I don't understand the popularity of the 300ACC Blackout

[Colorado Osprey]

I don't understand the popularity of the 300ACC Blackout but no popularity for the 6x45

Thinking of income tax return and a way to spend some extra dough.

Over the last 20 years I have contemplated the 300/221 aka 300 Whisper, now the 300ACC Blackout and it always looses out.
The new popular interest in this cartridge has me looking at it again... but I can't see why I would build/buy one.

Just for argument sake, I have wildcat cartridges, so oddballs don't bother me. Having something unique or different has always intrigued me, but it must fill a niche.

Comparing the 300ACC to the 223 the gains are obvious. Energy gains thoughout the range due to heavier bullet. The rainbow trajectory doesn't fix the payoff IMHO. Bullet drops even at 300 yards are double the 223; and further out it looks like a sinking anvil off a high rise building. Switch to sub-sonic and the down range energy is still impressive even at extended ranges, but even with high BC bullets there is almost a meter of bullet drop at 200 yards.; almost 10' at 300 yards.

I do need to clarify that all my guns are primarily hunting guns and defensive guns second. Shots where I hunt are normally over 200 yards.

Which brings me to other comparable that will shoot through the AR platform. Everything a gain over the 223, as well as 6mm or larger to be legal.

There are some cool ones like the 243WSSM that just flat out perform everything else. Proprietary parts, expensive ammo still didn't stop me. This is hands down not in the running for this comparison.
Next are the Grendel and SPC. Yeah, both of these are performers too, but with the larger case, different bolt and different mags and more rare brass, I toss these out too.... well maybe.

The 6x45 just seems to jump to the top of the list over and over. Why is this cartridge not accepted by the public?
Cheap brass, only part change in a standard AR is a barrel.
Energy better than the 300ACC (except at the muzzle-but beat by 50 yards out), flatter shooting than the 223.

Since I already have a 6x45, the 300ACC just doesn't get justified. Maybe because you can buy 300ACC ammo over the counter and you can't with the 6x45. But why? Why did the 300ACC gain any popularity so that ammo is even made? When I first considered this cartridge ammo wasn't available in either cartridge, so that wasn't even in my decision process.

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. I need a niche cartridge between the 6x45 and the 243WSSM, but the 300ACC ain't it...it would only fill the very, very small space between the 6x45 and the 223; in a hole that doesn't really exist for me.

[ray1970]

I can't speak of the 6x45 as I am not familiar with it. Although, if the only part required is a barrel, I might have to do a little research.

I can tell you why the 300 interests me.

Standard bolt, standard capacity in normal 5.56 magazines were big selling points for me. Also, my 300 was put together for the sole purpose of being a short range, CQB type rifle. Just about any shot I would take anywhere in my current urban environment would be under 100 yards or so anyways so the crazy bullet drop at longer distances wasn't a factor for me.

With the heavy, subsonic stuff it would be awesome as a suppressed weapon which I feel was the original purpose behind the round in the AR platform in the first place.

Would I choose it for hunting? No. Would it be my choice for a long range, precision cartridge? Definitely not. Would I use it to take a shot from an upstairs window on a target out in my yard in a SHTF scenario? Most definitely.

[davsel]

Why not just get a .308 AR and call it good?

[SouthPaw]

Why not just get a .308 AR and call it good?

308 does not have a 30 round mag capacity. 300 blackout has always interested me. I like the idea of everything being the same in a standard AR-15 except the barrel. For now my 30 caliber SHTF gun is my PAP M92 with a sig arm brace and ACE folder.

[Colorado Osprey]

I can't speak of the 6x45 as I am not familiar with it. Although, if the only part required is a barrel, I might have to do a little research.

Very old design. Was used for benchrest before the PPC became popular. It still holds some of the best groups ever recorded in benchrest. It is very forgiving and bullet availability is equal to .224 and .308 calibers.

Due to mag length restrictions most only load the 6x45 with 85 grain and smaller bullets. With the drop off in velocity of the VLD bullets, this round shines in bullet weights from 60-85 grains being the lighter bullets.
Comparing the same weight bullets to the .223 since it is using the same case just necked up, a 60 grain .224 shot in a .223 remington compared to the 60 grain .243 the velocity is higher and energy is almost 30% higher. I know it doesn't make sense. Same case, same weight bullet, so why faster? 1st is the larger diameter bullet which lowers perssure on the bullet by giving it a larger diameter to push against. 2nd, a very slight internal capacity gain due to the shorter bullet in the same weight. 3rd is the reduced bearing surface area for the same bullet weight. All of these factors push the 6x45 to a bout a 30% gain over the 223 in energy.

The 6x45 is a very popular varmint and smaller big game species. It has a very large following in coyote hunters. It stops coyotes with authority compared to the 223.

BUT, this doesn't keep going as the diameter increases. Either the cartridges get too big to fit in the mag like the 7mm TCU (7mm/223) or they run out of case capacity to run the velocity high enough, like the 6.5mm/223. In fact the 25/223 is getting close to running out of case capacity to even compare against the .223
This is why the 6.8SPC wildcats are gaining in popularity. The 6mm and 6.5mm versions of the SPC case also interest me, except they can not perform to the 243WSSM at almost the same cost to shoot.

The 6x45 easily shoots out to 600 yards on steel plates while flatter shooting than the 223 and hitting harder without much recoil.

[ray1970]

When I had my Contender I had quite a few "wildcat" calibers. The 7mm TCU and the 30 Herret were two of my favorites for IHMSA.

Never got too much into them in the rifles.

[earplug]

Has anyone compared penetration on common automobile steel/glass and building material between the two cartridges. I'd think the common 55 grain FMJ would work better to punch holes.

[Hoser]

It all comes down to marketing. AAC has done an outstanding job of marketing this "new" caliber.

And, American being Americans think that bigger is better. 45s and 308s is what real men shoot.

Now you can throw a 30 caliber bullet out of a small frame AR by a simple a barrel change and not having to buy an AR-10.

I like it because it is a very easy caliber to suppress. Then again I have been shooting it since it was called the 300 Whisper.

I am in the middle of building an AK in 300 Whisper. Just because I can.

For a pig killing machine, the Wilson 7.62x40 is awesome. Kinda like a Whisper/Blackout on crack.

http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac105/puebloshooter/Reloading%20Stuff/DSC03039.jpg (http://s890.photobucket.com/user/puebloshooter/media/Reloading%20Stuff/DSC03039.jpg.html)

[Dave]

308 does not have a 30 round mag capacity. 300 blackout has always interested me. I like the idea of everything being the same in a standard AR-15 except the barrel. For now my 30 caliber SHTF gun is my PAP M92 with a sig arm brace and ACE folder.

That's actually been a plan of mine, 7.62x39 pistol with the brace and folder for the up close and personal. For me, the only thing I would do 300 blackout in is if/when I start getting NFA items and I do a SBR build with a can and shoot the heavy subsonic loads to replace the Draco with brace. I have thought about going with a .300 AR pistol with brace, but I already have AK's and therefore have the ruskie ammo on hand. 123 gr HP's in MOUT conditions will do the job just fine. I saw Bert putting one of them together when I was dropping a few items of my own off for some work and decided to start with one of them the next time I can find one cheap enough that will ship here with our mag laws.

[20X11]

Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong.... in a hole that doesn't really exist for me.

300 BLK isn't for everyone. You either like or you don't. There is no "right" or "wrong"...only fun. I can justify MY 300 BLK...I would not attempt to justify YOURS (or lack thereof).

It's all good...it's the same platform...just a few oddities differentiate each caliber.

But for God's sake...STOP LOOKING IN THE WRONG HOLES.

[nisils14]

Hoser hit it on the head, what was once a wildcat cartridge is now a commercially available caliber to buy due to AAC's involvement and that definitely plays into 300BLK's popularity. While 300BLK isn't a ballistic monster compared to other AR15 cartridges, I think it makes for it in versatility. It uses standard AR parts, suppressor friendly, efficient in short barrels and 30cal bullets allow a wide range of bullet choices. It'll have similar ballistics with 7.62x39 on supersonic ammo. Go heavy and it'll have subsonic ammo that cycles, try that with 5.56 or any of those hot rod cartridges. IMO, it shines as a home defense round but I think you could poke at some whitetails with some 110-125 grainers within it's ranges. People use 300BLK on hogs all the time. There's a video of Travis Haley going 700m on a man sized target, so I'm assuming it's reasonably accurate for long range use. It wouldn't be my first choice but it's there. All in all one could say that it's a jack of all trades master of none kind of cartridge

[Monky]

If you check out the 300blk forums there are actually quite a few who use it for hunting. The lighter bullets like the 110-125g barnes and hornady seem to be beast at putting down hogs... from an AR platform.

I have mine for the fun they are suppressed. Triggerhappy is to blame. He's a bad influence. Shot a few rds of his 300 suppressed and you literally only hear the bolt slap.. it was great.

My SBR's are 300blk. I don't intend they'll ever be used for long range.. that's why i'm building a DMR.. and I have a .50 for whatever won't fall down with that.

I don't hunt, it's too damn cold in this state during hunting season for me. I used to think it was cold when it was 50 in the winter.. I'm recovering from that..still. But after reading about it, and shooting it... I think it's an ideal round for what I would ever use it for.

[MarkCO]

It seems to me that there are a lot of answers to the OP.

1. Americans tend to dislike metric rifle calibers. That is waning a bit, but it has historically been true.

2. Not many people "need" a flat shooting, hit past 200 yards with humane killing energy levels on game in an AR platform.

3. AAC MARKETED the heck out of the 300BO. They essentially paid a few top shooters to win matches with it and supplanted some other cartridges in development at the same time. When you put a LOT of product into the hands of gunwriters and have SF guys follow up with them and tell them how much they like it...that tends to work in America.

I like my 16" and 10" 300BOs. I'll never shoot them as much as .223 for a variety of reasons, but they do fill a few little niches well. Frankly, the "average shooter" can not get anymore range than 100 yards from their skillset anyway. The VAST majority of deer and hogs, especially in the East and South, are shot at distances well under 100 yards, so the 30 caliber bullet is not bad at all. So too, some states allow "pistols" with some restrictions that allow a .300BO even though a .223 rifle would not be allowed.

Now to the 6x45, it has great appeal and personally, in a few years, there may a vaild debate between the 6x45 and the 6.5PCC as to which one can be considered the ultimate do-all caliber in the AR-15 platform. Both can outperform the .223 and .300 BO in almost every measurable metric. But interest and support for both are still pretty niche. IMHO, if someone enterprising and well funded had gone after a 6mm or 6.5mm based on the .223 case with just a barrel swap, named it well and marketed it in the manner that AAC did with the 300AAC, the story might be very different.

When I look at my purposes/goals and the AR-15 platform, the only cartridge in a normally operating AR-15 that need a different bolt and mags and still interests me is the .450BM. I have sold off my .204 Ruger, .308 platform ARs and gone .223, 300BO and .450BM. The 300BO does not do enough to be truly considered an adequate filler between the .223 and .450BM. Who knows, after enough work with the 6.5PCC and maybe another dabble with the 6x45, I might just get rid of the 16" .300BO.

[SouthPaw]

That's actually been a plan of mine, 7.62x39 pistol with the brace and folder for the up close and personal. For me, the only thing I would do 300 blackout in is if/when I start getting NFA items and I do a SBR build with a can and shoot the heavy subsonic loads to replace the Draco with brace. I have thought about going with a .300 AR pistol with brace, but I already have AK's and therefore have the ruskie ammo on hand. 123 gr HP's in MOUT conditions will do the job just fine. I saw Bert putting one of them together when I was dropping a few items of my own off for some work and decided to start with one of them the next time I can find one cheap enough that will ship here with our mag laws.

It is a sweet setup. Fits inside a backpack when folded up.

[XC700116]

In reality, I have one because I can, there's no logical justification for me beyond, it's another fun toy. I'm actually working on a more precision load using a now discontinued 125 gr Berger OTM that shows promise, that I plan to run at one of Hoser's prairie dog matches. It's all for fun and nothing else.

The 2 biggest things I really like (neither of which am I utilizing right now) about 300 BLK is the efficiency in short barrels, and running them suppressed, for that combo (short and quiet) I don't think there's much else out there than can hit those marks and put as much energy on target with the retention of std mags, bolt, etc using an AR15 platform in a CQB type scenario. That said, 99.9% of the public will never utilize all of those things in real world conditions.

I also have a 25 DTI (6.8 w/30° shoulder necked down to .257), it's a NASTY little zipper for large varmints and whitetails. It's all in what you want, and the application of it. The 6X45 is one I'm also interested in and have thought about giving up either the DTI or the 300 BLK for that, but then again, I may just add it to the fleet sometime down the road, because I like stuff that's a little different from what everyone else on the line is shooting.

[68Guy]

I agree with Hoser that the start of this thread appears to have the "square peg - round hole" mindset. The cartridge wasn't designed to be the end all, be all at long distances so if hunting at the range is what you really intend to use an AR platform for, then there are better options than the 300 BLK or even miniscule 5.56. You can keep the AR lower you already have an go with a stronger cartridge like the 6.8 SPC (you DID notice my logon name right?) or6.5 Grendal. As for .308, well then you are buying a completely different rifle as that round cannot fit the magwell of your standard AR. So what IS a 300 BLK for then? It excels at suppressed fire with really short barrels and for 150yd and closer hunting using supersonic rounds. Plus it can use standard .308 or AK bullets and you can make endless brass using 5.56 brass! You can go from shooting really quiet subsonic rounds in CQB to taking that 150 yard shot with a Barnes TAC-TX 110 grain with nothing but a mag change. And yes, this round has way more energy out of a 9" barrel than a 5.56 out of a 16" carbine because the round was designed to burn all the powder in the first 9 inches. So NOT one size fits all for all uses but darn good at what it was designed for.

[MarkCO]

...because the round was designed to burn all the powder in the first 9 inches.

I am pretty sure that is not correct. With some powders this occurs, but it is a function of the powder/pressure curve of the chosen powder, not the "design" of the cartridge. I am not advocating slower powders or faster powders, just pointing out that the "ideal" window is based on several factors. A 20" rifle length gas barrel can also suitably run 300BO, as could a blow-back 4" barrel if one was so inclined. There are people experimenting with 150 grain .30 caliber slugs at 2650 fps out of AR-15s with 18" barrels and significant changes in the BCG/gas system, so let's not shut the door yet. :)

[AKA-Spook]

There are people experimenting with 150 grain .30 caliber slugs at 2650 fps out of AR-15s with 18" barrels and significant changes in the BCG/gas system, so let's not shut the door yet. :)

what caliber?

[balyon885]

I am pretty sure that is not correct. With some powders this occurs, but it is a function of the powder/pressure curve of the chosen powder, not the "design" of the cartridge. I am not advocating slower powders or faster powders, just pointing out that the "ideal" window is based on several factors. A 20" rifle length gas barrel can also suitably run 300BO, as could a blow-back 4" barrel if one was so inclined. There are people experimenting with 150 grain .30 caliber slugs at 2650 fps out of AR-15s with 18" barrels and significant changes in the BCG/gas system, so let's not shut the door yet. :)

Links to any of this? I like my current reloads with this bullet weight, wouldn't mind reading more about this.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[jerrymrc]

I have a 300BK. I like it. Fun to shoot and since I load .223 and .308 and X39 it did not take a big investment. At first blush it is a reliable alternative to an AR in X39. <200 yard performance is good. The suppressed side is a big plus.

I also have a FAL in 7.62X25 that weighs 5.8lbs. I spent $600. When I built it .308 was $129 per k and it cost $350 to build a normal one. I was asked why I did this in 2003. Because I can was my reply and I think this applies to the 300BK. It has become a very popular toy.

As I get older I understand the "different strokes for different folks" thing. Years ago I could not understand some peoples fascination with many calibers. As long as one can load there own ammo for whatever they choose then more power to them just don't bitch when you find that 6.66X49 ammo is not available at wal-mart. I don't shoot 9mm but I love my 38 super.

And if I get bored with 300BK then $200 or less turns it back into a normal AR but since it seems to be a tack driver @ 100Y I think not.

Just some thoughts on the subject.[Flower]

[Irving]

Saw this today. Sorry if a repost.

r4edDJLuErg

[Hound]

Unless you are on an adrenaline high, it looks like you are still going to be out of the fight from that video. I see a lot of broken ribs and possible internal bleeding from that punch. It will be interesting to see what the clay says.

[lc_nab]

Like Hound said, it might not kill you on the spot, but it will definitively take who ever gets shot with it, out of the fight, or at least create a window of opportunity.

But man, what a punch... I would not want to be hit by such round... Body armor or not...

[Monky]

Someone should post the vid that twang n bang did w/ the 110g Barnes that went through the vest... Iirc he shot it with his suppressor on... I'm just on my phone and lazy ATM


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[XC700116]

Someone should post the vid that twang n bang did w/ the 110g Barnes that went through the vest... Iirc he shot it with his suppressor on... I'm just on my phone and lazy ATM


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDTvbzExaPI

[Colorado Osprey]

Y'all know IIIa is only rated for pistol ammo right? Standard load 223 rounds, even soft point will blow through 3-4 panels of IIIa and barely slow it down.

I would expect any rifle round including pistol rounds in a rifle to defeat IIIa armor.

[Squeeze]

I had a fascination with the 300 AAC Blackout for quite a while. I was going to build my AR pistol in this caliber, then after looking at the bigger picture...I decided against it. Here's why: I don't like fighting the .308 guys for bullets to reload, powder is hard to come by, commercial blackout ammo is pricey, and they don't make a 110 / 125 grain FMJ plinking bullet for reloaders. Perhaps if this all changes, I'll revisit the idea of getting a blackout upper, but until then, I'll stick with 5.56. Don't misunderstand me, I do like the cartridge, they just need to start making the ammo & components more available.

[Hoser]

they don't make a 110 / 125 grain FMJ plinking bullet for reloaders.

I have used lots of these. Runs in semi and full auto. Not as accurate as a jacketed bullet, but for plinking inside of 100 yards they are fine.

http://www.XtremeBullets.com/30-s/48050.htm

[DangerLee_Industries]

300 blk is my most favorite suppressed SBR hands down. It always boils down to Ford, Chevy, Dodge and the tool for the job in my book. Obviously you have been shooting a while so good luck in your decision![Beer]

[68Guy]

I am pretty sure that is not correct. With some powders this occurs, but it is a function of the powder/pressure curve of the chosen powder, not the "design" of the cartridge... :)

Yes it actually IS correct. The round was designed specifically for a short barrel. And that is why you get no flame at all out of a 300BLK SBR but you get a whopper of one out of a 5.56 short. 5.56 was designed for a hot rifle powder and a 20" barrel.

[buckshotbarlow]

CO, only reason why i'm on the 300wtf is because of the stamp. If you get a stamp, then you can't beat it period. IMHO, it's a 45acp, that just works in an ar. Super quiet, and is a kick in the pants to shoot. I loved my ar so much that I built a bolt gun for it so it would have a buddy while sleeping in the safe. Now, for pest control, nothing better than a real big bullet moving slow and quiet to thump em out to 100yds. I limit my subsonic range to around 150yds. I have played with the 110's hotrodding em, while fun, it's not my 6x45's...

So in conclusion:
300wtf for quiet varmint control out to 150yds
6x45 for everything else