View Full Version : Looking to borrow/rent an auger to dig 7 holes
I don't mind manual labor but I have 7 holes to dig for my deck project that need to be 36" deep. Not my kind of fun!
anyways, let me know if you have access to, know the best place to rent, or would let me borrow your auger to dig these things.
id be more than happy to pay your for your time/rental, beer, trade etc.
call before you dig folks have already come out, so I am ready to go.
also looking for the best price or alternatives on the tubes needed to pour the cement into for posts.
thanks guys
Most deck caisons only use sono tube if they're sticking out above ground. Unless your jurisdiction requires them you can do without.
hghclsswhitetrsh
04-17-2014, 06:28
Home Depot rents em cheap. If you need a dummy to run the other side of the auger I'd be more the happy to come by.
Home Depot rents em cheap. If you need a dummy to run the other side of the auger I'd be more the happy to come by.
Ill stop by today and see what they rent them for. Probably next week I'll get to digging. I'll give you a shout, thanks for offering
Most deck caisons only use sono tube if they're sticking out above ground. Unless your jurisdiction requires them you can do without.
Is it an issue with ground movement and freezing and what not? Everything I read/heard was to use these tubs
Ask yourself
How is cardboard going to prevent freezing and ground movement.
Ask yourself
How is cardboard going to prevent freezing and ground movement.
Better.. ask a structural engineer. He can tell you exactly how a rigid cylinder prevents horizontal shift (hint.. it has to do with physics -- which is like magic, but with math).
Its a deck on a house. All that physics when applied with logic would tell me the wood will rot out before the posts shift if properly built with or without the tubes.
Eventually that sono tube will break down and rot away. I've only used it to bring caisons above grade or if my hole got to big because of roots, large rocks, etc....
A lot of jurisdiction I work in require a 12" caison. If outside of permit I would do a minimum of 8" and if you can bell out the bottom it helps from heaving.
rockhound
04-17-2014, 17:57
Most deck caisons only use sono tube if they're sticking out above ground. Unless your jurisdiction requires them you can do without.
this is no longer correct, code will read something like this depending on your county
there will be a frost line measurement 12-48 inches typically dependent on elevation etc. (this measurement is below undisturbed or natural soil) if you are digging into ground that was just left over from the excavation of your home then you will need to go deeper in some instances to reach "natural soil" because the uncompacted crap from the last excavation is not strong enough to hold a serious deck. for a deck that are foot off the ground it probably wouldn't matter, but the code does not necessarily take that into account.
the posts cannot contact the ground and typically must clear the grade by no less than 6 inches (this is where your tube comes into play) the concrete will raise the post above grade
the posts must be pressure treated
the post must have a post base that meets your county or city codes
the posts in this photo are done correctly and passed inspection last year:
43743
there may be some places you can allow the post to contact the ground, but i am unaware of any location in colorado that would allow this anymore. maybe Phoenix
EvilRhino
04-17-2014, 18:02
When I did our deck, I rented the one on an arm and basically a 1 man thing. Tows like a trailer. Just make sure you can get it through the fence. 43745 Potato quality photo.
Not sure what's "incorrect". I stated "unless your jurisdiction requires them", because some might. I don't pretend to know them all. South metro areas, where I do the majority of my work, does not. No contact and 1" standoff only requirement.
rockhound
04-19-2014, 07:54
The code is the fact that the posts must be elevated above the wet earth
This would require the tube to accomplish this
The tube does not necessarily have to be used all the way down the hole
The piers in the photo only used about 15 inches of tube the rest of the 4 foot deep hole was simply filled with concrete and rebar reinforcement
rockhound
04-19-2014, 07:56
Wow that was weird I tried to correct a spelling error and it posted the errent post twice
jerrymrc
04-19-2014, 08:05
Wow that was weird I tried to correct a spelling error and it posted the errent post twice
fixed
"This would require the tube to accomplish this"
Done arguing. 1" standoff accomplishes this also does it not? I will continue to build them using the 1" stanfoff Simpson supplies with their post bases until the inspectors, where i work, tell me I can't.
rockhound
04-19-2014, 11:24
not arguing at all.
[Beer]
Anyways, where I am at in Adams county, does anybody know whether I need these tubes and how far above ground? I am planning on tubes no matter what. I am planning on 8 4x4s and tubes for each except 1 that will need to be on the center of the pad, and one that will be on the center outer edge of the pad. I'm still planning on digging that hole, but will have to half moon it over the pad partially so it works with the dimensions of the deck.
i am thinking the 8" auger and 8" tube will be enough support with that many 4x4s.
any other advice appreciated.
rockhound
04-21-2014, 09:03
how far above grade is your deck?
overall dimensions of your deck?
again you will need to ask your building department, generally the concrete would be 6 inches above grade and your posts on top of it.
i dont like to run the tubes all the way into the ground, you wind up with a larger hole than you need and a loose fit for the posts until the earth settles back in around it, if you use the tubes at the top 15 inches of the hole then when you pour the concrete it will fill the entire hole and makes for a more stable pier.
I think it will end up 15" above grade.
overall dimensions are 10' away from house and 20' wide along the house.
where do I find my building department? Is that a city or county thing?
http://www.brightonco.gov/222/Permitting
Okay thanks. Funny it doesn't mention decks specifically though.
It will fall under general building permit. A lot of building departments will have a "cheat sheet" for decks. Don't need detailed drawings. Will give basic deck construction and you fill in sizes, spacing, fasteners and materials being used. You will also need to have a general site plan with measurements to property lines so zoning can check setbacks.
rockhound
04-22-2014, 15:48
depending on the county you may actually need a real survey. my county does, also requires plans and elevations, requires copies of stair designs etc.
homeowners permits also may require a certified copy of the deed in many cases to prove that the owner is actually the one pulling the permit. if you live on a well and septic, you will definitely need a proper survey marking the location of well and septic.
if you call your building department they will have the permit package that you can print off, it will give you the requirements.
also do not dig without having your services located,
Already had services located. No problems with that. Started working on some sprinkler lines tonight. They of course are right in the way.
so, what would be the issues I would run into if I don't pay the city it's BS fees for a stupid as permit so I can do what I want on my own property to my own house? I'm no where near interested in submitting plans or paying any kind of fee or any of that BS.
Penalties can be from a stop work order with double permit fees to tear it off. Take pictures, particularly of the caison depths and framing. Don't piss off neighbors and get your materials moved as soon as posible. Do work after hours and weekends. I have a 30 yard roll off in my drive and the code enforcer has already called (nosing around) claiming they got a call complaining about it. BS. Ask my wife, I haven't done shit around here in years.
Never heard of someone being charged double (but it is in the book) but stop work orders and tear it off (if you can't prove it is to code) are real. Homeowners usually can get by by playing "stupid" with just a "I didn't know and I'll take care of it tomorrow". Good luck.
Can't you have issues when selling the house as well?
rockhound
04-23-2014, 05:49
Penalties can be from a stop work order with double permit fees to tear it off. Take pictures, particularly of the caison depths and framing. Don't piss off neighbors and get your materials moved as soon as posible. Do work after hours and weekends. I have a 30 yard roll off in my drive and the code enforcer has already called (nosing around) claiming they got a call complaining about it. BS. Ask my wife, I haven't done shit around here in years.
Never heard of someone being charged double (but it is in the book) but stop work orders and tear it off (if you can't prove it is to code) are real. Homeowners usually can get by by playing "stupid" with just a "I didn't know and I'll take care of it tomorrow". Good luck.
yep, that is correct
rockhound
04-23-2014, 06:01
Can't you have issues when selling the house as well?
after my life as a contractor (i have actually never stopped, just fixing my own homes and select clients) i have been selling real esate now for about 8 years, I have only heard stories about homes sales that went bad because of permits not being pulled. it can happen, for a small deck off the back of the house, i dont think there would be an issue, the deck we just built last year on my current home (just a long term fix and flip) is 884 sf and over ten feet off the ground, you bet i pulled a permit, the new shop we finished last year, a permit was pulled. tearing out the bath tub and setting a tub replacement shower pan, i did not
our county did not even have a building permit until 1995 so most homes here have had work done without a permit.
denver came out with some stupid rules years ago (not sure if they are still in effect) that if you were remodeling a home in their jurisdiction and were affecting more than 25% of the overall square footage of the home you would have to bring the entire home to code. there are a ton of homes in the older neighborhoods built in the early part of the century that were getting basements finished etc. the owners did not want to do the whole house so they were not pulling permits, there were years where i couldn't pay a customer to pull a permit, they simply could not afford to comply. they have $40K to do a basemnt finish, but in no way could they afford to do the rest of the house.
permits that did get pulled were for 23% of the home and then another 23% until the job was done.
Can't you have issues when selling the house as well?
I, personally, have never heard of a building authority getting in the middle of a real estate sale. That's between the buyer, seller and a home inspecter (and possibly the title company). Anybody here or anybody you know ever check with their building department on permits pulled before buying your house? I never have on the 3 I've bought.
A little off this particular topic but I have few clients, because of these BS lead paint and asbestos laws, want to go with no permit. I prefer to pull permits and normally do but that can cause issues when selling older homes. If you do pull a permit you will be required to test for lead and asbestos (unless you assume it's present and follow containment methods). If you follow the containment methods your good but if you test and it's detected you must now disclose it when selling and now your screwed.
Sounds good guys, thanks for the info.
eneranch
04-23-2014, 09:36
I, personally, have never heard of a building authority getting in the middle of a real estate sale. That's between the buyer, seller and a home inspecter (and possibly the title company). Anybody here or anybody you know ever check with their building department on permits pulled before buying your house? I never have on the 3 I've bought.
No one will get in the way of the sale for Permit issues, but it could cause the Buyers to panic or at least have second thoughts. I flip 2-3 houses a year & check Permit Histories all the time, it's easy here in EPC. It's what you don't know about that can cause you grief.
Alright, got my cement today, rented the auger, dug the holes all to at least 36". Dirt was actually awesome and it took only about 30 minutes to dig 7 holes.
i bought 48" tubes and most are only 6-8" above the ground. Got rebar for reinforcement. Poured cement in one hole today. Rest go in tomorrow! I got 10" tubes so shouldn't have any problem with these bad boys on my modest deck.
ill get some pics up tomorrow of the progress.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140503_142553_159_zps8ihdu2sm.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140503_142600_722_zpsxninyr6j.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140504_140339_388_zpsgr5ylfhp.jpg
Are those level with each other? Or is it just the picture?
They are all pretty well level. The middle tube next to the cement pad is a monster pain in the butt. I had it up so I could notch it out and butt it flush against the pad then cut it down to height.
plus I'll have 4x4 posts coming up from the anchors and doubling up my joists (one on each side of the 4x4s) and everything will level up exactly. I'll keep updating with pictures as I progress
buffalobo
05-05-2014, 23:10
They are all pretty well level. The middle tube next to the cement pad is a monster pain in the butt. I had it up so I could notch it out and butt it flush against the pad then cut it down to height.
plus I'll have 4x4 posts coming up from the anchors and doubling up my joists (one on each side of the 4x4s) and everything will level up exactly. I'll keep updating with pictures as I progress
Middle? Looks like four corners of a square. [Poke] [fail]
I know what you meant, just ragging ya. Looks great. [Beer]. DYI Rules.
I suspect whatever you have planned will end up level. Get 'er done!
rockhound
05-07-2014, 08:58
the piers dont have to be level with each other as long as you have enough room to adjust the posts to level. you will set the posts in place then mark the level on them and set the beam or joist to that mark. on the post.
That's the plan. I have them all slightly below the pad level just so I have enough room.
rockhound, do you recommend having the deck very very slightly angle away from the house for water runoff? I know I have the gaps between the ducking will allow water to runoff, just wasn't sure what is recommended
Got all the weed block down, rock is down. Next step in cutting the siding off the side of the house! Scary stuff!
rockhound
05-12-2014, 12:20
I you use the flashing we spoke of then angling the deck is not necessary unless you plan on using some of the newer waterproof aluminum decking or something like that designed to create a dry surface below the deck
Okay sounds good. I'll get it as level as I can! When the weather is better, I'll be cutting the siding, getting the flashing installed and then the ledger board.
Im im not worrying about a dry surface below the deck. I've brought in a ton of rock is already down on top of the weed block. The lattice will probably seal everything up but I'm considering having a latched door or something for the boys toy storage or so the dogs can go under and be cool in the summer. But then I wonder about the spiders and everything else that will be living under there and not sure if that would be a safe spot for my son or dogs to be messing around.
Got the ledger board in, flashing installed and caulked, all framing is done.
would be working on installing the decking today but the store didn't have any of the hidden fasteners so I am waiting top I'll they get shipped to me then I can finish the decking.
steps are also on the list. Just need to go get the precut hangers and get them installed. I think I only need 2 steps but 3 will probably be better. Need to measure that out still.
railing is still TBD. Gotta figure out what we want. Thinking Rod iron rails with composite deck on top.
only thing I screwed up on was my length. I was shooting for 20'. But out the center of my post anchors at that distance, so I have about 2.5 inches each side due to that oversight. Not a big deal, just a little more $$ for a couple more decking boards.
couple pics of what it looks like now with decking just sitting on top:
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140518_114430_801_zpso4mx1ur6.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140518_114453_505_zpsnhctmbgc.jpg
jerrymrc
05-18-2014, 17:19
the dog likes it. I will suggest that as low as it is at least some lattice between the deck and ground. Keeps stuff from blowing up underneath and critters from making a home under there this winter. Ask me how I know.[Rant2]
Yeah lattice is last on the list. I think they have plastic stuff that matches the deck or white which would offset it nicely. Wife will ultimately decide I'm sure.
i just need to decide if I want to make a little door in the lattice for access under there. Would only be a few hinges and a latch so I'll probably do it.
Snowman78
05-19-2014, 10:50
Looking good! Why did you decide to do a deck instead of a bigger concrete patio?
"I" liked that idea. "We" said a deck would be nicer. "I" built a deck so that "we" would be happy! [Coffee]
Alright, my versaclip fasteners arrived today and I'll probably start getting everything installed tomorrow.
anybody done the hidden fasteners? I watch a couple youtube videos today, and they look pretty simple. Any tips or things to watch out for?
also, my only concern was that I bought the 200sq ft pack, the video shows to out a clip on every joist, but I wonder if they take into account where a seam is at? I only ask because I'm wondering if I need to skip a couple joists to make sure I have enough clips and also wondering if I should put some deck screws on the seams to make sure they hold down.
my decking is 16' long, so I'll need addition 4' sections and I'll alternate so I don't have just a single seam along a single joist.
rockhound
05-21-2014, 05:57
the hidden clips are not as structural sound as using normal deck screws,
if the seam concerns you you can scab a block in where the seam comes together so that each board is over a full width of lumber.
What does scab a block in mean?
got the first couple boards started today then the weather forced me inside. Hoping to get it finished or close tomorrow.
She is done. Pics don't show the last couple metal rails I added at the corner but that is pretty much what it looks like finished. right now I like the look without the lattice but might add it later. We don't get any trash and tumble weeds in the back so I don't think it will be an issue collecting crap under it.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140531_142253_059_zpswbnrqsdz.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z386/citation10_photos/IMG_20140531_142220_362_zps2drgpbwe.jpg
That's a pretty elaborate step for your dog to use the doggy door. Looks well done.
the hidden clips are not as structural sound as using normal deck screws,
if the seam concerns you you can scab a block in where the seam comes together so that each board is over a full width of lumber.
I ended up skipping a few joists with the hidden fasteners, and added a chunk of 2x4 where the seam was and put an extra fastener on each end so I wouldn't have lifting issues. The spots I skipped I used the gold deck screws at an angle into the groove so they are hidden but still holding everything down.
That's a pretty elaborate step for your dog to use the doggy door. Looks well done.
Anything for those dogs!
Thanks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.