came to a realization about how far we have fallen in my lifetime

[rockhound]

While working out last night i flipped on the Tv in the basement. Apolla 13 was playing in the back ground, my oldest daughter came in to watch, first time she had seen it. As we discussed the events that were playing out and the fact that is was based on real events that happened as i was very young, I came to the realization about how far we have fallen.

I was born three months before Neil Armstrong and the crew of Apollo 11 landed on the moon. We were the most powerful nation on the planet and secured our position as such that very day. We were untouchable. The dominant military force, the most powerful economy, the largest producers of steel and coal and vehicles. Our capability of waging war and defending ourselves, defending our allies was unquestioned. Our president was admired. Our way of life was admired and sought after by most of the worlds population.

We had jobs, and produced our own goods, no one was on welfare and were embarrassed to be so. Food stamps had their place, but were not widespread. Mom's raised their kids and fathers stuck around to lead and be the mentor for son's that would gow up to be the same honest, hard working men. Having a blue collar was not frowned upon and the sweat of a hard earned day's wages was something to be proud of.

I remember seeing the The Freedom Train come to town and we all celebrated the fact that we had built the greatest nation on earth and were proud to be a part of it.

I just turned 45 years old this week and I have come to the realization that within my lifetime this country has gone from one of shear triumph and being the envy of the world to one that is a laughing stock, riddled with debt, that is hell bent on self destruction.

I am confused and honestly dumbfounded as to how this can possibly happen so fast. I do not see any end to our stupidity and am ashamed of what has transpired and what is to come. Ashamed of what we have created for my children. That we have guaranteed that for the first time in over 200 years our children will not better off than we were.

Sorry for the downer thread, but as nearly half a century has flown by me I have started to reflect a bit.

I am hoping that somewhere there are kids that will figure this out and put down their video games and make something tangible and real that can make a difference.

[Robb]

Sure wish I was able to refute what you're saying, but I can't.

[kidicarus13]

I am hoping that somewhere there are kids that will figure this out and put down their video games and make something tangible and real that can make a difference.

Ahhh, optimism. I'll just say this, momentum is a hard thing to slow down let alone change its direction 180 degrees. Hey kids... good luck, I wish you the best.

[mtnrider]

I was having these same reflections a few weeks ago. I wonder what kind of future my young children are going to have in this country ...and it scares me.

[Zundfolge]

http://www.takepart.com/sites/default/files/styles/tp_gallery_slide/public/reagan.jpg

[Great-Kazoo]

I am hoping that somewhere there are kids that will figure this out and put down their video games and make something tangible and real that can make a difference.

As a parent, it's you're responsibility to have them put down their video games, cell phones etc. Without guidance it's not their fault.

Until parent[s] are willing to be parents and not their children's BFF it will never happen. While there is a fine line between discipline and abuse, putting the fear of [insert deity] in to them, so they open their eyes & minds, is something a lot of parents don't have the backbone to do.

[SAnd]

Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon. I used to be encouraged and inspired by that saying. Now I just get bummed out by it.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I am confused and honestly dumbfounded as to how this can possibly happen so fast.

Because we gave up on so many things.
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/04/01/the-7-reasons-america-became-a-great-power-n1817340/page/full


"In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle: There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, ‘I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.’ To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: ‘If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.’" — G.K. Chesterton

We hear a great deal about how America needs to be "changed" by people who don't seem to know America's history, understand our country's uniqueness, or appreciate how good we've had it as a people. Until you understand what made America a great nation to begin with, you have no business suggesting any changes to the policies, tradition, and culture that made us so uniquely successful. It's not an accident that America became a great power. It's because of these seven reasons.


1) Judeo-Christian Ethics: When people call America a "Christian nation," they're referring to the Judeo-Christian morals that shaped our country. Our strong sense of right and wrong kept corruption to a minimum, our Protestant work ethic caused Americans to be productive, and our belief in rights given by God, not government shaped our national philosophy. Respect for Christian values is a part of the fabric of our country that goes right back to our founding. Even if many people wouldn't realize it until it is too late, an America where Christianity isn't an important part of everyday life would no longer be America in any meaningful sense.

2) A Powerful Military: There's a lot to be said for "soft power," but it pales in comparison to raw military might. The United States was not always a great military power, but once the Civil War was over, we started to assert ourselves. Since WWII, we've had the finest military on Planet Earth. That one factor does more to insure our freedom and the safety of our allies than every other factor combined. As Reagan said, "History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap." At least for now, no nation could be so foolish as to believe that a potential fight with the United States would be cheap.

3) Western Culture: If the entire population of Venezuela, Iran, or South Africa were here in the United States and all of us were gone, this country would quickly turn into a pesthole, just like all of those nations because they're culturally inferior to us. On the other hand, Western culture has produced ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, Britain, the United States and a host of lesser nations that are still more successful than 90% of the planet. The emphasis in Western culture on individualism, innovation, Christianity, capitalism, science, technology, freedom and individual rights has given us an enormous advantage that we are sadly eroding with our foolish embrace of multi-culturalism.

4) Geography: We can't underestimate the importance of being a large, resource-rich nation that's isolated from powerful foes. Had Britain been considerably closer, it's possible that we may have been unable to break away and take control of our own destiny. If we had powerful adversaries to our North and South, we may have had great difficulties when our nation was young and we were just finding our strength. If we had been closer to Europe, our homeland might have been decimated during WWI and WWII. If God had given us first choice of places to found a nation, this is where we would have ended up.

5) Industrial Capacity: Economically, America managed to take full advantage of the Industrial Revolution and most people still don't realize how important our ability to churn out material was to winning WWII. Just to give you one of many examples,

"By 1944 America built 96,300 planes, more planes than were possessed by the Axis combined and this does not include British and Soviet production. The Germans built 40,000 war planes in 1944, but the arrival of P51 Mustangs in the skies over Germany resulted in the destruction of the Luftwaffe. And American production was 75 percent combat aircraft.....This was the peak of production, an incredible 11 planes an hour were rolling out of American aircraft plants."

We lack this capacity today and make up for our inability to mass produce weaponry by creating high quality war machines. This is a potentially dangerous strategy because if a large chunk of our superior weaponry were ever destroyed somehow, it would take us an inordinately long time to rebuild it.

6) A Merit-Based Society: America's lack of an aristocracy, tribes, and castes helped allow the cream to rise to the top in our society. Although we certainly weren't perfect in this regard as any slave or woman throughout most of our history could tell you, we were well ahead of much of the rest of the world. The fact that we're still regarded by the rest of the world as a "land of opportunity" is one of our greatest strengths, although our antiquated immigration system does little to take advantage of this fact. The more we penalize success as a society, the more stratified, stagnant and sterile we'll become as a country.

7) A Constitution That Limited Centralized Government: Nothing could be more fundamentally American than a deep and abiding distrust of government. That's why the Constitution was specifically designed to keep our own government from oppressing the people. This contributed mightily to our success because the bigger and more powerful the government becomes, the smaller, weaker and poorer the people become. Our Founding Fathers understood this and were fanatical about small, decentralized government. The further we move from that principle, the more economic stagnation, frightening levels of debt, and potentially dangerous tyranny we'll see from our own government.

[Zundfolge]

I am confused and honestly dumbfounded as to how this can possibly happen so fast.

I know I reference Anonymous Conservative a lot lately, but he's really on the ball when it comes to at least part of a Unified Field Theory of liberals and liberalism, but he really covers why we're in the state we're in in his most recent post. http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/political-ideology-epigenetics-and-the-amygdala/


One of the things which I have seen first hand is the slowly corrupting nature of resource excess and peace. This doesn’t happen all at once to a culture, but rather creates a slow, perceptible slide from generation to generation. When I began martial arts training, I rolled with a club that was full of vets fresh from the Korean war. These guys were hard men, in a way you don’t really see today in civil society.
...
Those Korean vets I knew came from parents who, (based on a cursory examination of the traits their kids carried), probably sliced a bloody swath during WWII through a place where the threat of their own violent end at the hands of a brutal enemy was ever present. Next thing you know, I’m sparring with guys who would have put the fear of God into a bar full of PCP-laden Hells Angels.


Take away the threat stimulus of war and shortage, and decades later I’m laughing, as I fight, at the ridiculous comedic antics of a twenty-something goofball opponent, who I couldn’t imagine ever killing anyone. For decades I marveled at that phenomenon as I watched it slowly play out in front of me, long before I ever knew why it was happening. It wasn’t genetic – it was too fast, and there weren’t enough people dying, or enough selective breeding. It wasn’t an endogenous bio-chemical desensitization, it was too gradual, over generations and decades. Epigenetics is the only mechanism I am aware of which fit what I observed, and I have no doubt, that is what it was. And the mechanism I saw there is the same one I see playing out in our politics as the decades pass, and each new generation seems to lack something the previous generation had. Today, as I look out on the nation, I see a rapidly growing cadre of imbeciles, totally blind to the economic destruction and national and cultural failure that each election brings us closer to. This is why those imbeciles are out there, and why they are growing in number.



The simple truth is that peace & plenty erode the character of a people until they are no longer deserving of their peace & plenty so they either wake the hell up and straighten their shit out, or more likely someone comes along, sees their weakness and takes everything from them.


I really hate to say this in company of people with children (especially young children) and I really am not trying to poke any of you in the eye, but drive by any grade school at recess and look at those little children engaged in non-competitive, gender neutral & politically correct play. Unless we wake the hell up and take the culture (not just the government) back within the next decade, I would bet you that there is a greater than 70% chance that at some point in their lives they will have to take up arms against either an invading army of Russians or Chinese or our own government (or hell, all 3).

And I'd put their chances of survival at less than 50% and success at less than 20%.

[Sawin]

.....

I am confused and honestly dumbfounded as to how this can possibly happen so fast. I do not see any end to our stupidity and am ashamed of what has transpired and what is to come. Ashamed of what we have created for my children. That we have guaranteed that for the first time in over 200 years our children will not better off than we were.

Sorry for the downer thread, but as nearly half a century has flown by me I have started to reflect a bit.

I am hoping that somewhere there are kids that will figure this out and put down their video games and make something tangible and real that can make a difference.

Rockhound, I am 30 years old and have my first child in the oven... I have had the same thoughts as you for the past 6-7 years at increasingly depressing levels. That being said, I have chosen to give the big picture up to God and do my part in my own circle of influence, as best as I can. For a while, I thought I might not even want kids because how bad I imagined the world to become at this rate. I pray that folks with the proper mindset and abilities will make a difference in this generation or the next. Life will go on, regardless of how "bad" it looks respective of our childhoods...All I know now is that I fully intend to teach my child(ren) about the 7 values that made the United States of America great, from Jeffrey Lebowski's article.

[BlasterBob]

I have to really agree with each post in this thread. I can assure you guys that I have seen many many changes as I will turn 78 later this year. The two things that disturb me the most is the behavior and lack of respect so many of our youngsters now have and are subject to. With our current "shit storm" in D.C. we had better get someone with some backbone to "run" this country back to at least close to where it used to be, when we were still proud of it. Since there was a mention of video games, I have been tempted many times to post an ad to sell off a nice scientific microscope which could possibly get some youngster off the damn video game and interested in the scientific field. Of course the kid would probably tell me to take my damn microscope and stick it.[blaster]

[Zundfolge]

With our current "shit storm" in D.C. we had better get someone with some backbone to "run" this country...

Don't worry ... as our culture becomes more and more morally weak we'll see a strong man rise to power. [panic]

[Ranger353]

I think a lot of us 50-somethings are thinking about the future and remembering the past. It is very sobering to realize that we are not the most superior nation on the planet any longer and our demise is of our own doing. When I was growing up in the 70's I remember all the WWII and Korean war vets in my neighborhood. They all had respect for each other, kept they houses and lawns clean and manicured, didn't cuss in front of us kids (unless they were mad at something), and stood up and placed their hats over their hearts whenever the national anthem was played or the flag was going by in a parade.

It was an honor to be invited to the American Legion building for a bar-b-que because if you weren't a Veteran you couldn't go in unless you were invited. Men wore coats and ties to church Sunday mornings and played cards and drank beer Sunday afternoons. It was something special to be an American. God was not a dirty word back then, and sex was a private thing between a husband and his wife.

What happened? Young people today dishonor our Vets, don't listen to their elders, laugh at authority, and cuss in public because they don't care who is around them. I think we are only a few years away before we implode, or the new Russian empire nukes us. Maybe it will be the Chinese that beat them to the punch. Either way, we are on the ropes and getting a good beating from the world that we helped to defend from the Nazi's and Japan just over 65 years ago.

Maybe my grandkids can figure out how to put the genie back in the bottle. I just worry that I won't be there to help them, guide them, and mentor them.

[Colorado_Outback]

The internet is to blame. With out it we would still be socializing in person, shopping locally and reading books for information/knowledge.

Instead its all a couple clicks away from where your sitting right now.

[TFOGGER]

I'm reminded of this:

*NSFW language*


http://youtu.be/1zqOYBabXmA

As I approach 50 (kicking and screaming), I mourn the loss of American pride and spirit. Patriots are vilified as "nationalists". We send our youth to fight pointless wars in countries that don't want our help, are strategically questionable, and will revert to the same chaotic primitive tribalistic shitholes they were before, a week after we leave. We allow our government to make overreaching power grabs in the name of national security (DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, NDAA2009/2010/2011) that don't make us one whit safer, but infringe on all of our natural rights. I just hope the fall comes either early enough that I can fight, or late enough that I'm already gone.

[rbeau30]

As a parent, it's you're responsibility to have them put down their video games, cell phones etc. Without guidance it's not their fault.

Until parent[s] are willing to be parents and not their children's BFF it will never happen. While there is a fine line between discipline and abuse, putting the fear of [insert deity] in to them, so they open their eyes & minds, is something a lot of parents don't have the backbone to do.

I believe in this comment wholeheartedly! I thought I was the only person who thought this. I constantly look at how parents treat their children like their friends. Commercials show it (IE: One commercial where the mom is tiptoeing into the kid's messy room to find a sock for the kid sitting just outside of his room. WHAT???? are you kidding?) TV shows show it (If my children talked to me or another adult like the children on these "ABC Family network" or other newish tv shows or movies did I would have some very unhappy children, because I would end that immediately)..

ugh it just irritates the piss out of me. And it is not going to stop easily or soon. Parents nowadays are so content with taking the path of least resistance by never having a moment of disappointment in childrens' lives and just appeasing them and doing all the work for them.

[Mtn.man]

My kids were limited to Pac man and mario, and only for a small time frame. They grew up on our small farm so they didn't really have time for the electronic tehy BS.
My grandkids aren't doing to bad because we all hunt, fish, ski, shoot, hike, 4 wheel play golf yadda yadda.

It is all in the way they are raised.

I agree with The GK. It starts with parents.

[Colorado_Outback]

Ive got to imagine that some people born around 1900 felt the same way in the 60's.

[Great-Kazoo]

Ive got to imagine that some people born around 1900 felt the same way in the 60's.

Oh yes they did. However our parents were allowed to discipline us WITHOUT repercussion from over sensitive, everyone is equal teachers, faculty and nosy flag burning neighbors. In our neighborhood, you'd better hope the guy down the block felt a swift kick in your pants was enough a warning, he didn't feel the need to talk to your parents.

Others have mentioned it, COMMUNICATION. The ability to talk to someone, not Text, pm, e-mail etc. But an actual conversation. My wife still has letter we exchanged when i was overseas. Flash forward 30 years, Our daughter a few letters from overseas, mostly e-mails. It's nice to read something from 1/2 way around the world almost instantaneously. But it pales to a nicely written letter. Oh how i miss outhouses and reading by candlelight [LOL]

[BlasterBob]

Oh how i miss outhouses and reading by candlelight [LOL]

with the usual Sears catalog for handy but harsh wiping. Ouch!!

[rbeau30]

with the usual Sears catalog for handy but harsh wiping. Ouch!!

You gotta work the pages into softness while you are doing the dooty.

[Dave]

with the usual Sears catalog for handy but harsh wiping. Ouch!!

We actually had toilets and toilet paper in my time, Sears catalogs were used for something else in the bathroom....

[BlasterBob]

The wife and I just mentioned last night about how in 1966, we'd place a little leather harness on our two year old daughter and attach her to a clothes line, in the shade, so she could do all the running and playing that she wanted but wouldn't be able to run away. Also used the same little harness and leash to contain the little twerp while in the various retail stores so she wouldn't wander away or get "taken". Parents do that now, they probably be arrested or at least get a ton of phone calls about how terrible, inconsiderate, mean we are.

[BlasterBob]

We actually had toilets and toilet paper in my time, Sears catalogs were used for something else in the bathroom....
Perhaps for "admiring" some of the female underwear models?[LOL]

[hatidua]

our parents were allowed to discipline us WITHOUT repercussion

I think that is responsible for a whole lot more than most would like to acknowledge. A "time out" doesn't do squat for most kids. There's a number of little in-vitro blessings (out of control demons) in my neighborhood that aren't going to have the slightest notion of how to cope with the first time they are told they aren't the greatest thing on planet earth.

[hatidua]

The wife and I just mentioned last night about how in 1966, we'd place a little leather harness on our two year old daughter and attach her to a clothes line, in the shade, so she could do all the running and playing that she wanted but wouldn't be able to run away. Also used the same little harness and leash to contain the little twerp while in the various retail stores so she wouldn't wander away or get "taken".

My parents had harnesses/leashes for my sister and I so we were tethered when we traveled (back/forth overseas). I mentioned it in passing to a neighbor a week or two ago and they were horrified. Their reaction was hilarious!

[Colorado_Outback]

The wife and I just mentioned last night about how in 1966, we'd place a little leather harness on our two year old daughter and attach her to a clothes line, in the shade, so she could do all the running and playing that she wanted but wouldn't be able to run away. Also used the same little harness and leash to contain the little twerp while in the various retail stores so she wouldn't wander away or get "taken". Parents do that now, they probably be arrested or at least get a ton of phone calls about how terrible, inconsiderate, mean we are.
Haha.
My dad tells a story very similar, my grandmother clipped him to the line for about a month after he and his friend from across the street took a walk down to the cardealership in Rawlins, WY at about 5 years old.

[osok-308]

I believe that moral relativism has a lot to do with it. Today the only "evil" that people see is the possibility of offending someone. We don't want parents to be offended that their child may not be that great so we give out ribbons to last place kids. We want everyone to feel like winners even when they're not, so we no longer give out As and Fs as grades do we give out checks and smiley faces. When kids act out, they don't get spanked, they get medicated because it is much easier to blame something that a kid can't help than to come to terms with the fact that people are shitty parents. Instead of standing up to bullies, kids are to draw pictures about how bullies make them feel. We live in a world where people don't think about consequences because they've been sheltered from consequences.

A lot of the problem is that society is is emasculating men. And when you emasculated men, they cannot become the great men they were meant to be.

[Great-Kazoo]

with the usual Sears catalog for handy but harsh wiping. Ouch!!

wipe with the print, not against.

[rockhound]

As a parent, it's you're responsibility to have them put down their video games, cell phones etc. Without guidance it's not their fault.




yeah i think there are for too few of us around, my kids are all on time limtis with their ipods and video games, they are not allowed to take them in the car when the family is together, they are not allowed to have while we are camping or at the dinner table. they are required to engage the family and actually talk to one another. they have never been allowed to walk around a restaurant or play games in the aisles.

i have a buddy who's family came out for a week long camping trip with us last 4th of july, his kids have never been to colorado. we were in some of the most spectacular areas of the state for a week. his kids never put down their ipod and cell phones long enough to look around. what a shame.

I don't see this getting any better anytime soon.....

i know that a lot of you can relate to how i feel, i am not a religious person, but i don't believe you have to have religion to live an honorable life, and my kids are being taught right from worng and the value of a good days labor, (my son had to spread 10 tons of 1 1/2 gravel to earn enough money purchase a used xbox) that took him nearly a month to complete HA. But there are so many of these kids these days that would absolutely ptich a fit if they had to help dad spread gravel OMG there are people you can pay to do that.

I have taught him to sweat copper and run drain lines, fix drywall paint, he helped m build the new shop, start to finish. These kinds of skills are important and will make him a better man, there is only one of his good friends that seems to also get it

[rockhound]

Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon. I used to be encouraged and inspired by that saying. Now I just get bummed out by it.

I don't think that that accomplishment is the end all to be all and it should not be, but it seems that it was at leat at the time proof that we were a great nation and that a melting pot of people and ideas could work and come together and reach a goal and unite everyone in a sense of accomplishment...

there have been other successes, but not in a long time.

[Mtn.man]

We as a country have fallen.
We as people have failed.

When I was young my parents/grandparents were proud.
It was an embarrassment to be on da welfare.
Idiots were frowned upon.

People worked.
Kids worked.
I worked.

We were not Entitled.

[Great-Kazoo]

I don't think that that accomplishment is the end all to be all and it should not be, but it seems that it was at leat at the time proof that we were a great nation and that a melting pot of people and ideas could work and come together and reach a goal and unite everyone in a sense of accomplishment...

there have been other successes, but not in a long time.

How quickly you forget, ACA hit 7 million [ROFL2]

[Mtn.man]

And 1 mill signed up when the site was Down.

350k+ are already dead but they might get coverage.

[Ridge]

I am confused and honestly dumbfounded as to how this can possibly happen so fast. I do not see any end to our stupidity and am ashamed of what has transpired and what is to come. Ashamed of what we have created for my children. That we have guaranteed that for the first time in over 200 years our children will not better off than we were.

It costs money to put a man on the Moon. It cost $25.4 BILLION in 1973 dollars. That is about $139 billion in 2014 dollars. For 11 years of cutting edge technology development and logistics to put 10 men on the Moon.

The DoD budget in 2011 was $718 billion. Iraq and Afghanistan cost $159 billion in 2011 alone. And we are Trillions of dollars in debt.


I am hoping that somewhere there are kids that will figure this out and put down their video games and make something tangible and real that can make a difference.

Putting games down. Maybe not that great of an idea. Allows people to dream big and try out new things for double digit dollars. Kerbal Space Program, (http://store.steampowered.com/app/220200/) a procedural space industry game that costs $16 and change, and even works together with NASA to help get people interested in space travel, and allows them to come up with new and innovative ideas of what to do for any random situation that can occur during the exploration of the solar system. Spend 5 minutes in the Kerbal Space Program subreddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/) and see that innovation still exists.

[ZERO THEORY]

We were the most powerful nation on the planet and secured our position as such that very day. We were untouchable. The dominant military force, the most powerful economy, the largest producers of steel and coal and vehicles. Our capability of waging war and defending ourselves, defending our allies was unquestioned. Our president was admired. Our way of life was admired and sought after by most of the worlds population.


I'll be the buzzkill.

The Constitution is our unified symbol of what America should represent. It's what we reference when we try to better the country. But the reality is that at the country's absolute best, it was a nation where people were denied human rights on the basis of skin color, women weren't allowed safety from domestic abuse, non-Anglo immigrants were sterilized in experiments and banished to ghettos, and our economic and military power was based largely on our imperialistic genocides and atrocities.

I want to one day live in an America where I know that my Constitutional rights are COMPLETELY unimpeded and unmolested. But I realize now that that will never happen. And for the exponentially overwhelming majority of Americans, it was never a nation of absolute freedom or opportunity.

[Ronin13]

Rockhound- I'll say this, it's shameful when people are no longer proud. Too many in this country are all about "gettin' theirs" from the government. It's no longer about being a success. When people on the public dole see it as "hey, I'm gettin' money and I ain't gotta lift a finger to get it!" then there is no more drive to be better. People are content with whatever income they get for nothing. Call it lazy, call it apathetic, call it whatever, that's the way it is. If I was fine with making the same amount of money, with no upward mobility in life, yeah, that would be great... But I have too much pride, too much ambition, and most of all, too much goddamn self respect. These people content with what they get from welfare have none of this (granted, it's not all welfare recipients, but I'm talking about the ones that have been on it for years and years, especially the multi-generational welfare folks). They don't see it, but they and people like them, ultimately, will be our downfall. The more of the takers there are, the less givers there are. Simple math, when this equation unbalances, things will collapse. And that's just one aspect of what you're talking about. Don't get me started on the people who feel like we've screwed up as a country, and deserve to get whatever is coming. These people need to be high fived... in the face... with an axe.


As a parent, it's you're responsibility to have them put down their video games, cell phones etc. Without guidance it's not their fault.

Until parent[s] are willing to be parents and not their children's BFF it will never happen. While there is a fine line between discipline and abuse, putting the fear of [insert deity] in to them, so they open their eyes & minds, is something a lot of parents don't have the backbone to do.
This! I've seen too often modern parents (not all, but quite a few) content with letting schools (aka the government) raise their kids. This is where many parents have failed...

[sniper7]

Every generation sees a downfall from when they were kids. There is no one right answer as to why it happens, but the cycle will continue. No doubt in my mind. I just question how far it will go.

[Ridge]

Because they only look at the negatives. Agent Smith was right, humanity defines their existence through negative events.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32jHiAkQzfk

In the past 50 years, we've thrown away cell phones with more computing power than was available to get to the Moon, because they're too dumb. We have a device in our pockets that has unfettered access to the accumulated knowledge of the human race. We've eradicated diseases that just decades ago were killing or crippling entire generations. We've mapped the human genome, the human brain. We have video programs that are higher definition and smoother imagery than reality itself. We have cars that take us farther, faster, using less fuel, and with more technology in it than most of our homes. And those cars are designed to protect humanity from hurting itself. Designed to protect the occupants and those around it from the incompetence of the person controlling it.

The world today is infinitely better than it was in 1964.

[Rabid]

Every generation sees a downfall from when they were kids. There is no one right answer as to why it happens, but the cycle will continue. No doubt in my mind. I just question how far it will go.
I am not sure i believe that entirely it was not until the generations born in the late 70's and beyond that it was said they will not have it as good or better then their parents. Sure values can change and be seen as a downfall to previous generations but it is not always a downfall to the country as a whole.
I think one of our greatest triumphs in the past 100 years has perpetuated our downfall with an idea that the government can help and the safety of the people is paramount. We came out of the great depression as a battered nation but WW2 showed we were the super power of the day. We held on to government programs that were only supposed to last until we got back onto our feet thinking if it worked it worked but has lead to the unraveling of our economic and political situation IMHO. I have no doubt that FDR's "throw shit at a wall until it sticks" policy's helped us accelerate out of the great depression because the people affected did not have to worry about the future but it was just supposed to be a band aid and not a way of life like it is now. It seems we are no longer strong and enduring unless the government has a say in it.
We went from a great country to one that was begging for food back to an even more powerful and great country in 15 years. It could happen again today, the right shit storm just needs to happen. I hope it happens and it happens soon. To think every generation was a downfall from the last is nonsensical, we could not still be a super power if that was true. In some instances we have jumped hurtles furthering our selves and others we have fall flat on our faces. If anything the past has shown is that we operate like a metronome. The balls get hit and we go from one extreme then to the next and at some point balance out until the balls are hit again. It can happen fast or it can happen slow but the only way we will fail is if the balls get hit and we fall over or we are never allowed to balance out.

[rockhound]

i am not talking about the technology and advancements, that is not what makes a nation great. well that is part of it, i am talking more about opportunity and world respect

of course their have been advancements, not necessarily for the better, a 1978 ford Granada witha carbeurated v8 302, had a epa est of 28 on the highway and cost $6,000, now you can get a honda for $35,000 that gets 31 mpg, WOW

Cell phones are amazing, and are the biggest distraction to what should be important, and quite honestly have made us all dumber, myself, i used to be able to kepp 100 phones numbers in my head at all times, clients, friends, family, suppliers I had it all, now i cant remember shit, phone numbers no way, they are all in my phone. we all use our brains less and that makes us not nearly as sharp as we used to be.

The country was not perfect in 1969, there was racisim, and fewer laws to protect gays, women, and whatever group might have been mistreated. I am not saying that internally we did not have things to work on. I am looking at the larger picture, globally and economically, and natinonal power and pride, the further oportunities for the next generation, that fact that our public national, global and monetary policies are killing this country.

If you think that the black community is better off now than they were in 1969 you are sorely mistaken, the reverse racism is as bad or worse than racism in 1969, their unemployment numbers are off the charts, the young black man is some cities has way more chance of getting shot that graduating high school, they are squandering their opportunites that were fought for by men like MLK, they do not see a future and so are self destructing,

this is spreading to other races as well.

In 1969 everyone could at least look at their future and see light, now their is a large portion of the population that can only see dark,

inflation the cost of a home the cost of a decent car will prevent many from ever being out of debt, my children's generation will probably never have a chance at the career they want from college, or even be able to afford college. even a mediocre scholl will be out of reach for many kids,

[DavieD55]

With all of the mind altering drugs that are being pumped into society (illegal and controlled) the attack and abadonment on wholesome traditional values, morality, god, all forms of Americanism, and the push towards global governance is what is weakening and destroying the USA. I realize that sounds pretty simplistic, but that is my answer.

[dirtrulz]

It is amazing what this country accomplished in a couple hundred years. To go from nothing to the number one super power in the world, and now rapidly heading back to nothing. I dont understand how people dont see that this generation is getting away form the ideals and type of person that made this country what it is, and that it is not a good thing. We need to get back to running things and doing things that way they were done then. Back when we were not all about making everyone like us and feel good. Why should we care what some other country thinks about our gun laws and what do we care about theirs. We need to pull back a little and get our crap figured out. We have the people and the resources to take care of ourselves. Our president should not be bowing or kissing the ring of anyone. They need us, not the other way around. Imagine what would happen to china if we stopped buying their crap. Arab countries if we stopped buying their oil. All those other craphole countries we give billions to every year that we borrow from other countries. They should be grovelling at our feet.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

They need us, not the other way around. Imagine what would happen to china if we stopped buying their crap. Arab countries if we stopped buying their oil.

Sadly, right now China is thinking, "imagine what would happen to the US if we immediately stopped loaning them money."
Arab countries are thinking, "imagine would would happen to the US if we started messing around with the price of oil again."

[Ridge]

Sadly, right now China is thinking, "imagine what would happen to the US if we immediately stopped loaning them money."
Arab countries are thinking, "imagine would would happen to the US if we started messing around with the price of oil again."

67% of US debt is held by the citizens of the United States. China makes up 8%, Japan 7%, and 17% to other nations around the globe.

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/11/who-holds-our-debt/

[hatidua]

Sadly, right now China is thinking, "imagine what would happen to the US if we immediately stopped loaning them money."

The United States of America consumes. If the USA quit buying cheap Chino-crap, it'd be more than just a little speed bump in the Chinese economy - an economy whose workers are now demanding higher wages and standards of living. Someone has to buy that stuff and while China may be building infrastructure in Sudan, I highly doubt there are as many Walmart's in Khartoum as there are in Denver.


Arab countries are thinking, "imagine would would happen to the US if we started messing around with the price of oil again."

The U.S., in 2013, imported less oil from OPEC countries than it did from non-OPEC countries and domestic production is at the highest point in the last 25 years. We still buy oil from the Middle East but I cannot help but think the Arab oil producers are thanking Allah that China and India are increasing their level of demand, because the USA is diminishing our reliance on them each and every the year.

[Aloha_Shooter]

our economic and military power was based largely on our imperialistic genocides and atrocities.

I see someone's been drinking the liberal Kool-Aid despite being a gun enthusiast. Our country has been far from perfect but this statement is a load of horsefeathers. The economic power really stems primarily from a combination of free enterprise and the industrial engine of the early 20th century. We had no economic power during the 19th century and the only military "power" (if you want to call it that) during that period was during the Mexican-American War. There were atrocities but they were sparse and largely the acts of individuals. I defy you to name any atrocities in American history that had any significant benefit to our economic or military power.

[ZERO THEORY]

I see someone's been drinking the liberal Kool-Aid despite being a gun enthusiast. Our country has been far from perfect but this statement is a load of horsefeathers. The economic power really stems primarily from a combination of free enterprise and the industrial engine of the early 20th century. We had no economic power during the 19th century and the only military "power" (if you want to call it that) during that period was during the Mexican-American War. There were atrocities but they were sparse and largely the acts of individuals. I defy you to name any atrocities in American history that had any significant benefit to our economic or military power.

The forced annexation of Hawaii comes to mind. Eradicating a race of people to gain land for ports, railways, and military bases also immediately sings to me.

Also, I'd hardly call the American Eugenics movement, the Tuskegee experiments, or dropping an atomic bomb on a densely civilian-populated city acts of individuals.

[Aloha_Shooter]

The annexation of Hawai`i was hardly US government policy and it added nothing to the economic power of the US, then or now. The fact the American businessmen convinced an ambitious American ambassador to use US Marines to enforce their revolution had nothing to do with American policy. The Hawai`ian race was put down by malihini over the years since the Overthrow but hardly eradicated. I'll give you the fact that social pressures in the 50s-70s got so bad that most people living there (even kama`ainas) didn't even know how to pronounce words properly but those social pressures had nothing to do with economic or military power and you can argue the Hawai`ian culture has been spread much further than it ever would have been if the islands had remained a cloistered group in the middle of the ocean. The fact of the matter is that the Hawai`ian Kingdom was never going to last through the 20th century as the French, Germans, Russians, and Japanese all had their eyes on it in the late 19th century.

You did know one of the reasons Liliuokalani kept her people from fighting back is that she felt the US government would return the islands back to her like Grover Cleveland had done before, right? As much as I disagree with the malihini trying to force Bishop Estate to sell its landholdings, it again has nothing to do with America's economic or military power -- I'd even contend the fact they are getting any legal or political support for what is out-and-out theft of private property is more of a sign or secondary fallout of the decline of America's economic might.

Again, you're conflating atrocities that were committed by individuals when you're talking about the Eugenics movement or Tuskegee experiments -- and neither of those examples led in any way to increased economic or military power (you know, your main thesis?). The Tuskegee experiments were just plain stupid, hardly an example of "imperialism". As far as the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings go, not only were the munitions factories legitimate targets, in the end, the bombings saved 3 times as many Japanese lives as they took ... by Japan's own estimates! The Japanese Army had intended to defend the home islands with the same strategy (women, kids and old folks on the beaches while the main forces hunkered down in bunkers for a last stand) as they used on the outer islands. At the end of the day, Truman made a very difficult decision with the goal of protecting US lives and ending the war as quickly as he could.

Did you take a class from Ward Churchill or are you getting this agit-prop fecal matter from some other source?

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

67% of US debt is held by the citizens of the United States. China makes up 8%, Japan 7%, and 17% to other nations around the globe.


If you don't think 8 plus percent can rock a financial boat in a serious, serious way, well [Dunno] go read up on leverage.



The United States of America consumes. If the USA quit buying cheap Chino-crap, it'd be more than just a little speed bump in the Chinese economy - an economy whose workers are now demanding higher wages and standards of living. Someone has to buy that stuff and while China may be building infrastructure in Sudan, I highly doubt there are as many Walmart's in Khartoum as there are in Denver.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll get right on that.
I'm far less concerned with the stuff people are buying at Walmart than some of our critical tech doo-dads. That's just me, personally.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123914805204099085



The U.S., in 2013, imported less oil from OPEC countries than it did from non-OPEC countries and domestic production is at the highest point in the last 25 years. We still buy oil from the Middle East but I cannot help but think the Arab oil producers are thanking Allah that China and India are increasing their level of demand, because the USA is diminishing our reliance on them each and every the year.

Oil is oil. It is a world market. If any of the major players change their game on it, it impacts everyone.

[ZERO THEORY]

The Hawai`ian race was put down by malihini over the years since the Overthrow but hardly eradicated.

I was referring to what we call 'Native Americans'.


The fact of the matter is that the Hawai`ian Kingdom was never going to last through the 20th century as the French, Germans, Russians, and Japanese all had their eyes on it in the late 19th century.


So fatalism is a free pass?



You did know one of the reasons Liliuokalani kept her people from fighting back is that she felt the US government would return the islands back to her like Grover Cleveland had done before, right? As much as I disagree with the malihini trying to force Bishop Estate to sell its landholdings, it again has nothing to do with America's economic or military power

Considering the Japanese struck Pearl Harbor to try and cripple the US's Pacific fleet, I think it's safe to say that it was an important military stronghold. So...not sure how gaining Hawaii doesn't contribute to US military power?


the Eugenics movement or Tuskegee experiments -- and neither of those examples led in any way to increased economic or military power (you know, your main thesis?).

Read it again. My main thesis was that OP has romanticized American history and ignored the injustices that have occurred in every generation, keeping American history from every truly reflecting the rights and freedoms we like to imagine everyone once had.


The Tuskegee experiments were just plain stupid, hardly an example of "imperialism".

Read it again. When you break down the syntax, you'll note that I did not equate the Tuskegee experiments to being a product of imperialism. You seem to repeatedly have missed the 'and' marking a separate topic.


Again, you're conflating atrocities that were committed by individuals

And OP was mentioning that America was so much better. He referenced history. So did I. Nice try.


Did you take a class from Ward Churchill or are you getting this agit-prop fecal matter from some other source?

True or false: the US practiced eugenics
True or false: American Indians were wiped out en masse under gov't tutelage
True or false: state institutions denied Black people entry to schools and facilities
True or false: women weren't allowed to vote until 1920

I would also add that southern Democrats and the Progressive movement were instrumental in most of these examples, so spare me the liberal accusations. Especially when they're completely unfounded; a straw man retort really kills your legitimacy.

[tmckay2]

thats a bit of selective memory if you ask me. in the 60's we had all sorts of problems. the welfare state was getting off the ground, vietnam was a disaster and made our military look weak and ill prepared, racial issues in the country were tearing it apart, drug use was way up, soldiers weren't appreciated for their service, in fact they were despised. it wasn't all roses and sunshine during the events of apollo 13, the late 60's early 70's had their own issues. now the 50's and 80's you could make an argument for.

[MarkUSMC88]

The United States of America consumes. If the USA quit buying cheap Chino-crap, it'd be more than just a little speed bump in the Chinese economy - an economy whose workers are now demanding higher wages and standards of living. Someone has to buy that stuff and while China may be building infrastructure in Sudan, I highly doubt there are as many Walmart's in Khartoum as there are in Denver.

I went to Home Depot in aurora to get pliers. Not a single pair, from $3.00 to $25.00 were made anywhere but China. What a statement that none of them were made in the U.S. I did not buy a pair. It's sad.

[hatidua]

I went to Home Depot in aurora to get pliers. Not a single pair, from $3.00 to $25.00 were made anywhere but China. What a statement that none of them were made in the U.S. I did not buy a pair. It's sad.

I'm probably a bit late in my quest but I've lately been trying to selectively only buy U.S.-made goods when possible....or at least stuff that isn't mass-produced in Asian sweatshops (disclaimer: I was raised in Asia, I'm not anti-Asian). Sure, a Filson bag made in Seattle costs more than something that The North Face has made in Ghuangzhou but I'm willing to bet it will last longer...and if it doesn't, Filson's replacement warranty is a whole lot better than anything TNF has ever offered. I still have Made-in-USA Patagonia items from the mid-80's that look new in spite of heavy wear, the new Vietnam/China stuff they're pumping out isn't of the same quality.

There are still U.S. companies making clothing, tools, shoes, Etc. Yes, it takes effort (and increased spending) to go that route. Will my individual purchasing habits affect anything at all? -Absolutely, it gives me pride of ownership and that's worth something to ME.

[rockhound]

Zero theroy's issue is that he sees past atrocities as a reason that a country cannot be great.

We wiped out the american indian: America has continued to recognize its short coming and has made great strides to correct them. Many of those strides go even so far as to now discriminate against whites and other races in the attempt to be fair. To sit back a lament that country is not great and that it must continue to be punished for mistakes that are in the past is dumb. There is not a world power anywhere that has not committed some type of discrimination, taken advantage of some population of its people, conquered another nation, defeated another nation in war or in some way been unfair to someone.

The idea of america was to strive to be fair and balanced and allow everyone the chance to better themselves. there will never a be perfect nation where everything is fair to everyone and strive for this eutopia is a waste of time.

The fact that atrocities in the eyes of some have occurred should not detract from the accomplishments of this country. If you think there is a more fair and balanced contry to live in I believe your gov't gives you that right.

1920 yeah women were just getting to vote, so what we now have almost 100 years of women's suffrage, try finding womans rights in any other country that rival ours. Women in a lot of countries would just like to be treated as human, much less vote This is not a clear example of our shortcomings, in fact would be an accomplishment.

Yes black men were discriminated against, and the US has made great strides in correcting any discrimination ever made against them. Name another country that bends over backwards to kiss the ass of anyone they have ever wronged. When i was in college in the 80's i did not qualify for student grants, why , the financial aid office flat out told me i was the wrong color. Blacks are now free to discriminate against white people for any number of reasons, whites are constantly charged with hate crimes and blacks get away with it, blacks have their own scholarships, clubs, colleges, and any number of a hundred other associations that declare themselves for blacks only, but if you have a whites only club you are a racist.
The ways blacks were treated in the past are in the past, I know that racism exists, it exists both directions and in all directions, this is a human nature thing and not an american downfall, to ignore the strides that have been made is a poor argument. The biggest detriment to the black community these days is the president they so desperately wanted the his policies set the balck community further back everyday.

yeah we dropped bombs on hiroshima, and nagasaki, we wiped out hundreds of thousands of people in a few moments time. War is horrible and unfortunately i dont think this country has the nuts to do it again. This is one of the things that I lament and MAKE NO MISTAKE; THIS COUNTRY IS WEAKER FOR IT. Our enemies know our country has become a left wing touchy-feely,tree hugger,steaming pile of crap, They know we are have been trying to fight wars, for decades now, without killing anyone. This will be our undoing. War is hell and people die, and the country that wins is the one that is willing to do the damage necessary to bring the enemy to its knees. They way we fought every conflict since Vietnam would make the likes of Washington, Patton, Sherman, roll around in their graves.

The bombs we dropped were necessary without a doubt in anyones mind, If you think the Japanese would not have dropped them on us in a heart beat had they been capable then your wallpaper tastes like snozzeberries.

If you think you are going to get to your grave without seeing WWIII you have your head in your ass. Anyone who believes this passifying the world and apologizing and bowing to world leaders and kissing everyone's butts has made us stronger is smoking Colorado's newest crop.

Bottom line, the apologists are making us weaker, anyone who thinks that we need to pacify those that have been discrimated against is making us weaker, taking our rights away is making us weaker, not using our natural resources is making us weaker, importing goods, printing money, propping up our economy with never ending QE, buying into the global warming BS, paying for and fining people/companies to fight global warming, allowing the Fed and EPA to run amuck, common core, affirmative action, gov't welfare, welfare without responsibility (work programs, drug free requirement, time limits), downsizing the missile defense system, shutting down NASA, ignoring illegal immigration, not requiring voter ID, are just a few of a hundred policies that are making it impossible to defend ourselves, pay our own way and ensure that this country will be here for another generation.

We have squandered the dreams and the opportunites that have been handed to us in order to have everyone like us. Guess what not everyone is going to like us. So what, the only thing they need to do is respect the power of our people and our reslove to be the most powerful lawful and defensible country in the world. Without that it is only a matter of time before the wolves are at the door.

[wctriumph]

...

Bottom line, the apologists are making us weaker, anyone who thinks that we need to pacify those that have been discrimated against is making us weaker, taking our rights away is making us weaker, not using our natural resources is making us weaker, importing goods, printing money, propping up our economy with never ending QE, buying into the global warming BS, paying for and fining people/companies to fight global warming, allowing the Fed and EPA to run amuck, common core, affirmative action, gov't welfare, welfare without responsibility (work programs, drug free requirement, time limits), downsizing the missile defense system, shutting down NASA, ignoring illegal immigration, not requiring voter ID, are just a few of a hundred policies that are making it impossible to defend ourselves, pay our own way and ensure that this country will be here for another generation.

We have squandered the dreams and the opportunites that have been handed to us in order to have everyone like us. Guess what not everyone is going to like us. So what, the only thing they need to do is respect the power of our people and our reslove to be the most powerful lawful and defensible country in the world. Without that it is only a matter of time before the wolves are at the door.

Correct. I have my rifle, ammo and I am a pretty good shot. When the time comes I will show my resolve. I am an American, I know who I am and I know why we are here. I have been fighting against the tyranny that is causing America's pain for 40 years (since I could vote). I will continue the fight without apologies to anyone. I am an American.


TEA

III

[ZERO THEORY]

Zero theroy's issue is that he sees past atrocities as a reason that a country cannot be great.

Nope. I see past atrocities as a reason that it wasn't great in the past. I see current shortcomings as a reason it isn't great. I see continuing trends as a reason it won't be great unless drastic change occurs.


it must continue to be punished for mistakes that are in the past

Not at all my point.


There is not a world power anywhere that has not committed some type of discrimination, taken advantage of some population of its people, conquered another nation, defeated another nation in war or in some way been unfair to someone.

The idea of america was to strive to be fair and balanced and allow everyone the chance to better themselves. there will never a be perfect nation where everything is fair to everyone and strive for this eutopia is a waste of time.

Understood and agreed.


The fact that atrocities in the eyes of some have occurred should not detract from the accomplishments of this country.

Also agreed. Wasn't trying to detract from the things that were accomplished and commendable.



blacks have their own scholarships, clubs, colleges, and any number of a hundred other associations that declare themselves for blacks only, but if you have a whites only club you are a racist.

Understood and agreed.


If you think you are going to get to your grave without seeing WWIII you have your head in your ass. Anyone who believes this passifying the world and apologizing and bowing to world leaders and kissing everyone's butts has made us stronger is smoking Colorado's newest crop.

I'm no pacifist, to put things lightly.


Bottom line, the apologists are making us weaker, anyone who thinks that we need to pacify those that have been discrimated against is making us weaker, taking our rights away is making us weaker, not using our natural resources is making us weaker, importing goods, printing money, propping up our economy with never ending QE, buying into the global warming BS, paying for and fining people/companies to fight global warming, allowing the Fed and EPA to run amuck, common core, affirmative action, gov't welfare, welfare without responsibility (work programs, drug free requirement, time limits), downsizing the missile defense system, shutting down NASA, ignoring illegal immigration, not requiring voter ID, are just a few of a hundred policies that are making it impossible to defend ourselves, pay our own way and ensure that this country will be here for another generation.

I am staunchly against welfare, political correctness, retroactive placation, illegal asylum, and just about every other liberal point of contention except global warming because I'm a geochem student and...yeah. It's definitely happening, but the idea that we "need to stop it" or that it's unnatural is laughable. The earth works in cycles and droughts, storms, and other geophysical phenomenon are a part of nature. We just happen to be speeding things up drastically. But that's a whole different topic which I will leave alone.

We have squandered the dreams and the opportunites that have been handed to us in order to have everyone like us. Guess what not everyone is going to like us. So what, the only thing they need to do is respect the power of our people and our reslove to be the most powerful lawful and defensible country in the world. Without that it is only a matter of time before the wolves are at the door.[/QUOTE]

[rockhound]

Nope. I see past atrocities as a reason that it wasn't great in the past. I see current shortcomings as a reason it isn't great. I see continuing trends as a reason it won't be great unless drastic change occurs.

[/QUOTE]

Understand your point completely and based on your last post maybe your head is not as far up your a.. as some of your previous responses. [Beer]

The whole point of my OP was that this country at the time i was born, at least held promise for everyone and that the rest of the world respected us militarily and financially and we were leading the world in at least the idea of fairness, modern technology, and a better life for everyone who was willing to work at it, despite past atrocicites that made us great.

We have taken that sense of promise and thrown it in the trash and despite any past atrocites we were a better, stronger, more repsected nation that we are today. What many consider atrocities and what will make a better nation today is exactly what is making us less of a nation and placing our future in dire jeopardy.

[Ronin13]

I just have one question for Zero Theory- If America is so bad, why are so many people flooding into this country from other places (namely that country to our south)?

[02ducky]

I just have one question for Zero Theory- If America is so bad, why are so many people flooding into this country from other places (namely that country to our south)?

Don't you think going for terrible to bad is still a step up?

[ZERO THEORY]

Understand your point completely and based on your last post maybe your head is not as far up your a.. as some of your previous responses. [Beer]

The whole point of my OP was that this country at the time i was born, at least held promise for everyone and that the rest of the world respected us militarily and financially and we were leading the world in at least the idea of fairness, modern technology, and a better life for everyone who was willing to work at it, despite past atrocicites that made us great.

We have taken that sense of promise and thrown it in the trash and despite any past atrocites we were a better, stronger, more repsected nation that we are today. What many consider atrocities and what will make a better nation today is exactly what is making us less of a nation and placing our future in dire jeopardy.

I'm with you. One way or another, the decisions and actions of past Americans created opportunity for economic prosperity, safety in living, and a pride that were unrivaled. The only thing that we can do to move past the atrocities that have occurred is to make them have counted for something. I also agree that the promise that did exist has been shitkicked in the name of some comically unrealistic liberal dream of the world holding hands and singing 'Kumbaya'. I envy the fact that you at least had a chance to live in an America where we built our own (quality) vehicles, charged criminals for fucking crimes, and didn't punish the citizenry for practicing their rights and freedoms.


I just have one question for Zero Theory- If America is so bad, why are so many people flooding into this country from other places (namely that country to our south)?

This is an extrapolation as well. My father was born in South Africa. Him and my grandfather fled in the face of apartheid violence. They sought refuge in Zaire (now the D.R.C.), only to live amidst civil war. With no resources or opportunity to speak of, my dad made his own way to Canada, then to the U.S. where he got a B.S.B.M. and MS in Electrical Engineering. He went on to work as a telecom. eng. for Lockheed Martin designing comm. relays for satellite arrays. Needless to say, there was opportunity, and promise for my father as well.

My point of contention was to dispel romanticism and offer a cynical look at the reality of what the best moments of an empire really are. Not everyone can be a winner, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and mankind is vicious. I realize this, and I hope it is now clear that my point was not that America didn't, doesn't, or can't show moments of brilliance and greatness. Rather that life is cruel because even in prosperity, someone must suffer when we look at things en masse.