25 Years Ago: Philadelphia Police Bomb Group's HQ

[rbeau30]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4651126

From a Helicopter! Interesting history lesson.



Twenty years ago, Philadelphia's Osage Avenue was the site of a stunning use of force by city police. After a long standoff, police dropped a bomb on the headquarters of a radical group called MOVE, sparking a fire that gutted a neighborhood and left 11 people dead. Five were children.

Well now it is more than 20 years ago, but you get the idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_city_that_bombed_itself#1985_bombing

[Irving]

This is part of the reading list when one starts researching Ruby Ridge and Waco. The other noteworthy is the Rainbow place.

[rbeau30]

Yeah talk about Militerization of a Police Force. I picked up "Rise of the Warrior Cop" to read this week and weekend, I am sure I will be very entertained.

[crays]

Twenty years ago, Philadelphia's Osage Avenue was the site of a stunning use of force by city police. After a long standoff, police dropped a bomb on the headquarters of a radical group called MOVE, sparking a fire that gutted a neighborhood and left 11 people dead. Five were children.

I'm not 100% convinced that the satchel charge was the primary cause for the fire. I am of a mind that the fire may have been set inside, as a strategic measure by the MOVE folks to garner support against the city/PD, and it went horribly wrong. Still, the bomb was a 4lb satchel charge of tovex (?) and C4. Dropped on a row house, in a crowded Philly neighborhood. Wow.

[SuperiorDG]

For those with netflixs

http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/70274329?trkid=13462061

[Aloha_Shooter]

Y'know, it's lovely people keep blaming Philadelphia PD for that and no one points out MOVE was storing hundreds of gallons of gasoline on the roof or shooting at firemen who tried to show up. I was attending college in Philadelphia at that time frame and I'm really tired of people making MOVE out to be some kind of blameless victims and the Philly PD out to be Brown Shirts or something like that. These are the same pickle-heads supporting Mumia Abu-Jamal.

[Great-Kazoo]

People also forget, or not old enough to remember the Philly police cheif and mayor challenged toe Move & Black Panthers to a gunfight.

[rbeau30]

Y'know, it's lovely people keep blaming Philadelphia PD for that and no one points out MOVE was storing hundreds of gallons of gasoline on the roof or shooting at firemen who tried to show up. I was attending college in Philadelphia at that time frame and I'm really tired of people making MOVE out to be some kind of blameless victims and the Philly PD out to be Brown Shirts or something like that. These are the same pickle-heads supporting Mumia Abu-Jamal.

I am not in agreement with either side... Actually.

This story is supposed to invoke some ideas in what could have been done better. Because I AM assuming the PD did not willy nilly come to the conclusion, "lets drop a bomb on it!" And if they already knew that the folks were storing hundreds of gallons of gas on the roof in which they dropped the bomb on (satchel charge whatever). A 'bomb' is a noun describing a device used as a weapon that explodes and 'To bomb' is a verb describing the action of dropping, hurling or to explode such device, so the title is accurate.


Another Edit: One of the horrible things about being a servant of the public is that it is the public's right to discuss the actions of these folks. I hope that the subsequent discussion stays constructive.

[Irving]

No statement on MOVE from me either.

[crays]

Y'know, it's lovely people keep blaming Philadelphia PD for that and no one points out MOVE was storing hundreds of gallons of gasoline on the roof or shooting at firemen who tried to show up...


I'm not 100% convinced that the satchel charge was the primary cause for the fire. I am of a mind that the fire may have been set inside, as a strategic measure by the MOVE folks to garner support against the city/PD...

[Aloha_Shooter]

The Philly PD absolutely did NOT know MOVE was storing gasoline on the roof. They were as shocked as anyone else at what ensued. I have my own issues with then-Mayor Wilson (No) Goode but the NPR spin is just twaddle.

[Great-Kazoo]

The Philly PD absolutely did NOT know MOVE was storing gasoline on the roof. They were as shocked as anyone else at what ensued. I have my own issues with then-Mayor Wilson (No) Goode but the NPR spin is just twaddle.

The Move rep also said they would not be taken alive.

When it is people of color, it is a grave injustice.

When it is a "religious" compound, it's a bunch of white extremist, zealots gun owners, with contempt for government.

[ZERO THEORY]

The police dropped an explosive device on an occupied civilian structure. Save the Liberals/Blacks/PC crowd-doesn't-tell-you-X gibberish for another time.


It doesn't matter if members of the KKK hang ten Black folks on live TV while reciting their social security numbers. There is supposed to be due process and a Constitutional right to trial with a chance to defend yourself. Period; no ifs, ands, buts, or actuallys.

[BushMasterBoy]

The police were out of control then and they still are now. We saw it in Philly. We have seen it at Waco and we have seen it where the sun don't shine in Deming! Obama sets a good example with his killer drones and has killed dozens of innocents. I'm glad the OP reminds us the tragedies caused by law enforcement though I tend to blame The President, The Governors and the Attorney Generals who seem to condone this behavior. There are a lot of good cops out there, but are there any good politicians?

[Aloha_Shooter]

ZERO THEORY, there WAS due process. The police were attempting forced entry after active armed resistance of said due process. "The police" were not out of control then nor are they mostly out of control now. MOVE was not only violating the law and resisting lawful eviction after substantial due process, they were annoying and endangering other residents in the area and firing on the cops. I'm sure it's tempting for the uninformed to equate the MOVE fire and the Branch Davidian compound but there are distinct differences. The Davidians could have been cordoned off without entering their compound and Koresh could have been arrested easily in downtown Waco. The MOVE members had piles of waste (including feces) creating unsanitary conditions for other local residents, broadcasting their messages at all hours using bullhorns, and engaged in active gunfire against police. Spare me the ignorant anarchic BS right out of Occupy S--- and Nonsensical Proletarian Reports.

[BushMasterBoy]

If everything was so hunkydory was was the survivor of the MOVE house awarded over a million dollars in damages? 60 houses were burned to the ground? Oh I get it, the "police" were in control, it was the firefighters that were out of control? More cops defending cops? Forum seems to become a platform for the police state.

[Gman]

More cops defending cops? Forum seems to become a platform for the police state.
Not sure where you're going with that comment.

There are at least 2 sides to the story and it's being discussed. If the police had done nothing, then you'd also have people stating that they were neglecting to do their duty. Then you also have those that say the should have acted but in hindsight make the statement that they shouldn't have acted in the way they did.

We can Monday morning quarterback this stuff to death. It's not worth getting butt-hurt about it.

[Great-Kazoo]

If everything was so hunkydory was was the survivor of the MOVE house awarded over a million dollars in damages? 60 houses were burned to the ground? Oh I get it, the "police" were in control, it was the firefighters that were out of control? More cops defending cops? Forum seems to become a platform for the police state.

You have to have been there or watching it on the tv, while it was happening.

[Aloha_Shooter]

MOVE was out of control. That damage award was sheer stupidity but it's not like we haven't seen stupid juries award idiotic damages before. I'm sure MOVE didn't expect the police to try to blow a hole in their fortified roof compound anymore than the police expected the idiots to store gasoline up there or fire on firefighters. I'm not a policeman, don't have any relatives that I know of in the police department, just someone who happened to be living in Philadelphia at the time. As I said before, this is more twaddle from the same morons who defend Mumia Abu-Jamal.

[ZERO THEORY]

nor are they mostly out of control now.

I almost quit reading in the 2nd sentence. But that would be bullheaded and hypocritical. I won't even begin to dive into why I think that suggestion is preposterous, but I want you to at least know that I think it is.


Spare me the ignorant anarchic BS right out of Occupy S--- and Nonsensical Proletarian Reports.

So...wanting there to be some sort of accountability and curbing the cops from using bombs is anarchist, Occupy rhetoric?

I am aware that the MOVE members were using the cowardly tactic of hiding behind women and children. I am also aware that they were lashing out against unarmed civil employees, opening fire, and declaring war on the establishment. I have read up on the incident before, thank you. But as far as I'm concerned, there isn't an acceptable quota of collateral damage when it comes to American lives in a neighborhood siege. Here are some ideas off the top of my head:

-Shut down the water, electrical, and gas systems.
-Launch tear gas canisters at random intervals.
-Play obscenely loud music over PAs.
-Use strobed light


With no way to eat, drink, or sleep, they'll literally have no choice but to come out in a matter of days. Children and women who have no dog in the fight won't be dead or permanently injured, and you can capture the socially disruptive leaders and make them stand trial, as opposed to making martyrs of them. Just spitballing.