View Full Version : Sanitation: One of the most important preparedness discussions.
Three Sub-Topics addressing the biggest contamination and causes/defenses of diseases in a SHTF or off grid situation:
- Dishware:
I have a system of four of these. Prerinse, Soapy/Brush, Rinse, and Bleach Sanitize (Pool shock is my long term storage bleach).
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- Clothing:
3 of these buckets. Wash, Rinse, Rinse. ( I only store dish soap because I have read it can be a substitute for clothes washing. I want to store the least amount of soap types as possible)
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- Ditching the #1 and #2
Luggable loo with bottom cut out in case I have to dig a hole to put it over, however I have a stockpile of 10 gallon bags and kitty litter/pine shavings.
What are your ideas to deal with a grid-down situation?
Great-Kazoo
03-17-2014, 21:01
Clothing, why waste water washing clothes, 2 pr pants, 3-4 undergarments 1-2 shirts, plus over garments for foul / inclement weather. ? Body excrement, unless i'm hunkered down, side of the road small hole, dump, recover hole, remove one self from area.
Clothing, why waste water washing clothes, 2 pr pants, 3-4 undergarments 1-2 shirts, plus over garments for foul / inclement weather. ? Body excrement, unless i'm hunkered down, side of the road small hole, dump, recover hole, remove one self from area.
True, I would say clothing would only need to be washed once in a bleu moon? After they become so stiff with caked on dirt. (one thing that shows like the walking dead fail to illustrate. Everyone is sporting pretty clean-looking clothes.) the soapy solution could be utilized indefinately, tis why I have lids for the buckets.
#1 and #2... in my SHTF situation in a semi-suburbia part of Aurora, I won't be able to go to the side of the road and do my business without attracting attention is why I thought... next to the 6 foot fence behind a tarp over a ditch... or inside (with 10 gallon bags, etc etc).
Great-Kazoo
03-17-2014, 22:15
You only need 1 set of good utensils. I don't see bleach in an equation for cleaning till it's real serious. Do you have a way to measure the bleach/water ratio to avoid 1- not strong enough 2- too strong to point of toxic? If you want to use a multi tiered system. Use the bleach / final rinse as the next wash cycles pre-soak.
Get your stuff like you're going camping, on foot. How much do you/ can you, take with you.
As i mentioned , hunkered down, i'd use an area on the apt building roof for waste. keeping smell and other things associated with it above you, AWAY from water system.
If you have to go outside you should have an extra pair of eyes. You never know who has seen you and casing the place. That dump that can't wait, could be your last.
Regarding a bottomless LL. Once you do that, you've lost a way to carry all your toiletries, and 6+ rolls of TP.
One thing to keep in mind. Not every scenario will or could work across the board. Urban survival will be different than suburban, less populated areas.
HoneyBadger
03-17-2014, 22:33
I have a few gallons of hand sanitizer, along with bleach, alcohol, and lots of TP, garbage bags, and other disposables. Costco is your friend. :)
Great-Kazoo
03-18-2014, 07:42
I have a few gallons of hand sanitizer, along with bleach, alcohol, and lots of TP, garbage bags, and other disposables. Costco is your friend. :)
Hand sanitizer is a placebo, it creates a false sense of security, thinking you're disinfecting your hands. You can carry more alcohol swap packets in a smaller space. It's just a personal choice. Do what ever one feels most comfortable with.
USMC_5-Echo
03-18-2014, 08:33
I have a few gallons of hand sanitizer, along with bleach, alcohol, and lots of TP, garbage bags, and other disposables. Costco is your friend. :)
Thats why Costco is my bugout location! Why take it with you when it's all in one location :D
No but seriously though, Costco is a good place to get the industrial size everything for your prepper needs. The Food Saver is a good way to vacuum seal all of the "extras" too
I guess it may not be as important as I thought, I just figured that preparing for solutions to these issues would need to be thought out when SHTF. I don't plan on leaving the house right away. Probably making the house look like it has been ransacked already, because leaving would be harder.
Plus I have a SHTF "to-do list" that needs accomplishing befor I leave for any place other than the house..
Wow Jim, you sure are Mr Negative in this thread. LOL!
Sanitation is indeed an issue that should be thought through. Burrying one's waste is great if you're bugging out, but if one is bugging in (at least for a while) what do people do, go crap in the neighbors yard? Might make them a bit tense. And while krusty clothes might sound like fun (?) and hand sanitizer is less than ideal, it's better than nothing, and clean clothes are a big morale booster.
Point being, better to put some thought into this ahead of time, and I think rbeau has some good ideas. Would love to hear what others have planned too.
ChunkyMonkey
03-18-2014, 09:54
Short term or long term? For Long Term SHTF, OP got it.
I store alcohol, pool shock, baking soda, and water. Those pile should cover many things including sanitary need.
Hand sanitizer is a placebo, it creates a false sense of security, thinking you're disinfecting your hands. You can carry more alcohol swap packets in a smaller space. It's just a personal choice. Do what ever one feels most comfortable with.
I thought those hand sanitizer gels were just gelled alcohol. Why would a packet make a difference othere than including a scrub cloth?
why waste water washing clothes
Psychological/mental well-being.
After hurricane Jeanne in '04, my neighborhood was without power for over two weeks and this was only three weeks after hurricane Frances had hit just two miles north of there. The amount of clean-up necessary was substantial as the 4th largest hurricane to hit FL happened in an area not hit by anything in over 100 years (a lot of trees that had never seen serious wind before, now all down). Getting downed tree limbs out of canals, roofing/housing materials and other debris moved out of roads/driveways was hot/humid/filthy work. One thing that really lifted people's spirits was being able to bath and then putting on fresh socks/shirts/shorts tomorrow morning when you wake up. By the end, most of us tossed all of the clothes from the prior month in the trash - mangrove mud never comes out. However, washing some clothes every few days to keep a few sets of clean things to wear was one way of keeping the motivation level high enough to go fire up the chainsaw and keep doing that kind of thing, one 95* day after another....after another.
Clean clothes aren't 'necessary', but they do make a tangible difference in a person's mindset during an event.
I also heard about a study showing that non-alcohol based anti-bacterial soaps and hand sanitizers are even less effective than alcohol-based ones.
Clean clothes are an integral part of hygiene. If youre living in filth you have a higher chance of contracting something.
As far as dish soap for washing clothes. Try it. Dish soap foams. If you want to make your own out of shelf stable ingredients theres plenty of recipes online.
Bassicaly shaved bar soap. Borax. And washing soda. Also cheaper than tide by about ten fold
ChunkyMonkey
03-18-2014, 11:26
Psychological/mental well-being.
After hurricane Jeanne in '04, my neighborhood was without power for over two weeks and this was only three weeks after hurricane Frances had hit just two miles north of there. The amount of clean-up necessary was substantial as the 4th largest hurricane to hit FL happened in an area not hit by anything in over 100 years (a lot of trees that had never seen serious wind before, now all down). Getting downed tree limbs out of canals, roofing/housing materials and other debris moved out of roads/driveways was hot/humid/filthy work. One thing that really lifted people's spirits was being able to bath and then putting on fresh socks/shirts/shorts tomorrow morning when you wake up. By the end, most of us tossed all of the clothes from the prior month in the trash - mangrove mud never comes out. However, washing some clothes every few days to keep a few sets of clean things to wear was one way of keeping the motivation level high enough to go fire up the chainsaw and keep doing that kind of thing, one 95* day after another....after another.
Clean clothes aren't 'necessary', but they do make a tangible difference in a person's mindset during an event.
At 95 degree and very high humidity.. I'd be butt naked!!!!
Most of those studies are flawed. Oak86 has chewed me out several times for quoting studies that are terribly managed.
Alcohol kills germs. Washing the germs off is far better but this assumes a clean water source.
Also uv light kills germs. Hanging a smelly shirt on a clothes line for a few days will kill the germs. The crusty stuff will still be there which can agrivate the skin and cause rashes leading to infection if un adressed.
Clean clothes are an integral part of hygiene. If youre living in filth you have a higher chance of contracting something.
This is the way my brain was thinking, then I took a mental note every time that I touched my clothes with my hands. Then the thought of how many times do I touch my face with my hands on a given day. I figure It couldn't help to keep clothes somewhat clean, when I can get to some extra water.
Leaving dirt and stuff on clothes... while the UV light may kill germs wouldn't the germs more readily survive on a soiled set of clothes? kinda how turbidity affects the time at which UV light rendering water safe to drink?
Clothing uv exposure is better than just cycling them.
I.e. its better than nothing.
Turbidity renders uv water treatments useless or at very least questionably. Turbitity and chemical treatment requires increased contact time
ChunkyMonkey
03-18-2014, 12:10
This is the way my brain was thinking, then I took a mental note every time that I touched my clothes with my hands. Then the thought of how many times do I touch my face with my hands on a given day. I figure It couldn't help to keep clothes somewhat clean, when I can get to some extra water.
Leaving dirt and stuff on clothes... while the UV light may kill germs wouldn't the germs more readily survive on a soiled set of clothes? kinda how turbidity affects the time at which UV light rendering water safe to drink?
On the subject, look into third world country solution.
Wear cotton then hang it overnight iin a breezy area - smells fresh in the morning.
If you are to wash with detergent, make sure you have a cold water detergent. Most detergent in the US selves requires HOT/WARM water.
If you don't have detergent, soak, scrub, sun dry and coal iron! This method is known to kill most pathogen.
It's hard to find clothes wringer in the US, but get one if you run into one. $50-100 and when the power out, you'll find it real useful. IF you dont have one, mop wringer works too.
etc etc etc
I had a list of these kind of useful tips somewhere. Will post them when I find it.
I keep a 6oz bottle of Lemon Joy in my travel bag: you can wash anything in that stuff, even in saltwater (hair/body/clothes/dishes/-anything). It might not be the 'perfect product' for some purposes but it's the best jack-of-all-trades soap I've used and if I only have space for one soap, it's going to be Lemon Joy. As far as washing clothes, soap up while wearing them in the shower, even if it's an outdoor shower devised from hanging a bag of water from a tree limb.
Great-Kazoo
03-18-2014, 15:55
I thought those hand sanitizer gels were just gelled alcohol. Why would a packet make a difference othere than including a scrub cloth?
Most of those studies are flawed. Oak86 has chewed me out several times for quoting studies that are terribly managed.
Alcohol kills germs. Washing the germs off is far better but this assumes a clean water source.
Also uv light kills germs. Hanging a smelly shirt on a clothes line for a few days will kill the germs. The crusty stuff will still be there which can agrivate the skin and cause rashes leading to infection if un adressed.
Proper hand washing trumps other less effective cleansing . However if it's what you have, use it. IMO the gel, unless used as you would soap and water, only moves the crap from one place to another.
Using an alcohol wipe gives you something which the dirt / germs adhere to and are removed from the surface.
Great-Kazoo
03-18-2014, 16:01
Wow Jim, you sure are Mr Negative in this thread. LOL!
Sanitation is indeed an issue that should be thought through. Burrying one's waste is great if you're bugging out, but if one is bugging in (at least for a while) what do people do, go crap in the neighbors yard? Might make them a bit tense. And while krusty clothes might sound like fun (?) and hand sanitizer is less than ideal, it's better than nothing, and clean clothes are a big morale booster.
Point being, better to put some thought into this ahead of time, and I think rbeau has some good ideas. Would love to hear what others have planned too.
It's Mr. Negativity Tuesday. While his ideas are good . I see too much use of water for cleaning utensils and clothes that could be channeled to more productive things, like hydration and personal hygiene.
My opposition to hand sanitizer / gel stems from seeing too much dependency on it, within the medical field. It has become the "go to" means to cleanse hands, prior to seeing the next patient. Dr's and some nurses drop a dollop on their hands, do a quick / light once over and move on. They don't allow contact time for it to be effective, or IMO even conscious of what they're doing.
Next time one of you visit a medical office watch them. It's almost as bad as observing unskilled food service workers.
So I am bringing this thread back from the dead. For washing clothes I am going the route of making my own laundry detergent. The three ingredients can be kept dry and separate until you need to make more.
http://www.mrshappyhomemaker.com/homemade-liquid-laundry-detergent-plus-a-free-printable-label/
It is what Wulf202 mentioned earlier in the thread.
If this isn't good for SHTF scenario, at least I will be saving money for more SHTF stuff.
"Washing soda" is also "soda ash" or in the pool world "ph up" you can get it at any pool supply shop in quantity.
We tried this but I don't think it cleaned our clothes as well as we liked so we never did it again. My laundry bucket is now my brass bucket. :D Let us know how you like it. I've still got some fels naptha around as well. I'd also like to try the dry version.
I make our own laundry soap. It's dry, not liquid, and it lives in a 5-gallon bucket. Our HE machine gets 1 Tablespoon per load. Clothes come out clean-smelling and it works well!
Guys, if you're putting away laundry soap, get an extra bottle of Woolite for ladies delicates.
I've seen all sorts of recipes online. Instead of "1 cup of this" and "1 1/2 cup of that", here's what I do:
1 box of Borax
1 Box washing soda
3 lbs baking soda (1/2 of those big bags you can buy at Sam's club)
1 tub of generic Oxyclean cleaner (not absolutely necessary)
4 bars grated Fels Naptha
Dump everything into a 5 gallon bucket. Mix the ingredients by stirring, or putting the lid firmly on the container, turn it on it's side and rock it back and forth until it's mixed.
This stuff lasts, and goes a LONG way.
I also use white vinegar as a rinsing agent. White vinegar is terrific for sanitizing.
Ladies will also require a way of washing clothing- especially when they first reach the age of menarche. Not to be gross, but there is a learning curve involved, and clothing will need to be washed.
I'll be trying the oxy clean addition. Thanks
After I do the Liquid version I think we will try the dry version. That seems a lot less messy and fussy. The only concern I had was with dry detergent, does it dissolve well even with using cold water cycles?
After I do the Liquid version I think we will try the dry version. That seems a lot less messy and fussy. The only concern I had was with dry detergent, does it dissolve well even with using cold water cycles?
I not only use the cold cycle for most of my cleaning, but I utilize the "quick wash" cycle, that cleans things n 25 minutes. I still wash my whites in hot water, still use bleach for that cycle with the dry detergent, and I've not had any issue with detergent not dissolving. I think the trick is to use no more than a tablespoonful per full load, and use vinegar for the rinse cycle.
An FYI, with likely TMI: we have an older cat that was frightened by one of our newer cats- he peed in his kitty cuddler. I took the cuddler and threw it into the washer by itself, put in a tablespoonful of the detergent and vinegar in the rinse cup, and I added a splash of vinegar directly onto the cuddler in the washer. I washed it in warm water and extra high spin cycle on the "casual" setting....and there was no odor or pee in the cuddler at the end of the cycle. I checked with a black light, just to be sure.
I hope it works out well for you. I make detergent about twice a year- and I wash all of our linens, blankets, curtains and such at least every three months to keep the cat hair and dander down.
A few years ago I made 10 gallons of liquid laundry soap with my friend's recipe, much like the ones mentioned above. It was easy, worked well, lasted forever and very inexpensive. When that ran out I tried her dry/powder recipe, same three ingredients, and haven't made the liquid since. Ridiculously easy, takes 10 minutes to prepare, requires very little storage space. Cleans really well, no perfume/dyes, no nonsense. The two boxes and about 4 bars costs maybe $16 and lasts me at least an entire year (1 load/week, occasionally 2).
1 cup Borax
1 cup Super Washing Soda
3/4 bar of shredded Fels Naptha (use a cheese grater)
Mix these three ingredients and use 1/8 cup per load. Really, a little goes a long way.
If you want to add a scent she says you can shred an eighth or quarter bar of natural/handmade soap and add to the mix. Anything/everything can be washed in this but she suggests not using it on cloth diapers (not sure why but you could look that up if you use them.)
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