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Gman
05-13-2014, 20:58
The effort is designed to change the firearms industry through the power of the municipal purse.

http://money.msn.com/investing/post--cities-begin-asking-gun-makers-tough-questions



Jersey City has begun requiring gun companies that supply its police department with weapons to disclose more about their business practices, an effort that is being watched by law-enforcement agencies in other cities.

Gun-control advocates and firearms industry representatives said Jersey City is the first municipality in the nation to demand such information.

Questions include how firms dispose of old weapons and comply with background-check laws, and whether they make semiautomatic rifles -- often called assault weapons -- for sale to civilians, according to bid documents viewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The requirement went into effect earlier this year for gun and ammunition contracts worth at least $500,000 for Jersey City's 800-member police force. The purpose: to try to change the firearms industry through the power of the city purse.

"It shows municipalities and police departments have the ability to shape the dialogue," said Steve Fulop, the Democratic mayor of New Jersey's second-largest city, about gun buying.

The effort is setting up a fight with gun makers and supporters of Second Amendment rights.

"These politicians are politicizing the purchase of firearms for law enforcement, when law enforcement should be able to buy whatever best suits their needs," said Andrew Arulanandam, managing director of public affairs for the National Rifle Association.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, a leading firearms trade association, is monitoring Jersey City's efforts and studying legal action. "It's an issue that could be of industry concern," said Lawrence Keane, the Connecticut-based gun-rights group's senior vice president and general counsel.

There is skepticism that law-enforcement agencies could have much impact on the nation's $15 billion market for guns and ammunition. Jersey City typically purchases about $250,000 in ammunition and guns each year -- more this year because more police officers are being hired—a tiny piece of the market.

Even if other police departments demanded such information, a survey of large firearms manufacturers found that law enforcement accounted for up to 10 percent of their total sales, said Maksim Soshkin, guns and ammunition industry analyst for IBISWorld, a market-research firm. Mr. Soshkin was skeptical that the industry would change in response to the wishes of a small segment of the market. Daniel Feldman, an associate professor of public management at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, called the effort promising.

Further, gun suppliers who bid to sell to police departments like Jersey City's are often middlemen who don't have much influence over larger ideological issues, such as whether military-style rifles should be legal.

The two companies that are bidding for Jersey City business -- Atlantic Tactical of Pennsylvania and Lawmen Supply Co. of Pennsauken, N.J. -- are respected regional companies that sell to law enforcement but aren't national household names.

Nevertheless, Mr. Fulop, who took office last July, has been trying to rally other mayors to his cause, securing verbal support from Seattle Mayor Ed Murray. "We are very interested in exploring this initiative in Seattle," said Mr. Murray, who like Mr. Fulop is a Democrat.

So far, about two dozen law-enforcement agencies across six states -- including in Cleveland, Durham, N.C., Cook County in Illinois, New Rochelle, N.Y., and New Haven, Conn. -- have agreed to ask a different set of questions from Jersey City's, requesting manufacturers' standards in choosing dealers and if they are developing gun safety technologies. About 20 communities in southern Florida are also moving forward with a disclosure effort.

"This is simply allowing cities to be informed consumers," said Casey Woods, founder of Arms With Ethics, a Florida nonprofit advocating for disclosures in police arms purchasing.

Gun-control advocates also see the disclosure effort as a new way to tackle the issue after Congress didn't pass new firearms restrictions after the Newtown, Conn., school shooting in December 2012.

Activists hope that public police departments can leverage their purchasing power to push gun manufacturers to invest in safer weapons and not sell to retailers that have track records of selling to criminals.

In Jersey City, local officials had long gone through the state to purchase its service weapons, but Mr. Fulop decided to take over the bidding process. In December, the city put out a request for bids with six questions, but got no responses.

City officials revised the form, removing two questions -- does the company fund research related to gun violence and safety technology, and does it lend its brand name to violent video games. One question was added, on the handling of guns the city puts out of service, which are often traded back to the supplier for a discount.

The companies' responses differed primarily in their policies on handling old arms traded in by police departments. But officials at both said they didn't mind answering the questions.

"Ultimately, as long the questions aren't asking confidential information, I'd certainly share with anybody what our sales practices are because they are ethical and certainly legal," said Sean Conville, president of Atlantic Tactical.

Chris Ferrari, president of Lawmen, said he would consider opting out of future bids if Jersey City sought to restrict how the company conducted business. "This is definitely a different type of questioning," he said.

Well, isn't that lovely. They will never stop.

KestrelBike
05-13-2014, 21:02
Hopefully those gun companies tell NJ to GO POUND SAND. Then when no one wants to supply their PD departments, their lovely union reps can go after the stupid NJ gov stooges that started this BS in the first place. Pompous a-holes.

Great-Kazoo
05-13-2014, 21:06
it's all about the money.

jmg8550
05-13-2014, 21:11
Hey gun companies....MOVE!
things will only get worse and worse for them. Places like Jersey City will never get any friendlier to to these companies.

Zundfolge
05-13-2014, 21:19
Hopefully those gun companies tell NJ to GO POUND SAND.

I think the top people at said gun companies should have a short conversation with Ronnie Barrett ... he'll set 'em straight on how to handle these situations.

Ridge
05-13-2014, 21:30
Questions include how firms dispose of old weapons and comply with background-check laws

Neither of which the manufacturers have any control over?

Aloha_Shooter
05-13-2014, 21:49
I'd like them to all use the Barrett solution and tell Jersey City they don't need their business. Jersey City residents can pee themselves, I have it on good authority from Colorado Democrats that it's sufficient to protect against rapists and other violent offenders.

Irving
05-13-2014, 22:00
If 10% market share controlled manufacturing, there might still be decent vehicles available in the US.

buffalobo
05-13-2014, 22:16
The effort is designed to change the firearms industry through the power of the municipal purse.

http://money.msn.com/investing/post--cities-begin-asking-gun-makers-tough-questions




Well, isn't that lovely. They will never stop.


Another step on the path...

cstone
05-13-2014, 22:19
The best answer is to win the bid with the lowest price but refuse to supply the requested information. When the city takes a higher bid, make certain the tax payers in that jurisdiction know that they are paying more money for the same product based on some political notion that their law makers need information that no other government is asking for. If the tax payers care, they will let the politicians know. If the tax payers don't care, they deserve to get soaked.

People really do get the government the vote for. Its just hard for the rest of us living in the minority.

spqrzilla
05-14-2014, 00:34
Smith & Wesson can explain this to all the other makers. Civilian sales are the profit centers, not LEO.

BPTactical
05-14-2014, 07:40
This smells of Bloomberg.
Remember late last summer when I posted a blurb on Northglenns "Gun Safe Rebate Program"?
The program was started upon recommendation of the "Urban Mayors League" or whatever they call it.
Bloomy has a hand in it.

MarkCO
05-14-2014, 08:49
It is still a free market. If gun companies are complicit in the effort, and get exposed, they will go under. That is their choice to make. If gun companies refuse to be complicit and the regulations are in effect, those cities won't have guns and ammo, or will have to pay higher prices. I say let the cowards do what they want...it will only serve to damage those who would do harm to the 2nd Amendment anyway. There are a lot of slimy jerks in the gun industry who will do anything for a buck...maybe a good way for us to rid ourselves of some of them who care only abut the greenbacks and their own skins. The general consumer demand for guns and ammo is on a rise still, so I don't really see their backdoor efforts as gaining them any benefit.

Teufelhund
05-14-2014, 09:49
Random thought occurred to me while reading the article:

If the government is allowed to force bakers and photographers to provide goods and services to people they would otherwise prefer not to do business with due to personal, ideological differences, does this lay the groundwork to force a firearms manufacturer to provide products to law enforcement agencies? In other words, if you don't have the right to refuse service on religious grounds, are you eventually going to lose the right to refuse service based on political grounds?

BPTactical
05-14-2014, 09:51
Random thought occurred to me while reading the article:

If the government is allowed to force bakers and photographers to provide goods and services to people they would otherwise prefer not to do business with due to personal, ideological differences, does this lay the groundwork to force a firearms manufacturer to provide products to law enforcement agencies? In other words, if you don't have the right to refuse service on religious grounds, are you eventually going to lose the right to refuse service based on political grounds?

Valid point.
It really does cause one to ask the question: "Do we really have a free market system?"

hatidua
05-14-2014, 11:23
"These politicians are politicizing the purchase of firearms for law enforcement, when law enforcement should be able to buy whatever best suits their needs," said Andrew Arulanandam, managing director of public affairs for the National Rifle Association.

I'm just all teary-eyed about that... [Neene1] much like I'd be completely comfortable with CO police/sheriff's being unable to buy new magazines over 15rds. Good for goose/good for gander.

Gman
05-14-2014, 15:19
The problem with that idea is that the lawless won't abide by the arbitrary 15 round limit anyway.

I like making a point about the stupidity of passing laws to stop those that break them, but sacrificing police officers lives to make that point sickens me.

Sent from my electronic leash.

Hound
05-14-2014, 16:45
If the cops don't want guns.... All the more for us. I just dislike that this really boils down to the cop on the street... Who may need the gun, suffers for a management decision that is politically motivated.

TFOGGER
05-14-2014, 17:41
If the cops don't want guns.... All the more for us. I just dislike that this really boils down to the cop on the street... Who may need the gun, suffers for a management decision that is politically motivated.

Exactly. This is a policy decision, made for the purpose of political posturing, by douchebags that face exactly zero consequences for their actions, that are surrounded by security that is armed to the teeth with the very guns they want to remove from us. Assholes.