and get plates on their bikes.

[merl]

What the HECK is a 200 foot wide trail?! [Dunno] Isn't that at least as wide as a 4 lane highway?

How many freaking bikers/walkers/hikers use that trail?

That is the size of the rail easement so they are gonna take claim foot of it. No way the actual trail is that wide.

As for how many use it, Probably not very many given the population density around there.

[sniper7]

Well, a lot of those bicyclists also own cars so they also pay into the road taxes. Pedestrians also have CRS pertaining to them, they have the right of way and they use the roadway and paths to walk. Shall we also register them? The cement and asphalt were paid for by everyone's taxes along with GOCO funding sometimes. Im pretty sure the wear and tear on the roadways are not the result of bicycles and pedestrians, and Im not sure why another person's mode of transportation gets some people so bent out of shape.


Well ill I own a motorcycle and an atv, both of which have better safety features than a bicycle yet one is street legal while another is not. I own a few vehicles as well. Are you saying I should only have to pay once and I can utilize all my assets on the roadways my taxes and registrations pay for?

[merl]

Well ill I own a motorcycle and an atv, both of which have better safety features than a bicycle yet one is street legal while another is not. I own a few vehicles as well. Are you saying I should only have to pay once and I can utilize all my assets on the roadways my taxes and registrations pay for?

We get it, you hate bicycles, they hate you too. They cycle of being dicks to each other has gone on long enough that both sides hate each other completely.

What exactly would bicycle registration achieve, other than as a punitive move? Based on mass (many registrations are based on vehicle mass since that is what damages roads) the fee would miniscule until you start tacking on the administrative costs.

Edit: damn it now I'm sucked into another one of these.

[sniper7]

We get it, you hate bicycles, they hate you too. They cycle of being dicks to each other has gone on long enough that both sides hate each other completely.

What exactly would bicycle registration achieve, other than as a punitive move? Based on mass (many registrations are based on vehicle mass since that is what damages roads) the fee would miniscule until you start tacking on the administrative costs.

Edit: damn it now I'm sucked into another one of these.

I like bicycles, I just hate the spandex wearing queer baits that think they own a highway or roadway and cause serious hazards to themselves and motorists who subsidize their ability to ride on nice pavement.
Registration, along with new CRS additions would achieve safer roadways, equality among those who utilize our road system since it is essentially based on a user fee system, requirements for bicyclists to carry a registration as well as a drivers license or a bicycle license if they choose not to have a drivers license. This will make it much easier for LEO to issue citations for not obeying CRS.
As to registrations, most are based on vehicle age, in addition to fees, taxes, administrative costs, etc. This move would give bicyclists a right to the road, as well as laws they would have to abide by which would include a bicyclist test to make sure they are aware of such laws. This will of course include a trip to the infamous DMV to take a test to prove knowledge of the laws and physical ability to ride a bicycle on roadways that their registration would pay for. There would as well be a DMV fee, licensing fee, and renewal fee as well.

hopefully you also know it is currently in the CRS to honk behind a bicyclist while on a 2 lane road to alert the bicyclist that you are going to be passing them and you intend to give them the proper amount of space.


ETA: forgot to add, bicycles would be required to have a VIN number, which will help against theft, riding stolen bicycles, as well as verifying registration during a routine traffic stop. Of course each bicycle will be required to have a VIN, and each VIN bearing bicycle will be required to be registered in order to be ridden on roadways.

[Mtn.man]

And the spandex wearing queer bates luv trees and hate guns.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=9459127

[mcjhr]

I like bicycles, I just hate the spandex wearing queer baits that think they own a highway or roadway and cause serious hazards to themselves and motorists who subsidize their ability to ride on nice pavement.
Registration, along with new CRS additions would achieve safer roadways, equality among those who utilize our road system since it is essentially based on a user fee system, requirements for bicyclists to carry a registration as well as a drivers license or a bicycle license if they choose not to have a drivers license. This will make it much easier for LEO to issue citations for not obeying CRS.
As to registrations, most are based on vehicle age, in addition to fees, taxes, administrative costs, etc. This move would give bicyclists a right to the road, as well as laws they would have to abide by which would include a bicyclist test to make sure they are aware of such laws. This will of course include a trip to the infamous DMV to take a test to prove knowledge of the laws and physical ability to ride a bicycle on roadways that their registration would pay for. There would as well be a DMV fee, licensing fee, and renewal fee as well.

hopefully you also know it is currently in the CRS to honk behind a bicyclist while on a 2 lane road to alert the bicyclist that you are going to be passing them and you intend to give them the proper amount of space.


ETA: forgot to add, bicycles would be required to have a VIN number, which will help against theft, riding stolen bicycles, as well as verifying registration during a routine traffic stop. Of course each bicycle will be required to have a VIN, and each VIN bearing bicycle will be required to be registered in order to be ridden on roadways.

I give this a big +1.

I rode a bicycle as main transportation for nearly 7 years. I had it registered(which only meant in case of theft it had an ID) every year. It was a small fee and I have no clue where the money went but it felt good to contribute. It did not mean I felt I had the right of way and all cars need to look out for me. That ends bad(seen it).

A dmv test/trip would be a bit much(think family who just rides around the greenbelt on occasion). $20or $40 a year, get a sticker and you can renew online or by phone.

Like I said I like the idea but I don't see it getting any traction. Guberment can hardly handle what they deal with now.

Btw: you would never catch me in spandex outfits even on 20mi joyrides. Bdu pants and a wife beater! 'Merica!

[Eric P]

All sales tax from bikes and biking accessories should go to the highway trust fund, just like the sales tax for vehicle and auto accessories.

[Irving]

All sales tax from bikes and biking accessories should go to the highway trust fund, just like the sales tax for vehicle and auto accessories.

What about mountain bikes? What about skate boards? What about roller blades?

Let's tax and legislate everything possible. Fun permits anyone? We should have to swipe a badge to go outside.

[sniper7]

What about mountain bikes? What about skate boards? What about roller blades?

Let's tax and legislate everything possible. Fun permits anyone? We should have to swipe a badge to go outside.

Atvs and other off road vehicles which are not allowed to be on public roads can be registered with a small fee to colorado parks (oh sticker, snowmobile, dirt bike, boat). Mountain bikes can have this same exemption but will be subject to ticketing should they be ridden on public roads. ATVs and other off road vehicles that meet safety standards can be titled and driven on the roads, but will not require titles or registration if they only used off road (current regulations).
skateboards are not classified yet, but if they are used on roadways such as is seen on downhill riding in the mountains etc, they will be subject to registration as well. Exemptions will be made for them to utilize sidewalks and crosswalks such as walking and running pedestrians use. Roller blades are not an external accessory and are classified as rolling footwear. They will be treated the same as pedestrians and will be limited to sidewalks and crosswalks. Blading on public roadways will be subject to jaywalking citations.

this is just making it fair. My hunting dollars pay an extremely major portion of parks and recs activities thanks to that fuck head hickenlooper who combined the parks and rec and the Division of Wildlife. Parks was always in the red, DOW was always in the black and now my hunting dollars subsidize the parks and recs that were underfunded and overstaffed. Now the bicyclists don't get a free ride any more on the back of my tax dollars and on my roads that my registration pays for. I don't give a shit if they own a car or not, you play, you pay for each vehicle.

i would prefer a user based system and a complete overhaul, but that won't be happening so this will make a little equality on the roads both from a biker and driver standpoint, as well as making bicyclists responsible for knowing the laws (one of which will require minimum speeds on roadways, essentially keeping them off the highways and only on roads where speeds will be more in line with motor vehicle speeds), keeping up with registration, and subjecting them to known laws that they can be ticketed for by LEO.

I would also be overhauling the registration system while I was at it. No more bullshit paying E-470 fees in your registration is a hot item on my list. Total fucking bullshit.

and the licensing system would be on my list. No more of this lame ass drivers training that is done by folks who don't know how to drive. It would go toward a professional driving course which would unfortunately have some substantial costs associated with it. My drivers license test and motorcycle endorsement were a total joke. I think all of us can attest to that. The end result would be much more professional drivers, resulting in less traffic accidents and lowered death and injury rates.

[Irving]

My comment was in reference to the suggestion that ALL bicycle sales should go toward roads, not just road bike sales.

Orwell would be proud of the rest of your post though. :D

[newracer]

Atvs and other off road vehicles which are not allowed to be on public roads can be registered with a small fee to colorado parks (oh sticker, snowmobile, dirt bike, boat). Mountain bikes can have this same exemption but will be subject to ticketing should they be ridden on public roads. ATVs and other off road vehicles that meet safety standards can be titled and driven on the roads, but will not require titles or registration if they only used off road (current regulations).
skateboards are not classified yet, but if they are used on roadways such as is seen on downhill riding in the mountains etc, they will be subject to registration as well. Exemptions will be made for them to utilize sidewalks and crosswalks such as walking and running pedestrians use. Roller blades are not an external accessory and are classified as rolling footwear. They will be treated the same as pedestrians and will be limited to sidewalks and crosswalks. Blading on public roadways will be subject to jaywalking citations.

this is just making it fair. My hunting dollars pay an extremely major portion of parks and recs activities thanks to that fuck head hickenlooper who combined the parks and rec and the Division of Wildlife. Parks was always in the red, DOW was always in the black and now my hunting dollars subsidize the parks and recs that were underfunded and overstaffed. Now the bicyclists don't get a free ride any more on the back of my tax dollars and on my roads that my registration pays for. I don't give a shit if they own a car or not, you play, you pay for each vehicle.

i would prefer a user based system and a complete overhaul, but that won't be happening so this will make a little equality on the roads both from a biker and driver standpoint, as well as making bicyclists responsible for knowing the laws (one of which will require minimum speeds on roadways, essentially keeping them off the highways and only on roads where speeds will be more in line with motor vehicle speeds), keeping up with registration, and subjecting them to known laws that they can be ticketed for by LEO.

I would also be overhauling the registration system while I was at it. No more bullshit paying E-470 fees in your registration is a hot item on my list. Total fucking bullshit.

and the licensing system would be on my list. No more of this lame ass drivers training that is done by folks who don't know how to drive. It would go toward a professional driving course which would unfortunately have some substantial costs associated with it. My drivers license test and motorcycle endorsement were a total joke. I think all of us can attest to that. The end result would be much more professional drivers, resulting in less traffic accidents and lowered death and injury rates.

I would like to see a source of what you claim in bold. It was reported that both the Parks and Rec Dept and the DOW did not want to merge as they each thought the other would get their money. I always thought each were in the black every year.

I am not in favor of expanding government to register bicycles.

There are some of these properties in Colorado, saw a snip of it on the news the other night.