Computer Gurus..........

[BPTactical]

With the end of support for XP (Naturally all 3 of mine are XP machines) what is my best plan? I can't afford a new machine and I am not sure if the ones I have would handle OS upgrades.
Thanks.

[StagLefty]

I've got the same situation Bert. My son says my laptop should be good but it's 10 years old anyway. I've looked at some affordable laptops at Micro Center and may go that way eventually.

[Caithford]

Check the Dell Outlet store. You can get business machines with Windows 7 Pro on them for a reasonable price. They also come with warranties (and warranties can be upgraded). Don't do Windows 8 if you can avoid it, which means avoiding the retail outlets (Best Buy, etc.)

If you can't afford a new machine from the Dell outlet, then you have two options. One you can attempt to upgrade. I'm not sure if you can still find retail Win 7 upgrades, but I'd check newegg.com tigerdirect.com and any other online vendors.

To see if any of your machines can be upgraded, use the Microsoft tool: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=20

The second best option is to save up to replace your machine(s). Put it in your budget asap.

If you can't do either, then you need to make sure you have good commercial (not free) anti-virus software installed, preferably with some sort of heuristics / behavior monitoring, keep the AV up to date, and save up for a replacement.

[merl]

Do the computers have to be connected to the internet or just to each other? If they can be disconnected there is little issue.

You'll be safe for a while, it just means when you hear of the next big exploit in the news it may not get fixed.

[TheWeeze]

Amazon's warehouse deals seem to be a good place to find a good deal on open box or cosmetically damaged computers. I got my Asus there and haven't had a single issue with it. I'd recommend checking here when you're ready for new hardware.

http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=sv_platinum__2?ie=UTF8&me=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&node=3545095011

[kawiracer14]

Desktops can usually be had for less than $500 if you wait a week or two for a deal. I usually use http://www.techbargains.com/ to find stuff.

Remember it's for your business, so it's a write off at least.

[Logan]

It kinda depends on how you're setup and what the function of these machines is. If they are Point of Sale systems, they should be behind a router/firewall and be on a private subnet (ie, 192.168.x.x). This allows an onion-esque level of security in that the first device in the architecture (the router/fw) would have to be compromised before there would be access to the individual machines. This will probably keep you safe from worms, and script kiddie scans which is the most likely scenario. Make sure you keep that router/fw patched; it's your first line of defense. Still run firewalls on the PCs and keep anti-virus software up-to-date. You shouldn't be using POS systems to surf the web or download anything. They're POS systems, not web surfing machines. This is best practice and offers the best way to keep protected. Assuming this model, you downloading something malicious and introducing it into your environment is most likely. Up-to-date AV software is your best defense here (along with common sense - no porn, no file sharing networks, etc. Hopefully you ran updates prior to the XP shutoff deadline. If you're recently patched/updated you should be safe, relatively speaking.

[asmo]

I know you don't want to hear that its time to upgrade the hardware -- but if it can't handle Windows 7 or 8, its probably time.. Dell outlet is a great option - just like the amazon warehouse..

Don't ever expect to get more than 5 years out of consumer hardware. Yes you can do it, but its not usually a good idea.

Now if you *REALLY* cant upgrade the HW, then your other option is to install Linux (like Ubuntu). Its viable if your only doing email and surfing the web..

[Irving]

Nitroxboss on here owns two computer stores in the metro area and can probably help you out. I want to say the name is Action PC.

[Great-Kazoo]

install Vista

Or see trading post, thedave has 1 or 2 more refurb's with 7 installed.
FWIW: there are a load of refurbs on CL.

[buffalobo]

Nitroxboss on here owns two computer stores in the metro area and can probably help you out. I want to say the name is Action PC.

I think Irving is correct.

I had really good experience with them last summer under similar circumstances.

They checked out my old dead laptop(tech spent about an hour trying to revive it) and hooked me up with a used machine with new OS. They kept price under $300 and did not charge me for techs time spent trying to revive old machine or time spent prepping the new used machine.





Lobbed from my electronic ball and chain.

[TFOGGER]

You're in good company, Bert. The IRS has it's ass in a wringer because they didn't complete their upgrades in time. Who could blame them? They only had 4+ years notice of the end of support...

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247634/Update_IRS_misses_XP_deadline_will_spend_30M_to_up grade_remaining_PCs?source=rss_keyword_edpicks&google_editors_picks=true

[ChadAmberg]

Remember just because support is ending doesn't mean its any worse off than the day before. Just no new fixes. But when is the last time you were affected by a bug in Windows? Keep your antivirus up to date and be careful downloading things, and you'll be fine for a while yet.

[USMC_5-Echo]

The first thing to do would be to download the Microsoft upgrade adviser http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=20 and run it on each computer. It's a good piece of software and will tell you if you can run Windows 7 or not, and if not it will tell you exactly where your computer is lacking. This is the cheapest and easiest because it'll give you the best idea of how much money you may need to spend, no need in spending excessive cash if you don't need to. But as it was also mentioned earlier, anything you purchase for your business would be a tax write off for next year. I used this tool for clients over the years when Vista and Windows 7 both came out and it helped to save money. As a professional opinion I wouldn't upgrade your computers to Windows 8 if you can avoid it, you can make it look like XP\Vista\7 but why go through a bunch of extra work when you can use Windows 7.

[cstone]

Mint Linux with Libre Office, Chrome, Opera, and Firefox will do just about anything you do now and will cost you nothing but the time to install. I'm willing to help.

[J]

Meh, Ubuntu > Mint. Mint is great, and based on Ubuntu, but the complete removal of in-place release upgrade support is a killer for me. Stick with one of the flavors of Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Etc if you want to go Linux (which I think is great!). Installing the proprietary drivers, codecs and softwares (read: Adobe) manually is much easier than a full manual upgrade from release to release that Mint makes you do. Ubuntu will do release upgrades in-place and easily.

[merl]

If you are just browsing the web and opening the occasional attachment I agree a linux distro will do ya. If you actually want to use libreoffice to create and already have Office then you'll be probably be disappointed. (at least I have been by the spreadsheet, it works but not the easiest)

[BPTactical]

You guys do realize your speaking a foreign language to me, correct?

[Ridge]

Bert, can you give us the specs on your computers? Go to Control Panel, then system.

We'll need the processor and amount of RAM on the computers to give you an idea of if they are upgradeable or not, and what your options are.

[gnihcraes]

Buy a couple newer dell systems from a local recycle center. I recently bought a Dell quad core for $160. Dual dvd, 250 gig, 4 gig memory. Loaded up windows 7. Just an idea.

[Gman]

You're in good company, Bert. The IRS has it's ass in a wringer because they didn't complete their upgrades in time. Who could blame them? They only had 4+ years notice of the end of support...

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9247634/Update_IRS_misses_XP_deadline_will_spend_30M_to_up grade_remaining_PCs?source=rss_keyword_edpicks&google_editors_picks=true
It's OK. The IRS has a Custom Support Agreement with Microsoft to continue to receive security patches. They used their position to get a hell of a discount compared to what corporate America pays. Can't say "No" to the IRS.
[sheepshagger]


Avoid Vista. Microsoft will kill support for it as fast as they can since it was unpopular. You'll be good on Windows 7 until 1-14-2020.

I've been able to buy HP business model refurbs from Newegg in the past. Got a $1600 retail Elitebook for $600. Couldn't tell the system wasn't brand new. That was 6 years ago. I killed the HDD and swapped it with an SSD and it's still going...better than ever.

Something like this, maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834257844

[cstone]

Meh, Ubuntu > Mint. Mint is great, and based on Ubuntu, but the complete removal of in-place release upgrade support is a killer for me. Stick with one of the flavors of Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Etc if you want to go Linux (which I think is great!). Installing the proprietary drivers, codecs and softwares (read: Adobe) manually is much easier than a full manual upgrade from release to release that Mint makes you do. Ubuntu will do release upgrades in-place and easily.

Agreed, but Mint seems to be more user friendly for non-computer people IMO. I'm on cruchbang right now as I type this. I assume you completely customize your machines for specific uses and run your web servers in RAM only.

Bert, try one machine on Linux. If you like it I can move the others over for you. Its as complicated or simple as you want it to be. Do you have your data backed up? If not, pick a machine and I can back it up for you before installing whatever you want.

[BPTactical]

Is Linux something I can load without being a computer engineer?
Realistically I do e mails, Web surf, download product info and research , a bit of word processing is about it.
Not a gamer or video watcher.

[merl]

That you can do with linux just fine. Yes it is something you can load without much knowledge.

[TFOGGER]

Ubuntu's in place upgrades came back to bite me on my 4 year old laptop. something in the update broke the driver for the wifi card between versions. Still playing with ndiswrapper to see if I can fix it.

[sportbikeco]

Don't screw with Linux, you will be way out of your element.

I bought a Toshiba laptop at micro center for $300 for my girl at Christmas. I'd start shopping there or check slickdeals.com for a decent deal and read the comments so you know what you are getting.

You could build a decent simple PC desktop for a few hundred bucks that would smoke what you have now and last a lot longer then a laptop of the same price.

[cstone]

Is Linux something I can load without being a computer engineer?
Realistically I do e mails, Web surf, download product info and research , a bit of word processing is about it.
Not a gamer or video watcher.

Unless you are working on some cutting edge hardware or you need to do something that is really unique, Linux is a great OS for most users. For the most part you can set it and forget it. I check updates everyday, but I'm sort of anal that way. As different software maintainers get around to patching, rewriting, or upgrading packages and get those into the repositories, the updates are pretty routine. Linux will do everything you listed and it can do much more if you ever really wanted it to do that.

If you keep your data updated, you can run just about any OS, even WinXP. Just get used to wiping and reloading your hard drive periodically.

If you want to play with Linux, find out if your computer will boot up from a CD/DVD drive. Unless your computer is very old (more than five years old) it should. Pick a Linux distribution (distro). A good index of distros is http://distrowatch.com/ Most distros now have a live CD version which you can burn to a CD/DVD. Put the CD/DVD into the drive and power up the computer. Most distros will self configure for your hardware, but some will work better than others. There are plenty of users who have given up running their OS from a hard drive and only run it from the CD/DVD while keeping their data on an internal HD or USB drive.

If you would like, I could bring a couple of distros I already have on CD over and leave them for you to play with. They only cost me the price of a blank CD/DVD which is pennies. You are welcome to them.

[gos]

I'd buy a bare-bones dell for $329 and re-use your current monitor, that'll be easiest.

[dirtrulz]

Why are people freaking out over this. Just keep running what you have. Most of the updates you download from Microsoft are crap you dont need anyway. Its not like your computer is just going to stop working. Get a good antivirus, like you should regardless, and be happy you dont have to use windows 7. Its Y2K all over again.

[merl]

Why are people freaking out over this. Just keep running what you have. Most of the updates you download from Microsoft are crap you dont need anyway. Its not like your computer is just going to stop working. Get a good antivirus, like you should regardless, and be happy you dont have to use windows 7. Its Y2K all over again.

Hype
You are safe until the next exploit is found but then you are screwed. Good time to plan a migration

[USMC_5-Echo]

Why are people freaking out over this. Just keep running what you have. Most of the updates you download from Microsoft are crap you dont need anyway. Its not like your computer is just going to stop working. Get a good antivirus, like you should regardless, and be happy you dont have to use windows 7. Its Y2K all over again.

If this is all hype then why don't you run Windows 95 or even 3.1 maybe? This is a security risk because as time goes on no one will be fixing the holes. Yes a good firewall and/or antivirus will work for awhile however security should be completed in layers and not at a single point of failure.

[Zundfolge]

Why are people freaking out over this. Just keep running what you have. Most of the updates you download from Microsoft are crap you dont need anyway. Its not like your computer is just going to stop working. Get a good antivirus, like you should regardless, and be happy you dont have to use windows 7. Its Y2K all over again.

^This

Hell I still have XP machines here at the office running SP1 and they haven't burst into flames or been hijacked by Russians or Nigerians yet.

[Musashi]

You know you can check out Newegg also for refurbs for less than $500 Bert - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100019095%204016&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&SrchInDesc=windows%207&Page=1&PageSize=20

I would avoid Vista like the plague [Walk]

[MED]

Depending on your browsing habits and awareness, you can stay on XP. However, the vulnerabilities will stack up and increase your exposure to an exploit, and there are numerous attack vectors that antivirus does not detect. I certainly wouldn't keep anything private on an unsupported PC unless it is locked down in a secure zone. A really good option is using a bootable Ubuntu CD, and bring up an OS for browsing.

I use Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Short for Long Term Support). With Ubuntu, you can be on the cutting edge with biyearly releases and time limits to update or you can choose LTS, which is a version supported for five years so you can develop applications knowing the OS is supported for a long time.

I use Ubuntu 12.04 LTS at home and work with windows applications installed in Wine so I can run them in my native Linux environment. I do keep a Windows VM installed in VirtualBox to run some applications that won't load in Wine. However, system security is my job so I prefer the tool set available in a Linux/Unix environment.

Windows is relatively easy compared to Linux, but the difference in performance is staggering.

[colorider]

It's all just a big ol money grab from micorsoft. XP is and was one of their best OS. They are trying to force people into their new crap. Just an opinion

[BPTactical]

Well I am going to have to buy some time. Updated the security (webroot) and I will back up all three machines and sneak up on this.
I would like to play with a Linux and Unbutue machine to see how they work.

[merl]

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/try-ubuntu-before-you-install

[Zundfolge]

I would like to play with a Linux and Unbutue machine to see how they work.

Most Linux distributions allow you to boot to the OS from a "Live CD" and run it from there to play with it before you install it (which will involve erasing and reformatting your hard drive).

That way you can get an idea which flavor of Linux you prefer (or want to use Linux at all). Keep in mind that the OS will run slower from the LiveCD so don't hold that against it.

As for the Ubuntu vs Mint debate, I think you'll find Mint easier to use.

[Ripper]

ebay still has some deals on win 7 disks with COAs

[Danimal]

If you could post your specific computer specs a very accurate solution could be given. Some linux versions are light and fast, others will be slow and unusable on a machine with too old of hardware. It would be very easy to swap one computer over to a new OS, and really if you want to get into it I am sure a couple of us on here could walk you through the install process and any other recommended changes. But the first step is to select one of the machines that you want to try out and list the specs accurately. This is what you do to get your specs:

Right click on the "My Computer" icon on the desktop and select "Properties". This should list your processor and RAM. Also the size of your hard drive is useful.

With this information a more accurate solution could be given because there is quite a range of hardware that was used while XP was installed.

[dirtrulz]

only an idiot keeps anything private on a computer thats hooked to the net. Everything can be hacked. Untill the programs and systems I use wont work on my old computer I see no reason to switch. That is why you cant still run windows 95 or 98.

[BPTactical]

Ok, here we go:
All machines are running XP Service Pack 2
Specs are pulled from: My Computer-Properties and: C Drive-Properties

Machine 1 is a build I had done close to 8 years ago, doesnt get much use:
Desktop
AMD Athlon @ 1.29 GHz 1.5 GB Ram (On start up I get a screen similar to a BIOS screen that says the processor and 512MB RAM)??
NTFS
32.5GB Used
116GB Free

Machine 2 is the most used:
Laptop
Dell Inspirion 6400
Intel T1350 @ 1.86 GHz 1.99GB RAM
NTFS
13.5GB Used
98.2GB Free

Machine 3 is kept in my shop for work stuff:
Laptop
HP 6400
Intel T2400 @ 1.83GHz 2.00 RAM
NTFS
36.8GB Used
32.2GB Free

[james_bond_007]

Well I am going to have to buy some time. Updated the security (webroot) and I will back up all three machines and sneak up on this.
I would like to play with a Linux and Unbutue machine to see how they work.

Two other options to consider if you want to TRY out Linux w/o buying new H/W.
1) DUAL BOOT - If you have enough space on your HD, you can set up a Linux boot partition in addition to Windows (i.e. you have both on one disk). Then at boot time, you select to run either Windows or Linux
2) EXTRA HD - You can either swap out your HD with a new one, and put Linux on the new one to try it out or boot from a USB HD with Linux on it (A bit slower overall due to USB, but functionality is the same).

These options will allow you to "fiddle" with Linux , not have to buy new H/W to try things out, and still allow you to go back and forth to Windows .

[def90]

Your XP machine will continue to work fine.. The issue you may run into is if you add any new hardware or software to it down the road, a driver may not exist for it. Depending on what you use your computer for you may likely be able to get something for a few hundred bucks. Most people over buy when they get a computer and then use it for nothing but surfing the web which any $200 tablet can do. If all you are doing is Quickbooks or accounting for your business and web surfing you can get away with the most basic bare bones computer out there.

For now.. just keep using what you have until the day comes when you run into a driver issue and are forced to change though I doubt that will even happen, it is more likely that the drive will crash 1st.

[Danimal]

Ok, here we go:
All machines are running XP Service Pack 2
Specs are pulled from: My Computer-Properties and: C Drive-Properties

Machine 1 is a build I had done close to 8 years ago, doesnt get much use:
Desktop
AMD Athlon @ 1.29 GHz 1.5 GB Ram (On start up I get a screen similar to a BIOS screen that says the processor and 512MB RAM)??
NTFS
32.5GB Used
116GB Free

Machine 2 is the most used:
Laptop
Dell Inspirion 6400
Intel T1350 @ 1.86 GHz 1.99GB RAM
NTFS
13.5GB Used
98.2GB Free

Machine 3 is kept in my shop for work stuff:
Laptop
HP 6400
Intel T2400 @ 1.83GHz 2.00 RAM
NTFS
36.8GB Used
32.2GB Free

The Screen is a motherboard post screen and you can disable it in BIOS if you would like. You will get the best life out of your machine if you go with a light weight distribution of linux (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/6-lightweight-linux-distributions-give-pc-lease-life/). It will feel like a new computer. As with all new things there will be a learning curve to using it, and that is why I would recommend xubuntu or lubuntu. They have big support communities with forums so that you will be able to get quick help if you need or want to change something. Installing it and basic function of either OS is very easy and you will be able to get right back to your normal activities. But installing new programs is a lot different, but in a more secure way. You will use the software center on the machine to search out and install various programs instead of downloading random files off of the internet. That is the biggest difference that I can see causing some problems right off of the bat. But once you get the hang of it, you will see that there are vast libraries of software that is constantly screened for problems that will allow you to find a free solution for your computer.

I would recommend a clean install. Older versions of Windows do not like GRUB loader and can cause boot errors if you try a dual boot because the linux boot file (grub) is installed into the Windows boot file and is supposed to point to the windows boot file after you select it, but if there are any problems during install, or the boot loader is not a simple recognized configuration, windows will not boot when selected and it is a bitch to fix. So I would recommend avoiding this problem all together and just doing a fresh install.

You could buy a new HDD for about $50 and install it on that, or you could format your old drive and install over your old data. Either is very easy. Here are the basic steps that you are looking at:

1) Download the OS .iso file of your choice. This machine will need a CD / DVD burner and software to burn the iso file.
2) Burn the disk image onto a new CD or DVD (I would google burning ISO files to make sure you do it right because it needs to be bootable)
3) Insert the disk into the CD drive on the computer you want to change and restart it.
4) It should ask if you want to boot from CD, select "Yes"
Note: if it does not ask to boot from CD, then you will need to select this in BIOS. You do this by restarting the machine and during the post screen for the motherboard hit the Delete key. Then you need to select your CD drive to boot from.
5) Now the OS should boot from your CD rom drive. It will be slow because CDROM is slow, but you just need to follow the steps carefully and select "Format entire volume" and install the OS. Again, you can install side by side for a dual boot, but it is useless in this case because you are trying to mitigate your risk for using an unsupported OS. Dual boot with older windows versions is really a pain and should be avoided unless you have a very specific need for both being installed.
6) The installer should do the rest. Another thing to note is that you will need a password. It will ask for it all the time. Linux systems are platforms built around multiple users and security. They are very secure in comparison to windows. And every time you install anything it will prompt you for your user or "sudo" password.

[Zundfolge]

Ok, here we go:
All machines are running XP Service Pack 2
Specs are pulled from: My Computer-Properties and: C Drive-Properties

Machine 1 is a build I had done close to 8 years ago, doesnt get much use:
Desktop
AMD Athlon @ 1.29 GHz 1.5 GB Ram (On start up I get a screen similar to a BIOS screen that says the processor and 512MB RAM)??
NTFS
32.5GB Used
116GB Free

Machine 2 is the most used:
Laptop
Dell Inspirion 6400
Intel T1350 @ 1.86 GHz 1.99GB RAM
NTFS
13.5GB Used
98.2GB Free

Machine 3 is kept in my shop for work stuff:
Laptop
HP 6400
Intel T2400 @ 1.83GHz 2.00 RAM
NTFS
36.8GB Used
32.2GB Free
Egad ... and I thought I was running some crappy old computers :p

If at all possible you might want to invest in some new hardware.

[Danimal]

I see a lot of people posting that there is nothing to worry about when using unsupported OS, but that is not true. Using an unsupported OS goes way beyond not getting new software, or security patches. They quickly become targets and will have mal-ware, ad-ware and spyware attacks because they are vulnerable and it is only a matter of time before they are just not used. Currently millions of people still use XP, and criminals know this and they have had a while to figure out the best ways to get in and around the systems. It is not like the world will end overnight, that is true; but someone soon will have access to the information on your computer. If you don't have personal or financial information, and plan on never logging into your bank accounts or purchasing anything online from that machine again, then you will be fine and will probably not notice anything. Otherwise I would recommend that you start planning on a new machine, or upgrading your OS.

[Zundfolge]

I see a lot of people posting that there is nothing to worry about when using unsupported OS, but that is not true. Using an unsupported OS goes way beyond not getting new software, or security patches. They quickly become targets and will have mal-ware, ad-ware and spyware attacks because they are vulnerable and it is only a matter of time before they are just not used.

I see that point, but like I've said I've been running XP machines for the last few years that aren't updated beyond SP1 and have never had any problems with those machines. (note that BP's machines are running SP2 so its already as though those machines have been abandoned by Microsoft since mid 2008 when SP3 came out).

If you're running an XP machine, you're likely going to be just fine for the next few years (assuming you're running good anti-virus software and not doing stupid things). Don't worry about replacing your OS and start saving toward a new machine because frankly even if you put Windows 7 or 8 or even Linux on those old machines they're still old and even simple "surf/email/Word & Excel" type work will become more difficult.

Hell, machines with the specs of BP's machines aren't even going to run simple Flash or HTML5 programs (like YouTube or simple games) smoothly much longer. As the average machine becomes more powerful, the programs used get more complicated (and sometimes bloated) to take advantage of the faster machines. Simple crap I could do a couple years ago on the Pentium 4 machine I have at home just don't work as well today (even with, or maybe even because of the upgrade to Win7).

We're at a big crossroads that most people haven't noticed ... the days of 32bit machines are numbered and you're really much better off upgrading to 64bit machines (quick, before the 128bit machines hit the market in a few years).

[Danimal]

Deleted

[Gman]

The problem with an unsupported OS is not viruses or malware, it's exploits. Some antivirus/antimalware vendors can try to run interference to stop some attack vectors, but the vulnerability is still there.

You may not have been compromised as far as you know, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Just read up on the news for what's been going on for the past couple of weeks with the OpenSSL vulnerability known as Heartbleed. You may have been compromised, and it leaves no trace.