BB Guns, and Kids.

[10mm-man]

So, a friend of mine gave his son a BB gun. Said son has had the BB gun for several years, and is always responsible. Treats it like it is a real gun, finger off the trigger, etc. This kid is excellent with real Ar-15's also, been to the range many a times, and can honestly say; I would rather have him back me up (if need be), and trust him more than most adults.

So anyway, I get a call; I was told this kid was able to keep his BB gun in his room, kinda as a reward for being so mature. After about two days, the kid fires the BB gun in his room! It was empty, and the kid said he made sure it was clear, before he "Dry Fired" it towards the bed. Even though it wasn't completely dry, because it was pumped with air.

Looking for advice here, I wasn't sure what to tell him. Kid is going to lose his BB gun for sure, but he also has a couple Ar-15's. Think he should lose those too??


I really don't know what to tell him; I mean we have all made mistakes, and prob have done some stupid shit with a BB gun! How do you reprimand a kid for this? Kid is 11 Y.o.


One side says punish him like if it was a real gun (not that a BB gun isn't), and ban him from guns. Another side says the punishment needs to fit the crime.

Thoughts?

J

[Great-Kazoo]

Who as a kid never dry fired their bb gun, OR opened the window late night and took out a few bottles mysteriously located about 10yds away?

[10mm-man]

Who as a kid never dry fired their bb gun, OR opened the window late night and took out a few bottles mysteriously located about 10yds away?


I know right! But at the same time; kid has several AR-15's! Gotta kind of set the punishment a higher level maybe; so the kid is less likely to screw up later, when he get's them at 18?? Or does it even matter at that point. I say make the punishment "memorable" so he doesn't screw up again.... Or is that overboard?

[clublights]

Depending on the air rifle it may not be able to be cocked with out at least some air pumped in. So the air dry fire to nothing but the click of the hammer is debatable in my opinion.

I Dunno the kid but from your description I'd hold the punishment more like this

BB gun taken away for X amount of time added chores / loss of allowance for chores ( if that is how he is handled)

No "real" rifle range time for X amount of time.
( X= 6months? rest of the summer? .. losing gun fun time for the rest of the summer seems pretty in line to me .. )

To me this seems a relatively harmless mistake that requires corrective action but is not a huge deal.

[10mm-man]

Depending on the air rifle it may not be able to be cocked with out at least some air pumped in. So the air dry fire to nothing but the click of the hammer is debatable in my opinion.

I Dunno the kid but from your description I'd hold the punishment more like this

BB gun taken away for X amount of time added chores / loss of allowance for chores ( if that is how he is handled)

No "real" rifle range time for X amount of time.
( X= 6months? rest of the summer? .. losing gun fun time for the rest of the summer seems pretty in line to me .. )

To me this seems a relatively harmless mistake that requires corrective action but is not a huge deal.

I think your more on point than I am. I might be a little overboard in what I might suggest.

[Lars]

I say this is a teachable moment for both kid and parent. He sounds like a responsible kid and know how to handle the guns as they should be handled. We teach our kids that even BB guns are real and not toys so in my opinion should the BB gun be stored just like a real gun. Maybe not in a gun safe but in the gun room or closest with the rest. I can't say much though because mine is leaning up against the wall in the garage ready for yard varmints. But I'm also not currently teaching a kid about gun safety. You can't take the guns away permanently from the kid though that is for sure. We have all shot things we shouldn't have or done some other stupid thing with a gun when we were younger. I personally got my ass whipped, learned from it and why I shouldn't do what I did, and became a better gun guy for it. Punish him for the crime committed, which was having a duh moment, teach him and move on. Take they guns away for a few weeks, then after the next range trip make him clean everyone's guns.

[10mm-man]

I say this is a teachable moment for both kid and parent. He sounds like a responsible kid and know how to handle the guns as they should be handled. We teach our kids that even BB guns are real and not toys so in my opinion should the BB gun be stored just like a real gun. Maybe not in a gun safe but in the gun room or closest with the rest. I can't say much though because mine is leaning up against the wall in the garage ready for yard varmints. But I'm also not currently teaching a kid about gun safety. You can't take the guns away permanently from the kid though that is for sure. We have all shot things we shouldn't have or done some other stupid thing with a gun when we were younger. I personally got my ass whipped, learned from it and why I shouldn't do what I did, and became a better gun guy for it. Punish him for the crime committed, which was having a duh moment, teach him and move on. Take they guns away for a few weeks, then after the next range trip make him clean everyone's guns.


Definitely on point! Excellent suggestions, and def a learning moment for both. Thanks!

[Grant H.]

Take they guns away for a few weeks, then after the next range trip make him clean everyone's guns.

This.

Take the BB gun away for 2 weeks, and no real firearms for the same 2 weeks. On day 15, take the kid shooting, but before letting him press a trigger, make him give a self prepared "speech"/lesson on the 10 Gun safety rules.

I understand wanting to make an example of this situation, but don't go overboard. The point here is to teach him.

You didn't say hold old said kid is, but I wouldn't be surprised if a whole summer sans gun privileges would be more of a detriment to his future behavior.

[BigNick73]

It was empty, and the kid said he made sure it was clear, before he "Dry Fired" it towards the bed. Even though it wasn't completely dry, because it was pumped with air.


So he made sure it was clear and pointed in a safe direction (mattress sounds like a descent backstop for a bb)? I don't see much of a issue there. He probably should have gone outside, but and knows what'd happen if a neighbor saw/heard it. Plus it's not good on the seals to leave them cocked/pumped.

[10mm-man]

So he made sure it was clear and pointed in a safe direction (mattress sounds like a descent backstop for a bb)? I don't see much of a issue there. He probably should have gone outside, but and knows what'd happen if a neighbor saw/heard it. Plus it's not good on the seals to leave them cocked/pumped.


Very da'ang GOOD point sir!


This.

Take the BB gun away for 2 weeks, and no real firearms for the same 2 weeks. On day 15, take the kid shooting, but before letting him press a trigger, make him give a self prepared "speech"/lesson on the 10 Gun safety rules.

I understand wanting to make an example of this situation, but don't go overboard. The point here is to teach him.

You didn't say hold old said kid is, but I wouldn't be surprised if a whole summer sans gun privileges would be more of a detriment to his future behavior.

11y.o - Good suggestions, thanks!

[<MADDOG>]

It may seem a silly question, but can he "dry fire" the air gun without charging it with air? I'm just surmising, but he may be trying to practice trigger control, etc. Might be worth asking why he did it. Unlike girls, boys are usually pretty damn simple...

If not, I like Lars suggestion!

[10mm-man]

It may seem a silly question, but can he "dry fire" the air gun without charging it with air? I'm just surmising, but he may be trying to practice trigger control, etc. Might be worth asking why he did it. Unlike girls, boys are usually pretty damn simple...

If not, I like Lars suggestion!


I will inquire, when i call back with my (our) suggested reprimand.

[Monky]

Man we use to shoot each other with out BB guns. We'd add fireworks into it.. We had rules. No shots above the waist.

We all knew the risks but we were kids. Never had access to real guns and it added a new Element to our cops and robbers play... Pre-air soft it's what we had. Wore goggles and all... Never had any issues except once.. Someone hit a window.

The BB guns from all kids in the neighborhood were broken across a a massive oak tree and then run through a grinder into pieces. No one fessed up to the window so we were all guilty. I tried to take the blame but I was no where near that house when it happened. I did get the pleasure of an ass beating just because that's how my step-dad was.

Kids will be kids.. No matter how responsible you may think they are. They're still kids and curiosity wins out over an ass whipping every time.

Punishment needs to fit the crime. Loss of rights for x amount of time, depending on how quickly he admitted to doing wrong. Community service? Picking up trash on the road? Something he won't want to do again.. I was certainly more upset about the loss of the BB gun than anything else


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[Double00]

Sure glad my dad didn't catch me doing some of the dumb stuff I did with my BB gun! I agree make the punishment fit the crime. Great teaching/learning opportunity.

[10mm-man]

Man we use to shoot each other with out BB guns. We'd add fireworks into it.. We had rules. No shots above the waist.

We all knew the risks but we were kids. Never had access to real guns and it added a new Element to our cops and robbers play... Pre-air soft it's what we had. Wore goggles and all... Never had any issues except once.. Someone hit a window.

The BB guns from all kids in the neighborhood were broken across a a massive oak tree and then run through a grinder into pieces. No one fessed up to the window so we were all guilty. I tried to take the blame but I was no where near that house when it happened. I did get the pleasure of an ass beating just because that's how my step-dad was.

Kids will be kids.. No matter how responsible you may think they are. They're still kids and curiosity wins out over an ass whipping every time.

Punishment needs to fit the crime. Loss of rights for x amount of time, depending on how quickly he admitted to doing wrong. Community service? Picking up trash on the road? Something he won't want to do again.. I was certainly more upset about the loss of the BB gun than anything else


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.


LoL!! Funny thing; we used to do the same, without goggles though. We were to poor to afford them! Ass whooping over curiosity every time! [ROFL1][Beer]


Sure glad my dad didn't catch me doing some of the dumb stuff I did with my BB gun! I agree make the punishment fit the crime. Great teaching/learning opportunity. Agree with that statement 100%


Thanks for all the help fella's; now I won't come off like such a hard ass, when i tell him to hang him!! I'll say it's what you all suggested! lol.... [ROFL1][Beer]

[spongejosh]

... I was told this kid was able to keep his BB gun in his room, kinda as a reward for being so mature. After about two days, the kid fires the BB gun in his room! It was empty, and the kid said he made sure it was clear, before he "Dry Fired" it towards the bed. Even though it wasn't completely dry, because it was pumped with air....

In that situation I'd say he can't keep it in his room any more. Lock it up and he needs to ask permission to use it for a couple more years.

[<MADDOG>]

Reading Monky's comment, and reflecting about the stupid shit (it was fun at the time though!) my friends and I did makes me think how much we have lost over the years...

One of the most best Christmas movies of all time (at least IMO) would never be done today.

If he's a good kid, don't go overboard.

[Double00]

You'll shoot your eye out! You'll shoot you eye out!

[Irving]

I think everyone else pretty much nailed it. You can expect a lot from kids, but he's still only 11 years-old. The last time I did something stupid was probably this morning, so it's not like you can punish it out of him; not to mention it'd be completely overboard and unreasonable to try and do so.

[10mm-man]

I think everyone else pretty much nailed it. You can expect a lot from kids, but he's still only 11 years-old. The last time I did something stupid was probably this morning, so it's not like you can punish it out of him; not to mention it'd be completely overboard and unreasonable to try and do so.


You, and me both! And, no doubt....

[rbeau30]

Look at why he wanted to dry fire it. He seems like an astute youngun'. Perhaps he knew he needed to render the firearm safe and release the spring tension. Sit down and ask why? Was it just late at night and he didn't want to ask parents? What was the reason for him not asking if he could go outside to dry fire it?

I think he probably had a reason, and probably did a bad thing for a good reason, in probably the least ideal way. Sit down and ask him how many range rules he broke (for a firearm NOT just an air rifle) and why? Was he on the second floor? could a ricochet have hit the floor and gone into another room of the house? Did he know what was on the other side of that wall, etc.

[Irving]

After you discipline him, tell him that I once "dry fired" a potato cannon in my parents house when I was 20 years-old.
EDIT: While my parents were sleeping.

[ChadAmberg]

I'd have the kid do a complete report and presentation on gun safety. Not a 2 min thing on the 4 rules, but a 20 min talk with charts on accidents, "case studies" of real incidents of what happened, etc. Of course, the kid has no access to his guns until it's completed. He's old enough that there are better options than just punishments.

[SuperiorDG]

Shoot him in the ass one time with the BB gun and call it good.[Sarcasm2]

[TRnCO]

I still shoot my BB gun in the house, with a suitable back stop, I don't see the problem. The kid checked to make sure his gun was NOT loaded with a BB, and dry fired it. Guess I just don't see if as a punishable crime.

[<MADDOG>]

After you discipline him, tell him that I once "dry fired" a potato cannon in my parents house when I was 20 years-old.
EDIT: While my parents were sleeping.

That's all you got? [LOL]

Hand grenade practice range. Boredom. Plenty of grenade bodies; 5 cases of fuses. Take one case, break fuses, dump powder into one body with one fuse. Tape bottom of said body, pull pin, and throw...

Results: damn near a real frag, my buddy shitting his pants, and a CSM tearing off my ass cheek for stupidity and ingenuity at the same time (oxymoron I know, but I'll spare the diatribe).

I won't go into what I did with C4 or TNT...I'm surprised I'm still walking on this earth looking back!

Males are genetically pre-disposed to do stupid shit!

[KestrelBike]

After you discipline him, tell him that I once "dry fired" a potato cannon in my parents house when I was 20 years-old.
EDIT: While my parents were sleeping.

Bonus points if you did this in the bathroom with the door closed. Nothing like that kinda acoustic environment for a potato gun.

[james_bond_007]

I'd treat this as a warning, calling it STRIKE ONE.
He's 11. Maybe...there is some responsibility to put on the person(s) that educated him. Maybe one has to be more explicit about DO's and DON'Ts for an 11-year old ?

I'm not blaming anyone...just giving the kid the benefit of the doubt, regarding maybe not understanding\not being presented the complete "rules" for "DRY" fire.
I can see how being giving rules about the centerfire AR firearm might leave some interpretation (by this 11-year old) regarding on how things apply to an air rifle, if
explicit rules for the air rifle were not covered.

Use the 2-strike scale before handing out a harsher punishment.
STRIKE 2 (same mistake)...and he's "out"...time for a punishment.

I would just talk to him and see if he could tell me what he did wrong, why it was wrong, why he did it, and have him explain what he should do differently the next time.
I'd go over anything else, regarding the air rifle and AR that "I", the educator and potential "punisher" , might have forgotten to mention: storage location, locked, snap caps, etc.

I'd also explain that, unless it is a single shot (no magazine) BB Gun, it is easy for a BB to get "stuck", when he thinks it is empty, and then "become loose" and get accidentally fired from a "believed" empty gun.

I'd maybe use the "Scared Straight" method to educate him a bit, and tell him some accounts of people MUCH more competent than him, that also had "accidents", and explain what they did wrong (or right).

Here's 2 accounts to start things out for you:

Account #1:
A few years ago I visited a friend of mine. He is an FFL, was an ARMY rifle instructor, works at a gun store selling firearms, was a competitive rifle shooter, a CCW instructor and other accolades.
He was showing me a lever action rifle. He cycled it 2-3 times, showed me it was clear, and handed it to me to look at.
Fortunately, I followed the safety rules of "re-checking" it and cycled it again.
To both our amazement, a live round was ejected.
Three such rounds were somehow "stuck" in the tubular magazine and ejected.

He was white as a ghost, and did not stop apologizing and blaming himself.

Guilty Parties: None.
Result: No harm done, as the basic safety rules were followed.


Account #2:
(NOTE: If one of the members here WAS this seller, please PM me with anything I accidentally misrepresented in this account).

If you remember a year or so ago, someone was shot at the Tanner Gunshow.
A few shows later, I stopped at the table where this happened and got the story from the seller that was involved.

He said (and I'll paraphrase):
A guy and his buddy were looking for a pistol (I believe it was a Brazilian Taurus of some kind).
The seller had one new in the box, still factory sealed.
He opened the box and handed the box and pistol to the guy.
(Mistake #1: The seller did not "safety check" the firearm because it was "factory new". He believed there was NO WAY it could be loaded).

The guy took it, cocked the hammer, and pointed it at his friend.
(Mistake #2: Never point a firearm at anything you don't want to destroy)

He smiled and pulled the trigger.
(Mistake #3: Always treat every firearm as if it were loaded)

The gun went off. The friend was shot.
All were surprised and scared.
The Story made it to most of the News stations across the country. "Man Shot at Gunshow" (NOT what the pro-gun crowd needed to have in the news...especially at that time).

How did it go off ?
After some research, it was determined that the factory does a 3-round (might be less) test fire before shipping.
Apparently, a round was chambered, but not fired, and left in the gun, when shipped.
(It is speculated, without any proof, that this may have happened over a lunch break or shift change at the factory)

Guilty Parties : Mfg, Seller, Buyer
Result: Man shot, seller's business in Jeopardy, bad press for pro-gun crowd, etc.

[MED]

This.

Take the BB gun away for 2 weeks, and no real firearms for the same 2 weeks. On day 15, take the kid shooting, but before letting him press a trigger, make him give a self prepared "speech"/lesson on the 10 Gun safety rules.

I understand wanting to make an example of this situation, but don't go overboard. The point here is to teach him.

You didn't say hold old said kid is, but I wouldn't be surprised if a whole summer sans gun privileges would be more of a detriment to his future behavior.

I agree with this. Remove the BB gun from his room, and have him explain the safety rules. Give it back when the parent feels comfortable. Let him keep shooting and take those opportunities to have him explain the safety rules. Compared to what my friends and I did with BB guns, this is nothing.

[10mm-man]

OK, here is the story I got.

Kid thought it would be no big deal to release the air from the gun, checked it for no BB, then said he thought the bed would be a suitable "backstop" for a BB just in case one was inside it. Said the side of the bed would prob stop the BB in case there was one inside it; thus not allowing a ricochet. Said he didn't think it would be a big deal; people dry fire an AR-15 all the time. Make sure it isn't loaded, point in safe direction, and let the hammer drop.

HUMM; how do you argue with that, and punish a kid for being safe??? Asked if there were rules about not dry firing- Nope! Dry fire an AR-15 all the time. Can't drop the trigger on a BB gun with no AIR. lol

So another question- Different rules for different guns, or treat them all the same to avoid confusion. AR-15 if cleared, could be safely dry fired inside; why not a BB gun?



***** Thanks for everyone's responses; didn't want to quote them all....[Beer]

[.455_Hunter]

I am still not quite sure why this is a big deal?

I dorked around all the time w/ BB guns in my room, including an infinite number of dry fires in "safe" directions. We are NOT talking about a M1 with black tip AP rounds.

If my mom or dad did not like it, they told me to quiet down or go outside.

Sorry if I offend anybody.

[earplug]

Kid was smart enough to dry fire without incident, whats the problem?

[MED]

OK, here is the story I got.

Kid thought it would be no big deal to release the air from the gun, checked it for no BB, then said he thought the bed would be a suitable "backstop" for a BB just in case one was inside it. Said the side of the bed would prob stop the BB in case there was one inside it; thus not allowing a ricochet. Said he didn't think it would be a big deal; people dry fire an AR-15 all the time. Make sure it isn't loaded, point in safe direction, and let the hammer drop.

HUMM; how do you argue with that, and punish a kid for being safe??? Asked if there were rules about not dry firing- Nope! Dry fire an AR-15 all the time. Can't drop the trigger on a BB gun with no AIR. lol

So another question- Different rules for different guns, or treat them all the same to avoid confusion. AR-15 if cleared, could be safely dry fired inside; why not a BB gun?

***** Thanks for everyone's responses; didn't want to quote them all....[Beer]

Sounds like he did everything OK to me. I dry practice with a pistol and holster work all the time. The only thing I could say to this is let his parents know first.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Yeah, I was thinking about this and I'm not seeing the issue. He kept it pointed in a safe direction, kept it unloaded (and verified it was unloaded), kept his finger off the trigger until he was ready to shoot. He know what his target was and what was beyond. As MED says, the only thing I could object to is that he didn't check with the parents first.

BTW, he can't just go outside to test fire in many locales -- C Springs forbids firing a BB gun, air rifle, or bow inside city limits except at designated ranges. Part of the liberalization of a city I have enjoyed for many years ... [Bang][Rant1][Mad][Bang]

[wctriumph]

I don't know. I used to shoot my BB guns in my room all the time, at a target in a box backed with a few layers of cardboard. It was less trouble than shooting in the backyard. If the neighbor lady ever saw me in the backyard with my BB gun she would scream at me and then tell my parents that I was killing all the neighborhood birds. I never shot at glass bottles but there were always pop and beer cans that could be collected as targets.

Give him a stern talking to and tell him to save it for the range. Do not take away his gun!

[DavieD55]

Give him a stern talking to and tell him to save it for the range.

^ This and then maybe get him going on a hunter safety class.