View Full Version : Seattle to increase min wage to $15/hour
Yup, the test city has been approved. Let's see what happens.
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/01/3433227/seattle-15-dollar-minimum-wage/
cfortune
05-01-2014, 15:16
facepalm
BPTactical
05-01-2014, 15:17
The stupid dorks.
I just saw a blurb the other day where the Burger Kings etc that are on bases are closing down due to Oblunders move to increase the MW for Federal contractors. The owners can't afford to pay it.
Seattle right? Let's see, Washington has legal dope now correct? So now every stoner working at McDonald's is going to make 15 bucks per hr.
Nice, a Big Mac will now cost 8 bucks or so.
I'm all for it. When it gets close to what I'm making now I'm going to quit my job and go flip burgers instead. How relaxing and stress free would that be? What? You mean I just have to stand here and cook fast food all day? And you're going to pay me how much? Sign me up.
Watch everything that $15/hour (fast food, labor, other unskilled positions) touches get instantly more expensive.
I'm all for it. When it gets close to what I'm making now I'm going to quit my job and go flip burgers instead. How relaxing and stress free would that be? What? You mean I just have to stand here and cook fast food all day? And you're going to pay me how much? Sign me up.
This! Cuz you know the rest of us are not going to get a raise commensurate with our qualifications.
BPTactical
05-01-2014, 15:25
I'm all for it. When it gets close to what I'm making now I'm going to quit my job and go flip burgers instead. How relaxing and stress free would that be? What? You mean I just have to stand here and cook fast food all day? And you're going to pay me how much? Sign me up.
Orange Junk will not go well on your resume Ray....
Watch everything that $15/hour (fast food, labor, other unskilled positions) touches get instantly more expensive.
This and self serve kiosks just got more cost effective. How about a completely automated taco bell.
This and self serve kiosks just got more cost effective. How about a completely automated taco bell.
Making those unskilled and unemployable now even more dependant on the system.
Teufelhund
05-01-2014, 15:39
Watch everything that $15/hour (fast food, labor, other unskilled positions) touches get instantly more expensive.
And then the idiot Libs (i.e. people who failed Econ 101) will blame it on the "greedy 1% who just want to make poor people poorer."
Jesus-With-A-.45
05-01-2014, 15:40
These liberal motherfuckers are certifiable crazy. I will LOVE watching them descend into madness while they eat there own to survive, or maybe they could just eat all the aborted babies instead of burning them.
America has lost it's fucking mind!
mtnrider
05-01-2014, 15:47
America has lost it's fucking mind!
^ I couldn't agree more.
Orange Junk will not go well on your resume Ray....
Taco Johns will take me.
I can spend all day making those flaming hot Cheetos burritos.
They do realize this is permanent and not a test right? What's their exit strategy if it turns out to be a bad "test"? Do they seriously think they can just take back a few bucks an hour from those workers who have grown accustomed to a certain income during the "test" without some kind of uproar or outright riot?
GunsRBadMMMMKay
05-01-2014, 15:55
They have been talking about doing this for some time. I have heard the cost of living is already pretty absurd in the Seattle area, I'm sure it will be insane once this comes to pass.
... Do they seriously think ...
BINGO!
Some minimum wage worker does NOT understand is, price index will sky rocket after this.
Those who are happy about wage increase think price index will be constant, and their wage is increasing. It is not a "real" wage increase.
Now, if smart CEO and COO of MCD, BK, PZZA, and other places found a great source to significantly reduce the cost, and want to increase the wage for their employees would be a different story.
Madeinhb
05-01-2014, 16:00
And so it begins
Madeinhb
05-01-2014, 16:02
When you can be replaced - you're not worth $15 an hour. We will start seeing these a lot more.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/2uhe6ysu.jpg
Jack in the Box already have some of those. I love it. I know how much it cost for some upgrade (ie cheese, med/lg, etc)
When you can be replaced - you're not worth $15 an hour. We will start seeing these a lot more.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/2uhe6ysu.jpg
blacklabel
05-01-2014, 16:09
When you can be replaced - you're not worth $15 an hour. We will start seeing these a lot more.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/2uhe6ysu.jpg
This. It's going to drive up unemployment and prices.
BPTactical
05-01-2014, 16:10
Read some of the comments on the article.
Idiots.
If that happens here they better never mess up an order ever, especially for the pay they are getting.
Read some of the comments on the article.
Idiots.
I was just about to say the same thing. 47% of the population is chompin' at the bit to double their wage. How does an entry level office person justify working the corporate gig for nearly the same amount as a Taco Bell burrito maker? More of the "They can afford to pay more" mentality.
Read some of the comments on the article.
Idiots.
I haven't read the comments but I can imagine what they say.
Minimum wage does 2 things, it prices the less qualified people out of a job and it increases consumer costs, and that's pretty much all it does. So now we'll have more idiots on welfare and stuff will be more expensive....YEA!!!!
ZERO THEORY
05-01-2014, 16:21
And then the idiot Libs (i.e. people who failed Econ 101) will blame it on the "greedy 1% who just want to make poor people poorer."
Macroeconomics? How dat work?
Great-Kazoo
05-01-2014, 16:21
Some minimum wage worker does NOT understand is, price index will sky rocket after this.
Those who are happy about wage increase think price index will be constant, and their wage is increasing. It is not a "real" wage increase.
Now, if smart CEO and COO of MCD, BK, PZZA, and other places found a great source to significantly reduce the cost, and want to increase the wage for their employees would be a different story.
Pink Slime
I haven't read the comments but I can imagine what they say.
Minimum wage does 2 things, it prices the less qualified people out of a job and it increases consumer costs, and that's pretty much all it does. So now we'll have more idiots on welfare and stuff will be more expensive....YEA!!!!
I believe it has been inferred in this thread, the that is part of the scheme.
Sent via Mobile Work Avoidance Device
speedysst
05-01-2014, 16:27
Hell yeah! Id love to buy a vending machine that serves hot, crappy tacos at just the push of a button!
This and self serve kiosks just got more cost effective. How about a completely automated taco bell.
Zundfolge
05-01-2014, 16:28
Minimum wage does 2 things, it prices the less qualified people out of a job and it increases consumer costs, and that's pretty much all it does. So now we'll have more idiots on welfare and stuff will be more expensive....YEA!!!!
That's by design. Create more dependency on the oligarchs in government and they serfs will slavishly vote (D) and beg for government to become even more bigger and powerful.
Jeffrey Lebowski
05-01-2014, 16:33
This and self serve kiosks just got more cost effective. How about a completely automated taco bell.
Hell yeah! Id love to buy a vending machine that serves hot, crappy tacos at just the push of a button!
Extra big-ass Taco now with more molecules?
They do realize this is permanent and not a test right? What's their exit strategy if it turns out to be a bad "test"? Do they seriously think they can just take back a few bucks an hour from those workers who have grown accustomed to a certain income during the "test" without some kind of uproar or outright riot?
Colorado does it.. the minimum wage here is tied to some cost of living index.. A couple years ago during the crash the minimum wage in Colorado decreased. You also have to remember that very few people are actually paid minimum wage. Most states also have a separate pay rate for those that are classified as tip earners and they are allowed to be paid below minimum wage for this reason.
As for Seattle.. sure decrease minimum wage, business owners fire the couple people that got hired at that level and rehire anew.
ZERO THEORY
05-01-2014, 17:00
That's by design. Create more dependency on the oligarchs in government and they serfs will slavishly vote (D) and beg for government to become even more bigger and powerful.
And circle gets the square.
trlcavscout
05-01-2014, 17:22
He'll if they do that here I will be working minimum wage somewhere, why would I do what I do for just a bit more.
He'll if they do that here I will be working minimum wage somewhere, why would I do what I do for just a bit more.
Then your employer will have a decision to make, give you a raise or watch you go.
Then your employer will have a decision to make, give you a raise or watch you go.
And that is where the rubber meets the road. Over pay the employee and either raise costs/cut corners elsewhere. Let all the qualified people walk and go work an underwhelming job that pays the same. So we'll have big gap of no employees for entry level corporate jobs. That means the next tier up will get those responsibilities put onto them causing more stress and them wanting more money.
I am for sure won't be moving to Seattle WA even if i was offered a good job there.
Last time I've been to Seattle, i had to carry my items with my hand. I didn't want to pay 10cent per bag fee (more like bag tax). I can barely afford a $6.50 wendy's salad, how am I gonna pay for a same item in Seattle?
I am for sure won't be moving to Seattle WA even if i was offered a good job there.
Last time I've been to Seattle, i had to carry my items with my hand. I didn't want to pay 10cent per bag fee (more like bag tax). I can barely afford a $6.50 wendy's salad, how am I gonna pay for a same item in Seattle?
With a minimum wage increase apparently that will put everything within your reach! [Sarcasm2]
And that is where the rubber meets the road. Over pay the employee and either raise costs/cut corners elsewhere. Let all the qualified people walk and go work an underwhelming job that pays the same. So we'll have big gap of no employees for entry level corporate jobs. That means the next tier up will get those responsibilities put onto them causing more stress and them wanting more money.
Yup, the government and assorted imbeciles will have priced the entry-level job into extinction.
kidicarus13
05-01-2014, 19:12
Seattle will be an interesting model to watch fail.
I can see the tours now: "And if you look to your left you'll see the ash field that was once called 'Seattle.'"
Seattle will be an interesting model to watch fail.
The Dems will inject so much money into that city so that way it will appear to not fail.
BPTactical
05-01-2014, 19:23
I can see the tours now: "And if you look to your left you'll see the ash field that was once called 'Seattle.'"
And on your right in the distance, Detroit..
Kraven251
05-01-2014, 19:27
They will leverage all the MJ tax, and make it work.
of course it will destroy the rest of their economy.
Well, we will see a significant proportionality between minimum wage hike vs new unemployment claim numbers soon.
Zundfolge
05-01-2014, 19:34
Seattle will be an interesting model to watch fail.
This could be the silver lining ... Seattle's experience will be enough of a (rhymes with "Buster Duck") that maybe we can kill this minimum wage nonsense once and for all.
This could be the silver lining ... Seattle's experience will be enough of a (rhymes with "Buster Duck") that maybe we can kill this minimum wage nonsense once and for all.
Wishful thinking, but that's working on the assumption that liberals are keen enough on learning that lesson... Scientists have concluded that the logic and reasoning portion of the Liberal Brain is grossly underdeveloped. Look at what they're doing to the school system in America: "Throwing money at the problem isn't fixing it, so we'll just throw more money at it until it gets fixed."
Aloha_Shooter
05-01-2014, 19:51
When you can be replaced - you're not worth $15 an hour. We will start seeing these a lot more.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/02/2uhe6ysu.jpg
I would actually look forward to this. Fewer mistakes in the orders, faster fulfillment. I'm tired of ordering from people who need pictures on the cash register to do their damned job.
I would actually look forward to this. Fewer mistakes in the orders, faster fulfillment. I'm tired of ordering from people who need pictures on the cash register to do their damned job.
And at least there will be an option for "English" and you won't have to repeat yourself 5 times and still get the wrong items.
osok-308
05-01-2014, 20:00
This is great! Maybe some of the libs who were thinking of moving to CO because of legal pot will now travel to WA instead! Maybe there is hope for us after all.
clublights
05-01-2014, 20:04
This is great! Maybe some of the libs who were thinking of moving to CO because of legal pot will now travel to WA instead! Maybe there is hope for us after all.
Hey a silver lining !!!!!! After reading the comments on the article I needed the pick me up LOL
speaking of the comments .. I wonder what it is like to live in a world where all of your critical thinking is on the same level as a drunken 4 year old ?
It's got to be interesting at least.
This is great! Maybe some of the libs who were thinking of moving to CO because of legal pot will now travel to WA instead! Maybe there is hope for us after all.
44253
It won't just be your burgers getting more expensive. Many union contracts have their wages tied to the minimum wage.
Bend over[sheepshagger]
colorider
05-02-2014, 07:33
Boss to workers,," sorry guys but the gubmint now says I have to pay ya $15/ hour. So 1 of ya is getting fired and 1 of ya stays and is going to work 2x as hard ".
My prediction. Seattle will be the West Coast Detroit by 2020.
Well, I just looked this up online.. here is the real deal.. This is only a proposal at the moment and has not been passed into law in any way..
From the "News":
"The mayor of Seattle announced Thursday that he'd developed a plan for a $15 minimum wage that had wide backing from the city's lawmakers, labor leaders and business community.
The proposal unveiled by Mayor Ed Murray would gradually raise the city's minimum wage from $9.32 to $15 over the course of three to seven years, making it the highest city wage floor in the nation. The speed of the hike for individual employers would depend upon how many workers they have and the value of the non-wage benefits they offer.
“Once again Seattle has chosen to collaborate and Seattle workers are going to get a raise,” Murray said at a Thursday news conference, according to the Seattle Times.
Murray's plan is just a proposal for now, and it would require the city council to write legislation and pass it. But the mayor said the plan enjoyed broad support from the commission he'd tasked with developing it, with 21 members of the 24-member committee having agreed to it.
The proposal is least forgiving for large businesses with more than 500 workers, which will have to reach the new $15 minimum by 2017 if they don't give workers tips or health coverage; if they do, they'll be given another year to reach $15. Businesses with fewer than 500 workers will have until either 2019 or 2021 to hit $15, depending on the benefits they offer."
Okay, I see several comments about burgers getting more expensive. There's a larger issue at work. If you give families a little bit more money they are going to compete for the same food, rent, and other consumable items that those of us who make a little bit more do. What it's going to do is D value the work that people have put in to earn more than minimum wage.
I would expect that especially, food, rent, vehicles, will increase in price because there will be more competition on the market with more cash available. Since there won't actually be more milk, vehicles, houses, the price will increase based on the competition for them. The dollar in general will be worth less.
Over a long period of time, the market will correct for this and wages for skilled work will climb. But in the meantime inflation is the only benefit, with Ace small temporary benefit for those who are earning minimum wage. If everyone earned $1 million a year, milk will not be $3.50 a gallon. Milk will be $1000 a gallon.
I know that I am not a very clear writer, but is my thinking off on this?
I know that I am not a very clear writer, but is my thinking off on this?
No..
PS. I hate being called a worker. It makes me think I live in a communist regime. I've busted my ass to get into a solid middle-class lifestyle in spite of the fact that I use my hands for my work. Raising unskilled, easy work to a higher wage makes all my hard work meaningless.
I know that I am not a very clear writer, but is my thinking off on this?
You're right on the money.
Locally - I just got an email from Bennett about a petition to raise the minimum wage here in good ol' Colorado.
... "Throwing money at the problem isn't fixing it, so we'll just throw more money at it until it gets fixed."
Yes. I predict they will pass something that offers a little less than the $15 they're proposing, and when their economy fails, they will insist it was because they did not get the $15 minimum they originally wanted. They will then increase it again.
As Ronin stated, this is their plan, and it has been played many times over because it works - in the sense that they eventually get what they want in spite of the consequences of their failed ideas.
Just got an email blast from Michael Bennet asking me to sign a petition to raise Colorado's minimum wage to $10.10.
It goes on about how a family can't survive on the current $7.25.
When did people start assuming minimum wage jobs are for family bread winners?
Minimum wage jobs are for 16 year olds!
They are a stepping stone toward better paying jobs!
Next, we'll have minimum acceptable cars and housing. No one should have to drive a car worth less than $30K or live in a house less than 2000 sq ft.
No, you start with a beater and an apartment and work your way toward a better standard of living.
Just got an email blast from Michael Bennet asking me to sign a petition to raise Colorado's minimum wage to $10.10.
It goes on about how a family can't survive on the current $7.25.
When did people start assuming minimum wage jobs are for family bread winners?
Minimum wage jobs are for 16 year olds!
They are a stepping stone toward better paying jobs!
Next, we'll have minimum acceptable cars and housing. No one should have to drive a car worth less than $30K or live in a house less than 2000 sq ft.
No, you start with a beater and an apartment and work your way toward a better standard of living.
The "Not fair" motto has been preached for a long time now and it's etched in people's brains. It wasn't fair that lenders gave people terrible loans. The consumer isn't responsible for reading what they're signing or thinking that a $300k house might now be a good idea on a $40k/year income.
Next up, "The rich can afford to pay more taxes" campaign. Get all the lower income bracket to put pressure on successful people to stop being greedy. It's not right that they have 10 pizzas while everyone else gets 1 slice. It doesnt matter how hard that person worked to get to the place he/she is at. That person is deemed "evil" for wanting to keep their own money.
It's snowballing and they keep adding to it. There's a difference of treating people equal and trying to make people equal.
Seatle jobs will be outsourced to the closest cities without that high of a minimum wage; just like American jobs to nations that do them cheaper. Anybody want to go in on a grocery store or mall near Seatle?
Great-Kazoo
05-04-2014, 21:43
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/m/american-patriot-minuteman-rifle-flag-24285668.jpg
SideShow Bob
05-04-2014, 22:00
I would actually look forward to this. Fewer mistakes in the orders, faster fulfillment. I'm tired of ordering from people who need pictures on the cash register to do their damned job.
You do know that the kiosks have pictures on the screens to help prevent you from screwing up your own orders, don't you ? [LOL]
muddywings
05-05-2014, 13:18
There is always someone out there who is a 'one-upper'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/05/california-democratic-rep-lee-ok-with-california-minimum-wage-to-26-hour/?intcmp=latestnews
Rep. Barbara Lee OK with California minimum wage at $26 an hour
California Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee, one her party’s most progressive members, thinks her home state should increase its minimum wage to as much as $26 an hour.
Lee said a few days ago on CNN’s “Crossfire” that she likes the mayor of Seattle’s proposal to increase the city’s minimum wage to $15 an hour, then said she would support such a plan in California without fear of increasing unemployment.
"In California, more than likely from what I remembered, a living wage where people could live and take care of their families and move toward achieving the American dream was about $25, $26 an hour," she told co-host Newt Gingrich, a former GOP House speaker and presidential candidate, as reported by Breitbart.com (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/05/04/CA-Congresswoman-Raise-State-Minimum-Wage-to-26-an-Hour#).
The high cost of living and taxes in California forcing some residents and businesses to leave is well known, with Toyota officially announcing last week its departure for Texas.
Maryland and other liberal-leaning states have recently increased their minimum-wage rates. However, many Republicans and other fiscal conservatives have argued such an increase would result in companies hiring fewer workers. And just last week, the Senate rejected a plan backed by President Obama and fellow Democrats to increase the federal minimum wage.
Appearing with Lee on “Crossfire,” Rep. Andy Harris, R-Md., said he also would back such a huge wage hike in California -- so the lost jobs will go to Maryland and other states across the country.
[ROFL2]
Colorado_Outback
05-05-2014, 13:21
"In California, more than likely from what I remembered...
This bitch doesn't even remember what its like to work for a living. Shocker.
Zundfolge
05-05-2014, 13:25
I'm thinking that its time to start researching stocks in vending machine companies.
Well, everyone is witnessing the end of the "first job" being at a fast food restaurant... They're all going to be replaced by machines that will do their jobs better, and faster. This will catch on in Seattle, and the rest of the country will follow suit at fast food chains around the country regardless of a MW increase or not. Seattle started it.
Madeinhb
05-06-2014, 22:22
Well, everyone is witnessing the end of the "first job" being at a fast food restaurant... They're all going to be replaced by machines that will do their jobs better, and faster. This will catch on in Seattle, and the rest of the country will follow suit at fast food chains around the country regardless of a MW increase or not. Seattle started it.
Let it happen. Then they will see this whole living wage is crap.
rockhound
05-07-2014, 08:54
ok maybe it is time to get serious about moving to another country
ok maybe it is time to get serious about moving to another country
I'm afraid you'll find the situation worse elsewhere.
Another Manchurian Candidate.
I think we have one Rep. in every state and whouse.
It passed, Seattle has a $15.00 min wage.
It passed, Seattle has a $15.00 min wage.
"Fellow Romans, does anyone smell smoke?"
What's normal minimum wage these days? $7.00 an hour?
What's normal minimum wage these days? $7.00 an hour?
Federal law says 7.25, think it's higher in WA state though.
It passed, Seattle has a $15.00 min wage.
I find it amusing that the retards who voted for this have absolutely no grasp of basic economic principles. They probably truly believe that they are going to have all sorts of extra money laying around.
I'd give a dollar to see the looks on their faces when the price of the pot they are smoking doubles overnight to keep up with that kind of inflation.
Won't be overnight really. It's phased in over several years, and smaller businesses have longer to start paying the higher wage, 2 year longer IIRC. Plus, teenagers will have a lower minimum wage. It's going to get confusing in a couple years as a teen working at a large company will have a different minimum wage than an adult at either a large or small business.
Great-Kazoo
06-03-2014, 08:40
I find it amusing that the retards who voted for this have absolutely no grasp of basic economic principles. They probably truly believe that they are going to have all sorts of extra money laying around.
I'd give a dollar to see the looks on their faces when the price of the pot they are smoking doubles overnight to keep up with that kind of inflation.
Why should i work at a warehouse / bank / Dr. Office/ security guard / TEACHER, for $11 when i can make $15 flipping burgers?
Whistler
06-03-2014, 08:40
Sounds like there may be some jobs repairing fast food kiosks opening up soon.
Why should i work at a warehouse / bank / Dr. Office/ security guard / TEACHER, for $11 when i can make $15 flipping burgers?
That is my biggest problem with these high targets for minimum wage. You're making all the low skilled jobs that were making above minimum wage into minimum wage employees, who within a year of this being in effect will find their purchasing power has dropped substantially.
That is my biggest problem with these high targets for minimum wage. You're making all the low skilled jobs that were making above minimum wage into minimum wage employees, who within a year of this being in effect will find their purchasing power has dropped substantially.
No. Those jobs will increase their wages and adjust for the increased cost of living.
Once everything settles out the people making minimum wage will still barely make ends meet and the skilled workers will be making five to ten times more than minimum wage. Just like it is now. Only difference is everything in the area is going to cost double what it used to.
BPTactical
06-03-2014, 09:01
I can't wait to taste a $10.00 Whopper! It should taste better than a $6.00 one right?
Automation?
This does have a huge unseen economic benefit, fast food joints just outside of Seattle should see an influx of business.
Don't think for a second that automation means lower prices either.
Rooskibar03
06-03-2014, 09:24
Seattle economy is going to die.
I can't wait to laugh my ass off when people see what the voted for.
This absolutely will be fun to watch how this all unfolds.
newracer
06-03-2014, 09:39
There will be some price increases but the real downfall will there will be less jobs available. In addition, the employers will demand more from the employees since they are making more.
kawiracer14
06-03-2014, 09:43
So everyone up there is moving to Tacoma?
hollohas
06-03-2014, 10:30
Won't be overnight really. It's phased in over several years, and smaller businesses have longer to start paying the higher wage, 2 year longer IIRC. Plus, teenagers will have a lower minimum wage. It's going to get confusing in a couple years as a teen working at a large company will have a different minimum wage than an adult at either a large or small business.
If this is true that would be without a doubt, clear cut age discrimination. Why should an adult who flips burgers gets paid any more than a teen who flips the very same burgers?
And why should a "big" company be forced to pay more than a small one?
Unbelievable. Not only are they screwing themselves with this new crazy high min wage, they are being outright discriminatory and anti American at the same time by singling out young people and large companies.
I wish it was immediate so we could see the failure sooner than later.
If this is true that would be without a doubt, clear cut age discrimination. Why should an adult who flips burgers gets paid any more than a teen who flips the very same burgers?
And why should a "big" company be forced to pay more than a small one?
Unbelievable. Not only are they screwing themselves with this new crazy high min wage, they are being outright discriminatory and anti American at the same time by singling out young people and large companies.
Teens don't have families to support was one reason they put behind it. Eventually all companies will have to pay at least 15/hr, smaller companies just have longer to get there. And I think larger companies that provide health benefits have some extra time as well.
http://news.yahoo.com/seattle-council-passes-15-minimum-wage-224406450--finance.html
More command economy baloney.
theGinsue
06-03-2014, 12:09
The people who are really going to get screwed by this are those living/working just outside of Seatlle's city limits. Once people start to see their prices going up because of the new wages they will start going further out to buy their goods at the places still offering lower prices. Now, what usually happens when businesses start seeing increased business, they raise their prices (supply & demand in action). those people not getting the benefit of increased wages who then have to deal with higher prices will feel the sting.
Colorado_Outback
06-03-2014, 12:12
Councilmember Tom Rasmussen said "Seattle wants to stop the race to the bottom in wages" and address the "widening gap between the rich and the poor."
I'm so tired of hearing about the gap between rich and poor.
Get an education or learn a trade like the rest of us "rich" people did. Jesus.
hghclsswhitetrsh
06-03-2014, 12:28
Councilmember Tom Rasmussen said "Seattle wants to stop the race to the bottom in wages" and address the "widening gap between the rich and the poor."
I'm so tired of hearing about the gap between rich and poor.
Get an education or learn a trade like the rest of us "rich" people did. Jesus.
Racist.
/sarcasm
clodhopper
06-03-2014, 13:39
like the rest of us "rich" people did.
You are rich? Wow, I suck.
:)
buffalobo
06-03-2014, 13:58
Another step on the path...
Incrementalism at it's finest.
lobbed from my electronic ball and chain
spqrzilla
06-03-2014, 14:43
Democrats sure elect some extraordinarily stupid people to office.
Welcome to Starbucks, home of the $19 Tall Latte.
DavieD55
06-03-2014, 15:19
They're not stupid, they are trying to collapse the system in every way possible. They know exactly what they're doing.
They're not stupid, they are trying to collapse the system in every way possible. They know exactly what they're doing.
Yup, this gets them a lot of votes for the next year or two until it rolls out. Then, when things start unraveling, they can pass a new "miracle" bill and be the heroes again!
Yup, this gets them a lot of votes for the next year or two until it rolls out. Then, when things start unraveling, they can pass a new "miracle" bill and be the heroes again!
They go from one crisis to the next where the general populace is okay with whittliong away at one's rights to avert the next crisis. Along with getting the most votes dependant on the system for survival, they will vote any way they can to get that handout they didn't earn.
hollohas
06-03-2014, 15:50
Teens don't have families to support was one reason they put behind it.
Still discrimination.
There's no way that would hold up on court if some teen found a lawyer to challenge it. I think the government dictating wages is BS. Even more BS is the government dictating wages based on age.
The whole thing is messed up.
Aloha_Shooter
06-03-2014, 16:27
Sounds like a good time to invest in fast food, grocery, and convenience stores just outside the Seattle city limits ...
DavieD55
06-03-2014, 16:35
This is how they drive out independant and take control of the dependant.
This is how they drive out independant and take control of the dependant.
All while making independents look like jerks because "everyone deserves a living wage". Share more!
DavieD55
06-03-2014, 18:07
This here is one of the ringleaders who really pushed for the $15 per hour minimum wage... Study this individual folks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshama_Sawant
Welcome to Starbucks, home of the $19 Tall Latte.
People like that will never complain about the cost of a cup of coffee. But they will be the first to complain if a gallon of gas goes up ten cents.
Colorado_Outback
06-04-2014, 10:27
People like that will never complain about the cost of a cup of coffee. But they will be the first to complain if a gallon of gas goes up ten cents.
All you need to do is open a hippy gas station and label your gas "free trade, cage free" and they wouldn't bitch about that either.
Is it at least a full body latte?
Is it at least a full body latte?
Not for $19...Gentlemen's Lattes start at $20K
kidicarus13
07-23-2015, 00:30
Some fallout... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/22/seattle-sees-fallout-from-15-minimum-wage-as-other-cities-follow-suit/
BushMasterBoy
07-23-2015, 00:39
It is 2015, so $15 an hour sounds rite. LOL the new math
jhood001
07-23-2015, 01:04
Some fallout... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/22/seattle-sees-fallout-from-15-minimum-wage-as-other-cities-follow-suit/
Opinion piece from Fox (MY SHOCKED FACE). Lacks statistics. Citing 'some restaurants' and a comic book store.
I don't think the wage increase was a good thing, but it will ultimately be an experiment. A hand full of months isn't enough to tell. The results will be telling in those cities a couple of years from now. They'll be obvious. I don't vote there and I don't live there. And I'm not the fearful type that believes that 'stupid' spreads to everyone else. Or that 'stupid' can somehow infect me.
However, one's dogma allows one to comment now, cite less than .01% of the local businesses experiences and propel what is, at the moment, a myth.
We live in the age of data, people. The data will be telling. Just give it a little time.
The data for gains and losses to date exists (keep in mind that market fluctuations are heavily influenced by dogmatic speculation). Yet Fox, an organization worth over 11 billion can't pay up for a team to get you real numbers on the impact of the minimum wage increase.
Ignore anyone who is too lazy, too stupid, or flat out lying to you when it comes to reporting on the impact of anything on anything.
They don't have your best interests in mind.
The price of the goods will have to go up. Higher prices are a disincentive and dining out will not be a regular occurrence and business will decline. A bunch of hourly workers will be out of work. The purchasing power of those who are making the higher wages is not realized due to higher prices.
This has been observed as minimums have increased over time. We don't need yet another experiment to identify what happens when hourly wages go up.
my thoughts exactly. we have no evidence whatsoever that raising the minimum wage does anything to help the impoverished. you look at places, like australia, where the minimum wage is very high and its not like people are living the high life, they just have higher cost for housing, food, transportation, etc.
The price of the goods will have to go up. Higher prices are a disincentive and dining out will not be a regular occurrence and business will decline. A bunch of hourly workers will be out of work. The purchasing power of those who are making the higher wages is not realized due to higher prices.
This has been observed as minimums have increased over time. We don't need yet another experiment to identify what happens when hourly wages go up.
68Charger
07-23-2015, 07:14
I also saw this story: http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/07/seattle-card-tip-issue.html
Yes, I know wait staff (and other tip based positions) include tips to reach the minimum wage, and it's not $15 YET...
But at least he's doing something to protest... And it's more visible than what I do. (NOT go to Seattle)
The price of the goods will have to go up. Higher prices are a disincentive and dining out will not be a regular occurrence and business will decline. A bunch of hourly workers will be out of work. The purchasing power of those who are making the higher wages is not realized due to higher prices.
This has been observed as minimums have increased over time. We don't need yet another experiment to identify what happens when hourly wages go up.
my thoughts exactly. we have no evidence whatsoever that raising the minimum wage does anything to help the impoverished. you look at places, like australia, where the minimum wage is very high and its not like people are living the high life, they just have higher cost for housing, food, transportation, etc.
:) Right on!!
Sad thing is when minimum wage goes up the other people who are making just above min. wage salaries will stay the same. So again were screwed....
DavieD55
07-27-2015, 01:22
More insanity coming out of Seattle.
Seattle Mayor Endorses Plan to Develop Sharia-Compliant Mortgages.
CNSNews (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/seattle-mayor-endorses-plan-develop-sharia-compliant-mortgages)
(CNSNews.com) – Seattle Mayor Ed Murray has endorsed a recommendation by his affordable housing committee to develop Sharia-compliant mortgages as a way to help Muslims buy homes.Paying or charging interest is prohibited under Islamic law, which views money “purely as a medium of exchange” and “therefore should not be allowed to give rise to more money,” according to the Institute of Islamic Banking and Insurance.
“We will work to develop new tools for Muslims who are prevented from using conventional mortgage products due to their religious beliefs,” Murray said at a July 13 press conference.
The effort will be part of the mayor’s ambitious goal to increase the city’s housing by 50,000 units over the next decade.
The Seattle Housing Affordability and Livability Agenda sent to Murray and the Seattle City Council by the committee last week stated that the city is currently experiencing “a housing affordability crisis unlike any Seattle has experienced since the Second World War.”
According to Zillow, the median value of a home in Seattle is $504,000, which is more than twice the national median home value of $179,200.
There are now more than 3,000 homeless people living in Seattle, a 21 percent increase in the past year, city officials said, and the fourth highest homeless population of any major U.S. city.
“The crisis of housing affordability in Seattle is a true Gordian Knot,” caused by the competing interests of groups who are “politically powerful enough to block any single-sided proposal,” according to the report.
“Limited options for financing a home purchase are available for Muslim households who abide by Sharia law, which prohibits the payment of interest or fees for loans of money,” it noted.
“The City can help fill this gap by convening lenders, housing nonprofits, and community leaders to explore how the market might develop Sharia-compliant loan products. The City should evaluate current available loan products to determine barriers to their use due to religious or other restrictions.”
Also included in the committee’s 65 recommendations is “upzoning” areas of the city to allow developers more density in return for a mandatory percentage of all new units reserved as affordable housing, and changing city codes to accommodate backyard cottages and micro-housing in single-family neighborhoods.
The report acknowledges that adding “20,000 units of affordable housing and 30,000 new units of market rate housing” over the next 10 years is “a significant stretch for a city that, in the best of times, has created about 800 new affordable units in a year.”
Wow just wow. I want to know of a lender that doesn't charge interest, that just doesn't make sense why would a lender not want make money?
Would I wouldn't do not having to pay interest on stuff.
speedysst
07-27-2015, 05:32
I thought Muslims were supposed to obey the laws of the land they are in. Does that not include banking laws??
It's OK for muslims to make money by forcing non-believers to pay the Jizya...but pay interest on a mortgage? That's crazy talk. [facepalm]
RblDiver
07-27-2015, 06:49
Wow just wow. I want to know of a lender that doesn't charge interest, that just doesn't make sense why would a lender not want make money?
Would I wouldn't do not having to pay interest on stuff.
I was hearing on a news article that they don't pay interest per say, but it's like they give you a share of future earnings. Sort of like stock. So while you'd repay the loan with no interest, you'd also give them, say, 10% of your earnings.
Still a dumb idea.
On a side note, I was just thinking of the repercussions of building a backyard tiny home and how that might affect resale value.
Circuits
07-27-2015, 09:52
I was hearing on a news article that they don't pay interest per say, but it's like they give you a share of future earnings. Sort of like stock. So while you'd repay the loan with no interest, you'd also give them, say, 10% of your earnings.
Still a dumb idea.
They do other things to avoid calling it interest, too - like buying the house, then selling it back to you for what the amount with interest would have been, and letting you make installment payments over 20 or 30 years. Or buying the house and leasing it to you on forced 20 or 30 year rent-to-own contract. There are some minor differences in how late payments are handled, since late fees would be considered interest, too, but otherwise it's pretty much the same as any other bank but with double-think gobbledy gook so they can effectively charge interest without having to call it that.
Apparently, the $15 minimum wage is a good thing, except for your own interns...
http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/25/bernie-sanders-demands-15-per-hour-minimum-wage-pays-his-own-interns-12-per-hour/#ixzz3h0OPAJAj
Democratic presidential hopeful and self-described socialist Bernie Sandersintroduced a bill (http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/23/bernie-sanders-time-for-a-federal-living-wage/) to raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour this week.However, Sanders pays his own interns just $12 per hour, notes the Media Research Center (http://www.mrctv.org/blog/bernie-sanders-introduces-bill-15-minimum-wage-only-pays-staff-12#.jmjrra:YJB7).
On a website entitled “Bernie Sanders, United States Senator for Vermont,” Sanders and his legislative team declare that interns “are an integral part of our Senate operation and contribute greatly to the senator’s work on behalf of Vermont and the nation.”
Just below, in the Frequently Asked Questions section, Sanders flatly explains he pays his own interns “$12 per hour.”
Directly to the left of this statement is the headline “Rally for $15 Minimum Wage.”
Here’s a screenshot:
http://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Bernie-Sanders-hypocrite.jpg (http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Bernie-Sanders-hypocrite.jpg)“GOOD JOBS NATION!” the red, white and blue, flag-motif sign in front of Sanders’s lectern reads in the photo beneath the headline. “REBUILD THE AMERICAN DREAM.”
The internship FAQ also notes that no stipend for housing will be provided for anyone working as an intern for Sanders. “Interns are responsible for their own housing near their employing office.”
Also, Sanders specifically prohibits high school students from his $12-per-hour internship jobs. College graduates “and those currently pursuing a degree” are primarily encouraged to apply.
I was hearing on a news article that they don't pay interest per say, but it's like they give you a share of future earnings. Sort of like stock. So while you'd repay the loan with no interest, you'd also give them, say, 10% of your earnings.
Still a dumb idea.
hmm I still think I would rather keep my profits and pay interest. Thanks for the explanation!
JohnnyDrama
07-29-2015, 19:15
A lot of good ideas on economics here. I got nothing to add. This thread does bring to mind one of my first jobs stocking vending machines for the man camp and work areas around Parachute in the early 80s. I was still in high school and only did this over a spring break and weekends but will remember it always. We were up at the crack of dawn to load the vehicle with pop and candy bars then head up the hill. We'd open the machines and begin stocking as needed as we worked our way up to the mine. Quite often things would shut down and there would be a rush of workers to the machines when they'd buy the products directly form me. My partner - the boss, who could drive- would continue to stock the machines. We'd work through our day and stock the machines as needed, or sell directly to the workers through the routine we had established. It was meaningful (to me) and it was fun. I don't remember what the minimum wage was back then but I'm pretty sure I got more than that. But really it wasn't about the money. I did it because I got to be a part of something. I knew it wasn't going to be a career but it taught me a lot. The inflation, job loss, and general decrease in living standards, this is what I fell increasing the minimum wage will destroy.
Circuits
07-29-2015, 21:53
The inflation, job loss, and general decrease in living standards, this is what I fell increasing the minimum wage will destroy.
Minimum wage laws guarantee that only those worth the wage will have jobs, except for government positions. Unfortunately, the social services and entitlements means those who can't or won't cut it don't have any downside to not being worth their minimum wage pay rate, since they probably make more on unemployment benefits than those who still have jobs.
Having ANY minimum wage makes about as much sense to me as having a maximum wage.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
Having ANY minimum wage makes about as much sense to me as having a maximum wage.
Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
And Libtards intend to implement both.
Not for their elite, of course. Just to make sure everyone else is equally poor and dependent on gov.
I'd like to see how certain professions that pay marginally more make out. For example, my wife didn't make much more than $15/hour after school working in a community health center. Long hours, shitty conditions/patients/etc... Of course it got better with experience. What would be the incentive for someone like her to get into that field, requiring an Associate's degree, when she could go flip burgers for $15?
My first serious job (1999) paid $11.50/hour plus some overtime potential. After two years I was making $18. I've been able to work my way up and do much better now. If $15.00 was the min, there would be less budget to pay raises, and thus less mobility. So instead of making $11.50 for a few years and then doing much better, a person might be stuck at $15 for a long time. This will decrease the incentive to work up to a better job/pay. Incentives must be timely to be effective. I can't work hard for years, without seeing a reward, and be expected to continue working hard for a future that doesn't happen.
So I see this as one giant demotivation for young people.
The libs are already bitching about CEO salaries, using them to justify this unsupportable minimum wage agenda.
My first serious job (1999) paid $11.50/hour plus some overtime potential. After two years I was making $18. I've been able to work my way up and do much better now. If $15.00 was the min, there would be less budget to pay raises, and thus less mobility. So instead of making $11.50 for a few years and then doing much better, a person might be stuck at $15 for a long time. This will decrease the incentive to work up to a better job/pay. Incentives must be timely to be effective. I can't work hard for years, without seeing a reward, and be expected to continue working hard for a future that doesn't happen.
Along those same lines, I think a lot of current minimum wage workers are going to get a wake up call when they have to compete for their job, against someone with real skills and an understanding of what customer service actually means.
The libs are already bitching about CEO salaries, using them to justify this unsupportable minimum wage agenda.
Like class warfare is anything new for those folks.
Bring on mob rule and government dependency!!! [Coffee]
The libs are already bitching about CEO salaries, using them to justify this unsupportable minimum wage agenda.
Of course they are.
They've instituted a command economy subset with the minimum wage, why not set a maximum wage too. I can't wait until they decide they're going to set product pricing at the R&D, manufacturing, wholesale, and retail levels.
Entry level wages suck. Jobs with low skills requirements have slow if any promotion potential.
Get an education and get some experience. This was true 100 years ago and it is true today.
Just some comparison on pay: http://www1.salary.com/E3-Private-First-Class-Army-hourly-wages.html
Minimum and maximum wage, government entitlement programs, minus the work it sounds like a socialist movement to me.
Entry level wages suck. Jobs with low skills requirements have slow if any promotion potential.
Get an education and get some experience. This was true 100 years ago and it is true today.
Just some comparison on pay: http://www1.salary.com/E3-Private-First-Class-Army-hourly-wages.html
Now, now, now.
Get an education? Ambition? Experience? Work towards a promotion? Why would any parasite want any part of those things when Uncle Sam will steal money from the producers and hand it over to the parasites...after taking his cut of course.
College is pushed so hard that EVERYONE is getting an education, and an education so expensive they can't ever repay it, so look for that narrative to change. Trade skills are going to be coming back in force.
Along those same lines, I think a lot of current minimum wage workers are going to get a wake up call when they have to compete for their job, against someone with real skills and an understanding of what customer service actually means.
That's true too. The fewer jobs will have higher requirements/expectations. And if the increases hit the consumer (which they will) then the consumer will demand more too (not just the employers).
Young people have fewer opportunities to work before finishing school as well. So they will be expected to transition--and that will be hard.
College is pushed so hard that EVERYONE is getting an education, and an education so expensive they can't ever repay it, so look for that narrative to change. Trade skills are going to be coming back in force.
I have been railing against the constant drumbeat of "going to college" that is pushed by the government schools. I am fully supportive of the efforts of Mike Rowe and his work to get those who want to work interested in doing jobs that pay.
http://mikerowe.com/
Two of my three kids are in college and the third is in vo-tech learning to be a welder. My money is on the welder being able to support herself when she graduates. I also don't think she will have to worry too much about the minimum wage once she has some experience.
They'll just build machines that flip burgers. Cheaper and no health insurance.
They'll just build machines that flip burgers. Cheaper and no health insurance.
Already done and in practice.
Great-Kazoo
07-31-2015, 18:03
They'll just build machines that flip burgers. Cheaper and no health insurance.
Too bad they couldn't do something like that for the automotive industry [LOL]
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/motivationdemotivator.jpeg
muddywings
07-31-2015, 18:33
this could have it's own thread but it think it fits nicely here:
A CEO raised his company's minimum wage to $70,000 a year, and some employees quit because of it
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ceo-raised-minimum-wage-70-212850113.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=fb&fb_ref=Default
shocked...shocked I tell you!
this could have it's own thread but it think it fits nicely here:
A CEO raised his company's minimum wage to $70,000 a year, and some employees quit because of it
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ceo-raised-minimum-wage-70-212850113.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=fb&fb_ref=Default
shocked...shocked I tell you!
I was coming in to post this! Great story. Here's a good snip...
But while she was initially on board, helping to calculate whether the company could afford to raise salaries so drastically (the plan is a minimum of $70,000 over the course of three years), McMaster later began to have doubts.
"He gave raises to people who have the least skills and are the least equipped to do the job, and the ones who were taking on the most didn’t get much of a bump," she told The Times. A fairer plan, she told the paper, would give newer employees smaller increases, along with the chance to earn a more substantial raise with more experience.
So a feel-good-useful-idiot supported the idea and then bailed because the idea removed the incentives for hard work/contribution.
This country is so jacked. Not just for all the social issues but for the mere fact that 2 + 2 is an impossible problem for some to solve.
Circuits
08-01-2015, 11:34
Yep. While it *may* motivate some workers to do better and be more productive so they feel like they deserve the pay, it likely won't motivate all or even a large fraction. Like most social experiments where merit is removed from rewards, it will wind up dumbing down the overall workforce as productive high achievers leave for places they'll be appropriately rewarded for their efforts, and ever-growing numbers of barely-adequate people are happy to stay on and do just enough not to get fired.
This country is so jacked. Not just for all the social issues but for the mere fact that 2 + 2 is an impossible problem for some to solve.
The answer is 5...as long as you can explain how you came to that conclusion.
The answer is 5...as long as you can explain how you came to that conclusion.
I thought I just had to feel that was the answer? Why should have I have to explain myself?
You felt it was 5. There's the explanation. Telling you the answer was '4' might hurt your self-esteem, so we won't go there. There are no wrong answers.
...unless you're a white Christian male.
this could have it's own thread but it think it fits nicely here:
A CEO raised his company's minimum wage to $70,000 a year, and some employees quit because of it
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ceo-raised-minimum-wage-70-212850113.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=fb&fb_ref=Default
shocked...shocked I tell you!
Where'd the CEO get that idea? From Atlas Shrugged?
O2
Aloha_Shooter
08-03-2015, 12:55
Update on Dan Price (Mr. $70K Minimum Wage:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/1/dan-price-seattle-ceo-who-set-company-minimum-wage/
Dan Price, the 31-year-old CEO of credit-card processing firm Gravity Payments, told (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/business/a-company-copes-with-backlash-against-the-raise-that-roared.html?_r=0) The New York Times that things have gotten so bad for him financially that he’s been forced to rent out his own house to make ends meet.
Now Mr. Price (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mr-price/) says the decision has cost him a few customers and two of his “most valued” employees, who quit after newer, less skilled employees ended up with bigger salary hikes than those who had been working longer for the company.
Meanwhile, Mr. Price (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mr-price/)’s brother Lucas, who owns 30 percent of the company filed a lawsuit two weeks after the pay raise announcement, accusing his younger brother of taking millions of dollars out of the company while denying him the benefits of minority ownership.
muddywings
08-03-2015, 13:35
I thought I just had to feel that was the answer? Why should have I have to explain myself?
Yup-more liberal theory...
https://www.ar-15.co/threads/113421-Chicago-Teaching-style-3x4-11-is-ok?highlight=chicago+math
Where'd the CEO get that idea? From Atlas Shrugged?
O2
20th Century Motors worked so well in fiction, that he figured he would apply it to real life!
https://thesnarkwhohuntsback.wordpress.com/favorite-passages-from-atlas-shrugged/the-story-of-the-twentieth-century-motor-company-atlas-shrugged-part-ii/
kidicarus13
08-03-2015, 14:49
Update on Dan Price (Mr. $70K Minimum Wage:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/1/dan-price-seattle-ceo-who-set-company-minimum-wage/
These seem like very logical results of poor decision making but maybe I'm just too conservative to understand Dan Price.
These seem like very logical results of poor decision making but maybe I'm just too conservative to understand Dan Price.
Conservatism isn't likely your problem. You're probably being stifled by your logic, rational thought, and understanding of human nature while attempting to connect the same dots as Dan Price. That's like trying to divide by zero.
muddywings
08-10-2015, 11:08
Seattle CEO is doubling down!
http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/09/news/gravity-payments-dan-price-70k-salary/index.html
Aloha_Shooter
08-10-2015, 11:26
Seattle CEO is doubling down!
http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/09/news/gravity-payments-dan-price-70k-salary/index.html
<shrug> Well, he's doing something he believes in rather than just mouth platitudes so I'll give him credit for that. Nothing will happen overnight so the real test will be if his company survives or even prospers for 3, 5, 10 years with this philosophy. If it does, more power to him. In the meantime, his best, most productive employees seem to want to depart for pastures where they will be rewarded for putting forth more effort.
Then again, just how much initiative do they need in a credit card processing company?
Yhea, at least he's doing it with HIS money rather than with OUR money, which is what government regulations ultimately boil down to.
O2
kidicarus13
03-07-2016, 22:26
The first sentence says it all. WE DEMAND MORE! I'm guessing Bernie will winl Oregon and Washington State.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/07/too-low-too-slow-even-state-that-just-raised-minimum-wage-is-facing-pressure-to-raise-it-again.html
Good bump. I'm confused by this part.
In a statement, Democratic Gov. Kate Brown said the phase-in approach provides “a path forward – so working families can catch up, and businesses have time to plan for the increase.”Activists who pushed for the minimum wage increase don’t see a good reason to give families and businesses that sort of time.
What do working families need time to adjust for a wage increase for? Does the article mean family run businesses?
colorider
03-07-2016, 22:32
Minimum wage is a starting block, not the finish line. I wish these crying hippies would realize that. But noooooooooo. Our govt is telling them it's just dandy to stick with the min wage jobs as a life choice. Min wage goes up, rents, products, services are forced to go up and they are stuck in the exact same financial situation. So sad that people and law makers can't understand simple economics.
kidicarus13
03-07-2016, 22:33
Good bump. I'm confused by this part.
What do working families need time to adjust for a wage increase for? Does the article mean family run businesses?
I think it means catch up in pay. So those with minimum wage jobs earn what those with college degrees earn. Makes sense [emoji107]
GunsRBadMMMMKay
03-07-2016, 22:44
I think it means catch up in pay. So those with minimum wage jobs earn what those with college degrees earn. Makes sense [emoji107]
Well with all the free college that's being promised by the Democratic 2016 hopefuls, there shouldn't be any excuse for every minimum wage earning worker not to go get their masters :p
I'm curious though, if they start giving that shit away will all us "rich" middle class types who took out loans or paid for college get refunds or our loans forgiven? (I am being sarcastic, obviously.....they'll probably increase my loan interest to make up for the loss of business)
Well "everyone has a right to a living wage."
Maybe there's a silver lining to this: less people paying into the whole higher education scam.*
* I'm referring to the degrees that saddle students with a lot of debt yet don't result in a good career. Clearly college education has its place and all degrees can be useful to certain people. But too many people got sold a bill of goods and the result is the enrichment of elitist leftists.
Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
Madeinhb
03-08-2016, 02:36
Well with all the free college that's being promised by the Democratic 2016 hopefuls, there shouldn't be any excuse for every minimum wage earning worker not to go get their masters :p
I'm curious though, if they start giving that shit away will all us "rich" middle class types who took out loans or paid for college get refunds or our loans forgiven? (I am being sarcastic, obviously.....they'll probably increase my loan interest to make up for the loss of business)
I've been wondering the same thing. 2029 can't come soon enough. I'll 49 and student loans will be paid off. Unless they give the free tuition crap. And if they happen to pass free College and not pay off our loans- we raise a fuss about being punished for being an adult. Lol
Minimum wage is a starting block, not the finish line. I wish these crying hippies would realize that. But noooooooooo. Our govt is telling them it's just dandy to stick with the min wage jobs as a life choice. Min wage goes up, rents, products, services are forced to go up and they are stuck in the exact same financial situation. So sad that people and law makers can't understand simple economics.
Stop making sense! [Beer]
And if they happen to pass free College and not pay off our loans- we raise a fuss about being punished for being an adult.
The people who were responsible and didn't take out a mortgage they couldn't afford got nothing in 2008/9 and the irresponsible ones got bailed out. It'll never be fair.
If you want $15 to flip burgers, they'll make a burger flipping robot and you won't make anything. Robots don't need health insurance or FICA.
There’s an 83% chance that automation will take a job with an hourly wage below $20, a 31% chance automation will take a job with an hourly wage between $20 and $40, and just a 4% chance automation will take a job with an hourly wage above $40.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-robots-are-coming-for-jobs-that-pay-20-an-hour-or-less-white-house-finds-2016-02-22
And arbitrarily making a $10/hr job a $25/hr job will just speed up the process and guarantee you'll be replaced very soon.
If you want $15 to flip burgers, they'll make a burger flipping robot and you won't make anything. Robots don't need health insurance or FICA.
The big chains like McDonald's and Burger King don't even flip their burgers. That crap is already cooked in a factory and then shipped to the franchise. They burger "flippers" (slinger is probably more accurate) just puts them in warming cabinets until they are served.
It would be trivial to automate the assembly of a burger. You just need some hoppers with an auger to dispense the "vegetables", one of those toaster-conveyors, some pneumatically driven condiment squirters, and some slightly more creative contraptions.
They already have ordering kiosks in some places/countries. I've been to airports that use iPads for ordering. The tech is here; the government just needs to give these big corporations a reason to roll this stuff out. You could easily install one of these Burger-maker 9000s for the cost of one or two full time employees at $15/hr.
Hell, even a burger-flipping robot wouldn't be that hard. A quick search for "burger flipping robot" yields plenty of examples.
The big chains like McDonald's and Burger King don't even flip their burgers. That crap is already cooked in a factory and then shipped to the franchise. They burger "flippers" (slinger is probably more accurate) just puts them in warming cabinets until they are served.
It would be trivial to automate the assembly of a burger. You just need some hoppers with an auger to dispense the "vegetables", one of those toaster-conveyors, some pneumatically driven condiment squirters, and some slightly more creative contraptions.
They already have ordering kiosks in some places/countries. I've been to airports that use iPads for ordering. The tech is here; the government just needs to give these big corporations a reason to roll this stuff out. You could easily install one of these Burger-maker 9000s for the cost of one or two full time employees at $15/hr.
Hell, even a burger-flipping robot wouldn't be that hard. A quick search for "burger flipping robot" yields plenty of examples.
Not true, the McD's I've seen recently still use the same clam shell style grills I worked at when I was in high school. Most of them are open enough that if you go inside you can see back into the grill area. The patties are still frozen pucks of ground beef, but are cooked in the store. If the holding cabinet times are the same from when I worked at one in high school, any beef patties are thrown out after 30 minutes.
I still like to stop off and get a mcmuffin sandwich and coffee once every few weeks in the morning. Also, this time of year sees me stop at least once to get a shamrock shake as they are a reminder of the times my grandfather would take me to get them.
HoneyBadger
03-09-2016, 21:00
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-robots-are-coming-for-jobs-that-pay-20-an-hour-or-less-white-house-finds-2016-02-22
Just asking for the free market (what's left of it) to do its thing and replace them.
Martinjmpr
03-10-2016, 10:43
And arbitrarily making a $10/hr job a $25/hr job will just speed up the process and guarantee you'll be replaced very soon.
Either that or people who refuse to pay $8 for a cheeseburger will simply pass these stores by in which case they go out of business and then NOBODY has a job.
Either that or people who refuse to pay $8 for a cheeseburger will simply pass these stores by in which case they go out of business and then NOBODY has a job.
You see that as a problem, Lib elite see that as a feature. Street level Libs will blame a Republican.
The goal has long been to eliminate economic mobility and destroy the middle class.
Martinjmpr
03-10-2016, 12:17
The thing I find frustrating about minimum wage discussions is that those who promote higher minimum wages don't seem to get the concept that money has no fixed value. The value is of money is what the money will buy. Putting more money into people's pockets doesn't help them a bit if it takes more money to buy the things they need to buy, it puts them right back where they were.
If the people pushing for "income equality" really cared about inequality they would look not at money, whose value is arbitrary, but in terms of how many hours of work does it take to afford a week's groceries or a month's rent or a payment on a used car.
Hell, even the term "INCOME Inequality" misses the point because "wealth" and "income" are not the same thing.
Agree completely. I think part of that is how folks are conditioned to have a five minute attention span. Part of consumerism too, why we see a new car having more value than a used car.
I run a household budget and input actuals each month. I can easily flip back to 2011 and see what we were spending on groceries for example: ~35% more compared to 2015. Fed says we have nominal inflation each year (0-2%). It's clear the goalpost has been moved. The folks who live on credit and by their feels likely have little/no visibility into that.
The goal isn't income equality. It's votes.
The goal isn't income equality. It's votes.
I disagree... to a point. They want the votes, yes. But that's not the end goal. Minimum wage goes up, prices go up, no one can afford anything, middle class destroyed... Enter socialism, state left. That's the end goal with all this minimum wage hoopla. But on that route, they use the argument to garner the votes needed so there is little or no resistance when they propose socialist policies.
I disagree... to a point. They want the votes, yes. But that's not the end goal. Minimum wage goes up, prices go up, no one can afford anything, middle class destroyed... Enter socialism, state left. That's the end goal with all this minimum wage hoopla. But on that route, they use the argument to garner the votes needed so there is little or no resistance when they propose socialist policies.
Headshot!
Street level Libs continue to blame the 1% and Republicans during the whole process as it appears to be more exploitive and thus continue to vote Democrat all the way down.
Zundfolge
03-10-2016, 17:52
I, for one, am looking forward to $15 minimum wage for these burger flippers so that the Fast Food restaurants will replace the idiots I have to deal with with computer kiosks so I don't have to explain 4 times that my wife doesn't want pickles on her burger (and then getting a burger with pickles on it).
HoneyBadger
03-10-2016, 20:07
I, for one, am looking forward to $15 minimum wage for these burger flippers so that the Fast Food restaurants will replace the idiots I have to deal with with computer kiosks so I don't have to explain 4 times that my wife doesn't want pickles on her burger (and then getting a burger with pickles on it).
You really think that will change? [LOL]
You really think that will change? [LOL]
Robots are run by binary computers. At least they have a shot at getting the 'no pickles' order right 50% of the time. [Coffee]
HoneyBadger
03-10-2016, 23:21
Robots are run by binary computers. At least they have a shot at getting the 'no pickles' order right 50% of the time. [Coffee]
I'm not a statistician, but I think that's only a small downgrade from the current pass/fail rate. [LOL]
Great-Kazoo
03-10-2016, 23:38
I'm not a statistician, but I think that's only a small downgrade from the current pass/fail rate. [LOL]
Maybe. However their comprehension of ENGLISH is 100%
Our daughter eats at a Panera in CA. I know their food sucks. She however informs us , Yes the food's not great . (How does she put it?) IT'S THE ONLY PLACE THEY SPEAK FUCKIN ENGLISH. Works for me.
I on the other hand don't have too much of an issue placing a food order in espanol. Especially when you kind of butcher the order and they politely say. I do speak english, if it's easier.
Circuits
03-10-2016, 23:58
If the FSA don't get their $15 burgerflipper jobs, they'll just be on welfare at a near-equivalent welfare-salary, I guess.
That'll cut down on their theft, shrinkage and till-skimming opportunities, but leave them more time to practice as "undocumented pharmacists".
GilpinGuy
03-11-2016, 00:36
I on the other hand don't have too much of an issue placing a food order in espanol. Especially when you kind of butcher the order and they politely say. I do speak english, if it's easier.
I don't either, but when you are assumed to know Español and you don't, and that's a problem....see ya. Going somewhere else.
Great-Kazoo
03-11-2016, 01:36
I don't either, but when you are assumed to know Español and you don't, and that's a problem....see ya. Going somewhere else.
Oh I understand it. Just had to remember difference between sin ( without / minus) y no. Having gobs of cheese smothering a tasty dish sucks. Besides sin frijoles, let's them pile more arroz on.
Maybe. However their comprehension of ENGLISH is 100%
Our daughter eats at a Panera in CA. I know their food sucks. She however informs us , Yes the food's not great . (How does she put it?) IT'S THE ONLY PLACE THEY SPEAK FUCKIN ENGLISH. Works for me.
I on the other hand don't have too much of an issue placing a food order in espanol. Especially when you kind of butcher the order and they politely say. I do speak english, if it's easier.
I'm ashamed to admit I like their Turkey Bacon Bravo. Now I'm hungry...
Oops...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/03/22/proof-perfect-that-the-minimum-wage-costs-jobs-from-new-york/#cb77e3d16a00
Nothing new in this piece that wasn't discussed here.
Last sentence:
"Don’t raise the minimum wage, remove the structural impediments to employing people, to people getting a job."
All the candidates talk about "job creation". Government doesn't create jobs, it can ONLY get in the way of job creation. If some candidate stood up and said "My platform is to get government the F out of the way of business." they'd get my vote.
O2
Thinking that government creates jobs is the same as believing that HOAs build homes.
Thinking that government creates jobs is the same as believing that HOAs build homes.
When there are job gains it's "YAYYY GOVERNMENT!"
When there are job losses it's "those greedy CEOs aren't running their business efficiently, we should take them over."
The reality is they have turned employment into a zero-sum game. Pay more (beyond market), cut jobs, and the people with the jobs have to work harder to absorb the lost productivity.
The only winners are on social programs.
Brace yourself for more Commiefornians inbound.
Deal reached to boost California's minimum wage to $15, avoiding ballot box battle
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-deal-20160326-story.html
Swell, just what we need, more idiots from the breadbasket of idiots.
Great-Kazoo
03-27-2016, 10:23
Swell, just what we need, more idiots from the breadbasket of idiots.
It's all about the money (SURPRISE)
labor unions have struck a tentative deal to raise the statewide minimum wage to $10.50 an hour next year and then gradually to $15, averting a costly political campaign this fall and possibly putting California at the forefront of a national movement.
What will be the minimum wage for an employee who no longer has a job?
Where government mandates minimum wages, they may as well mandate minimum prices. Once down that road maximum prices and maximum wages are not long to follow. Government can then begin mandating production targets and regulating consumer demand through availability. Sound like any kind of economic system we have ever read about?
IMO, John Maynard Keynes was a British Fabian and therfore a socialist.
I support the Freedom of Contract:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_contract
What will be the minimum wage for an employee who no longer has a job?
Where government mandates minimum wages, they may as well mandate minimum prices. Once down that road maximum prices and maximum wages are not long to follow. Government can then begin mandating production targets and regulating consumer demand through availability. Sound like any kind of economic system we have ever read about?
IMO, John Maynard Keynes was a British Fabian and therfore a socialist.
I support the Freedom of Contract:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_contract
That's where it goes? Who on this board would rather have their wage determined by their own merits vs those who have no merit want their wage determined by a third party.
HoneyBadger
03-27-2016, 13:28
Thank God California is doing it slowly and I'll be somewhere else by 2019 at the latest. The real shame is that it will affect the pricing of any product made, sold, processed, etc in CA, so everyone else will feel it in little ways until eventually the whole country has raised minimum wage to $15+/hr. Of course, there are plenty of worthless government jobs for all the minimum wagers that get laid off to save businesses... And the businesses look evil and greedy for trying to continue to make profits while making layoffs. It's a socialist's wet dream.
The future host of automated fast food machines introduced en mass right as these wages are implimented will drastically lower overhead and won't ever screw the order up or spit in it or anything.
Sweeeet.
Other menial jobs of course will be exported to China. Warehousing, etc. Fedex and UPS will probably relocate over there pretty soon too. Just send trucks over on a cargo ship pre-loaded with packages and a chinese driver.
Tech and increased productivity can make up for some of it while cost of living will increase.
But the workers forced out of the labor market still need housing, healthcare, food, energy, clothing, etc, etc, etc... So where will it come from? Oh, they'll need more funding for social programs! Or they'll just pass a law outlawing workforce reduction and then younger folks won't be able to find a job.
Californians will get it on both ends.
Replicants should be kept off-world. [LOL]
Anyone remember Blockbusters or Hollywood Video? Tell me machines can't replace lots of human workers the next time you watch something on Netflix or pick up a movie from a Redbox.
Meanwhile, On the Waterfront...
http://www.wsj.com/articles/massive-robots-keep-docks-shipshape-1459104327
Who coulda been a contender?
I hope robots don't replace my snow shoveling job.
Actually, I do. Snow shoveling sucks.
Chaffee2
03-27-2016, 20:53
This may have already been covered if so sorry for the repost. Lets say all goes well and it is $15 an hour for a burger flipper. Great now what about the clerk at 7-11 now he/she gets $15 an hour. How about the RN making $30 an hour or the Policeman making $20. Would not be right to up their pay to say $40 and $30 an hour? How much is that loaf of bread going to cost or that apartment to rent. Did we really gain anything or do we just add a zero to everything so we are all rich now. My goodness we have become a country of complete idiots.
This may have already been covered if so sorry for the repost. Lets say all goes well and it is $15 an hour for a burger flipper. Great now what about the clerk at 7-11 now he/she gets $15 an hour. How about the RN making $30 an hour or the Policeman making $20. Would not be right to up their pay to say $40 and $30 an hour? How much is that loaf of bread going to cost or that apartment to rent. Did we really gain anything or do we just add a zero to everything so we are all rich now. My goodness we have become a country of complete idiots.
Stop making sense, you'll hurt the liberal's brain cell.
Stop making sense, you'll hurt the liberal's brain cell.
Not really, liberals don't care about people making that much money who don't donate to them. To most socialists, even making $25/hr means you are making too much when so many refugees are wanting to come here and need to be fed.
This may have already been covered if so sorry for the repost. Lets say all goes well and it is $15 an hour for a burger flipper. Great now what about the clerk at 7-11 now he/she gets $15 an hour. How about the RN making $30 an hour or the Policeman making $20. Would not be right to up their pay to say $40 and $30 an hour? How much is that loaf of bread going to cost or that apartment to rent. Did we really gain anything or do we just add a zero to everything so we are all rich now. My goodness we have become a country of complete idiots.
I'm not sure how serious you were being, but the answer is No, this will not, and should not be a sliding scale. Fast food wages have zero effect on RN and police officer wages now, and they'll have zero effect on RN and police officer wages after. If any RNs or police officers are jealous of fast food wages, their bosses will tell them that they are welcome to change jobs. There will certainly be instances where people complain enough to get raises (unions I'm sure) because they don't like being so close to the floor.
I'm not sure how serious you were being, but the answer is No, this will not, and should not be a sliding scale. Fast food wages have zero effect on RN and police officer wages now, and they'll have zero effect on RN and police officer wages after. If any RNs or police officers are jealous of fast food wages, their bosses will tell them that they are welcome to change jobs. There will certainly be instances where people complain enough to get raises (unions I'm sure) because they don't like being so close to the floor.
Wages affect cost of products. If all of a sudden food prices surge due to increase in labor costs, other workers will demand increases in salary to offset those costs. So now a McDonald's meal is $10. Well I guarantee five guys or other higher end burger place, or chills etc isnt going to charge less for their "premium burgers" than McDonald's. So they raise their prices. Domino effect.
lets says the cops get a raise and offset cost of living but now the RN doesn't, she just now got that much closer to the burger flipper pay scale, has to adjust lifestyle to accommodate same wages but increased costs.
essentially bringing the middle class closer to the lower class. Now less people aspire to be an RN because it pays close to burger flipper wages. More people will die.
but wait...cops got a raise, burger flippers got a raise...you know what that means? More tax revenue as you now have more folks at the higher tax brackets paying more in taxes. Horray for the Bern, we can now give away free college!
that is why I totally dislike any argument based on the dollar figure you make how much tax you should pay. Implement it now at say 100K, well in 30 years that might not be that much money, yet all these geniuses that vote for this BS are now in that higher tax bracket while being a burger flipper.
lets just be honest and realize some jobs just don't pay well and aren't meant to be careers, and shouldn't be paid like a career job. And if somebody had that job they shouldn't expect to be able to pay for college and live in an apartment and have a car and a cell phone and eat sushi whenever they want. Sometimes you have to make some sacrifices to better yourself.
Just don't forget that fast food isn't the same as "food prices." It is entirely possible to not eat fast food. It's not a staple, and it's not required. If I had an employee approach me and say they needed a raise to match the increase in McDonald's burger prices, I'd do my best not to laugh directly in their face while suggesting that they eat some where else if they don't like the price.
Granted, we're taking about a minimum wage across the board here, not just at fast food restaurants (that's just a common example), so there is a possibility that many goods will increase in price. The hard reality of life though, is that the price of the things you want to purchase has ZERO bearing on your wage. Zero. We like to get caught up in the idea that everything will become more expensive so everyone will get a matching raise and everyone will be right where they started. I just don't see that happening. Gas used to cost almost four times what it does now. I didn't get a raise because of that, nor did anyone I know. Oil prices have a much larger effect on the economy than fast food prices. No one got raises though. Rent prices are through the roof in our area and have been for going on four years now. No one is getting a raise because of that either. The company I used to work for has a lot of people that have been working there for decades, and they all complained that raises have been lower than ever.
I think a minimum wage hike may have a worse effect than people are anticipating. This idea that the economy will adjust and everyone will maintain their socioeconomic status, just with higher inflation, is really the best case scenario.
/snip
I think a minimum wage hike may have a worse effect than people are anticipating. This idea that the economy will adjust and everyone will maintain their socioeconomic status, just with higher inflation, is really the best case scenario.
Yes, guaranteed to have the opposite effect than people are anticipating. The prices of good and services will rise and that rise will have the biggest negative impact on low-paid and unskilled workers.
Employers will look for people who provide the value of $15 an hour, they will release anyone who cannot bring that value. The people advocating for a $15 minimum wage are completely ignorant of market forces and economics. Businesses pass their costs on to the consumers - this is a given that minimum wage advocates fail to recognize.
This whole minimum wage thing is driven by envy and sloth.
Aloha_Shooter
03-28-2016, 09:07
Just don't forget that fast food isn't the same as "food prices." It is entirely possible to not eat fast food. It's not a staple, and it's not required. If I had an employee approach me and say they needed a raise to match the increase in McDonald's burger prices, I'd do my best not to laugh directly in their face while suggesting that they eat some where else if they don't like the price.
In general, I agree with you BUT we are contending with a government and national movement that actively try to delegitimize anything not overseen by the government. Bake sales and lemonade stands? Numerous instances in the past 8 years where those have been shut down because the kitchens weren't inspected the Health Department and the sellers didn't have appropriate licenses. When was the last time you saw a bake sale at a public school?
Of course, those of us who like to cook at home are somewhat protected because a lot of the self-appointed elites like to pretend they're Giada deLaurentiis or Gordon Ramsey or Bobby Flay or some such junk (I cant' stand Flay or his shows).
I agree, a minimum wage hike will probably have a worse effect than most people are anticipating. MUCH worse. It WILL push prices and other wages higher (just not proportionately) as skilled labor will object to the idea that unskilled starting-level wages are so close to theirs. In the end, this will all just devalue the currency -- which by the way helps out the borrow-and-spenders because they'll pay back the loans with currency worth MUCH less than what they borrowed, especially at current rates.
Chaffee2
03-28-2016, 09:08
I'm not sure how serious you were being, but the answer is No, this will not, and should not be a sliding scale. Fast food wages have zero effect on RN and police officer wages now, and they'll have zero effect on RN and police officer wages after. If any RNs or police officers are jealous of fast food wages, their bosses will tell them that they are welcome to change jobs. There will certainly be instances where people complain enough to get raises (unions I'm sure) because they don't like being so close to the floor.
I'm very serious. I had this discussion 30 years ago when I was worked for Wagner Equipment. At the time or maybe still is you were required to be in a union so I had to join. One of the things the union wanted us to do was write our senators and such to push for a higher minimum wage. I started out at IIRC about $8 an hour as an apprentice mechanic, a jounyman made $16 and min wage was about $2.90 or $3 an hour. Union wages were tied to the min wage as a percentage. So if min goes to $15 an apprentice now makes $40 and hour and a journeyman now makes $80 an hour. Cost of construction just sky rocketed in cost so the McD restaurant now went up in cost to build. The point I'm trying to make is if min goes up everything is tied to it one way or the other.
Of course in my example Wagner has options. Simply refuse to raise wages, union strikes. Don't use apprentices any longer and use technicians to do the things that apprentices used to do but there would be no more trained journeyman mechanics in the pipeline because of the training required. We can come up with a million reasons why or why not the min wage is a good or bad idea. The bottom line is if anyone is making minimum wage after high school they are probably doing something wrong. My daughter has had 2 jobs now and neither paid min. She is still in HS.
I don't see how people can say minimum wage isn't tied to all the other jobs. It will create havoc. If a nurse makes $20/hour and the burger flipper makes $15/hour, how do you justify that to the nurse? Don't give me the "Well you're still making the same you are now which you're happy with so don't be mad that others are catching up" crap. That's pure nonsense. Bringing up the bottom for no reason other than "making it fair" ruins those that have tried hard to avoid the bottom. You work hard in life to get ahead. You find a career path that will take you places and you go for it. You don't find a job then demand it pays what you need it to. You used to research career choices and made sure the one you picked was one that would pay what you needed.
I'm very serious. I had this discussion 30 years ago when I was worked for Wagner Equipment. At the time or maybe still is you were required to be in a union so I had to join. One of the things the union wanted us to do was write our senators and such to push for a higher minimum wage. I started out at IIRC about $8 an hour as an apprentice mechanic, a jounyman made $16 and min wage was about $2.90 or $3 an hour. Union wages were tied to the min wage as a percentage. So if min goes to $15 an apprentice now makes $40 and hour and a journeyman now makes $80 an hour. Cost of construction just sky rocketed in cost so the McD restaurant now went up in cost to build. The point I'm trying to make is if min goes up everything is tied to it one way or the other.
Of course in my example Wagner has options. Simply refuse to raise wages, union strikes. Don't use apprentices any longer and use technicians to do the things that apprentices used to do but there would be no more trained journeyman mechanics in the pipeline because of the training required. We can come up with a million reasons why or why not the min wage is a good or bad idea. The bottom line is if anyone is making minimum wage after high school they are probably doing something wrong. My daughter has had 2 jobs now and neither paid min. She is still in HS.
^ Exactly.
People who think these actions will be isolated need to think it through. This will have wide consequences. Sure, you can not buy fast food. But can you not pay your taxes that will be raised to support all the former fast food workers pushed out of their jobs? And if a value meal costs $12.99, fewer people buy them, more workers lose their jobs = downward spiral.
Why would they starve when they can vote Dem to take your paycheck from you?
My wife has a degree and worked in the medical field (support position) until about fives years ago. She made less than $15/hour working long days in a community health center when she got out of school. Later on, she made a little more and found a better position (much better hours too). She had to work her way up and into that job. She wouldn't have had the incentive to do that when burger flippers make as much.
In that example, do healthcare providers pay more to get people like her into those positions? Who pays the increased labor costs? We all do.
And again, when the cost of a need (the new "rights") goes up there will be more people using social programs. So you get it on the front-end with higher costs of living and then you get it in the back-end with taxes.
I think people are missing what I'm saying. I'm not defending a wage hike. I'm saying that employers don't have to justify any thing to their employees.
I think people are missing what I'm saying. I'm not defending a wage hike. I'm saying that employers don't have to justify any thing to their employees.
No, but if they don't, I imagine we'll have over staffing at minimum wage jobs. Why go into debt for a nursing degree when you won't make much more than burger flippers?
Well, the easy answer for most people is that a nursing job has more room to grow. We can't say a burger flipping job is just a stepping stone and you shouldn't work there forever, and at the same time argue that one might as well flip burgers than put in the effort to go through nursing school.
mightiestmouse
03-28-2016, 11:55
Two questions that I have, and I'm sure the statistics are out there... how many jobs out there actually provide minimum wage to people and does anyone know what a starting wage at a burger joint is? I know serving people food can actually bring in less, but that is made up with through tips (some bartenders bring home HUGE money depending on where they work and they are not paid minimum wage). Even the girlfriend who is working for Starbucks makes just over minimum, but they are also paying for her online degree 100% so that more than makes up for it (even if she was making minimum wage). At my manufacturing plant, we start out at $13.50ish an hour and all you have to do is pay attention, drive a fork lift, throw 50lb bags, show up to work on time, and pass a background check (which is more often then not the hardest part for most people). After your trial period, we provide generous benefits (I'd say on average 6-10k/year just for insurance premiums that are picked up by the company for a single person).
A few things I've noticed:
1. People can't pass background checks, and we will not hire anyone with a record. What you do in your youth can have a significant impact on the type of future employment opportunities you open/close yourself to, which I find more and more people in my generation (I'm 27) tend to "live for the moment".
2. People want nothing to do manual labor so instead of making a decent living they will take the $9/hr job at a call center with 0 benefits. No one ever told me that work would be easy. The more risk associated with the job, the more it will tend to pay.
3. Minimum wage rhetoric seems to be blown out of proportion for how many people are directly affected by it, and normally the statistics just look at the wage per hour and not the total cost of employing one person to a company. This can be detrimental to smaller companies, or companies that are working on very tight margins.
4. People complain that American jobs are being shipped overseas now, imagine what will happen when the labor wage gap increases substantially.
No, but if they don't, I imagine we'll have over staffing at minimum wage jobs. Why go into debt for a nursing degree when you won't make much more than burger flippers?
And once they've lowered the bar to that level, why work for $15/hour when you can get on multiple programs and make more than that? That's where they're going with a guaranteed basic income. There would be no reason to get out of bed unless employers offered more than the basic income.
Well, the easy answer for most people is that a nursing job has more room to grow. We can't say a burger flipping job is just a stepping stone and you shouldn't work there forever, and at the same time argue that one might as well flip burgers than put in the effort to go through nursing school.
Grow = work. There has to be incentive.
Considering tuition + interest on school loans + years of schooling (not in the workforce) at what point would a nurse break-even with said bugger flipper? I guess it's different for everyone, but if I didn't see ROI in a few years I'm not sure I would choose that path.
Again, bump up the incentives for being a nurse and it works. But then someone has to pay that. The healthcare system isn't going to absorb the changes imposed from outside the system.
Well, the easy answer for most people is that a nursing job has more room to grow. We can't say a burger flipping job is just a stepping stone and you shouldn't work there forever, and at the same time argue that one might as well flip burgers than put in the effort to go through nursing school.
These demands are validating that notion. That is my point.
colorider
03-28-2016, 12:33
Minimum wage and min wage paying jobs are a starting point, not the finish line.
RblDiver
03-28-2016, 12:52
The hard reality of life though, is that the price of the things you want to purchase has ZERO bearing on your wage. Zero.
Absolutely false. Wages and prices have a LOT to do with what you buy.
Imagine that you are doing well. You have a good wage, economy is going smooth, all that. You can afford the name-brand stuff, so you're more likely to buy it.
Now, however, your wage relative to the economy has fallen. You could be earning the same amount, but due to inflation etc your dollar doesn't go as far. Thus, you might buy the store brand instead because it's cheaper.
I can't remember what the effect is called (it's been about 10 years since my economics class), but there are clear products and whatnot that do better in a downturning economy, and worse in an improving economy. Same with stocks, some are great in bull markets, others in bear markets.
So yes, price will affect what you want to buy, or perhaps more appropriately, will affect what you DO buy. After all, I can want that super luxurious mansion, that yacht, that airplane, but my wage dictates what I can actually afford.
Looks as if California is raising their minimum wage by 50%.... $10.00 to $15.00.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-minimum-wage-deal-20160326-story.html
Aloha_Shooter
03-28-2016, 13:41
Absolutely false. Wages and prices have a LOT to do with what you buy.
Imagine that you are doing well. You have a good wage, economy is going smooth, all that. You can afford the name-brand stuff, so you're more likely to buy it.
Now, however, your wage relative to the economy has fallen. You could be earning the same amount, but due to inflation etc your dollar doesn't go as far. Thus, you might buy the store brand instead because it's cheaper.
I can't remember what the effect is called (it's been about 10 years since my economics class), but there are clear products and whatnot that do better in a downturning economy, and worse in an improving economy. Same with stocks, some are great in bull markets, others in bear markets.
So yes, price will affect what you want to buy, or perhaps more appropriately, will affect what you DO buy. After all, I can want that super luxurious mansion, that yacht, that airplane, but my wage dictates what I can actually afford.
I think what Irving was getting at was that the price of what you want to buy has no causal effect on your wage. What someone ELSE is making has a causal effect on the price of that item but its price has no effect on what you and your employer agree is fair payment for your services.
GunsRBadMMMMKay
03-28-2016, 13:56
I had this discussion 30 years ago when I was worked for Wagner Equipment. At the time or maybe still is you were required to be in a union so I had to join.
I hated that union.....the guys downtown had serious sticks up their asses. Wagner finally got rid of them, the employees voted to oust the union but it barely passed iirc. I may or may not have worked there too ;)
there's nothing wrong with working a minimum wage job in high school or right out, but I wholeheartedly agree that it should be a stepping stone not a career choice. There are a lot of unskilled/semi-skilled or apprentice type jobs available for these kids (I know my stepson is getting paid decent to help around a shop out in Idaho and they also pay him well to life gaurd at the pool when hes up here) but it is true that no one seems to want to work hard or get their hands dirty anymore. Hell they don't even want to have to think hard or learn anything new, I know a kid that chose to quit a full time 15 dollar an hour job to go work part time at subway for less so he could smoke pot and fuck off (I wanted to kick him in his ass for that lol). This seems to be the norm....why work hard when I can slide by and someone else will pick up my slack.
Absolutely false. Wages and prices have a LOT to do with what you buy.
Imagine that you are doing well. You have a good wage, economy is going smooth, all that. You can afford the name-brand stuff, so you're more likely to buy it.
Now, however, your wage relative to the economy has fallen. You could be earning the same amount, but due to inflation etc your dollar doesn't go as far. Thus, you might buy the store brand instead because it's cheaper.
I can't remember what the effect is called (it's been about 10 years since my economics class), but there are clear products and whatnot that do better in a downturning economy, and worse in an improving economy. Same with stocks, some are great in bull markets, others in bear markets.
So yes, price will affect what you want to buy, or perhaps more appropriately, will affect what you DO buy. After all, I can want that super luxurious mansion, that yacht, that airplane, but my wage dictates what I can actually afford.
Aloha_shooter is picking up what I'm putting down. Go to your boss tomorrow and tell him/her, "Hey I need a raise because the price of gas and ammo has gone up, AND the employees at a different company, in a different industry, just got promised raises, " and let us know how the boss replies.
I believe inferior good is the term to which you were referring, RblDiver. What you typed is not wrong, it's just not what I'm talking about.
What is the proper role of government in economic decisions?
I keep returning to the conflict in American political/economic history that occurred between 1929 and 1933. The role of federal economic policy changed drastically between Republican Presidents Coolidge and Hoover. By the time President Roosevelt took office in 1933, the American public welcomed the New Deal and the new role of the federal government in the regulation of economic life. The SCOTUS case that overshadows all of our minimum wage discussions is; West Coast Hotel Co v. Parrish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Hotel_Co._v._Parrish). This decision ended the Lochner era and severely damaged the concept of freedom of contract which had been an accepted norm in the United States having roots going back to English common law.
IMO, when government is allowed to set floors in any economic sphere then it is only a matter of time before the same government bureaucrats begins setting ceilings as well. The closer the floor gets to the ceiling, the fewer choices exist and less freedom necessarily follows.
http://www.mytributejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/mban1259h.jpg
RblDiver
03-28-2016, 17:27
I believe inferior good is the term to which you were referring, RblDiver. What you typed is not wrong, it's just not what I'm talking about.
I see what you're getting at now, and it makes sense. I just got hung up on the whole economics thing and was "Uh, yeah it does!" :P
GunsRBadMMMMKay
03-29-2016, 06:53
You can hate me for linking fb but I felt this was relevant.....or liked what he was saying anyways lol https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1162043553805786:0
Aloha_Shooter
03-29-2016, 08:30
You can hate me for linking fb but I felt this was relevant.....or liked what he was saying anyways lol https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/posts/1162043553805786:0
I like it. I think Mike is off on his prediction of Bernie Sanders handing out welding torches because I think Bernie (like Obama) is looking for the free college as a means for 4 more years of indoctrination into the extreme Liberal mindset while their minds are still malleable. I see far too many of these minds that have been molded into hard Leftist shells when I'm on MMORPGs; it's a pattern of thinking that even disregards facts when they don't fit the preconceived ideological line (not that that is unique to Leftists but it seems to be encouraged and even required on college campuses today).
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