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View Full Version : Problem purchasing my stripped lower receiver... :(


MichiganMilitia
05-21-2009, 01:06
Hey gang,

I've got a bit of a problem here... I had a stripped lower from Brownells sent to Paradise Firearms down on Colorado Ave in C-Springs and I went down there to pick it up today with the proper paperwork, and I almost walked out the door with it, but the guy performing the sale (his name was Tom) noticed a little section for question 18 on the 4473 that says:

"If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still are "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See section 921 (a)(3)(b). 18 U.S.C. Section 922 (b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21."

Here's the skinny: I'm only 19 and you apparently need to be 21 to buy a lower receiver.

...So what am I supposed to do? Would it be too much to ask for someone else of age to go pick it up for me? Is that even legal? Tom at Paradise said I could have someone of age pick it up and build it into a complete rifle and transfer it to me, but that's exactly what I planned on doing, so what's the difference? I am aware of the straw purchase issue, but how is that any different from me buying a stripped lower from a private party instead of an FFL?

Grrrrrrr what a pain in the ass... Any ideas? I've already invested nearly $1200 in AR parts and accessories and I don't plan on quitting my AR build.

Thanks,
-Dave
ryanek9freak
05-21-2009, 06:21
As long as you're going to build it into a rifle, I don't see what the question is. That doesn't make sense.
68Charger
05-21-2009, 06:23
since it's not built yet, it COULD be built into a pistol... which requires the purchaser to be 21...
Pancho Villa
05-21-2009, 06:30
I bought a lower before I was 21. The guy at the gun show simply asked me if I was going to use the lower to build a rifle or a pistol, and when I replied 'rifle' he marked that down.

I would say thats a bunch of BS, except that firearms laws (and their application) change year to year, so it may be some new crap the ATF has cooked up.

I would call all other local FFLs and ask if they have any issues with selling a stripped lower to a 19 year old. If you find one that does, it may just be an issue of getting it sent to someone willing to do it. If not it may be a new ATF rule since I got my last lower.
sniper7
05-21-2009, 07:12
the new 4473 should have a section that says rifle, pistol, lower

check the rifle box. problem solved.

If it is built into a pistol, you now become the owner of an illegal SBR and he has the paperwork to prove it.

If it is built into a rifle, you have no problems.

Can't you have your dad or mom buy it for you for a birthday present?
jim02
05-21-2009, 10:47
Your family local? Have a relative go pick it up for you, mom, dad, uncle etc..
MichiganMilitia
05-21-2009, 11:42
Thanks for the input everyone. The 4473 says at the bottom "Revised August 2008". (Tom at Paradise let me take a copy of the form back with me.) I'm not sure if there is a newer version of the form, but I would assume not. Sniper7, what version of the 4473 are you referring to? Tom is a good guy, and he was frustrated about it too, but he didn't want to lose his FFL.

I went to Specialty Sports, and apparently they don't care, but they don't do FFL transfers.. They want me to buy one of their lowers for $229. (F***ING RIDICULOUS!) I bought my lower from Brownells for $113.... I'm not about to try to return it, get my money back, and then spend twice as much just for some stupid paperwork.

And I don't have any local family that could pick it up for me either.

This is frustrating to no end... I just want my rifle! [Rant1]
DocMedic
05-21-2009, 12:21
Tom at Paradise said I could have someone of age pick it up and build it into a complete rifle and transfer it to me-Dave

Everyone has a different definition of "Complete". I would try to ask one of your NCO's if they can help you out.
GunTroll
05-21-2009, 13:37
Prime example of dumb laws that seem to be written by a fool in a cubicle who has never even touched a firearm. Don't they think this kind of stuff can be gotten around? More laws and rules when the ones they have don't even make sense or get enforced properly.
RRD3
05-21-2009, 13:52
Here's the shit kicker about this. He's in the Military. I think if you are in the Military then your Military ID should be as good as the age of 21.

Just my .02
SA Friday
05-21-2009, 14:03
Here's the shit kicker about this. He's in the Military. I think if you are in the Military then your Military ID should be as good as the age of 21.

Just my .02
Abso-f'n-lutely. This just flat out pisses me off. One would think both the Govt and the military would WANT anyone in the military to have every advantage to shoot firearms well, especially the AR platform.[Bang]
MichiganMilitia
05-21-2009, 14:16
Don't they think this kind of stuff can be gotten around?

[Help]

..So who wants to go pick it up and sell it to me for whatever the transfer fee is (I think $25 or $30) plus $20? [Tooth]
sniper7
05-21-2009, 15:32
can't you take your parts to the FFL, build the gun into the rifle and then have it transferred as a complete rifle.

at that point if you were to try and switch it to a pistol, it would be your ass, and not his.
ChunkyMonkey
05-21-2009, 15:36
yep..it doesn't even have to be a complete rifle .. just a lower w/ stock instead of a buffer tube.
MichiganMilitia
05-21-2009, 17:45
yep..it doesn't even have to be a complete rifle .. just a lower w/ stock instead of a buffer tube.

So does it need to be a A2 style rifle stock? Or can I walk in and stick my VLTOR Emod on it and call it a rifle?
MichiganMilitia
05-21-2009, 17:46
can't you take your parts to the FFL, build the gun into the rifle and then have it transferred as a complete rifle.

at that point if you were to try and switch it to a pistol, it would be your ass, and not his.

I don't have the upper yet... I bought a complete custom upper from a guy in Pueblo West about 3 months ago and it should be here in June.
sniper7
05-21-2009, 18:35
as long as you put a stock on it, it is considered a rifle.

AR pistols can't have stocks. AR rifles can't have less than 16" barrels unless they are an SBR
ChunkyMonkey
05-21-2009, 20:41
as long as you put a stock on it, it is considered a rifle.

AR pistols can't have stocks. AR rifles can't have less than 16" barrels unless they are an SBR

+1 I agree... run that idea and see if they let you.
MichiganMilitia
05-21-2009, 23:48
"If a frame or receiver can only be made into a long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver not a handgun or long gun. However, they still are "firearms" by definition, and subject to the same GCA limitations as any other firearms. See section 921 (a)(3)(b). 18 U.S.C. Section 922 (b)(1) makes it unlawful for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be made into a long gun, is a "firearm other than a shotgun or rifle," it cannot be transferred to anyone under the age of 21."



So I guess my only option is to buy a different lower from a private seller and sell the one that I ordered to someone?

That is so stupid...
sniper7
05-22-2009, 10:01
So I guess my only option is to buy a different lower from a private seller and sell the one that I ordered to someone?

That is so stupid...


sorry bro. you might be able to figure something out with someone though.
MichiganMilitia
05-22-2009, 19:14
And so I ask:

Is there anyone in the Colorado Springs area that would like to buy this lower from me and/or sell me one for a reasonable price? This is a brand new CCMG stripped lower.

I really just want to build my rifle... :(
The Extractor
05-23-2009, 01:16
So I guess my only option is to buy a different lower from a
private seller and sell the one that I ordered to someone?

That is so stupid...

Why cant you borrow an upper , take it in and have them "sell you a complete rifle " ?
Aloha_Shooter
05-23-2009, 05:53
Michigan,

I'm leaving country on Wednesday. Send me a PM and maybe we can work something out on Tuesday. I'll also be back June 29th if you don't get any help before then.
Circuits
05-23-2009, 14:23
Legally, once you've attached a stock to it, it's a long gun. If Paradise sales will let you bring in your stock, and screw it on, it's now a long gun, and can transfer to 18+.
jim02
05-24-2009, 17:26
Contact, owner@ShadowRiverProductions.com (owner@ShadowRiverProductions.com)
His store is http://www.evilblackrifleshop.com/store/index.php (http://www.evilblackrifleshop.com/store/index.php), he lives across I-25 from the AF Academy.
Maybe he can get the lower for you then add your parts to make it a legal rifle for you.
MuzzleFlash
05-26-2009, 04:44
I had a discussion with the BATFE about this.

They insist that the receiver be handled like a pistol (including the multiple HG purchase paperwork when transfering 2 or more) but the dealer check "Other" on the 4473.

CBI currently does not have a "Other" category - only long gun and handgun. The dealer is forced to transfer (and do the NICS) under false pretenses since the receiver is neither by definition. This could be problematic for you later, not to mention that the dealer has made false statements in the NICS check.

Let's say you're over 21 and you assure the dealer it will be used as a rifle. He checks off "long gun" on the CBI transfer form. You put it in the safe and 2 years later you decide to build it into a pistol instead. Legally, you're on the up-and-up.

Then someone swipes the gun from your car.

You file the police report. The gun gets recovered in a narcotics bust, gets shown with the drugs on the evening news while the anti-gun US attorney calls it a cop killing gun designed to pierce body armor, yada, yada. The BATF does a trace. The NICS record shows a long rifle transfered to you yet you have it built into a pistol. Per the screwy ATF regs, this is an unregistered SBR and you're in a bad spot because Mr. Prosecutor wants to run for Governor. You may win the case, but lose your life savings on atty fees.