Cast Bullet Feeding Problem - 45 acp

[Caithford]

I purchased a new Lee .45 ACP 6 cavity mold a few months back. I broke it in so it was dropping good bullets and cast about 150 of them or so. Over the past couple of months, I've been loading up some test rounds, but been having non-stop feeding problems with these things.


The new mold is the 228 gr, .452 round nose profile. Previously, I'd been using the 230 gr .452 tumble lube version. I had no problems with the TL bullets, as the profile is somewhat conical, with a fairly steep slope towards the point compared to the new bullets.


The new bullets are even gentler sloped and "fatter" at the base than my winchester factory 230gr fmj rn rounds. I think what's happening is that the "fatter" profile causes the nose of the bullet to be higher when ascending the feed ramp than on my other rounds. Then the top curve of the bullet catches on the top edge of the chamber.


I use Win231 and WST. I load somewhere around 4.5gr of powder for each of them (on the light side, at 50% recommended or a little lower).


Normally, I'd load at 1.272" per the Lyman book. I've been unable to get any of the new bullets to feed when loading at that length. The "plunk test" seems to work, so I don't think the length is the issue.


It might be my firearms. I've tried it in both my SA XD(m) and my EAA Witness with similar results. The top of the bullet catches on the top of the chamber. Since I have no problems at all with either pistol feeding the TL bullet, factory ammo (230gr fmj), or anything else, and these guns are considered very reliable, I really think it's the bullet profile.


What I think I need to do is drop the powder charge and load lighter. The problem is I don't really have the experience to know how much to reduce the charge for how deep I seat it. I can easily make dummy rounds for length/feeding testing. However, I don't have a chrono to verify that I'm operating in a safe range.


I'd rather not just ditch the mold unless all other options are exhausted. I'm hoping someone else has this mold, or has used it, and can offer some advice.


Oh, I have the Hornady and Lyman manuals. I don't have a Lee manual. I don't think that's necessarily the problem, but wanted to mention it just in case.

[Zombie Steve]

Well, you've loaded them about as long as any .45 auto can go. Try going the other way - 1.260" or even 1.250". I use 1.260" as pretty much standard OAL with a round nose bullet. Just keep in mind seating deeper raises pressures a bit. If you're midrange now, it may only gain 30-50 fps... not enough to be concerned with.

[earplug]

I tried that bullet with my Springfield 1911. To deep would bulge the case and longer would bounce off the feed ramp/throat. I now use the LYMAN RN mold.
The LEE RN was ok with my 625 revolver.

[Caithford]

I think I'll make up about 20 dummy rounds tonight, I can always pull them and reuse or whatever later. And see if I can get 2 mags to feed without any problems. Then when I've found a length that works, I'll throw it up here and get input on if it's too short. I also can drop my powder to minimum recommended charge too to be extra safe.


I tried that bullet with my Springfield 1911. To deep would bulge the case and longer would bounce off the feed ramp/throat. I now use the LYMAN RN mold.
The LEE RN was ok with my 625 revolver.

This is what I'm afraid of, and I think that I'm seeing in my case too. Both of my pistols are 1911 derivatives with similar feed ramp/chamber/barrel designs. I'll try to see how short I can load it to get it to feed and see if I can find a sweet spot.

[Zombie Steve]

I'm not sure what you mean by bulge in the case. The case gets sized down quite a bit... The "coke bottle" hourglass shape isn't at all uncommon when you seat a bullet. Nothing to worry about.

Is that what you meant?

[crays]

I may be off base, but all this talk of bulging, and fatter at the base...are you sizing the bullets after cast?

[Hoser]

Too long. Try loading them to about 1.240-250 or so. Come back a few tenths on the powder as you are loading shorter.

[Caithford]

I will post some pictures to help describe.

[tmjohnson]

Everybody likes a long sleek cartridge, unfortunately a 45acp is short and dumpy.
Listen to Hoser and shorten them up

[Caithford]

Okay, so loaded rounds. New bullet on left, tumble lube in middle, factory winchester on right for comparison.

43267

Here are the bullets themselves, new on left, tumble lube on right.

43269

I hope that clears up my poor descriptions a little. I'm going to try Hoser's recommendation to load a lot shorter. I just wasn't sure how far I could go before increasing the pressure measurably.

Interestingly, in doing this comparison the bullets I normally shoot are longer, so loading COL shorter isn't going to decrease internal volume as much as I thought initially. Going to drop the charge anyway to be on the safe side.

[Zombie Steve]

Yes. I think HOSER is right.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/whistling.gif

http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/greensupergrin.gif










Am I talking to a brick wall?

[Hoser]

Yes. I think HOSER is right.

Dont worry. I wont tell anyone.

[Zombie Steve]

[Coffee]

[Caithford]

I was tired, but I made one dummy round last night. I was able to chamber it from a mag from both pistols, both slingshotting the slide and releasing from slide lock. I will try a fully loaded mag tonight or tomorrow. That's not as good as a live fire test, but I'll get to that eventually. There was a small nick line in the top of the lead, so I may need to load it shorter still. I think I was down to about 1.20" or so, which based on Hoser's recommendations is still long. I'll post an update tonight.

[Hoser]

1.240-1.250 is perfect for most 45 ACP and 38 Super-ish calibers.

1.140-1.150 is perfect for most 9 and 40 calibers.

For me anyway.

[Husker95]

Too long. Try loading them to about 1.240-250 or so. Come back a few tenths on the powder as you are loading shorter.

Hoser, do you see common issues with loading that long for 45 ACP or is it gun specific? I load all my 230 RN to 1.26 or greater - it gives me that nice water-bed recoil that I like. My 1911 SA Loaded eats them just fine. Want to make sure I'm not missing something.

[Zombie Steve]

1.210" - 1.230" for a truncated cone or possibly even shorter for a lswc depending on the shoulder.... as I stated before (anyone have an "in before Hoser" gif?) I like 1.260" for just about any round nose design.

Just my experience. If they're working for you, leave it alone. You'll get to the point where you'll tune speed with OAL instead of powder charge.

[Husker95]

1.210" - 1.230" for a truncated cone or possibly even shorter for a lswc depending on the shoulder.... as I stated before (anyone have an "in before Hoser" gif?) I like 1.260" for just about any round nose design.

Just my experience. If they're working for you, leave it alone. You'll get to the point where you'll tune speed with OAL instead of powder charge.

Agree completely. When i was learning to reload for my 1911, I monkeyed with different powders and charges for a couple years before i learned the magic of OAL (within safe limits of course). A couple hundredths longer made worlds of difference for felt recoil/speed for me.

[Hoser]

Hoser, do you see common issues with loading that long for 45 ACP or is it gun specific? I load all my 230 RN to 1.26 or greater - it gives me that nice water-bed recoil that I like. My 1911 SA Loaded eats them just fine. Want to make sure I'm not missing something.

For the round nose bullet, 1.245 works in every 1911 I have tried it in. And the OAL has 45 in it so that is what I settled on.

However, just to make Zombies head hurt I dont have any 45 ACP 1911s left. I rebarreled them to the cure for the small primer blues, the 45 GAP. Now my OAL is very different. And people give me free brass.

[Zombie Steve]

Foul Godless heathen. [cigar]

[earplug]

He uses condom bullets

[sportbikeco]

A few things that could be going on here.

What dies are you using?
Are you seating and crimping in the same step?

I notice a noticeable difference while performing plunk test with seating in a separate step. It even allowed me to load longer with the same bullet. Plated bullets did not behave this way. I believe it is the lead getting squeezed/ shaved out a bit while seat/crimp at the same time.