View Full Version : Another parent arrested at a school board meeting.
Rooskibar03
05-06-2014, 16:45
Really getting tired of this crap and the cops who are way out of line.
Not it to mention the room of people who do and say nothing. Way to be good little sheep.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/06/watch-what-happens-when-one-parent-speaks-out-at-a-school-board-meeting-about-a-controversial-book-assigned-to-his-daughter/
The Cop was doing his Job and removing the "disturbance", you can see them talk a few seconds in the hall before he put him in cuffs. Remember you can't upset the sheep (Libs) too much now. The bigger issue was how the hell that became required reading and who the hell would give that to a child to read? The excuse of "forgetting to send out the permission form" was way too weak to let stand.
Rooskibar03
05-06-2014, 17:15
When did speaking out of turn, outside of a courtroom, become an arrestable offense?
Removing him from the room is one thing, arresting him? I don't see a cause here.
buffalobo
05-06-2014, 17:20
Gotta keep the peace. No room for descent or choice in the new Amerika. Now shut up and get back in line slave.
ETA- My comments refer to school board not LEO. Cop was courteous and seemed even a little reluctant.
Lobbed from my electronic ball and chain.
Forget the outrage at what happened, did you see how many people followed the officer and the guy!? "Excuse me folks, I don't need your assistance right now."
The story is about the guy getting arrested, but what about the allowing of the further degradation of our society where children are assigned books that have themes that most parents I know would be vehemently opposed to.
Time and a place. Try that in any public/government meeting and it is a local violation of the ordinance on Disturbing the Peace in just about every jurisdiction in America. He was rude. The cop was patient. The citizen will pay the fine.
Next time maybe he will be respectful of the other citizens who were participating like civilized people. Something about catching more flies with honey comes to mind.
One F'ed up school.
These school officials are as bad as Davis' chancellor Linda Katehi.
hollohas
05-07-2014, 07:32
I don't think the officer did anything wrong and I don't know if the Dad will be fined or not. But I hope not because the Dad has a very good point.
School board meetings are notorious for ignoring parents and I can see how the dad was frustrated. I would be irate. How many of you actually read the excerpts from the book? If I posted them here I am sure my post would be removed and rightly so. So let's see, the book is about a school shooting, bullying, sexual violence and graphic underage sex...a literary classic indeed. How many of you want to bet that the book is unbiased on each of those subjects?
The issue is not the with the Dad being removed for disorderly conduct. Hopefully he just got a ride down to the station and had to call his wife to come pick him up. The issue is with the schools/teachers doing whatever they hell they want without a single worry about consequences. Using assigned material to indoctrinate kids. "Oh whoops, we're sorry we made your kids read this trash without asking you first (fingers crossed behind their backs) we'll be sure to send a note home next time."
Well guess what, here's the school official response regarding what will happen next time. Does this sound like a school board that is sorry?
The School District policies IGE, IJ, IJA, KEC (available on the school district website) refer to the procedures for the use of novels containing controversial material. The district will take immediate action to revise these policies to include notification that requires parents to accept controversial materials rather than to opt out. Furthermore, the notification will detail more specifically the controversial material.
clodhopper
05-07-2014, 08:07
I know I am old and stuff.... But the way I think about it, if the school needs to ask parental permission to include a book, that right there is reason enough to not use the book in class. It isn't like there is some shortage of reading options in the world. I don't understand the need to include edgy subject matter in teaching. Leave that crap for college or adult writing classes.
funkymonkey1111
05-07-2014, 08:11
i wonder if the cop got on a local forum to see if it was OK to arrest this guy?
There is so much wrong on all sides.... Except the dad.
The school should have sent out the permissions slip, taken questions, listened to the parents who had an issue with it and asside from the sex...... what is with reading a book on school shootings. Anybody else think a political agenda was in play?
The cop handled the man fine, I am sure per procedure..... But was still wrong. He should have stayed out of it. That guy was not being beligerant or acting in a way that was threating. He was upset at not being listened to. Um..... This is America and we have been known to disagree with "the man". The first amendment is based on the idea that we will not be silenced when we disagree and our voice will be heard. Just because the bitch in charge gave an order does not mean the cop needed to follow it.
HoneyBadger
05-07-2014, 10:07
If I found out that my kids were being forced to read a book like this as a part of their public school curriculum, I would be IRATE.
Simple questions:
What is the educational value in reading this book?
What does it teach?
Is reading this book more valuable than reading about science, philosophy, history, etc?
You can answer the above questions on your own, but you get the point. Our tax dollars are paying for this education and YOU too should be upset. Public school teachers and administrators have a duty to be good stewards of the taxpayer's money and it is painfully apparent that they never considered the questions posed above.
Reason # 8365784 why I want to homeschool my kids.
I'm not sure that I would have done it the way this father did, but.
#1 - I am involved as much as I can in my children's education.
#2 - If the school "assigns" one of my children something I do not agree with I smply will tell my child they will not do it (IE: you will not read this book, because I do not agree with the content) And that is that, if the teacher wants to give my child a bad grade so be it... (sarcasm: no child is left behind now anyways so they literally don't have to do ANY work to advance to the next grade)
#3 - They are still my children and the school does not tell me what my child is ready emotionally to read. That is my job, not the school.
#4 - If I do not agree with schoolwork, I will go talk to the teacher. One professional to another. Because that is how I would like to be treated.
#5 - If I do not get the results I want I will go up the chain of command. Firm but Polite. Educators are professionals and are educated they can handle constructive discussion.
#6 - If I finally do not get the results I want See #2.
I'm not sure that I would have done it the way this father did, but.
#1 - I am involved as much as I can in my children's education.
#2 - If the school "assigns" one of my children something I do not agree with I smply will tell my child they will not do it (IE: you will not read this book, because I do not agree with the content) And that is that, if the teacher wants to give my child a bad grade so be it... (sarcasm: no child is left behind now anyways so they literally don't have to do ANY work to advance to the next grade)
#3 - They are still my children and the school does not tell me what my child is ready emotionally to read. That is my job, not the school.
#4 - If I do not agree with schoolwork, I will go talk to the teacher. One professional to another. Because that is how I would like to be treated.
#5 - If I do not get the results I want I will go up the chain of command. Firm but Polite. Educators are professionals and are educated they can handle constructive discussion.
#6 - If I finally do not get the results I want See #2.
Congrats... Parenting- you're doing it RIGHT!!! [Beer]
I see it too often, so many parents these days are perfectly content with the schools raising their children, then they wonder why they grow up totally fucked up.
Congrats... Parenting- you're doing it RIGHT!!! [Beer]
I see it too often, so many parents these days are perfectly content with the schools raising their children, then they wonder why they grow up totally fucked up.
One thing I have noticed in my life lessons is that once you start getting too emotional in a discussion. The other party tends to start to shut down and you cannot get your point across.
Just watching the video, Dad was out of order. Everyone else was able to wait their turn, why couldn't he? Whatever he wanted to say was lost when he lost control. I'd guess that he made some remarks before the video too.
Not sure why he was arrested. Usually they are just escorted out of the meeting and asked not to go back in.
clodhopper
05-07-2014, 12:02
Not sure why he was arrested. Usually they are just escorted out of the meeting and asked not to go back in.
I can only guess, and may be wrong, but I think the arrest was because he didn't cooperate with the cop. If he stood and followed the cop to the hall, he probably would have been told to cool off and think strongly about going home. The dad pushed it and forced the cop's hand, then continued his crap outside the room. I feel for the dad, but I don't see a problem with the cop. I might have been more generous and told the guy to just go home. The cop may have in fact done just that, and the dad told him to go ahead and make the arrest. There is significant conversation between the two that cannot be heard on the video.
Still, there is no excuse for that book to be considered for curriculum. Pick something else. I have met with my kids teachers before about assignments I had problems with. After explaining my issues, they offered alternative assignments. The only jackwagons I have been forced to suffer have been administrators who had some agenda to fulfill. I would have no issue with my kids pulling a zero on a bullchit assignment that was mandatory and could not be substituted.
This is probably a good lesson for folks with a CCW. There is a fine line between being asked to leave because you are carrying/doing so immediately and everything is hunky dory, and being asked to leave/trying to discuss the matter and now you have bracelets on or worse.
Getting emotional and overtly letting that emotion get out just serves to hurt youyr cause in any debate. Whenther it be this or 2A rights or anything you feel strongly about.
Whistler
05-07-2014, 13:00
The students were minors, the graphic sex is between two teens (presumably minors) why is this not distribution of child pornography to minors? As I understand it exemptions to pornography laws for "art/literature" do not extend to underage subjects (cherubs aside). If this book were a movie would my minor child need my permission/accompaniment to view it? A stretch but have the bastards defend themselves before a jury and I'd bet you'd see a different attitude. I suspect the cop may have perceived it somewhat differently in that light or I would like to think so. Kids are exposed to as much and worse daily but I object to public schools contributing to inappropriate exposure.
The students were minors, the graphic sex is between two teens (presumably minors) why is this not distribution of child pornography to minors? As I understand it exemptions to pornography laws for "art/literature" do not extend to underage subjects (cherubs aside). If this book were a movie would my minor child need my permission/accompaniment to view it? A stretch but have the bastards defend themselves before a jury and I'd bet you'd see a different attitude. I suspect the cop may have perceived it somewhat differently in that light or I would like to think so. Kids are exposed to as much and worse daily but I object to public schools contributing to inappropriate exposure.
Not only that, I question the normality of the author that thinks about the situation enough to write about it.
The students were minors, the graphic sex is between two teens (presumably minors) why is this not distribution of child pornography to minors? As I understand it exemptions to pornography laws for "art/literature" do not extend to underage subjects (cherubs aside). If this book were a movie would my minor child need my permission/accompaniment to view it? A stretch but have the bastards defend themselves before a jury and I'd bet you'd see a different attitude. I suspect the cop may have perceived it somewhat differently in that light or I would like to think so. Kids are exposed to as much and worse daily but I object to public schools contributing to inappropriate exposure.
I agree, however, the law is a bit different from how I had it interpreted to me- Animated/cartoons that depict sexual acts between two "minors" (yes, some sick folks get their jollies off not only to animation porn but also underage animation porn [Puke]) are excluded from the statute of "possession of child pornography." So I would imagine that a fictional story featuring said acts wouldn't constitute an offense in that case. Still, I sure as shit wouldn't want my children (age dependent) being forced to read that shit for school.
Not only that, I question the normality of the author that thinks about the situation enough to write about it.
Exactly... See above. There are some sick fvcks out there... some of them are even published authors! Who have their works featured in schools! [Shake]
Welcome to the new Amerika, where if it were for our fucked up morals, we wouldn't have any at all!
68Charger
05-07-2014, 17:37
This is probably a good lesson for folks with a CCW. There is a fine line between being asked to leave because you are carrying/doing so immediately and everything is hunky dory, and being asked to leave/trying to discuss the matter and now you have bracelets on or worse.
Getting emotional and overtly letting that emotion get out just serves to hurt youyr cause in any debate. Whenther it be this or 2A rights or anything you feel strongly about.
^^^This^^^
I understand, your child is involved and it's not over if your child still attends the school- so hand over an "intent to disentroll" letter (bring one with you to every school board meeting you attend.)
When you feel your voice is not being heard, ask them to accept the letter- if they will not, then tell them you will send them a copy via certified mail.
One or two doing this won't scare them- but if enough people stand up and say no more, then you will have their attention (they lose funding when you disenroll)
Only one of our children are in a "public" school (it's an online program, we can fully monitor the curriculum)... the others are either graduated, home-schooled, or in a charter school.
I believe this news story does a relatively good job of explaining the two separate issues:
http://www.wmur.com/news/man-says-free-speech-rights-violated-in-arrest-over-book/25834676
Some parents consider the book inappropriate and in order to hear as many people speak on the issue, the school board limited each speaker to two minutes. Mr. Baer had his two minutes, however, he was not satisfied and chose to take time from other citizens who wished to speak. He was asked to leave and told the officer that he would not leave unless he was being arrested...so he was arrested. IMO, Mr. Baer has entered the world of "civil disobedience." His case will be heard by a judge and he will be given many chances to appeal his case if he so chooses.
No one was hurt and the inappropriate book issue has got the attention that many of the parents desired. Sounds like the wheels of government are working pretty well in Gilford, NH.
On a side note, according to the story this book has been used in the Honors English class since 2007. I'm surprised it has taken five years for someone to make a public issue about the book. I would agree with rbeau30. If you send your children to anyone for any reason, you remain the parent and have a legal and moral right/obligation to do what you believe is right for your child. Advocate when necessary, discuss with the teachers regularly, refuse to permit or allow anything you as a parent find to be harmful to your child. Be respectful of others and steadfast in your principles when it comes to your children.
hollohas
05-07-2014, 18:15
No one was hurt and the inappropriate book issue has got the attention that many of the parents desired. Sounds like the wheels of government are working pretty well in Gilford, NH.
On a side note, according to the story this book has been used in the Honors English class since 2007. I'm surprised it has taken five years for someone to make a public issue about the book.
It took that long because no one forced the police to arrest them while arguing against it before. The ONLY reason this became a public issue is because of the Dad. The wheels of government weren't working there, it's this citizen's protest and willingness to face consequences that got those wheels turning. So good for him. Now the school is under pressure. I'm sure the Dad thinks getting a fine is worth it.
Making this public is far better than the school quietly teaching this trash to the 95% or whatever kids since 2007 who's parents either approve of this or those whose parents aren't involved enough to know about it and opt them out.
If you send your children to anyone for any reason, you remain the parent and have a legal and moral right/obligation to do what you believe is right for your child. Advocate when necessary, discuss with the teachers regularly, refuse to permit or allow anything you as a parent find to be harmful to your child. Be respectful of others and steadfast in your principles when it comes to your children.
There are too many parents who have NO beliefs. They trust fully (i believe because they are lazy) in the public school system, day care, church groups, whatever to teach their children for them. I believe the family unit has broken down, and many of the problems we are seeing are directly related to absent parents who do not make it their business and responsibility to get involved in a child's development. Parents are NOT 'buddies' or 'BFFs'. You created a child, it is your duty to give the child the most skills they can get to survive in society and not be a burden on it.
Both my wife and I are Divorced, and unfortunately we have to be the 'bad guys' because we have rules and bed times, and make the children accountable for what they do... but you know what? I can sleep at night because I explain to them why the rules are what they are and the real life consequences of ... for example staying up all night and sleeping through an alarm when you have to go to work/school in the morning. And I can say have done my best.
There are too many parents who have NO beliefs. ... And I can say have done my best.
We are agreed [Beer]
HoneyBadger
05-07-2014, 19:45
There are too many parents who have NO beliefs. They trust fully (i believe because they are lazy) in the public school system, day care, church groups, whatever to teach their children for them. I believe the family unit has broken down, and many of the problems we are seeing are directly related to absent parents who do not make it their business and responsibility to get involved in a child's development. Parents are NOT 'buddies' or 'BFFs'. You created a child, it is your duty to give the child the most skills they can get to survive in society and not be a burden on it.
AMEN! [Beer]
This is why we're going to home school. I'm not a big fan of the currnt public indoctrination...I mean education system.
sellersm
05-08-2014, 11:15
Here's the full story. The man was interviewed Tuesday night on Hagmann & Hagmann's blogtalkradio show. Here's the article from Doug Hagmann: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/62941
There's also a snippet from the book in the article. I'd be livid if a teacher made my kid read that crap...
Aloha_Shooter
05-08-2014, 11:54
If I found out that my kids were being forced to read a book like this as a part of their public school curriculum, I would be IRATE.
Simple questions:
What is the educational value in reading this book?
What does it teach?
Is reading this book more valuable than reading about science, philosophy, history, etc?
You can answer the above questions on your own, but you get the point. Our tax dollars are paying for this education and YOU too should be upset. Public school teachers and administrators have a duty to be good stewards of the taxpayer's money and it is painfully apparent that they never considered the questions posed above.
Reason # 8365784 why I want to homeschool my kids.
Well, you know, reading Jonathan Swift or Mark Twain or any of the other stuff I had to read in high school wouldn't teach your kids that guns are bad, sex is good, religion closes minds so is bad, heterosexual European males are the root of all evil, etc. God forbid your kids read any Zane Grey, Louis L'Amour, or James Fenimore Cooper; it might inspire them to be self-sufficient instead of relying on the government to provide for all their needs!
I think the raciest thing I ever had on a high school reading list was "Slaughterhouse Five" -- and I'm not sure why any school feels the need to teach to Ms. Piccoult's material.
Here's the full story. The man was interviewed Tuesday night on Hagmann & Hagmann's blogtalkradio show. Here's the article from Doug Hagmann: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/62941
There's also a snippet from the book in the article. I'd be livid if a teacher made my kid read that crap...
You consider that "the full story?" I would consider this article as Mr. Baer's side of the story with an obvious slant by the author against the school board.
It is apparent that Mr. Baer will contest the Disorderly Conduct charge, as is his right. Maybe the city attorney or the judge will toss the charge to make it go away, however, just based on the video linked in the OP, Mr. Baer was given the opportunity to speak, he exceeded the time everyone was allotted, he was asked to leave and chose to stay, his actions disrupted the public meeting, therefore IMO, Mr. Baer is guilty of charge of Disorderly Conduct. If he knowingly chose to violate the law in order to bring attention to this issue, it is a clear case of civil disobedience, which I have no problem with.
When people disagree with a law and they knowingly break the law to point out the injustice of the law, that is free speech.
I'm not defending the book in question or it's use in a 9th grade Honors English class. I am defending the police officer and the right of anyone who is conducting public business to do so in an orderly manner. There were other ways Mr. Baer could have addressed the issue. He acted how he acted and the fine, if he is convicted of the charge, is $1200. Based on current advertising rates I would say that is cheap publicity for the issue he chose to raise with the school board. I would assume there are people who are already donating to help defray his out of pocket expenses.
funkymonkey1111
05-08-2014, 16:07
You consider that "the full story?" I would consider this article as Mr. Baer's side of the story with an obvious slant by the author against the school board.
It is apparent that Mr. Baer will contest the Disorderly Conduct charge, as is his right. Maybe the city attorney or the judge will toss the charge to make it go away, however, just based on the video linked in the OP, Mr. Baer was given the opportunity to speak, he exceeded the time everyone was allotted, he was asked to leave and chose to stay, his actions disrupted the public meeting, therefore IMO, Mr. Baer is guilty of charge of Disorderly Conduct. If he knowingly chose to violate the law in order to bring attention to this issue, it is a clear case of civil disobedience, which I have no problem with.
When people disagree with a law and they knowingly break the law to point out the injustice of the law, that is free speech.
I'm not defending the book in question or it's use in a 9th grade Honors English class. I am defending the police officer and the right of anyone who is conducting public business to do so in an orderly manner. There were other ways Mr. Baer could have addressed the issue. He acted how he acted and the fine, if he is convicted of the charge, is $1200. Based on current advertising rates I would say that is cheap publicity for the issue he chose to raise with the school board. I would assume there are people who are already donating to help defray his out of pocket expenses.
You seem pretty pro-state. You know, sometimes the state doesn't really give a shit what the citizen has to say. Ever run across that situation? Or, is your approach for citizens to comply?
kidicarus13
05-08-2014, 16:17
Didn't listen to the topic the school board was talking about but I thought 1:09 was ironic... "This is ridiculous" Sir, your outburst was ridiculous.
You seem pretty pro-state. You know, sometimes the state doesn't really give a shit what the citizen has to say. Ever run across that situation? Or, is your approach for citizens to comply?
I'm pretty much anti anarchy. I believe in just about everything having a time and a place to be appropriate. I recognize the benefits and limits of individuals as well as the limits and benefits of government. I do not believe in an invisible, anonymous "state." I believe that individuals assemble and cooperate to accomplish common goals. To do that they institute laws and cede some autonomy to the group/government in order to accomplish the agreed upon "common good." While majorities often rule, there are times and circumstances when the rights of individuals may not (should not) be violated even when there is a "common good" being obstructed.
Was I unclear above when I wrote that I believe and support the right of free speech and civil disobedience?
When the citizen does not comply with the law, the citizen should recognize there are consequences to that choice. If you don't like the law then work to change the law. I believe this is even more true when the citizen has a voice in electing representatives who make the law.
BushMasterBoy
05-08-2014, 16:48
You seem pretty pro-state. You know, sometimes the state doesn't really give a shit what the citizen has to say. Ever run across that situation? Or, is your approach for citizens to comply?
I bet if the local judge was out of order at the meeting, the cop would have not done anything. I don't know if the guy arrested would be allowed a jury trial. Some misdemeanors you don't get the option of a jury. I personally see this a First Amendment violation, being arrested for being vocal. I am not a cop or a parent. But you are right, the "system" is really screwed up! The lesson is if you are going to be civilly disobedient, make sure you way outnumber the enforcers. They can't arrest everybody! Kinda like what the blacks did in the 50's and 60's. If you are going to "lone wolf" it you don't have a chance.
Now if I could get decent medical care from the VA local clinic I would be really happy...maybe they will investigate that too! Sorry my two minutes is up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryVWfATBT9M
For me, this story provides a good reason to protest against public schools. These types of incidents are far more common than anyone should accept.
http://www.9news.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/07/maryland-high-school-rape/8803161/
This story is truly sad to hear.
What if school officials gave him more warnings?
What if he got upset with lower decibels?
What if school officials were apologetic earlier?
Finally,
What if the school did not use offensive materials at the first place?
This tragic incident would have never happened.
As I always said, some school dist. lacks of common sense.
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