View Full Version : What's in NM's water?
<MADDOG>
03-24-2014, 22:53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nl9TEOPY8k
usmctarzan
03-24-2014, 23:01
Saw this earlier... A little ass backwards if you ask me. Should have used non lethal first. Any word on victim? Heard he could have been homeless or a spotter for the cartel.
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<MADDOG>
03-24-2014, 23:03
Saw this earlier... A little ass backwards if you ask me. Should have used non lethal first. Any word on victim? Heard he could have been homeless or a spotter for the cartel.
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I believe he is pushing up tulips...
usmctarzan
03-24-2014, 23:08
I believe he is pushing up tulips...
Haha yeah I could see that. Doesn't look like he was camping though... And if he was asked to leave, why didn't he? Plus dual wielding knives is kind of silly when you're going up against a fire team with a K-9.
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Aloha_Shooter
03-24-2014, 23:28
I believe he is pushing up tulips...
The cops yelled "bean bag, bean bag", I saw no sign of skin penetration after the shots, and the cops were pretty careful about the knife in his hand (to the point of instructing someone to step on his hand) so I don't think the camper is deceased. I'm curious why they're so fearful of someone camping out in the scrub ... most cities would rather have him out there than camping on top of subway grates in the city like in Philadelphia.
<MADDOG>
03-24-2014, 23:35
http://www.abqjournal.com/372376/abqnewsseeker/apd-releases-info-about-fatal-officer-involved-shooting.html
clublights
03-24-2014, 23:50
Saw this earlier... A little ass backwards if you ask me. Should have used non lethal first. Any word on victim? Heard he could have been homeless or a spotter for the cartel.
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Spotter for a cartel int he foothills of a large City ??? LOL...
that would be like a cartel spotter in the flatirons above boulder... if you have made it that far a spotter is not going to do you any good.
ABQ is like 250 miles from the border.. no mules are walking that far.
The PD CLAIMS to have used non lethal first.............
This is an example of why I live in Colorado now .. ABQ is wack.
usmctarzan
03-24-2014, 23:50
http://www.abqjournal.com/372376/abqnewsseeker/apd-releases-info-about-fatal-officer-involved-shooting.html
Well it looks like they know just about as much as we know... They should probably get a new medical examiner too.
usmctarzan
03-24-2014, 23:51
Spotter for a cartel int he foothills of a large City ??? LOL...
that would be like a cartel spotter in the flatirons above boulder... if you have made it that far a spotter is not going to do you any good.
ABQ is like 250 miles from the border.. no mules are walking that far.
The PD CLAIMS to have used non lethal first.............
This is an example of why I live in Colorado now .. ABQ is wack.
Hey, just saying what others have said lol.
The guy died and it looks like murder to me... I know that's gonna piss off you loyalists.
Guy starts to turn away when it appears that the cop up the hill opens up on him which then seems to prompt the "camera wearing" cop to open up on him.
Any other human being that would shoot someone like that would be in jail for murder. End of story.
clublights
03-25-2014, 00:26
The guy died and it looks like murder to me... I know that's gonna piss off you loyalists.
Guy starts to turn away when it appears that the cop up the hill opens up on him which then seems to prompt the "camera wearing" cop to open up on him.
Any other human being that would shoot someone like that would be in jail for murder. End of story.
Pretty much .
He had the knives in his hands so he was a threat and that is how they will get off...
Yes having knives in hand ready to slice and dice IS A threat... but at the point they opened fire he was a strategic threat not a tactical threat.
By Strategic Threat I mean one that takes longer term ( not in the next millisecond) planing and preparation for .
By Tactical Threat I mean one that requires immediate action.
The guy died and it looks like murder to me... I know that's gonna piss off you loyalists.
Guy starts to turn away when it appears that the cop up the hill opens up on him which then seems to prompt the "camera wearing" cop to open up on him.
Any other human being that would shoot someone like that would be in jail for murder. End of story.
+1
I saw this a few days ago but did not bring it here in fear of cop bashing but because it ended up here i will add my $0.02.
This might be in the other link but i have not read it. The facts i know are they spent 3 hours trying to get this homeless man to comply with their orders. The homeless man is mentally ill and has spent time in jail and hospitals i.e. mental wards many times in the past. As you can see they did use non lethal force first in quick succession, they used the flash bang, a bean bag load and a taser all at the same time then let the dog go in. The homeless guy is dead in the end.
My observations. The K9 unit is what they use to justify the killing of the mentally ill homeless guy (so they say). To me it look like the K9 handler is a compete moron that can not deal with the situation. The guy was just flash banged, bean bagged, tased and had a dog let loose on him. Mentally ill or not what do you expect anyone to do after that? The homeless guy turns away from the situation and gets shot at multiple times and then "camera officer" starts firing another volley of shots because of a gang mentality. They fire bean bags again, "negative effect", what ever that means and then let the dog move in, again.
With a militarized police force like this nothing good can happen. All i see is a Barney Fife that has removed his bullet from his breast pocket and replaced it with a full magazine in a rifle without any fear. This looks like it could have been filmed in Iraq or Afghanistan but sadly it was filmed on our own soil. What i see is wrong and i think bryjcom explains perfectly well.
Obviously all the facts aren't on the video. But I can tell that K9 sucks, he didn't even go in after the guy unless maybe the Handler was keeping him back?
i don't see where lethal force was necessary, but that's just my opinion.
trlcavscout
03-25-2014, 06:28
Obviously the man hadn't signed up for ACA yet so the shooting was totally justified.
Scanker19
03-25-2014, 08:11
To answer the the question in the title. Lead lots of lead. And the answer the question in the title, LEAD lots of lead
I'm curious why they're so fearful of someone camping out in the scrub ... most cities would rather have him out there than camping on top of subway grates in the city like in Philadelphia.
This area is at the foothills of the mountains and there are a lot of hiking and biking trails there. So that translates to rich people hiking area.
giving this was an APD operation I'm surprised that I'm surprised someone was shot and killed. Why do half of those guys look like SF in their "civilian clothes?"
The Norseman
03-25-2014, 08:14
What's in NM's water? Shit floats down stream so it's got to be Colorado waste....
ronaldrwl
03-25-2014, 08:24
shot in the back
unload beanbags
Release dog
Seems like the wrong order
palepainter
03-25-2014, 08:34
I'm getting sick of these video game playing cops just blasting away when they certainly could handle situations differently. Too eager to blast away. Its too easy to just have on of the other cops yell out.....Drop the knife, walking cane, slurpee. That is all they need for the video to provide support for their actions.
Reading the article, some things stand out that are true, based on the video:
Yes, they told the man repeatedly to drop the knife...after they had flash banged him, shot him, and he'd been taken down by the canine. He was also hit by at least 3 beanbags after he was already on the ground and unresponsive. Then they let the dog chew on him some more.
Colorado Osprey
03-25-2014, 09:35
shot in the back
When I was a LEO this was a re-occurring nightmare. You will get crucified for shooting someone in the back. There is no justifiable reason. They can NOT be a threat! I don't care that the subject had knives in both hands!
The officer that shot the subject in the back is gonna go to jail. Full auto no less-- he fired 4 rounds! Other officer(s) shot at least 4 rounds as well, maybe a shotgun (larger boom)
My nightmare was chasing someone and they were shooting over their shoulder at me when I returned fire. Always woke up realizing I was gonna get crucified.
Most Use of Force continuum allow Officers to escalate the force a level above the subject allowing deadly force; but nothing allows use of deadly force when the subject is attempting to flee and is no longer an immediate threat.
It seemed the only Officer than knew what he was doing was the one with the Non-Lethal shotguns. Announced and shot below the waist.
speedysst
03-25-2014, 11:12
Anyone hear the guy say "I have the right to kill you now?" I hate to point that little tidbit out lest I be called a "loyalist."
Intent, opportunity and capability is what we were told at every shift briefing. I didn't see the opportunity unless he was gonna throw the knives.
Colorado Osprey's post was pretty on the mark too, that's a tough defense. Scary that these guys have to live with that.
Very civil discussion so far, thx.
Haha yeah I could see that. Doesn't look like he was camping though... And if he was asked to leave, why didn't he? Plus dual wielding knives is kind of silly when you're going up against a fire team with a K-9.
Come on up this summer. I will show you homeless campsites the look just like that. Although his was cleaner than most.
Shot in the back while trying to walk away. Shots fired over partners shoulders. Numerous less lethal options. Video of unjustified shooting. This isn't going to end well for the officer. Not as bad as it ended for the homeless man though.
thvigil11
03-25-2014, 11:50
The officer involved seem to have a sketchy past. APD has been under investigation for the last year or two for their use of force. Personally I try to stay away from ABQ as much as possible.
http://krqe.com/2014/03/19/cop-involved-in-sunday-shooting-had-rocky-past-performance/
BREATHER
03-25-2014, 11:57
I am an ex-LEO from years ago and got out before it got real stupid... I defend cops actions daily where I work. I am, out of neccesity, working with a bunch of motard liberals... "how come it takes so many cops to take one guy down" my response "there is safety in numbers, so the perp or the cops don't get hurt",,, Then here is a ring of cops with AR's for one retard. My argument goes out the window. Damn shame for MY COUNTRY. Asses in office and asses in the field.....
To answer the the question in the title. Lead lots of lead.
Seems like the lead is in the air.
The less-lethal guy had 2 less-lethal shotgun. Possibly 2 Beanbags, or 1 beanbag, and 1 xrep.
I wonder if they will rethink that helmet cam/public record thing. It's pretty damning footage and I'm sure the officers involved feel like crap about the whole thing. The guy was no Mother Teresa (by a long shot) and they knew it, they were well equipped, pumped up and came in WAY too heavy for the situation. It could have ended with no one getting killed.
Just some thoughts, I'm not sure what I would have done in their positions. I know Andy and Barn would have handled it different in Mayberry but, this is a border town and a big one. I think I'd be a little edgy. Tough story.
I thought that type of situation is what tasers are for.
Why do half of those guys look like SF in their "civilian clothes?"[/QUOTE]
Have to agree with this statement...
ZERO THEORY
03-25-2014, 17:44
I hope every one of those pathetic excuses for humans and ANYONE who supports their actions rot in the most miserable, antagonizing way possible. Fuck 'em, period.
That's state-sanctioned murder and should really put into perspective how seriously your rights and life are being taken by .gov at this point.
ABQ is hardly a border town. It's ~230 miles to Juarez. Regardless, this situation sucks for everyone involved.
Going to segue completely away from the shoot itself and inject on a comment about mental health in general. Can't help but feel it's almost the inevitable and almost preferable thing as long as the nation refuses to go back to long term hospitalization of severe mental patients. There are those that these days do benefit from meds if they can stay on them and be functional. On the other hand, I frequently see at work the yo-yo patients who are not only permanently completely pschizo/disabled, but are also dangerous. They get kept in the ER for 1-3 days until they find placement, then are out of West Pines or whatever other low level psych ward they are put in in a week or less typically.
Now that I've been doing it for 4 years I've had the opportunity to see the patients that since go on to be in the news or I hear from other channels as hurting someone because they were allowed to continue on their path. My first long term GF I ended up having to let go because she got worse to be completely unable to operate and fortunately got locked up long term as a ward of the state. So believe me it's a subject I know well and I'm certainly empathetic to the tragedy that is mental illness.
That being said, there's some of these individuals that getting put down is really the best thing for everyone including them. (Not saying all mentally ill, or even guy in video)
Call it monstrous, but I prefer it to deranged people out hurting innocents. Same way most of us gladly would end a molester.
Great-Kazoo
03-25-2014, 18:45
ABQ is hardly a border town. It's ~230 miles to Juarez. Regardless, this situation sucks for everyone involved.
^Thank you^ . Geography, learn it.
That being said, there's some of these individuals that getting put down is really the best thing for everyone including them. (Not saying all mentally ill, or even guy in video)
whose pencil do we entrust to draw the line?
Well, preferably not overly trigger happy folk. Not saying it's something that is regulated, it's just the natural consequence of these sick people being loose.
Gotta love po po with a full auto. Thanks for sharing, now I won't sleep well. Is this gonna just keep escalating or can we stop it. This is a far cry keeping the peace.
^Thank you^ . Geography, learn it.
My bad, I was thinking about Commerce City.
palepainter
03-26-2014, 09:25
It appears to be a habit down there. http://krqe.com/2014/03/26/following-protest-apd-officers-shoot-another-man/?mn
clodhopper
03-26-2014, 09:30
It appears to be a habit down there. http://krqe.com/2014/03/26/following-protest-apd-officers-shoot-another-man/?mn
The dude news anchor at the beginning... pretty sure he is an elf or a Vulcan.
Ya.... Not moving to Albuquerque any time soon. Wow.
DavieD55
05-08-2014, 19:26
Update:
ALBUQUERQUE (KRQE) – Angry protesters took over an Albuquerque City Council meeting Monday night, calling for immediate change at APD, the ousting of both Albuquerque’s Police Chief and Mayor and more.The meeting got out of control quickly about an hour after it started. Things got so chaotic and unruly that Chief Gorden Eden left and city councilors canceled the meeting.
Read more
http://krqe.com/2014/05/05/protesters-take-over-abq-city-council-meeting/
http://youtu.be/2gM_vn99n6k
But did anyone talk out of turn or go over their 2 minute time limit?
But did anyone talk out of turn or go over their 2 minute time limit?
They just adjourned the meeting, abandoned the room and it turned into an Occupy Albuquerque demonstration. I guess that makes some people feel good, but what was accomplished?
jerrymrc
05-08-2014, 20:32
They just adjourned the meeting, abandoned the room and it turned into an Occupy Albuquerque demonstration. I guess that makes some people feel good, but what was accomplished?
The thing that may have been accomplished is that any person in that room that was elected may be looking for a new job soon. Kind of like when elected officials here in Colorado never thought they could be recalled......... "Maybe in the state there are enough people but never in the district. They will never be recalled" [Flower]
BushMasterBoy
05-08-2014, 20:33
In Colorado even confused bears get the tranquilizer dart, maybe policing needs new tools and techniques.
The thing that may have been accomplished is that any person in that room that was elected may be looking for a new job soon. Kind of like when elected officials here in Colorado never thought they could be recalled......... "Maybe in the state there are enough people but never in the district. They will never be recalled" [Flower]
The voting booth is a great place to make our voices heard. It is disappointing when I so often find myself on the losing side of an election, but I hope it never becomes an excuse for me to join an Occupy demonstration.
kidicarus13
05-08-2014, 21:10
I thought in the school council thread it was encouraged to speak randomly and be disruptive. Meetings are no place for rules!
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