Your Thoughts on: Mandatory Firearms Education in Schools ?

[james_bond_007]

The government has decided to approach the subject of firearms as a TABOO topic within the school systems.
"ZERO TOLERANCE" it is the Politically Correct verbiage, I believe.

One cannot mention or think about a firearms without getting a
a) Suspended
b) Expelled
c) Sued
or
d) Punished

To control the issue , the "system" believes that banning the topic, and keeping students ignorant of the topic will remedy any problems.

My thoughts are, that it might be more effective to EDUCATE the children on the subject of firearms, rather than prohibit any discussion of the subject.
Of course, different levels of education for different age students.

I remember when there was no sex education in schools. It was also a TABOO topic.
The school system ended up adding Sex Education to school programs to help educate the children, in this area, so they could make more "informed" decisions.
Yes, they SHOULD have been getting this info at home ...but obviously they were not.

In a similar fashion, I think Firearms Education would be a suitable topic to extend towards EDUCATION, rather than leaving the children to grow up ignorant of the truths and propagate the myths about guns and the laws.

AS an ASIDE:
The US will always need an ARMY (and NAVY, AIR FORCE, COAST GUARD, MARINES).
It is likely that at sometime in the future we will be engaged in war and another draft take place.
The draft system does not discriminate (except for certain criteria) in who is selected, and many of these "Guns are Evil" kids will get "selected".
I, personally, would not want to have to fight along side a "soldier" that has, for 18+ years, been brainwashed into believing that "Guns are evil".
I would not be able to trust him to defend me, as I would defend him.


TO MODS and the RE-POST POLICE:
I "did" do a quick search on this topic, but only looked at a page or so of "hits".
If there is already a similar post, please MERGE this into that one (and I'll delete this disclaimer).

[newracer]

I don't think it should be mandatory but I do think it should be offered.

I started teaching my kids about fireatms when they were about 5.

[WETWRKS]

Mandatory sex ed in school has resulted in higher rates of pregnancy, and stds. I do not agree with what they teach. In Boulder not only are they teaching that you should go out and try sex...they are teaching that you should go out and try everything...including drugs.

The liberals who teach in the schools cannot be trusted to teach safe firearm handling.

[ZERO THEORY]

When I was growing up, I was surrounded by the gunsmiths and mechanical engineers that my grandmother rented rooms to, as well as the veterans in my family. I shot my friends with toy guns (squirt, dart, cap, etc.), drew pictures of 'Army men' with guns, played video games with fantasy guns, watched movies and TV shows with guns, you name it. I've yet to go on any shooting sprees, know how to handle my guns safely, don't live in fear of guns, and can properly/safely transport, disassemble, use, clean, and inspect guns.

Compare that to people who are sheltered as children from them. These people are nervous and jittery because they don't understand how guns work or how safe they actually are. They have no way to use a gun in the event that it becomes a necessary measure. When and if they do decide to get into guns, they tend to flag people, use poor trigger discipline, and have terrible mechanics. Firearms are no different than a chainsaw, air hammer, baseball bat, or motor vehicle. You don't have to use them or get into them, but no one should shelter you from learning how to use them safely and responsibly if you so choose. And you especially shouldn't be demonized for educating yourself or discussing the tools.

EDIT: Guess I didn't really answer the question. I'm not for mandatory firearms education, but rather against demonizing children whose families have an interest in firearms.

[NFATrustGuy]

I'm against it.

I'm against it on the basic principle that my Mom's been saying to me for as long as I can remember: 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I'm from the camp that believes schools should teach the basics--reading, writing, math, history, and science. They should make extracurricular activities available, and it'd be great if one of those activities was a firearms class, but it shouldn't be mandatory any more than sex-Ed should be mandatory.

It's a battle of incrementalism... Once we accept the principle that schools should be doing more than the basics, then the political winds will direct the actual curriculum. Once we accept that schools should teach sex-ed to make up for parental shortcomings, then it's also alright if the school teaches liberalism because the kid isn't being taught liberalism at home.

Schools should educate kids on how to educate themselves. In this time of Google searches and the universal availability of information via the internet, a kid can pretty much achieve/learn anything he wants... Unless he's brainwashed into believing that he doesn't want/need anything other than what some bureaucracy (the school system, the government, etc.) tells him he wants.

A basic education that gives a person the ability to think for themselves is the most powerful and valuable tool any person can own. Having this tool means you'll never be limited to regurgitating the opinion of whoever is the dominant authority figure in your life at any particular time. Having this tool allows a person to consider the issues of the day and separate political or media-generated bullshit from a well-reasoned analysis.

[Ronin13]

At face value it sounds like a good idea... but I think we need to stop letting schools raise our children and give that authority back to parents. Problem is, so many these days just hand their kids to the government (ahem, schools) and say "they're yours, you deal with them." Parents need to actually have a hand in raising their kids again. I don't want some libtard, union teacher teaching my kid morals and life lessons, teach my kids about reading, writing, arithmetic, etc, let me raise them and impart morals, right and wrong, and firearms safety, thanks.

[StagLefty]

I think a program like "Eddie Eagle" could be offered as an extra curriculum program. The problem I see is most parents nowadays wouldn't sign a permission slip to allow a child to take it.

[rbeau30]

Bottom line, Parents need to make parenting their #1 priority. Teach them that yes, sometimes life sucks, but you need to find a way to cope with it like the rest of us. If you don't get that iPhone youseem to think you are entitled to, or the female attention you think you are entitled to, then that just sucks and there are ways to fix it that are not mass murder.

Once you make something mandatory like this in Public schools you takle away the parent's ability to teach the child how THEY want to be taught. You basically give the Indoctrination Institutions all that power to indoctrinate YOUR child in the way THEY think YOUR child should be taught about firearms.

[james_bond_007]

I'm from the camp that believes schools should teach the basics--reading, writing, math, history, and science. They should make extracurricular activities available, and it'd be great if one of those activities was a firearms class, but it shouldn't be mandatory any more than sex-Ed should be mandatory....

I would agree with sticking to teaching the "basics", if the parents could be relied upon to teach the other stuff.
Can they ? (They USED to be able to do this ...)

The issue I have is that the schools ARE teaching and enforcing "ANTI-FIREARM education".
Don't "think it", "say it", "draw it", etc.

I'd be happier if they stopped the "anti" and stuck to the basics (as you suggest).

In many cases, the parents are just as ignorant*, so the parents don't teach ANYTHING on firearms other than "They are Evil".

(*Note: I mean "ignorant" in its true definition of "lack of knowledge" and not as an insult-phrase)

So if the SCHOOLS are not teaching firearms education,
and the parents are not teaching, firearms education,
how will the children learn about anything other than the Anti-Firearms myth that "Guns are evil" ?

[james_bond_007]

Bottom line, Parents need to make parenting their #1 priority....

Can't agree more.

But there is a disconnect between what they ARE doing (or not doing) and what they SHOULD do.

Do you have any recommendations on how to ensure parents provide all the necessary supplements to a child's education ?
This is not a "challenge" question...but I'm interested in your opinion.

I don't have a good answer on how to motivate parents to be good parents...
Seems they are only required to make sure their kids get to school (Yes, I'm generalizing).

[rbeau30]

Can't agree more.

But there is a disconnect between what they ARE doing (or not doing) and what they SHOULD do.

Do you have any recommendations on how to ensure parents provide all the necessary supplements to a child's education ?
This is not a "challenge" question...but I'm interested in your opinion.

I don't have a good answer on how to motivate parents to be good parents...
Seems they are only required to make sure their kids get to school (Yes, I'm generalizing).


I wish I had an answer to that. Sadly because I believe in the government staying the hell out of our lives unless we are actually infringing upon somone else rights, I think it is up to family and society to wake up and keep each other accountable, and government should not help a parent fear raising their children in the way they seem fit.

For example, if I am in a public place, and my child is acting outside of the parameters of my rules, I should feel confident that I can dish out any punishment immediately without the fear of someone calling the gestapo and having the Police show up to question me ( I lived in California, and yes this happened to me, my child was acting up in a restaurant, and because I took my child kicking and screaming out of the public place to the car, because of some do-gooder who thought they knew better than me, I sat and talked to the police for an hour ). What is that teaching my child? That they can break my rules because we are in public? What will happen to the next generation down the line? I believe that the breakdown of this society is rearing it's ugly head because we are too many generations into the problem. Honestly, I think we are past the point of no return.

I acted right as a child because I had to be accountable to my whole family. Firearms and hunting, and other hobbies were a big part of my immediate family and my extended family. If I did something unsafe or not within the norm I would hear about it from all of the family. I grew up wanting to make sure I didn't let me family down. There is none of that nowadays. Parents cater to children, sheltering them from disappointment and make them feel entitled to things they do not work for. Families are not the same anymore, and I do not think they will go back.

So my solution I guess is humanity becomes so stupid and we self destruct. Then we will be forced back into a way of life that the family unit has to function the right way again.

[james_bond_007]

...because I had to be accountable [emphasis added]....

Thanks for sharing that.

You used a KEY word that I don't hear very often anymore...
but I DO remember hearing it from MY parents and have passed it and the consequences that go along with it (both + and -) along to MY KIDS. [Beer]

[asmo]

I believe fundamentally that firearms should be taught in all federally funded schools.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That "well regulated" part means that the Militia needs to be trained (among other things) -- and that it is the governments obligation to do so.

[asmo]

Mandatory sex ed in school has resulted in higher rates of pregnancy, and stds.

Absolutely 100% not true in any way shape or form. In fact it is the direct opposite. In every study ever done it always shows that pregnancy rates go down. This is an old fable that constantly gets thrown around.

[TFOGGER]

That which is forbidden will raise the curiosity of most kids (Sex, drugs, guns, explosives, whatever). Remove the mystery, and the obsessive curiosity goes away. Teach them safe handling and you increase safety. Should it be mandatory? No. Should it be available? Absolutely.

[Irving]

No.

[blacklabel]

Considering I can't wait to see the US move past the current education system, I'd have to say no.

[hatidua]

Mandatory sex ed in school has resulted in higher rates of pregnancy, and stds.

Actually, it's exactly the opposite.

(oops, I see ASMO already pointed that out)

[rbeau30]

The sex ed thing... I'm a little cold-hearted on that... mostly because I believe that it should be the parent's responsibility if they did not teach their own child that it is not okay to have children when they cannot care for them (they are still under 18 and supposed to be learning how to make it in the world yet). It is not the government's responsibility to pony up for the mistake (through taxpayer money).

If your child (yes child) makes a stupid decision the family should foot the bill. Not us.

If we (parents, taxpayers, government) did not put padding on the walls of life, I think we would find that there would be a lot less stupid people in the world. Yes it is cold, but if you have less offspring raised by stupid humans survive long enough to create even dumber offspring I think that many of our problems in society would be solved.

Public schooling is good. However, many parents nowadays stop at that, they are LAZY. It should be complimented with good values and teaching at home. They give ther child and iPad/Phone and expect them to go forth and do great things. Parents have to be engaged with the child.

[Bailey Guns]

Give public schools control over my child's education on firearms? Not only "no", but "hell no". No way, no how. All we need know is some liberal coming up with the "common core" method of firearms training.

[rbeau30]

Give public schools control over my child's education on firearms? Not only "no", but "hell no". No way, no how. All we need know is some liberal coming up with the "common core" method of firearms training.

Especially since they won't be able to count the magazine capacity... ohh wait that could work to our advantage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW0VxxoCrNo

[james_bond_007]

Absolutely 100% not true in any way shape or form. In fact it is the direct opposite. In every study ever done it always shows that pregnancy rates go down. This is an old fable that constantly gets thrown around.

Curious about the original comment, I "looked around" a bit on the internet, and found that most data supports ASMO's point.
Yes, indeed, the data points to a LOWER teen pregnancy rate AND curiously a lower abortion rate.

Reasons cited were : declining economy and better education on contraceptives and consequences.

Here are a few articles I found:
a) http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pregnancy-rates-slide-near-record-lows/2013/12/04/afad3bf6-5d06-11e3-bc56-c6ca94801fac_story.html
b) http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/reproductive-health/teen-pregnancy/trends.html
c) http://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/aboutteenpreg.htm

[james_bond_007]

Thinking about this some more, and reading some of the posts, above:

1) I'd tend towards favoring it
2) I'd rather have children get SOME firearms education rather than a) none or b) 100% ANTI-firearms education
3) I'd think it would help reverse the ridiculous Zero Tolerance (ZT) policies in place today of "Don't THINK it, Don't SPEAK of it, Don't DRAW it" or you'll be expelled/suspended/punished.
4) To offer or require it in schools would be a BIG step in reversing ZT policy. I believe there should be restrictions (such as bringing loaded items to school), but "0" is too low. I think students should be able to at least "talk" about this subject without being punished.
5) If they didn't teach it the way I preferred, I'd just re-teach it to my kids, the way I do other topics that conflict with my moral, religious, or political beliefs. I'd rely on my relationship with and respect from my kids to supersede any differences in principles or propositions.

I also agree with those "good parents" above that take initiative and responsibility to spend time with their kids and teach them. This, in my opinion, would be the preferred way "in a perfect society".
If we lived in that type of world, there would have been no need for this post. We can talk all day about what parents SHOULD do...but that isn't going to change what the ARE or ARE NOT doing.

But I am struggling with how to educate those kids whose parents DON'T take this approach.

There are only a few choices:
1) Leave them remain ignorant on the topic, and perpetuate they myths they hear/read, and let them grow up with 18+ years of Zero Tolerance "education"
2) Try to educate them and let them at least have an opportunity to discuss this topic at school without reprimand

I'm fearful that the ANTI education is becoming too prolific.
I know that these kids are the future voters and legislators that will determine policy on topics such as firearms.
If they continue to grow up in this ZT/Anti environment, it is easy to predict which way they will swing such policy.

I'm still stuck on the premise that "lack of firearms education among kids AND ADULTS" is at or near to the root of many of the issues we face today.

So if not through the schools, and since many parents won't/"aren't/are not qualified to" provide such education, how can these kids receive a "proper" education on firearms ?

[Caithford]

<snip>
AS an ASIDE:
The US will always need an ARMY (and NAVY, AIR FORCE, COAST GUARD, MARINES).
<snip

Hey thanks for not forgetting the USCG!

[Aloha_Shooter]

I would like schools to teach Reading, 'Riting, and 'Rithmetic, Reasoning (lots of kids don't know how to think critically), real US history (instead of the Howard Zinn version they're pumping out), and basic civics. If they can't do those well, they have no business branching into other subjects.

Offer extracurricular options that allow kids to learn about proper handling and use of firearms but schools today (including colleges) are too distracted with course pablum to provide good education as it is.

[SamuraiCO]

Manditory, no. Optional yes. I learned my hunter safety in 6th grade at a school from my biology teacher. He would offer NRA hunter safety classes then we had to take and pass the test. We learned to reolad and then went to the range to shoot clays. The highschool kids would go on pheasant and deer hunts. In the winter it was air rifles at 25 yards. Spring brought learning how to tie eye's on blank fishing poles then we went fishing and camping overnight on the last day of school.

[MED]

I am all for firearms training, and would support clubs or shooting teams; or brining in the NRA for demonstrations and safety classes. However, I have little interest in firearms education from public schools that are today's indoctrination vehicles of the socialist left. I doubt very seriously that I would support their message since I already support very little of what comes out of those places, and would like to see them gone.


Personally, I think we do a real disservice to our society by not having active state militias any more, which is a serious side effect of the civil war and the federalism of insane proportions that followed. I think it would be a real benefit to our kids, communities, and to society in general if kids were required to serve. This would also provide some of the essential skills that every person (man) should have to include firearm skills. It would also provide us a vehicle to volunteer when our communities are threatened. Anyhow, it's all a pipe dream at this point; our society is too far down the toilet to ever be pulled without a good flushing.