Short, light, semi-auto hunting rifle

[michael_aos]

After hauling my Remington 700 SPS stainless in 270 WSM with a Leupold VX-L 3.5-10x50mm through the woods in Eastern Oklahoma / Western Arkansas, I have a better idea of what I think would work well for hogs in that area.

According to our host, they can get as big as 350lbs, but that's exceedingly rare. More like 150-200lbs is much more common. 200yds would be considered a very long shot. 100yds being much more common.

Figure roughly 30-30 Winchester class cartridge at minimum.

I was looking at AR-15 based cartridges, such as 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 300 Whisper, 300 RAR, etc -- but they all seem to be on the low-end power-wise, especially with a 16"-18" bbl.

I was toying with a 16" AR-10, but you're at ~9lbs right out of the gate.

Seems like the Remington Model 750 carbine would be darned-near perfect. Can't decide between 308 or 30-06 though.

Any other options I'm overlooking?

[GunTroll]

I'm not the authority but I hate semi for hunting. Fast follow up means squat to me. I'm not trying to sound cocky but the first one is your best shot. My father-in law likes his remington 7400??? I think that's right. Quick light somewhat dependable. I'm thinking your lever action idea is better. iron sights,rear aperture,low power scope adjustable or not would be my choice. I like my marlin 94 in 44mag for close up shooting. I even put a leupold vxIII 1.5-5 on it for a while but liked my rear aperture sight better. Decisions,decisions!

[michael_aos]

I shouldn't have even used "hunting" in the title. I'm not really talking about traditional hunting.

More like large varminting.

The idea is to shoot / kill as many pigs as possible. Sort of like shooting rats at a garbage-dump. Even if you have no intention of eating any of them.

There can be 10 or more in a "unit" (herd?). Our host said his personal record was 6 hogs with 5 shots.

Mike

[Irving]

Suppressor is the answer to this question too!

[SA Friday]

Read a while back some guys in Texas are using their AR's in .223 loaded with 77gr Barnes TSX bullets on hogs. Apparently, they drop them on the spot.

You can always look at a Benelli R1 in 300WM...

[michael_aos]

I'm still fuzzy on that piece. Oklahoma DOW says suppressors are illegal for "hunting".

But killing hogs doesn't fit their definition of "hunting".

So I still don't really know if suppressors are legal for hog-killing in Oklahoma.

Mike

[michael_aos]

You can always look at a Benelli R1 in 300WM...

I looked at the R1 a little. It's heavier and has a longer barrel and is more-expensive than the Remington Model 750.

Figure a gun in this environment is going to get pretty banged up.

Mike

[GunTroll]

I shouldn't have even used "hunting" in the title. I'm not really talking about traditional hunting.

More like large varminting.

The idea is to shoot / kill as many pigs as possible. Sort of like shooting rats at a garbage-dump. Even if you have no intention of eating any of them.

There can be 10 or more in a "unit" (herd?). Our host said his personal record was 6 hogs with 5 shots.

Mike

I think you need an AK with some sort of red dot sight installed. 30+rounds and better hiting than 223. Maybe other AR platforms but AK's are cheaper. I knew guys in GA that whent this route.

[SA Friday]

Sorry, my bad, they are 70gr TSX bullets

Here: http://www.barnesbullets.com/information/high-speed-video/

Check out the Triple shock bullet vid on the bottom of the page. I think 223 hog death is very possible with one of these.

[michael_aos]

AK's are cheaper. I knew guys in GA that whent this route.

You're on the right track, and I was thinking along the same lines.

I was thinking it would be a pain to mount any sort of scope and / or get "hunting" 7.62x39mm ammo.

Don't AK's tend to be pretty heavy as well? (I don't know much about AK's)

Mike

[Irving]

With the suppressor thing, you'll just have to ask the DOW like you did. Some places specify that you can't use NFA weapons for hunting game animals, but pests, feral, and predators are fine. Other states you can do whatever you want. There is a thread on Silencer Talk about this, with a map and everything, but I don't remember what Oklahoma's status was.

[michael_aos]

Wikipedia specs:

5.56mm -- 77gr @ 2697fps = 1243 ft/lbs (16" bbl)

7.62x39mm -- 123gr @ 2300fps = 1480 ft/lbs
7.62x39mm -- 154gr @ 2104fps = 1519 ft/lbs

41 Mag -- 170gr JHP @ 2075fps = 1625 ft/lbs (16" bbl)
41 Mag -- 230gr SWC @ 1805fps = 1663 ft/lbs (16" bbl)

44 Mag -- 225gr FTX @ 1870fps = 1747 ft/lbs (rifle)

6.8 SPC -- 115gr @ 2625fps = 1759 ft/lbs (24" bbl)

30-30 Win -- 130gr @ 2496fps = 1799 ft/lbs
30-30 Win -- 150gr @ 2390fps = 1903 ft/lbs
30-30 Win -- 160gr FTX@ 2400fps = 2046 ft/bls (24" bbl)

25 WSSM -- 110gr @ 3100fps = 2347 ft/lbs (24" bbl?)
25 WSSM -- 120gr @ 2990fps = 2383 ft/lbs (24" bbl?)
25 WSSM -- 115gr @ 3060fps = 2392 ft/lbs (24" bbl?)

308 Win - 150gr @ 2820fps = 2648 ft/lbs (24" bbl)
308 Win - 180gr @ 2740fps = 3000 ft/lbs (24" bbl)

45/70 -- 325gr @ 2000fps = 2886 ft/lbs

30-06 -- 150gr @ 2900fps = 2820ft/lbs (24" bbl)
30-06 -- 180gr @ 2900fps = 3315ft/lbs (24" bbl)

[theGinsue]

I'm still thinking that a lever-action 35 Remington, 44 Mag, or 45 Colt would be my choice - with a 45 Colt sidearm in case they get too close.

[michael_aos]

I'm still thinking that a lever-action 35 Remington, 44 Mag, or 45 Colt would be my choice - with a 45 Colt sidearm in case they get too close.

I was carrying a S&W Model 357PD (41 Mag) and I've got a Marlin 1894SS41 LTD (16" .41 mag) lever-action.

41 Mag (http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4253&highlight=buffalo+bore)

Energy level is still less than a 30-30 though, and I can shoot a semi-auto a lot faster than a lever-action.

Mike

[michael_aos]

I was thinking a C&R SKS might make a lot of sense.

But not sure there's a decent scope mount available, and still ~1.25lb or more heavier than a Model 750.

[Colorado Osprey]

Mike Milli, the gentleman that pioneered the WSSM platform in the AR-15 has many wildcats from these cartridges.

He made one in 30 caliber that his customers are reporting velocities as high as a 30-06 with the same weight bullet. For example if the 30-06 was shooting 150 grain bullets at 2900ft/sec the 30 cal WSSM wilcat was duplicating or exceeding those results. This puts the 30RAR to shame as it can't even equal the 308 ballistics.


I'm not sure, but I belive this is the same cartridge that Olympic Arms is going to maket this fall called the 300 Olympic.

Long story short, these are already available through Mike Milli at www.dtechsuperstore.com
Mike is in the middle of moving his shop, and with the newish President, black rifle sales being at an all time high, Mike is about 6-8 months out on builds.

Soon to follow from Olympic Arms will versions in 6.5mm and 7mm
They are also working on a .458" version that exceeds 45-70 velocity.. making the 450 Bushmaster look like a plinker... not a hunter.

These will all be in the AR-15 platform ... not the AR-10 platform as they areall based off of the WSSM line of cartridges.

Maybe not your cup of tea, but worth a look into??

[GANDER]

Why? Unless you just want an AR but I would go with a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem.

[michael_aos]

Why? Unless you just want an AR but I would go with a Marlin 336 in 35 Rem.

One thing I forgot to to mention. Lots of on-and-off vehicles throughout the day.

So a detachable box magazine is a real plus.

Mike

[GunTroll]

On the weight of an AK...Mines not bad. I put an Aimpoint on mine and its deadly. I bought an Ultimak rail system for like $90. I would just use whatever grain bullet you find but get the hollow point. With the intent of ridding these pest I think that ammo is just fine. AK is cheaper than an AR these days for sure assuming you don't already have one. I like the ttsx bullets as the other guy said for hunting 223 rounds. Good combo in an AR used for hunting. AK ammo is cheaper by a bit as well.

[babirl]

Just posted a 6.8 SPC "success story" and there are MANY others out there... VERY IMPRESSED!

I also have a 458 SOCOM inbound, but the 6.8 is super interesting as the development has come along; current SSA loads are way beyond the initial loads and reloaders are even better. The SSA 110gr Barnes and Sierra bullets are devastating; however, there's a lot of interest in the 85gr Barnes TSX because even SSA commercial ammo is approaching 3100fps... Let's just say "pentration" isn't a problem!

[michael_aos]

Figure a lever-action 30-30 for around $400.

6.8 SPC upper. $600?

Remington Model 750 synthetic carbine, I'm guessing $700ish?

What length 6.8 SPC barrel should I be focusing on? With a Cavalry Arms polymer lower, I think I could do a ~21" bbl and still be at the same OAL as the Model 750 carbine with an 18.5" bbl.

Mike

[michael_aos]

I swung by Specialty Sports last week. No Remington Model 750's. Might be trickier than I thought to find a synthetic carbine in 308.

I was also considering the new Remington R-15 VTR in 30 Remington AR, but it's heavier and longer than the Model 750 synthetic carbine.

I guess that leaves 300 Whisper or 6.8 SPC?