Leave Guns to the Professionals

[Hound]

Looks like some police departments are starting to review their procedures. This is a good thing. We keep seeing these "cops overreacting" situations come up in posts on this forum. It many times becomes devisive with a common defense of "it was by procedure". This is also an issue down in New Mexico where they are having protests over police overreacting. I am glad things may change in at least a few of them.



NYT: As Justice Department Scrutinizes Local Police, Cleveland Is Latest Focus by Erik Eckholm:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/18/us/justice-department-examining-local-police-turns-focus-to-cleveland.html?ref=us&_r=1

CLEVELAND — As cries of “shots fired” shrieked from police radios, a caravan that grew to 62 patrol cars chased an old blue Malibu through 20 miles of this city’s streets and highways. The vehicle and its two occupants were surrounded in a school lot, and in a disorienting jumble of sirens and strobes, officers fired 137 rounds at close range.


When the shooting stopped that night in November 2012, a man and a woman, both African-American, were dead, riddled with bullets in the car’s front seat. There was no evidence that either had a gun. Investigations suggested that they had set out to purchase crack cocaine in a car that apparently backfired as it passed an officer, and then panicked when the police tried to pull them over.


Late last month, one officer was indicted on manslaughter charges and five supervisors were charged with criminal dereliction of duty.

[Colorado_Outback]

Gonna start holding my breath in 3... 2... 1... haha

[rbeau30]

137 rounds.



"In my best goofy voice" Ohhh, duhh all these cops are shooting , maybe I should empty my firearm too!


You know if they are that skittish at the sound of gunfire perhaps they should not be in this line of work. No wonder people flee. You can't blame them when the slightest sound could set off a barrage of gunfire. That car looks absolutely riddled with bullets. A friggin execution.

[Hound]

This does not need to become a cop bash thread, it was not intended that way. They are rightly saying that they have a process they go by, which if written well, should ensure that they treat everybody fairly and by the law. Np there. The problem comes up when the process is broken, heavy handed, excessive and does not "protect & serve" per the law and I might add the Constitution. These articles are talking to the PD's (through the DoJ) doing exactly what should be done.... Review the procedures. You can't bash them for that, it is a good thing. They are responding to the "people" saying "Hey, too much".

[rbeau30]

This does not need to become a cop bash thread, it was not intended that way. They are rightly saying that they have a process they go by, which if written well, should ensure that they treat everybody fairly and by the law. Np there. The problem comes up when the process is broken, heavy handed, excessive and does not "protect & serve" per the law and I might add the Constitution. These articles are talking to the PD's (through the DoJ) doing exactly what should be done.... Review the procedures. You can't bash them for that, it is a good thing. They are responding to the "people" saying "Hey, too much".

I agree. And I would like the process be used a lot more. Public servants are just that and should be subject to public scruitiny.

[Bailey Guns]

Wow. The Justice Dept investigating wrongdoing. Isn't that like the fox guarding the henhouse?

[clublights]

137 rounds.



ONE officer 49 shots fired...


One guy .. 49 shots.. jesus .

[clublights]

Wow. The Justice Dept investigating wrongdoing. Isn't that like the fox guarding the henhouse?


To say the least .

[buffalobo]

:eek:
ONE officer 49 shots fired...


One guy .. 49 shots.. jesus .
Maybe he needed to practice his reloads for upcoming IDPA match.

lobbed from my electronic ball and chain

[Scanker19]

The protesters in NM are overreacting.

[TEAMRICO]

The protesters in NM are overreacting.
What did your protest sign say Jordan?

[bobbyfairbanks]

Bash. Yup bashing cops.

[BushMasterBoy]

I blame Chevrolet, I had a 454 truck that backfired, sounded like a cannon! Sounds like a fatal case of DWB...notice I didn't say "the police are out of control"

[rbeau30]

I blame Chevrolet, I had a 454 truck that backfired, sounded like a cannon! Sounds like a fatal case of DWB...notice I didn't say "the police are out of control"


BAN the CHEVYS!

[Gman]

ONE officer 49 shots fired...


One guy .. 49 shots.. jesus .
If he was limited to 10 round magazines, wouldn't that have made this outcome impossible? [Sarcasm2]

[rbeau30]

If he was limited to 10 round magazines, wouldn't that have made this outcome impossible? [Sarcasm2]

Yes!

[clublights]

If he was limited to 10 round magazines, wouldn't that have made this outcome impossible? [Sarcasm2]


I know it's sarcasm ..


BUt


Naw thats only 5 mags total ... 4 on the belt.. one in the gun .. seems reasonable .

[rbeau30]

I know it's sarcasm ..


BUt


Naw thats only 5 mags total ... 4 on the belt.. one in the gun .. seems reasonable .


Just imagine slapping the trigger 10 times, dropping a mag, exchanging it 4 more times while slapping the trigger 10 times between, while watching the windshield and other stuff explode from the other ONE HUNDRED rounds hit the cockpit of the vehicle.


Meh I guess you had to be there, but I'm glad the system is looking at accountability.

[clublights]

Just imagine slapping the trigger 10 times, dropping a mag, exchanging it 4 more times while slapping the trigger 10 times between, while watching the windshield and other stuff explode from the other ONE HUNDRED rounds hit the cockpit of the vehicle.


Meh I guess you had to be there, but I'm glad the system is looking at accountability.


I can't fathom feeling the need to shoot 49 times mixed with X amount of mag changes at someone that was not even shooting back.

There has to be a science to this. just like that guy in NY that got pumped full of rounds at his bachelor party by NYC ( think ) Cops.

I've never been a gun fight so my guess is when you hear the other cops guns going off you think it is the "bad guy" shooting back so you keep firing. this combined with some feeling that the other guys are shooting I should be too. like in this example the one guy that fired at least one round from what looks to me to be at least 40 yards away.

Not that the psychology of it excuses the behavior but I think it is something that should be studied.

[Great-Kazoo]

Wow. The Justice Dept investigating wrongdoing. Isn't that like the fox guarding the henhouse?

I'd say more like the pot calling the kettle black. Unfortunately id be labeled a racist.

[rbeau30]

I can't fathom feeling the need to shoot 49 times mixed with X amount of mag changes at someone that was not even shooting back.

There has to be a science to this. just like that guy in NY that got pumped full of rounds at his bachelor party by NYC ( think ) Cops.

I've never been a gun fight so my guess is when you hear the other cops guns going off you think it is the "bad guy" shooting back so you keep firing. this combined with some feeling that the other guys are shooting I should be too. like in this example the one guy that fired at least one round from what looks to me to be at least 40 yards away.

Not that the psychology of it excuses the behavior but I think it is something that should be studied.


I think that is it. This incident was in 2012, but maybe this will uncover the need to provide some more training or something. Or Different Kind of training.

[TheBelly]

At about the 3:25 mark in the slow-mo portion of the animation, I see a couple pairs of officers start to get caught in each others' cross fire. Cross fire is a really bad situation.

Cross fire continues throughout the rest of the shooting.

Im glad that I'm not involved in that investigation.

[rbeau30]

At about the 3:25 mark in the slow-mo portion of the animation, I see a couple pairs of officers start to get caught in each others' cross fire. Cross fire is a really bad situation.

Cross fire continues throughout the rest of the shooting.

Im glad that I'm not involved in that investigation.

Perhaps some training on the Range Rules? along with escalation of force.

[Irving]

With 62 cars it kind of reminds me of this scene from Aladdin.

b6DIWqh6JUQ