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Fox News is talking about the Montana Gun law and other states have representatives there too. They are talking about fighting socialism and other juicy stuff. Check it out.
Fox News is talking about the Montana Gun law and other states have representatives there too. They are talking about fighting socialism and other juicy stuff. Check it out.
We are beyond Socialism, the boat sailed years ago, we have Fascism now.
Obama wouldn't agree he wants to push the country back to socialism since he's on the left.
Obama wouldn't agree he wants to push the country back to socialism since he's on the left.
Obama has no choice in the matter, he does what he's told.
Well you have a point there. But the whole show was about states pushing for independence from the federal government and Montana's pro-gun law. It was an interesting watch. It kinda freaked me out seeing them talk about guns in a positive light it almost seems out of place for the old media to attempt it.
This is huge, it challenges the Feds control of commerce. That's their angle into firearms, the fact that they cross state lines thus being affected by commerce.
GunTroll
05-16-2009, 19:11
I'm loving it! I like to see the FED fear loss of control of something as if they had control of it at all.
ChunkyMonkey
05-16-2009, 21:56
We are beyond Socialism, the boat sailed years ago, we have Fascism now.
????????????? We are moving toward socialism.. but we are far from fascism! You would not have the right to be bitching online if we were in one -- Nevertheless, God forbid we become a socialist country -- Hence the reason why we must stand strong on our ground. This kind of exaggerated/doom day talk is what turning off the mainstream crowd.
No offense man, I was born in a 'socialist authoritarian' country which was short of fascism -- To say that US is a fascist country made you look like a defeatist.
Chill out [Beer]
General FYI, the people behind getting that passed (individuals, not NRA etc.) are talking about getting a squeaky clean Montanan to threaten the ATF (I'd imagine a letter?) to mfg Montana only rifles without a license (22 youth rifles) for the purpose of getting told "no" so they can take it up through the court system. Didn't watch the news story, don't take time to watch news networks. This is the same way that D.C. vs Heller got started. That was a libertarian attorney, who didn't even own a firearm that wanted to do it for the sake of hopefully helping regain freedom. It started with 6 original plaintiffs, carefully selected, the only one that had a case was Heller, a security guard, because he was the only one that had a (out of state) Handgun to try to register and get denied. The one with the least infringement is the only one that can sue, Ironic isn't it? I guess that means if DC banned all firearms across the board nobody could make a case out of it lol. (they wish anyway).
And after the SCOTUS ruled that heller and others could have a gun in DC. DC found a way to deny the right and refuse of all people Heller again. I haven't heard if the Supreme Court issued bench warrants or contempt of court charges yet to force the DC assholes to approve Heller. But they should. That is what they would do with anyone else who doesn't comply with the courts.
theGinsue
05-17-2009, 20:47
This may be true, but the SCOTUS Heller vs D.C. decision wa so watered down and in many ways, vague, that it left a great deal to interpretation.
SA Friday
05-17-2009, 21:58
This may be true, but the SCOTUS Heller vs D.C. decision wa so watered down and in many ways, vague, that it left a great deal to interpretation.
The Heller decision was INTENTIONALLY vague. Essentially, the majority decision ruled the DC ban was unconstitutional because the 2nd Ammendment was an individual right. Case closed. The ruling did not address any of the other laws affecting individual gun ownership.
It couldn't. Regardless of the court, or their perceived power, they cannot rule on laws that are not in question of the case filed for ruling. What the CAN do is set case presidence that can be used in future cases against previous and future laws.
Kennedy completely gave away what the majority decision was going to look like when he questioned attorneys about the 1st ammendment and how it had collected "baggage along the way" to determine where the individual right applied and where it was acceptable to control through laws for the betterment of society.
We are currently testing where that line is with the individual right of 2A, and case ruling after case ruling is the baggage along the way.
Watered down? I don't think so. It was the strongest re-enforcement of individual rights in this country since US v Miranda (which was later encompassed into 5A after the US v Dickerson ruling).
Socialism? I've lived in socialist countries. I've been to 21 countries and lived in many of them in the last 21 years, the last 10 serving as a Fed Agent for the US Military dealing with their laws and working with the foreign countries police regularly. You obviously have NO idea what you are talking about and are simply spewing crap if you believe we live in a socialist country. If you think there's something better out there, pack your crap and move. Good luck with that...
GunTroll
05-17-2009, 22:26
The Heller decision was INTENTIONALLY vague. Essentially, the majority decision ruled the DC ban was unconstitutional because the 2nd Ammendment was an individual right. Case closed. The ruling did not address any of the other laws affecting individual gun ownership.
It couldn't. Regardless of the court, or their perceived power, they cannot rule on laws that are not in question of the case filed for ruling. What the CAN do is set case presidence that can be used in future cases against previous and future laws.
Kennedy completely gave away what the majority decision was going to look like when he questioned attorneys about the 1st ammendment and how it had collected "baggage along the way" to determine where the individual right applied and where it was acceptable to control through laws for the betterment of society.
We are currently testing where that line is with the individual right of 2A, and case ruling after case ruling is the baggage along the way.
Watered down? I don't think so. It was the strongest re-enforcement of individual rights in this country since US v Miranda (which was later encompassed into 5A after the US v Dickerson ruling).
Socialism? I've lived in socialist countries. I've been to 21 countries and lived in many of them in the last 21 years, the last 10 serving as a Fed Agent for the US Military dealing with their laws and working with the foreign countries police regularly. You obviously have NO idea what you are talking about and are simply spewing crap if you believe we live in a socialist country. If you think there's something better out there, pack your crap and move. Good luck with that...
Good call on your facts and opinions. But on the note of socialism do you not believe we are headed in that direction? And I mean even before Obama. Bush was a tool for some other means as well ,and the one before him, and before him ,even if they didn't intend for it to go this direction intentionally or purposely. You can't have your blinders on that tight with your background?? Do we call it Socialism now or tomorrow? Either way I and others (even on here) agree something is up and course has been set in motion toward somewhere far from our founding principles. Hell, no one even knows that we are a Republic anymore. Democracy! I hate this word.
SA Friday
05-17-2009, 23:01
We have never had nor have been a democracy. We have always had a Federalist government. Subtile difference, but it's there.
I do believe we are moving from our founding principals. I don't believe we have strayed as far as many try to make it out to be, and in many ways we have acutally strayed closer. Hell, in the late 1800's one could be found guilty of something as petty as stealing a horse on the testimony of one person and summarily hung. No appeals. No designated advocate for the accused, definately no protection for the suspect during an interrogation. Great results if you didn't like the guy, but pretty crappy if you are the accused. Now a days the chances of this happening are virtually nil. ya, sh!t happens now and then with Law Enforcement using excessive force. Ha ha, 100 years ago, they would have just fricken shot Rodney King and called it a day.
Too much Fed Govt dictation into what should be state legislation? Hell yes. For example, in 1986 or 87 the Fed Govt essentially blackmailed every state in passing a mandatory helmet law for motorcycle riders. They did this by essentially saying do it or we take away Fed subsidation for your roads and highways. 5 states told them to F off. Blackmail, no matter what the issue, never sets well with me.
Societies and Govt's change over time. This happens based on too many factors to discuss, but not all of them are bad. ANY Govt that can't survive two terms of a crappy leadership would have crumbled down to anarchy anyway. Somolia is a good example of this.
You want to start the pendilium swing back to our founding principals, stop trying to convince adults of 'the way it should be' and start teaching the kids in this country the information they need to change it in the next two generations. That's what it will take. A huge step would be mandating philosophy as a required course of study in every high school in this country. THAT knowledge is how our founding principals came into being. That understanding also gives them the ability to think critically about the information being thrown at them.
Then it will change without losing what we have gained. Rants and outlandish statements just make people look at you like you're crazy.
GunTroll
05-17-2009, 23:42
On the Democracy note. I know what we are suppose to be... Not what we are today. Good luck educating the youth quicker and more efficiently than our liberal agenda run school system.
I'm glad you guys are talking about this. But keep it civil, please. We are all on the same side here remember.
And in case this country is staying the course and just being jerked back and forth from right to left like a tug of war and it currently in the middle. Fuck Obama.
And if Obama is in charge and turning this country into a little slice of Russia like they want. Fuck Obama. I think I will be OK when the first shots of freedom are fired.
SA Friday
05-18-2009, 11:42
I'm glad you guys are talking about this. But keep it civil, please. We are all on the same side here remember.
And in case this country is staying the course and just being jerked back and forth from right to left like a tug of war and it currently in the middle. Fuck Obama.
And if Obama is in charge and turning this country into a little slice of Russia like they want. Fuck Obama. I think I will be OK when the first shots of freedom are fired.
Sigh... Your last paragraph is exactly what I'm talking about. It taints the credibility of every logical thing you said in the first two.
If I didn't care what our side represents to the rest of the country, I wouldn't take the time to comment.
GunTroll
05-18-2009, 12:41
I'm glad you guys are talking about this. But keep it civil, please. We are all on the same side here remember.
And in case this country is staying the course and just being jerked back and forth from right to left like a tug of war and it currently in the middle. Fuck Obama.
And if Obama is in charge and turning this country into a little slice of Russia like they want. Fuck Obama. I think I will be OK when the first shots of freedom are fired.
I believe we are being civil to each other. I know SA FRIDAY has been to me at least.
The middle sucks! Nothing gets done.
Not Russia. Maybe one world government! Think European Union.
Sigh... Your last paragraph is exactly what I'm talking about. It taints the credibility of every logical thing you said in the first two.
If I didn't care what our side represents to the rest of the country, I wouldn't take the time to comment.
I was joking there. But either way I don't care for the future if all they have planned is bigger government. The shots for freedom may come when the Federal Government trys to enforce its laws on the state. Its a little different than a siege on a compound in Texas. They will be forcing their will on a whole state and somebody is going to get hurt.
GunTroll
05-18-2009, 22:15
DOC you seeing choppers out your window yet? Better get ready!
DOC you seeing choppers out your window yet? Better get ready!
[Stooge]
SA Friday
05-19-2009, 10:49
Not Russia. Maybe one world government! Think European Union.
Beck wrote a book called 'An Inconvienient Book'; a play on Gore's 'An Inconvienient Truth'. He discusses a group of high end industrials in Canada, USA and Mexico who have been working towards a North American Union. I would have taken it as conspiricy theory stuff, but the orgs acutally do exist... Kinda scary stuff when you read it.
Ya, I know, Beck is a little fruity, but if you can get around some of his 'radio DJ' antics, his book is pretty good.
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