Small Iowa Town Police Are Proud of Their New MRAP

[HoneyBadger]

http://www.dailyiowan.com/2014/04/08/Opinions/37365.html



Byrd: The new Washington war machine
BY MATTHEW BYRD (daily-iowan@uiowa.edu) | APRIL 08, 2014 5:00 AM

Sometimes the news is just so drearily awful that you have to sit back and almost appreciate the pure comedy induced by it.

Take this item from Washington, Iowa, where the local police have recently acquired an MRAP vehicle (short for Mine Resistance Ambush Protected) through a Defense Department program that donates excess vehicles originally produced for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to local police departments across the United States, including other Iowa towns such as Mason City and Storm Lake.

The MRAP weighs an impressive 49,000 pounds, stands 10-feet tall, and possesses a whopping six-wheel drive. Originally designed to resist landmines and IEDs, it sure seems like the MRAP will come in handy for the notorious war zone otherwise known as Washington County, Iowa.

If you’re having a bad day, I highly recommend watching a video produced by the Des Moines Register in which Washington police officials try to justify the possession of a vehicle it clearly has no use for. The excuses range from school shootings (which are an actual concern but an MRAP seems like overkill) to a terrorist attack happening in central Iowa (because if there’s any place that seems ripe for a high-profile terrorist attack it’s Washington, Iowa, population 7,000).

I mean if the police were realistic, they could come up with actual reasons to use their MRAP/machine of doom. Drunken high-school house parties could be broken up by ramming the MRAP into the side of the building. Clearly, people who have been trying to curtail underage drinking have not seriously considered the serious deterrents to slamming down a few Hamms in your parents’ house caused by a soulless war machine demolishing your kitchen.

In all seriousness however (and it is hard to be serious about a situation so absurd) this little anecdote does highlight several disturbing trends in the American cultural landscape. Most blatantly, the collective paranoia that’s gripped post-9/11 America so tightly that small-town Iowa police officers are convinced that, any minute, the whole state could become engulfed in some Red Dawn-style conflict that would require the use of a device such as the MRAP.

But, a little more subtly, this incident reflects the out-of-control militarization of the police that’s been occurring across small towns and big cities from Los Angeles to Waterville, Maine.
As Radley Balko, the author of the book The Rise of the Warrior Cop, an expose of the police militarization of the last decade, found, in 2006 alone the Pentagon, “distributed vehicles worth $15.4 million, aircraft worth $8.9 million, boats worth $6.7 million, weapons worth $1 million and “other” items worth $110.6 million to local police agencies.”

The effects of cops moving from handguns to assault rifles and being equipped with tanks, bazookas, and Kevlar has been twofold. First, civil liberties have absolutely been eroded, with police-brutality rates skyrocketing in last decade according to the Justice Department. Not only that, but, with the influx of military gear into local police forces, cops begin to view themselves as soldiers whose main job is combat rather than keeping the peace. How else can you explain the rise in police shootings since 9/11?
But hey, the sheriff gets to ride around in a sweet new MRAP and pretend he’s Rambo so, you know, let’s call it a draw.

[HBARleatherneck]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/kyle-munson/2014/04/05/munson-heavy-duty-military-equipment-police/7337463/

the video mentioned in the article

[rondog]

Hey, they might have to chase a kid on a dirt bike through a corn field someday.....and there could be landmines in that corn field! Hey, it's possible Jack.....

[cstone]

The Radley Balko book was a good read. He is a bit left of center for me, but he put together an interesting collection of stories to fill out his focus on the militarization of civilian law enforcement in the US. If you have the time, give it a look.

[275RLTW]

Greeley PD has had one for a bit now...

[02ducky]

Hey, it's a good thing we don't have to fear the state or federal government.

[blacklabel]

Hey, it's a good thing we don't have to fear the state or federal government.

To protect and serve.

[lead_magnet]

The need for a Law Enforcement Agency to have bullet resistant vehicle is very realistic. One reason would be to reach a downed officer or injured person when it would otherwise be unsafe, i.e. barricaded suspect, unknown suspect location, etc. Another reason some agencies get these vehicles is so that they can remain somewhat operable during flood/blizzard/disaster conditions. They can serve much more than a tactical purpose. An MRAP is a bit overkill but you get what you can get. I don't see BMW offering to give away any of their bullet-proof security vehicles. The military however does give free vehicles to agencies with a limited budget. The waiting list for one of those is very long (think 4 years if you're lucky) and you don't really get to choose which model you get.

The agency where I live has a military donated HUMVEE to be used in the event the streets are impassable by normal vehicles or if they need to relay people to and from their homes to an emergency shelter. A tornado came within a mile of this town last year, though it was small and wouldn't have done too much damage and only took out a grain tower. We also are very close to the Arkansas river which has flooded other nearby communities in the past. The HUMVEE really doesn't have any tactical application (its slow, gets crappy mileage, sucks to drive, and you could probably shoot through the doors with a 22lr) but the possibility for its use is not far fetched at all. Plus the kids dig seeing it in the parades. I'm sure if they had the opportunity to upgrade to another HUMVEE with ballistic resistance they would, and I can see why.

So, in short, I admit I don't know anything about the agency in question here, or their intentions for the vehicle, or what the most likely environmental hazards that community faces. What I do know, is that if there were 3-4 feet of water in a town and I needed to get people to safety, this 10 ft. tall 50,000 lb six wheeled vehicle would probably be nice to have. But I'm no doctor...

[lead_magnet]

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00009pupM_nZdyY/s/900/900/Calgary-Flood-2013-Police-Car-at-Calgary-Curling-Club-20130621.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/21/article-2345979-1A718255000005DC-757_634x378.jpg

vs.

http://nancynall.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/hostage1.jpg

[blacklabel]

Yep, that's why they're getting grants for MRAPs. Floods.

Seems like this makes more sense.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/2013_colorado_floods_natl_guard.jpg

[HBARleatherneck]

there are dozens of videos showing how horrible mraps do in mud and sand. so they really have no use that way.

there were roughly 70 LEO killed in the line of duty last year. (not traffic accidents, actual slayings) so every department in the country needs an mrap in preparation for this almost non existent possibility? no they are getting these to have a dick measuring contest with other departments. A humvee and an mrap are not the same. if they were getting surplus 5 tons I could see the use. by the time a department can deploy one of these things the situation would likely be over. its about a show.

and having some guy who rarely drives a big vehicle driving a 50 ton vehicle on our streets is probably going to cause more death than it prevents. I know you can try to justify it however you want, it doesnt wash.

680,000 cops in the US. 70 actually killed by criminals is pretty low. more die in traffic accidents. Crime is down across the board and has been going down for years. A handful of high profile shootings that the media blow up and now everyone is gearing up for WW3.

[MarkUSMC88]

I am reminded of these swat Mobile in diehard, the movie. Law-enforcement ability to approach a hostage situation safely seems like a good idea to me. And, unlike in the diehard, they can be hit with an RPG and survive, of course, I am just kidding.

I concur with the above post about someone not used to driving heavy vehicles, it's truly a destructors force unleashed if someone doesn't know what they're doing. How many MARINES have been killed by close tracked vehicles... It truly does require specialized training and experience

[lead_magnet]

An MRAP cant drive on a flooded street because it does bad in mud and sand? Compared to a Crown Vic? Having never driven an MRAP I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that it probably does just a smidge better than a Crown Vic in the snow/mud/water area. If not the military should buy some old cop cars, [Coffee]

In a perfect world every PD/FD would have a rescue boat, the PD would have an armored Chevy Tahoe or equivalent for tactical use, a heavy vehicle for use when the streets aren't crown-vic friendly and maybe a bus to transport people. In reality that just isn't in the cards. To alot of PDs free stuff makes a huge difference.

Some departs probably do want one just to show off. That doesn't accurately represent the majority of agencies, at least in my opinion.

To counter leatherneck's argument about the number of officers killed, the purpose for that kind of vehicle isn't to transport the dead, it is to service the community, and to prevent death. How many civilians were killed last year? How many were rescued from flood conditions? What about tornados? How many people did LEOs and Firefighters transport in their vehicle when that person was in need last year?

I don't understand how saying that the low number of Police Officers killed negates the need for special equipment. The point of the equipment isn't to prevent the death of Officers.

https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/52/f1/06/52f106d43c9eb47aa80bc31bf1651d9a.jpg
http://www.elwinwitzke.com/wp-content/uploads/snow_police1.jpg

Blizzards never happen in Colorado right? Even if one did, there would be no way that someone would attempt to burglarize, rob or harm someone when they were vulnerable.

It's easy to armchair quarterback these kinda of things when you're no invloved in the process. Why focus on the negatives? Does having the vehicle at their disposal benefit the town? I believe it does. Did it cost the town any money? Nope. The things people don't see about the 1033 program is all the little things. Several towns have a supply of cots/sleeping bags/backpacks etc. stored to give to citizens in a time of need. Where do they get all that stuff? Same place that MRAP came from. Or we would just park all those vehicles on a tarmac somewhere and let them collect dust. I fail to see the problem.

If the problem is that the vehicle looks to military like, then donate 3 gallons of pink paint so they can spread breast cancer awareness, or donate a 4 wheel drive utility vehicle.

[HBARleatherneck]

I see you can justify anything. also mraps are extremely top heavy. so they can roll over easy. easy into ditches, easy in the snow and ice. they are absolutely not needed. And even the chief in the video acknowledged the military isnt allowed to police. but now our police can be the military. none of this is for the benefit of the citizenry.

what about maintenance costs? sure they are "free" up front. plus driving a vehicle that heavy in an unfamiliar setting of a flood or similar scenario, will probably just end up with more damage.

5 ton trucks like the National Guard usually uses for floods is the best option. They have snorkels arent top heavy and are much much lighter.

I love the part about not focusing on the negative. we should just not criticize our government and and let them do whatever they want because clearly they know better than us arm chair quarterbacking citizens.
A good citizen must scrutinize the government and governmental employees . We must keep them honest.


and how many citizens killed? more than 500 per year by the cops. just saying.


and if you read my posts in this thread, I am not bashing cops. I am saying MRAPS in US law enforcement hands is bullshit. impractical and ridiculous.

[sniper7]

There is no need for the cops around here to have those things. National guard saved the day during the floods. Let them do their job.

[Irving]

Good discussion in here. I think Lead_magnet has a valid point about why the police departments accept such vehicles (I'd take one for free too). HBAR brings up a great point that the police are so excited by their new acquisition that no attention is paid to how the new vehicle looks from the non-LEO side. I think it'd go a long way for the police to advertise exactly what their intentions are for the vehicles, then bring them to schools for kids to check out, etc, etc. Just showing off something straight off the battlefield with no appropriate commentary about intended use sends the wrong message though.

[275RLTW]

Why shouldn't local PD have them? Because the military uses them??? They're not tanks people. They are personnel carriers. They are not rolling through towns with them with 25mm cannons on them on Traffic stops. If we say that police shouldn't have them because the military has them then what about the rifles this forum is about??? LE has always used surplus military gear, and tactics, and people. Take the tin foil off...

[HBARleatherneck]

im saying they shouldnt have them because the best reasoning they came come up with for having them is bullshit. they are not search and rescue vehicles and used as such could get people killed. they would most likely never be used in the situations that they would actually help in because the situation would end sooner than the vehicle could be deployed. And lastly the costs which Im sure the brain trust isnt thinking about is the maintenance costs. " cool free shit" and then the bill from the shop would be 10 times more than if they bought practical vehicles.

and no I dont want to see US LEO with anymore military gear than they already have. Unless we are allowed to own everything they own.

[OneGuy67]

The Colorado National Guard doesn't have 5 tons or dueces anymore. They have LMTV's, which are the latest and greatest thing.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Ridge]

Why shouldn't local PD have them? Because the military uses them??? They're not tanks people. They are personnel carriers. They are not rolling through towns with them with 25mm cannons on them on Traffic stops. If we say that police shouldn't have them because the military has them then what about the rifles this forum is about??? LE has always used surplus military gear, and tactics, and people. Take the tin foil off...

Why do the police need them? Were the GMCs too easily taken out by the IEDs on Colfax?

[275RLTW]

Why do the police need them? Were the GMCs too easily taken out by the IEDs on Colfax?
If you think an MRAP is only used for travel in mine/IED areas, then ARs are only used for killing people. Perhaps the PD wants one for the same reason we want full autos and suppressors...because we can.

[Delfuego]

Why do the police need them? Were the GMCs too easily taken out by the IEDs on Colfax?Dude, you just got Pony Punched... [013]

[ben4372]

I think the police are scared. I don't actually know how much a set of tires for those cost. Based on what other heavy tires cost 1500- 2000 a piece would not surprise me. DOT and emissions standards? Maybe the country has devolved to the point they need them? Who knows, but it does feel like half-tracks driving through Germany.

[lead_magnet]

I'm not saying the MRAP is the best vehicle for search and rescue. I don't know the first thing about them other than they are an armored heavy all-terrain vehicle. There are limits to what a PD can receive for free, for example a department can usually get one rifle for every Officer employed by the department. So a small PD wont be getting several vehicles, and the vehicle selection is highly competitive and the selection is limited. You literally have to take what you can get.

We as gun/survival/prepper guys tend to be "what if" people by nature. I'll use an AR-15 as an example here because of the name of the board. What is the chance that one of us 5668 COAR-15 members will actually use a personally owned AR-15 this year in an emergent self defense situation? Granted there are those of us that are military/leo/secret ninjas, but for the average joe AR owner, what are the odds? Probably next to none. Especially if you add the stipulation that this scenario couldn't have been resolved by the use of a more PC weapon like a handgun. Does that mean we shouldn't have them? Heck no, because "what if" right? I think they are thinking more along the mindset of better have it and never need it, than need it and not have it.

[Ridge]

If you think an MRAP is only used for travel in mine/IED areas, then ARs are only used for killing people. Perhaps the PD wants one for the same reason we want full autos and suppressors...because we can.

Difference being we do it with our own personal funds. "Because we can" isn't a valid reason when it's everyone else who is paying for it.

[Squeeze]

What a small world. Washington, Iowa is my birth town. Not saying they need an MRAP, but they do have one hell of a meth problem in that area.

[KevDen2005]

We have a Bear Cat...with large talons...it's pretty neat. It took some fire in Castle Rock a couple years ago. MRAP is a little much I would think.

[DFBrews]

Hmm

[blacklabel]

Heck no, because "what if" right? I think they are thinking more along the mindset of better have it and never need it, than need it and not have it.

The what if isn't for floods or a snow storm or getting around after a tornado.

[dirtrulz]

A town of 7000 will likely never have the tax base to actually be able to drive this thing more than a few times a year. Probably in the town parade. You need a cdl to even drive the stupid thing. So top heavy it will tip on a flat corner or by driving up a tall curb. The taxpayers paid a million plus each for these trucks. There are hundreds being scrapped and cut apart in Afghanistan because they dont want to mess with bringing them back. The military way over ordered these things and now have more than they know what to do with. The government waste is just getting to stupid levels.

[Logan]

Hmm

This discussion is going on the in https://www.ar-15.co/threads/129669-New-sheriff thread. Jeffco has had that M113 APC since 2005.