Corrupt Establishment GOP is Crony Capitalism's Bought and Paid for Political Arm

[Cujo0920]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-20/singer-drops-a-million-into-rove-s-super-pac-for-midterms.html

Oligarchs like Paul Singer (head of a Wall Street vulture fund) continue to use their vast wealth to subvert our political process and install corrupt, venal, and pliable establishment GOP operatives who represent the Wall Street crooks and Beltway insiders, not the rubes back home. Look for these Karl Rove-backed "Republicrats" to seek "consensus" (read: fold like cheap suits) on issues like gun control, taxation, and immigration reform.

If you want to see who owns candidates like Mark Warner or Michael Bennett (or any of the establishment GOP candidates) go to open secrets dot org and see who's funding their campaigns.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2014/06/mark-warner-and-blackrock-its-complicated/

[Bailey Guns]

Reading your nonsense is like reading HuffPo.

[roberth]

...and my ignore list grows longer.

I hear the same stuff at the office, I don't need to read it during my free time.

Does the GOP have problems? Most certainly they do but we're talking molehills when GOP problems are compared to mountains of crap from CPUSA.

[Great-Kazoo]

Reading your nonsense is like reading HuffPo.

Huffpo? This "guy" is a blatant flag burner, who has no independent idea's, outside of Copy & paste. Hell he can't even attack me without using progressive talking points .

His shtick boil's down to i know i am but what are you. Shit ALMOST everyone grew out of in 3rd grade. .

Time to put cujo down.

[XJ]

I bet the OP won't say how many R's voted for Hickenlooper's gun bills

[Cujo0920]

"Flag-burner?" Like expecting the GOP to be a principled alternative to the Democrats and a champion of the productive middle and working classes against both the parasites and unscrupulous elites is somehow unpatriotic? Are you guys really that mindless and forgiving of corruption in high places, regardless of the party affiliation of the perpetrators? Or is shambling zombie-like into the voting booth and voting for the R over the D, even if they both are equally corrupt and larcenous, somehow your idea of doing your civic duty? Sounds sheep-like to me.

I have no idea how many "Rs" voted for Hick's gun bills. I was happy to help contribute and vote for recalling Morse's sorry a$$ from public office and hope we see the last of Hick and his ilk after the next election. I do know a lot of "Rs" like Cantor said one thing to get elected, then cravenly jettisoned their so-called conservative beliefs for the sake of political expediency and collecting fat contributions from K Street lobbyists. Unlike "Great-Kazoo" who makes ad hominem attacks on anyone who expects his beloved "Rs" to embody actual republican (small R) beliefs, I expect ACCOUNTABILITY and INTEGRITY out of our elected officials, ESPECIALLY the Rs. And if they show otherwise, then I'll call them out on it and refuse to support them.

Is this forum really such an echo chamber that anyone who calls out GOP as well as DNC corruption needs to be "put down" in Great-Kazoo's words? I don't give the GOP a pass on sleaze and wrongdoing any more than I do the DNC - moral relativism (turning a blind eye to crony capitalism, for instance, when practiced by "our" party) shows just how compromised and brain-dead certain segments of our electorate have become. A true patriot expects their political representatives and party to actually advocate for their constituents, not sell their votes and souls to the highest bidder.

The election of David Brat, a political novice who called out Eric Cantor on his hypocrisy in spouting conservative rhetoric but serving Wall Street's agenda, is a hopeful sign that the GOP grass roots is fed up with RINOs who talk the talk but are in the pockets of the Wall Street crooks and beltway insiders. Cantor spent more on steak dinners in fancy restaurants ($178K) than Brat did on his entire campaign, and outspent Brat 25-to-one thanks to fat cat campaign contributions from the likes of Goldman Sachs and Blackstone, but Brat called him out being out of touch with the people who elected him, not to mention the superficiality of his conservative values. Guys like Brat show there's hope that an aware and energized GOP grass roots will no longer settle for the "lesser of two evils" and will in fact not VOTE for or support evil.

[Bailey Guns]

Oh, yeah. You have the market cornered on political righteousness. It's hard to tell if you're carrying water for the DNC or Alex Jones. Your political rhetoric is so over the top that it's simply impossible, for me anyway, to take anything you say seriously.

[merl]

I'm not going to read your links, just state my opinion on your topic. One has to assume every politician is corrupt, the power attracts that type like moths. If you find the rare one that is not, shout that out from the rooftops. If you find one that goes too far, lock them up. Other than that you have to find the ones that have not taken bribes to screw you over.

They are all out to *censored* someone, pick the ones that are not after you.

[Cujo0920]

Recent polls show that only seven percent of Americans think Congress is going a good job, yet historically the great majority of voters will vote to return their incumbent representative - Democrat or Republican - to office. And then wonder why we keep going down the same path.

If my concerns about the corrosive impact of big-money corporate or Wall Street donors (who have been bailed out to the tune of over a trillion dollars by taxpayers) on the political process causes slack-jawed wonders in the GOP voting base to mindlessly accuse me of being a water-carrier for Alex Jones or the DNC, that shows just how dumbed-down and morally compromised the American electorate - on both sides of the isle - has become. David Brat, outspent 25 to one, unseated the corrupt RINO Eric Cantor in an upset that shocked the GOP establishment - so yeah, Merl, I'm shouting that from the rooftops. I hope Brat's election signifies that the GOP base (apart from some of the bovine cud-chewers of the sort who posted above) are finally waking up and rejecting business-as-usual crony capitalism and politicians who sell out to the highest bidder.

[milwaukeeshaker]

+1 on everything you have said on these postings. Democrats are running us to the cliff and shoving us over. Republicans are walking us there. If you cannot see that the Repubs are "Dem light" you have drunk the koolaid. And, yes I've been a registered Republican for 40yrs. Repubs WAKE UP!!!! Your party is screwing the electorate.



QUOTE=Cujo0920;1655293]Recent polls show that only seven percent of Americans think Congress is going a good job, yet historically the great majority of voters will vote to return their incumbent representative - Democrat or Republican - to office. And then wonder why we keep going down the same path.

If my concerns about the corrosive impact of big-money corporate or Wall Street donors (who have been bailed out to the tune of over a trillion dollars by taxpayers) on the political process causes slack-jawed wonders in the GOP voting base to mindlessly accuse me of being a water-carrier for Alex Jones or the DNC, that shows just how dumbed-down and morally compromised the American electorate - on both sides of the isle - has become. David Brat, outspent 25 to one, unseated the corrupt RINO Eric Cantor in an upset that shocked the GOP establishment - so yeah, Merl, I'm shouting that from the rooftops. I hope Brat's election signifies that the GOP base (apart from some of the bovine cud-chewers of the sort who posted above) are finally waking up and rejecting business-as-usual crony capitalism and politicians who sell out to the highest bidder.[/QUOTE]

[ChunkyMonkey]

First IBTL?

[Cujo0920]

Testify, Brother Milwaukeeshaker! I'm still a registered Republican but there isn't a dimes worth of difference - empty rhetoric aside - between the corrupt and captured GOP establishment and their Democrat counterparts. Former Reagan budget director David Stockman wrote a fantastic piece calling out the pseudo-conservative Eric Cantor and his ilk on their sleaze and venality. While certain cretins on this board will automatically attack anyone who challenges their sheeplike adherence to the status quo, more and more people - especially in the GOP base - are waking up and holding their elected officials accountable, and giving grifters (and Bloomberg groupies) like Scott Morse the heave-ho.

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/good-riddance-to-rep-eric-cantor-bagman-for-wall-street-and-the-war-party/

From Stockman: "Its possible to describe Rep.Eric Cantor as a serial sell-out. But that would be giving an unprincipled politician driven by an unalloyed ambition to climb the greasy pole of Washington power too much credit. In truth, Cantor never campaigned for any recognizable principle; he merely maneuvered his way to the top of the House GOP hierarchy by following in the tawdry footsteps of modern GOP bagmen like Tom DeLay and Roy Blunt."

http://www.republicreport.org/2014/dave-brat-cantor/

Another great article on how Cantor's primary defeat reflects a growing anger among the GOP rank-and-file over the perfidy of the establishment GOP, which has been all but completely captured by the mega-corporations, Wall Street crooks, and K Street lobbyists.

[Bailey Guns]

Like I said...you're obviously a legend in your own mind regarding what's right and wrong with the political system. Yet, with all your rhetoric and hyperbole, you still wonder why people aren't listening to you. Yeah...it's a stumper, isn't it?

[Big E3]

In my experience the only people that believe the R's and D's are the same turn out to be liberals. As far as congresses approval rating the only times it is high is when a single party has enough control to ram it's agenda through and then one party (33%) believes they are doing good. The reason it is low is because we have conflict and gridlock and that's a good thing. It means that one party is not dominating the other party, neither party is getting everything it wants. My take is Republicans are generally there to uphold the constitution and law, Democrats seem to be there to change the constitution and skirt the law. The D's manage to always get a complete coalition to ram their issues through. R's never seem to manage any kind of a monolithic voting block to get anything through.

The R's get a bad rap because if they fart in church the media reports constantly on it, D's get a virtual pass, mention it and move on regardless of what they do. The media learned it's lesson with Jimmy Carter when they threw him under the bus with the misery index and as a side effect got Reagan elected. Now nothing the D's do will be elaborated on, it could backfire and they would loose there way on the path to socialism.

And a little name calling is good but in every other sentence is a tactic of the liberals as well, that's all they have when they don't have a logical or fact based counter point. I don't expect things to get better anytime soon, the education system has been taken over by a group that spends 16 plus years teaching our kids, "republican bad", "democrat good". I constantly talk to young people that don't even know why they believe what they believe.

We have a two party system and that is better than a three or more party system. I don't want an election where a party wins a four way race with 26% of the vote. That would mean we could have a president, a senator or a congressman, that 3/4 of the people didn't vote for or want. As flawed as our system is it is still the best one out there. So pick a party and work within the system to make it what you want it to be. Complaining about both parties won't fix anything, no party is going to be lockstep 100% with what any one person wants, ever, it's always about who's getting closer. And politics will always be about huge amounts of money, don't get caught up in the media crap about who has more and where it comes from. Me I would rather see political money come from the American Koch brothers that the Hungarian Soros, the media doesn't see that way.

[Cujo0920]

So now I'm being scolded by a guy with the juvenile handle of "Buck Farack" who says fraud is OK as long as its the GOP committing it. I guess that tells me all I need to know about your ethics. Meanwhile, another dude or should I say dupe bleats that the two-party Republicrat duopoly, which has given us a $17 trillion dollar (unpayable) national debt, Obamacare, Common Core, countless infringements on the Constitution and Bill of Rights, endless bailouts for Wall Street grifters and debasement of the currency through the Fed's deranged money-printing, and oligarchs like Soros and the Koch Bros (not to mention Bloomberg) subverting our political process (for their own benefit) through their massive bribes, er, campaign contributions - according to "Big E3" that's all just swell and anybody who opposes the direction the BOTH parties are herding us in "turns out to be liberals"? Wow, we've got some really deep thinkers in the house today. No wonder we're so screwed as a country with sheep like these pulling the voting levers.

[milwaukeeshaker]

Republicans for the constitution? When have the Repubs who have regained Senate or Congressional powers back from the Dems ever then repealed all of the unconstitutional laws passed by the Dems, gun laws or otherwise? Upholding the constitution? Say John McCain R twice and click your heels. That's just the glaring Repub sellout I can think of at this time. one of the points the OP was making is that the Repubs are not angels, and if there is enough incentive (power or money) they are just as bad as a Dem. I for one am sick of my party leaning to the left, I want the right wing version that I joined in the past. The Tea Party seems to get it.

[Cujo0920]

Well said, sir. The OP's point is that voters and taxpayers, regardless of party affiliation, need to hold their elected officials and party leadership accountable, period. As we did with Scott Morse. Power corrupts, as Canter, McCain, and Miss Lindsey Graham demonstrate daily through their fecklessness and contempt for traditional Republican principles. Unfortunately, our political class can count on sheep of the sort who seem to be well represented in here to mindlessly pull the R or D lever every election and parrot the party line, too ignorant or unprincipled to care that their so-called representatives, regardless of R or D labels, have been bought and paid for by K Street lobbyists who draft the bills they sign - giving us gems like Common Core and Obamacare that enrich well-connected special interests and voting blocs at the expense of taxpayers and the public interest. These same sheep then emulate their mainstream media border collies by bleating that anyone who doesn't go along with the status quo is somehow an Alex Jones conspiracy theorist or (shudder) "a Dem." Baaaaah go the good little sheep who have never had an original or independent thought in their entire life. Little do they know that they are every GOP sellouts' wet dream, since their support is automatic and mindless regardless of how badly our political elites are screwing them over or leading the country to ruin.

Do you think bi-partisan support for "immigration reform" (i.e. cheap labor for Big Business, more "entitlement" programs & votes for Democrats, despite public opposition) had anything to do with the mass influx of Central American migrant kids flooding across our southern border? I don't recall voting for this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10916593/Americas-border-inundated-with-almost-50000-child-migrants.html

[Cujo0920]

Oh, yeah. You have the market cornered on political righteousness. It's hard to tell if you're carrying water for the DNC or Alex Jones. Your political rhetoric is so over the top that it's simply impossible, for me anyway, to take anything you say seriously.

Um, yeah. And I guess Bobby Jindal is also carrying the water for Alex Jones or the DNC?

http://news.msn.com/us/jindal-says-rebellion-brewing-against-washington

"I can sense right now a rebellion brewing amongst these United States," Jindal said, "where people are ready for a hostile takeover of Washington, D.C., to preserve the American Dream for our children and grandchildren."

The governor said there was a "silent war" on religious liberty being fought in the U.S. — a country that he said was built on that liberty.

"I am tired of the left. They say they're for tolerance, they say they respect diversity. The reality is this: They respect everybody unless you happen to disagree with them," he said. "The left is trying to silence us and I'm tired of it, I won't take it anymore."

Earlier this week, Jindal signed an executive order to block the use of tests tied to Common Core education standards in his state, a position favored by tea party supporters and conservatives. He said he would continue to fight against the administration's attempts to implement Common Core.

"The federal government has no role, no right and no place dictating standards in our local schools across these 50 states of the United States of America," Jindal said.

[Bailey Guns]

So now I'm being scolded by a guy with the juvenile handle of "Buck Farack" who says fraud is OK as long as its the GOP committing it.

Oh, really? I said that?


I guess that tells me all I need to know about your ethics.

You don't know anything about my ethics. And if lying is your MO and fabricating things I've said "tells you all you need to know" then you'll just remain clueless. I think if ethics are the topic it's clear you have none.


Meanwhile, another dude or should I say dupe bleats that the two-party Republicrat duopoly, which has given us a $17 trillion dollar (unpayable) national debt, Obamacare, Common Core, countless infringements on the Constitution and Bill of Rights, endless bailouts for Wall Street grifters and debasement of the currency through the Fed's deranged money-printing, and oligarchs like Soros and the Koch Bros (not to mention Bloomberg) subverting our political process (for their own benefit) through their massive bribes, er, campaign contributions - according to "Big E3" that's all just swell and anybody who opposes the direction the BOTH parties are herding us in "turns out to be liberals"? Wow, we've got some really deep thinkers in the house today. No wonder we're so screwed as a country with sheep like these pulling the voting levers.

OK. That confirms it. You're just an asshole. If guys like you are right, I guess I'd rather be wrong.

[Bailey Guns]

Oh, BTW. Bobby Jindal isn't a trash-talking moron. You are. He's intelligent and worth listening to. You aren't.

[milwaukeeshaker]

At least Cujo has not resorted to vulgarity. Why are you such rabid Republican Bailey? Just for a minute try to think outside of your box and realize the party is not what it used to be and there might be another alternative. I'm not trying to goad you, you seem well informed, I just don't believe you cannot see the flaws that are apparent to others.

[Big E3]

It must be election season when name calling liberals show up here to try to pass themselves off as "the only thinking" republicans. Funny they tend to only throw republicans under the bus. Kind of looks like the weekend assignment was to go to a mostly republican site and create a discussion using as many liberal phases as you can. See if you can piss off republican voters and maybe they won't show up to vote.

Just a few words and phrases I noticed that appear to be right out of the liberal playbook;

Oligarchs, vulture fund, corrupt, venal, pliable, GOP operatives, Wall Street crooks, "Republicrats", cheap suits, parasites, unscrupulous elites, mindless, perpetrators, shambling zombie-like, larcenous, sheep-like, sorry a$$, his ilk, cravenly jettisoned, fat contributions, ad hominem, echo chamber, sleaze, wrongdoing, moral relativism, crony capitalism, blind eye, brain-dead, true patriot, sell votes and souls, highest bidder, political novice, hypocrisy, spouting rhetoric, RINOs, crooks and beltway insiders, fat cat contributions, superficiality of conservative values, lesser of two evils, VOTE for support evil, corrosive impact, slack-jawed wonders, mindlessly accuse, water-carrier, dumbed-down, morally compromised, corrupt RINO, shouting that from the rooftops, bovine cud-chewers, finally waking, business-as-usual crony capitalism, politicians who sell out, drunk the koolaid, Testify Brother, I'm still a registered Republican, isn't a dimes worth of difference, empty rhetoric, corrupt and captured GOP, pseudo-conservative, sleaze and venality, cretins on this board, sheeplike adherence, status quo, grifters, Bloomberg groupies, perfidy, mega-corporations, Wall Street crooks, K Street lobbyists, juvenile, dupe bleats, two-party Republicrat duopoly, endless bailouts, Wall Street grifters, deranged, subverting, massive bribes, Wow really deep thinkers, sheep like these, fecklessness, well-connected special interests, sheep then emulate, mainstream media border collies, bleating, conspiracy theorist, Baaaaah go the good little sheep, never had an original or independent thought in their entire life, GOP sellouts' wet dream, automatic and mindless, screwing them, immigration reform, cheap labor for Big Business,

[Artema]

These kinds of arguments get nowhere. Neither of the two big political parties are your friends or truly back what you believe them to back. They both oppose the 4th and 5th amendments and the Republicans have proven to be poor defenders of the 2nd. Neither enforces the 1st. Republicans on the establishment side, and Democrats on the speech side.

[Cujo0920]

Oh, yeah. You have the market cornered on political righteousness. It's hard to tell if you're carrying water for the DNC or Alex Jones. Your political rhetoric is so over the top that it's simply impossible, for me anyway, to take anything you say seriously.

OK "Buck Farack" maybe you'd like to point out which of my very specific assertions, backed by factual evidence, are "carrying water for the DNC or Alex Jones." Or how exactly my "political rhetoric" i.e. factually pointing out how sleazeball vulture capitalists like Paul Singer are using their financial clout to buy a controlling interest in the establishment GOP, constitutes "over the top" political rhetoric. You can't and you won't, so kindly STFU.

Since you criticize me for calling out pseudo-conservatives like Eric Cantor on their whoring for Wall Street grifters and the K Street bagmen who gave us Obamacare, Common Core, "immigration reform," and endless bailouts of the Wall Street swindlers, without being able to refute the truthfulness of what I'm saying, that makes you an accomplice to their fraud in my book. "That which isn't resisted is approved" - and you and your ilk have given the corrupt establishment GOP leadership a free pass to throw the productive middle and working classes in this country under the bus and commit wholesale fraud on taxpayers and unborn generations. So forgive me if I view establishment GOP cheerleaders like you with contempt.

[Cujo0920]

It must be election season when name calling liberals show up here to try to pass themselves off as "the only thinking" republicans. Funny they tend to only throw republicans under the bus. Kind of looks like the weekend assignment was to go to a mostly republican site and create a discussion using as many liberal phases as you can. See if you can piss off republican voters and maybe they won't show up to vote.

Just a few words and phrases I noticed that appear to be right out of the liberal playbook;

Oligarchs, vulture fund, corrupt, venal, pliable, GOP operatives, Wall Street crooks, "Republicrats", cheap suits, parasites, unscrupulous elites, mindless, perpetrators, shambling zombie-like, larcenous, sheep-like, sorry a$$, his ilk, cravenly jettisoned, fat contributions, ad hominem, echo chamber, sleaze, wrongdoing, moral relativism, crony capitalism, blind eye, brain-dead, true patriot, sell votes and souls, highest bidder, political novice, hypocrisy, spouting rhetoric, RINOs, crooks and beltway insiders, fat cat contributions, superficiality of conservative values, lesser of two evils, VOTE for support evil, corrosive impact, slack-jawed wonders, mindlessly accuse, water-carrier, dumbed-down, morally compromised, corrupt RINO, shouting that from the rooftops, bovine cud-chewers, finally waking, business-as-usual crony capitalism, politicians who sell out, drunk the koolaid, Testify Brother, I'm still a registered Republican, isn't a dimes worth of difference, empty rhetoric, corrupt and captured GOP, pseudo-conservative, sleaze and venality, cretins on this board, sheeplike adherence, status quo, grifters, Bloomberg groupies, perfidy, mega-corporations, Wall Street crooks, K Street lobbyists, juvenile, dupe bleats, two-party Republicrat duopoly, endless bailouts, Wall Street grifters, deranged, subverting, massive bribes, Wow really deep thinkers, sheep like these, fecklessness, well-connected special interests, sheep then emulate, mainstream media border collies, bleating, conspiracy theorist, Baaaaah go the good little sheep, never had an original or independent thought in their entire life, GOP sellouts' wet dream, automatic and mindless, screwing them, immigration reform, cheap labor for Big Business,

When you fell off the turnip truck, did it run over your head? Are you saying anger over how the Democrats AND Republicans shafted my kids and their generation by sticking them with Wall Street's gambling debts, and foisting abominations like Common Core and Obamacare on schoolkids and taxpayers are somehow "out of the liberal playbook"? Are you seriously that deluded and delusional? Good G*d, man, you sound like a prime candidate for a court-ordered sterilization.

[milwaukeeshaker]

Yeah! What he said.



These kinds of arguments get nowhere. Neither of the two big political parties are your friends or truly back what you believe them to back. They both oppose the 4th and 5th amendments and the Republicans have proven to be poor defenders of the 2nd. Neither enforces the 1st. Republicans on the establishment side, and Democrats on the speech side.

[Bailey Guns]

At least Cujo has not resorted to vulgarity. Why are you such rabid Republican Bailey? Just for a minute try to think outside of your box and realize the party is not what it used to be and there might be another alternative. I'm not trying to goad you, you seem well informed, I just don't believe you cannot see the flaws that are apparent to others.

Whatever. Name-calling is name-calling. He did it. I did it. You did it.

I've explained over and over why I vote republican. I've explained over and over why I believe party trumps person. I've explained over and over why I believe the republican party and the democrat party are not the same. I've also explained why I think many republicans (McCain, Boehner and Christie to name a few) are part of the problem with the republican party. I'm sorry you missed it.

Yes there are alternatives. No, there are no viable alternatives if one wants a share of governing in DC.

It's kinda like the old saying, "I love my country, I hate my government." I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. I believe the republican party, in and of itself and separate from many in the party, is still the best option available if we want to get back on track to traditional conservative values in this country. There are many up and coming republican politicians who I believe really want to change things...some who've been elected and some who are trying to get elected.

Change isn't going to come by wishing more libertarians (or insert favored party here ______) could get elected. So that's why I vote for republican party candidates. Because the party in charge controls things. And I'd rather have republicans in charge than democrats (and since there isn't a viable alternative those are my only two choices), not because the party is perfect, but because the republican part platform more closely reflects my beliefs.

See? It can be explained without all the name-calling, ridiculous rhetoric and nonsense that cujo finds so fascinating and necessary.

[Bailey Guns]

And cujo, I couldn't care less what you think of me. I value the opinions of people I respect. Idiots just bore me.

[Cujo0920]

Neither of the two big political parties are your friends or truly back what you believe them to back. They both oppose the 4th and 5th amendments and the Republicans have proven to be poor defenders of the 2nd. Neither enforces the 1st. Republicans on the establishment side, and Democrats on the speech side.

Amen, brother. The dolts who keep pulling the lever for the status quo have no right to complain when, surprise surprise, we keep going down the wrong road regardless of which party is in power.

[Bailey Guns]

Now, milwaukee, go back and read cujo's last couple of posts. Talk to me again about vulgarity and who's "rabid".

ETA:


When you fell off the turnip truck, did it run over your head? Are you saying anger over how the Democrats AND Republicans shafted my kids and their generation by sticking them with Wall Street's gambling debts, and foisting abominations like Common Core and Obamacare on schoolkids and taxpayers are somehow "out of the liberal playbook"? Are you seriously that deluded and delusional? Good G*d, man, you sound like a prime candidate for a court-ordered sterilization.

If that's the type of person you'd want to associate with, regardless of political leanings, then we really have nothing to talk about.

[Cujo0920]

And cujo, I couldn't care less what you think of me. I value the opinions of people I respect. Idiots just bore me.

The feeling is mutual. Now go back to being a tool.

[milwaukeeshaker]

Yes I missed any earlier explanation. Fair enough. I can respect your position. I don't agree with all of it, but I can see where you come from. I also respect Cujos opinion, and can see his points. Name calling and downgrading really is not the way to go, just seems to degrade the discussion.


Whatever. Name-calling is name-calling. He did it. I did it. You did it.

I've explained over and over why I vote republican. I've explained over and over why I believe party trumps person. I've explained over and over why I believe the republican party and the democrat party are not the same. I've also explained why I think many republicans (McCain, Boehner and Christie to name a few) are part of the problem with the republican party. I'm sorry you missed it.

Yes there are alternatives. No, there are no viable alternatives if one wants a share of governing in DC.

It's kinda like the old saying, "I love my country, I hate my government." I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. I believe the republican party, in and of itself and separate from many in the party, is still the best option available if we want to get back on track to traditional conservative values in this country. There are many up and coming republican politicians who I believe really want to change things...some who've been elected and some who are trying to get elected.

Change isn't going to come by wishing more libertarians (or insert favored party here ______) could get elected. So that's why I vote for republican party candidates. Because the party in charge controls things. And I'd rather have republicans in charge than democrats (and since there isn't a viable alternative those are my only two choices), not because the party is perfect, but because the republican part platform more closely reflects my beliefs.

See? It can be explained without all the name-calling, ridiculous rhetoric and nonsense that cujo finds so fascinating and necessary.

[Cujo0920]

Whatever. Name-calling is name-calling. He did it. I did it. You did it.

It's kinda like the old saying, "I love my country, I hate my government." I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. I believe the republican party, in and of itself and separate from many in the party, is still the best option available if we want to get back on track to traditional conservative values in this country. There are many up and coming republican politicians who I believe really want to change things...some who've been elected and some who are trying to get elected.


I don't "hate my government"; I do, however, want it to adhere firmly to the Constitution and be held accountable for misdeeds and institutional corruption, i.e. using the IRS to target the Tea Party (or any other political entity). I also believe that while the DNC is corrupt to its core, that makes it even more paramount that that the GOP rank-and-file hold the leadership to high standards and purge them ruthlessly when they get seduced by power and the perks that go along with it. I have zero tolerance for corruption, fraud, and sleaze in either party, or those who make excuses for it. We cannot get back to "traditional conservative values" in this country by turning a blind eye to debauched, compromised GOP leaders like...well, most of them to be brutally honest. And I want their sorry a$$es kicked to the curb, like Cantor's was (God bless the primary voters of his district) and the rest being put on notice that if they have GOP as their party affiliation, they damn well better embody republican principles or move on to their true calling as K Street lobbyists or white collar criminals. So I do have some common ground with Bailey Guns, despite finding his blind partisanship distasteful.

[milwaukeeshaker]

I'm sorry, but I believe your post, the first answer to the OP is what started us down the road of name calling, then others joined in when they smelled blood in the water. Possibly all of us might think about toning down our responses just a little to facilitate more informative discussions.


Now, milwaukee, go back and read cujo's last couple of posts. Talk to me again about vulgarity and who's "rabid".

ETA:



If that's the type of person you'd want to associate with, regardless of political leanings, then we really have nothing to talk about.

[Cujo0920]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/confessions-of-an-insider-trader-2014-06-21

This is crony capitalism in action. Insiders using their access for financial gain, undeterred by a plausible threat of consequences. While these small fry got popped, the 2008 financial crisis (which was deferred, not resolved) shows the systemic nature of the collusion between Wall Street, the Treasury, and the Federal Reserve, with speculative losses being transferred to taxpayers as the Fed did when it foisted $2.3 trillion in toxic-waste mortgage-backed securities from its primary-dealer banks (i.e. JP Morgan) and put taxpayers on the hook instead. Regulators and enforcers were conspicuously absent, and many of their top officials look forward to post-retirement careers with the same financial firms they're supposed to be policing. When the next asset bubble bursts, guess who's going to be left holding the bag again? Not the gamblers and swindlers, that's for sure. And neither the GOP nor DNC will put the public interest first, rest assured.

[Cujo0920]

Reading your nonsense is like reading HuffPo.

I do not take kindly to ignorant, unjustified, ad hominem smears.

[milwaukeeshaker]

I am with you. As I said maybe we all need to ratchet it down.


I do not take kindly to ignorant, unjustified, ad hominem smears.

[Bailey Guns]

I do not take kindly to ignorant, unjustified, ad hominem smears.

So we should do as you say, not as you do?

[Great-Kazoo]

I do not take kindly to ignorant, unjustified, ad hominem smears.

[ROFL2] You? get serious, based on one of your attacks on me, in another thread.

One of the typical responses when things don't go the way you want , resort to, I'M BEING ATTACKED.

[Big E3]

I'm sure at some point you will eventually run out of colorful terms to call everyone and use your clearly advanced brain to tell us all how you actually plan to change the republicans to your liking. Or are you planning on just continuing to beat up the republicans, and prove my point. And as far as I'm concerned I will take a bad republican over any democrat. When I still had my own business I used to hire a lot of young naive loud mouths like you because it was always good to hire them while they were still young enough to know everything. Occasionally I would hire them just so I could fire them, Oh the good old days.

[Irving]

I'm sorry, but I believe your post, the first answer to the OP is what started us down the road of name calling, then others joined in when they smelled blood in the water.

Cujo's response to Jim, in the first thread Cujo started this last week was what has set the tone for the way the entire board reacts to him.

[Cujo0920]

Thomas Jefferson warned against the corrupting influence of the "monied interests" on politics. The GOP has been no less immune than the DNC, although the rot is far more deep and systemic among the Dems and their voter base, and the GOP base is showing an increased disaffection with crony capitalism and beltway insiders controlling our political discourse and policies. Which is a positive development.

I have no "plans" or ability to change the GOP to my liking. The only thing I can do as an individual is to support individual candidates (like Dave Brat) who seem to be guided by conservative principles, and withhold my support to bodies like the National Republican Senatorial Committee that keep asking for money but then funnel it to candidates like Cantor or McCain who represent the worst of what our political class has become. I refused to vote for McCain or Romney in the last two elections, as I'm not going to keep holding my nose and voting for the "lesser of two evils." Let America experience the wonders of Hope & Change - it might wise up the Obama Zombies and open people's eyes. But as a nation, I'm afraid we are going to have to reap the consequences of decades of cumulative fiscal and personal profligacy and irresponsibility, and a money-driven political process, before We the People get fired up enough to demand real change and true accountability (and stop passing each generation's unsolved problems onto future generations).

[Cujo0920]

Cujo's response to Jim, in the first thread Cujo started this last week was what has set the tone for the way the entire board reacts to him.

OK, so this thread has been viewed 457 times at last count, and a grand total of four or five posters have felt the need to pile on with derogatory comments. So are these the self-appointed representatives of "the entire board"?

For the crime of pointing out that big-money donors and lobbyists with shady agendas have exerted a corrupting influence on the GOP leadership, I've been called a flag-burner, a HuffPost plant, a "progressive," a Dem, etc. If I swatted a few flies in response, that shouldn't surprise anyone.

That said, this is getting a little too fratricidal for my tastes. I'll dial it back and hope my "fans" will do the same.

[Great-Kazoo]

That said, this is getting a little too fratricidal for my tastes. I'll dial it back and hope my "fans" will do the same.

Bummer, hoping you were taking your murse and going home. Don't confuse the times viewed with responses posted. Most folks honed their patience with nynco, and few other left of center members. You'll learn one of 3 ways,

1 - stop posting and using progressive trash, buzz words

2 - see 1

3- take your ball & bat, leaving on your own

4 - sent to the time out corner

5 - given the boot

my money is on 4, then possibly 5. i don't see your tolerance and diversity winning over fans. Well maybe 1 or 2.

FWIW: until more folks have him on the ignore list, i'll keep seeing the same tired shit. HINT.

[centrarchidae]

The feeling is mutual. Now go back to being a tool.
Yes, Bailey. This thread is for cujo and Milwaukeeshaker to harrumph each other. Stop crapping in their private time.


So are these the self-appointed representatives of the entire board?

The world is run by the folks who show up.

I imagine that there's a lesson in that about the underlying topic of the thread...

Sent from my spark-gap transmitter.

[Cujo0920]

"It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their own selfish purposes...

No free government can stand without virtue in the people and a lofty spirit of patriotism, and if the sordid feelings of mere selfishness shall usurp the place which ought to be filled by public spirit, the legislation of Congress will soon be converted into a scramble for personal and sectional advantages...

It is one of the serious evils of our present system of banking that it enables one class of society--and that by no means a numerous one--by its control over the currency, to act injuriously upon the interests of all the others and to exercise more than its just proportion of influence in political affairs."

Andrew Jackson

[Cujo0920]

http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2014/6/22/the-stench-of-crony-capitalist-corruption-at-gm.html

More crony capitalism (at Gubmint Motors) in action as taxpayers keep a bloated, inefficient, non-competitive company from failing ("O" needs those UAW votes).

[milwaukeeshaker]

Really? How eloquent.

[ROFL1]
Yes, Bailey. This thread is for cujo and Milwaukeeshaker to harrumph each other. Stop crapping in their private time.



The world is run by the folks who show up.

I imagine that there's a lesson in that about the underlying topic of the thread...

Sent from my spark-gap transmitter.

[Ronin13]

I'll chime in: first, to those who say both parties are the same explain debate and deadlock in congress. It can't be that just those few "tea party" kids are ruining the fun for the dems and "dem lite." Second, the term "dem lite" is stupid, it implies that the person using the term is either too ignorant to recognize a difference in party ideology or too lazy. Third, Cujo, you seem to be extremely offended by Bailey's avatar of "Buck Farack", anyone right of center (or even center) would find it, at the very least, humorous. If I bad mouth Hillary will you declare jihad on me? Finally, I find it a bit hypocritical to declare you avoid ad hominem attacks just a sentence prior to you doing the same. Oh and the sheep-like reference is just silly, that would be implying that we don't have original thought, which clearly since no one here is spouting CNN talking points is just patently false, plenty of original ideas, even Milwaukee and Cujo have, just they sound awful Liberal to me, even if they're not mainstream liberal ideas.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Big E3]

I think one reason this whole conversation is suspicious is it just seems to me that this matter would be better served over on one of the liberal sites. The continuing to beat on republicans here seems counterproductive. It appears that your assignment was to go to a site with a bunch of gun totting red necks and if you can't change there minds you don't stand a chance with the real lunatics at a liberal site. And your instructor should have given you some names of politicians that are local to this area. The names I constantly hear from you are Eric Cantor, John McCain, David Brat, Scott Morse (or did you mean John Morse), most of us here can't vote for any of these guys anyway.

I would have thought "Milwakeeshaker" would have at least mentioned Scott Walker as a champion of the cause. Or as your name implies you came from Wisconsin where you tried and fail to "shake" things up and get rid of the good Governor. And "Cujo" really a rabid crazy attacking dog, enough said.


When you fell off the turnip truck, did it run over your head? Are you saying anger over how the Democrats AND Republicans shafted my kids and their generation by sticking them with Wall Street's gambling debts, and foisting abominations like Common Core and Obamacare on schoolkids and taxpayers are somehow "out of the liberal playbook"? Are you seriously that deluded and delusional? Good G*d, man, you sound like a prime candidate for a court-ordered sterilization.

As far as that head injury I received in the accident with the truck hauling turnips, you don't know anything about it you weren't there, pure speculation on your part. And as far as court ordered castration, I won that case. I'm surprised that you would advocate that a government could have right cut your balls off, that speaks volumes about your stance of government intrusion.

[Dave]

[Pop]

[milwaukeeshaker]

Are you serious? Liberal? If anything I'm now leaning Libertarian, or maybe a Tea Party member. The repubs have moved way further to the left than I can stand. Are all of you blind??? Can't you see the party is not conservative, or following the constitution anymore? This forum is amazing! Logic completely takes a break here. I give up, this is like trying to get Dem libs to stop raising taxes.


I'll chime in: first, to those who say both parties are the same explain debate and deadlock in congress. It can't be that just those few "tea party" kids are ruining the fun for the dems and "dem lite." Second, the term "dem lite" is stupid, it implies that the person using the term is either too ignorant to recognize a difference in party ideology or too lazy. Third, Cujo, you seem to be extremely offended by Bailey's avatar of "Buck Farack", anyone right of center (or even center) would find it, at the very least, humorous. If I bad mouth Hillary will you declare jihad on me? Finally, I find it a bit hypocritical to declare you avoid ad hominem attacks just a sentence prior to you doing the same. Oh and the sheep-like reference is just silly, that would be implying that we don't have original thought, which clearly since no one here is spouting CNN talking points is just patently false, plenty of original ideas, even Milwaukee and Cujo have, just they sound awful Liberal to me, even if they're not mainstream liberal ideas.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[milwaukeeshaker]

Ah, you assumed. You know the old saying about that. I'm a Colorado native, and proud of it . Where did you come from??


I think one reason this whole conversation is suspicious is it just seems to me that this matter would be better served over on one of the liberal sites. The continuing to beat on republicans here seems counterproductive. It appears that your assignment was to go to a site with a bunch of gun totting red necks and if you can't change there minds you don't stand a chance with the real lunatics at a liberal site. And your instructor should have given you some names of politicians that are local to this area. The names I constantly hear from you are Eric Cantor, John McCain, David Brat, Scott Morse (or did you mean John Morse), most of us here can't vote for any of these guys anyway.

I would have thought "Milwakeeshaker" would have at least mentioned Scott Walker as a champion of the cause. Or as your name implies you came from Wisconsin where you tried and fail to "shake" things up and get rid of the good Governor. And "Cujo" really a rabid crazy attacking dog, enough said.



As far as that head injury I received in the accident with the truck hauling turnips, you don't know anything about it you weren't there, pure speculation on your part. And as far as court ordered castration, I won that case. I'm surprised that you would advocate that a government could have right cut your balls off, that speaks volumes about your stance of government intrusion.

[Big E3]

Never assumed anything, been here in Colorado since 1955

[milwaukeeshaker]

Been here since 55? Where were you originaly from? I was born, and raised in Denver in 53. So I've got 2 yrs seniority on ya. That sleight a couple posts back backfired on you didn't it?


Never assumed anything, been here in Colorado since 1955

[Great-Kazoo]

A Where did you come from??

What's this mud check time. The "political debate" went from cut & paste, to Please no name calling, to OH YEAH WHERE YOU FROM?

AM NOT, ARE TOO.....

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608049180401992560&pid=15.1

[milwaukeeshaker]

He made an assumption that my opinions carried less weight because of where he thought I came from, I refuted it. Now I want to see his bonafides[dig]

[Cujo0920]

I'll chime in: first, to those who say both parties are the same explain debate and deadlock in congress. It can't be that just those few "tea party" kids are ruining the fun for the dems and "dem lite." Second, the term "dem lite" is stupid, it implies that the person using the term is either too ignorant to recognize a difference in party ideology or too lazy.

Blah blah blah. RINOs, dem lite, same thing, just different pimps.


"Third, Cujo, you seem to be extremely offended by Bailey's avatar of "Buck Farack", anyone right of center (or even center) would find it, at the very least, humorous. If I bad mouth Hillary will you declare jihad on me?"

I used to think avatars like "Buck Farack" were witty and clever. Then I turned 12.


"Finally, I find it a bit hypocritical to declare you avoid ad hominem attacks just a sentence prior to you doing the same. Oh and the sheep-like reference is just silly, that would be implying that we don't have original thought, which clearly since no one here is spouting CNN talking points is just patently false, plenty of original ideas, even Milwaukee and Cujo have, just they sound awful Liberal to me, even if they're not mainstream liberal ideas."

Spoken like a true moron. If Milwaukeeshaker and I call out corrupt RINO scumbags, that doesn't make us liberals, it means we haven't abandoned our principles. Now run along home, Corky, your village wouldn't be the same without you.

[Great-Kazoo]

Blah blah blah. RINOs, dem lite, same thing, just different pimps.



I used to think avatars like "Buck Farack" were witty and clever. Then I turned 12.



Spoken like a true moron. If Milwaukeeshaker and I call out corrupt RINO scumbags, that doesn't make us liberals, it means we haven't abandoned our principles. Now run along home, Corky, your village wouldn't be the same without you.


Personal attacks from the one who called for a cease fire.[beatdeadhorse] Another sing of an argument that went in the shitter. You need to pick up your game, sport.

[Cujo0920]

Are you serious? Liberal? If anything I'm now leaning Libertarian, or maybe a Tea Party member. The repubs have moved way further to the left than I can stand. Are all of you blind??? Can't you see the party is not conservative, or following the constitution anymore? This forum is amazing! Logic completely takes a break here. I give up, this is like trying to get Dem libs to stop raising taxes.

Admittedly, I gave most Second Amendment supporters more credit for having both principled convictions and the capacity for independent thought. However, the most vocal members of the board aren't necessarily the most logical or intelligent. Look at Great-Kazoo's 18,000 plus posts: clearly, the dude has no life and thus infests these message boards spewing his drek 24/7. Mindlessly barfing out "liberal!" to anyone who levels legitimate criticisms at RINO sell-outs like Cantor is the hallmark of a deep thinker, let me tell you.

It matters not. The election of Dave Brat signaled a clear repudiation and rebuke of the "Republicrat" status quo by pissed-off voters [with a significant IQ premium over certain noise-makers in this forum] who expect Republicans to ACT like Republicans instead of being water carriers for Wall Street and beltway insiders - and hold their "leadership" accountable when they pimp themselves out to the highest bidder.

[Cujo0920]

Personal attacks from the one who called for a cease fire.[beatdeadhorse] Another sing of an argument that went in the shitter. You need to pick up your game, sport.

There's a sign outside the wolverine cage at the Paris Zoo. It says (in French, obviously) "This is a very vicious animal. When attacked, he defends himself."

Ditto.

[Great-Kazoo]

There's a sign outside the wolverine cage at the Paris Zoo. It says (in French, obviously) "This is a very vicious animal. When attacked, he defends himself."

Ditto.


[panic] OOOOOO good thing like you, i'm hiding behind a keyboard[ROFL2] .Man up and stop being a name calling pussy. Use facts, stop C&P, state the case you lost 2-3 threads ago.
You punked out 2 x, then after asking for a time out, resorted to the typical tactics of the tolerance & diversity crowd. ,believing in your mind, if you shout loud enough everyone will listen to you. [panic]

[milwaukeeshaker]

Simply unbelievable!!!!!![facepalm]

[Great-Kazoo]

.

That said, this is getting a little too fratricidal for my tastes. I'll dial it back and hope my "fans" will do the same.


Simply unbelievable!!!!!![facepalm]

Hey, the guy you're carrying water for asked to dial it back. Clearly you can see who honored that request.

[DavieD55]

Are you serious? Liberal? If anything I'm now leaning Libertarian, or maybe a Tea Party member. The repubs have moved way further to the left than I can stand. Are all of you blind??? Can't you see the party is not conservative, or following the constitution anymore? This forum is amazing! Logic completely takes a break here. I give up, this is like trying to get Dem libs to stop raising taxes.

X2

[Cujo0920]

http://news.yahoo.com/mississippi-senate-runoff-black-voters-save-thad-cochran-000003898.html

Establishment GOP dinosaur Thad Cochran relies on Democrats to fight off challenge from Tea Party candidate. Go figure.

[Bailey Guns]

X2

X2 if you believe in dramatic over-generalizations about not only the republican party, republicans and even forum members.

[Cujo0920]

X2 if you believe that Great-Kazoo, Buck Farak, and Big E3 should be sitting on the porch of their group home, waving bye-bye to passing traffic with imbecilic grins on their empty moon-like faces, rather than posting from the facility PC they're supposed to use to find car-wash or recycling center jobs.

[milwaukeeshaker]

I'm not "carrying water" for anybody. I just happen to share some of the same opinions, and would like for him, and others to be able to express themselves without being attacked. On this entire thread it looks to me that he responds with vitriol after he is attacked, that's called defending yourself. Nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to be insulted, don't start the insults.

Hey, the guy you're carrying water for asked to dial it back. Clearly you can see who honored that request.

[sroz]

This is why I am an independent. Will not blindly follow any party nor blindly follow any man. Although I tend to vote republican, I also tend to distrust most politicians regardless of their party affiliation.

[Cujo0920]

I'm not "carrying water" for anybody. I just happen to share some of the same opinions, and would like for him, and others to be able to express themselves without being attacked. On this entire thread it looks to me that he responds with vitriol after he is attacked, that's called defending yourself. Nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to be insulted, don't start the insults.

While I appreciate the sentiment and support, Milwaukeeshaker, I consider being "attacked" by toads like Great-Kazoo and his minions a badge of honor. The Dems have their Obama Zombies and we've got our braying jackasses who think just because someone has "GOP" after their title they can do no wrong. Never mind these ankle-biters; in the big scheme of things dupes and shills like them are irrelevant. Let them yap away in their own echo chamber. While they may be a few IQ points short of "moron," this thread has so far generated more than 800 views, and I'd like to think the silent majority can judge the points I've made on their own merits, or at least be honest and thoughtful critics.

[Irving]

While I appreciate the sentiment and support, Milwaukeeshaker, I consider being "attacked" by toads like Great-Kazoo and his minions a badge of honor. The Dems have their Obama Zombies and we've got our braying jackasses who think just because someone has "GOP" after their title they can do no wrong. Never mind these ankle-biters; in the big scheme of things dupes and shills like them are irrelevant. Let them yap away in their own echo chamber. While they may be a few IQ points short of "moron," this thread has so far generated more than 800 views, and I'd like to think the silent majority can judge the points I've made on their own merits, or at least be honest and thoughtful critics.

I haven't seen a single person talk about anything in this thread except the way your present yourself. Not a single person has defended anyone that you've mentioned. So if you can go on and on and on without conversation from the other participants, what exactly is the point? If you're just talking to yourself anyway, why bother starting a thread?

[Cujo0920]

I haven't seen a single person talk about anything in this thread except the way your present yourself. Not a single person has defended anyone that you've mentioned. So if you can go on and on and on without conversation from the other participants, what exactly is the point? If you're just talking to yourself anyway, why bother starting a thread?

This thread should have nothing to do with me. It should have everything to do with the subject at hand: reclaiming the GOP from sellouts like Cantor who are unscrupulous frauds masquerading as Republicans and who cave every time a vote of real substance comes up. Or worse yet, pushing for things like TARP that are a blatant rip-off of taxpayers for the benefit of the kleptocrats. Follow the money and you can see who their pimps are. So the choice comes down to this: go with the status quo (how's that working out for ya, America?) or start throwing the bums out and electing replacements who will do what we send them to Washington to do: represent We the People.

[Ronin13]

Cujo- I had a wise man once tell me: There are two kinds of men in this world- men who bitch about things that bother them, and men who do something about them. Which one are you? Obviously you're not the latter as you continually bad-mouth the GOP, and call some of those in the party "scumbags." While I agree not everyone in elected positions are truly in it for serving we the people, I donate time, money, and efforts to those who actually do serve the people and not themselves. We all know there are people like McCain and Graham who are screwing our party over, however, as has been stated before, there isn't a whole lot that we can do from our place in CO outside of helping those in their districts to get them out. I'd be more worried about here at home, where you can readily make a change. That starts at the local level, elect a good, conservative Sheriff, then state legislators. I for one am doing what I can in my area to get rid of Jeanne Nicholson, the harlot who lied to the face of hundreds of people in the Evergreen/Conifer area about the last gun laws, and I think we have a shot at winning. We can reclaim the house and senate here, then in DC but only as far as our votes take us... The other states will have to wake up and do their own good from their home, all we can do is help in what ways we can. Bitching about it sure does a lot, though, huh? [Sarcasm2]

[Irving]

So rather than continuing to talk about an election that is already over (Cantor), do you have something more productive to bring up?

[MED]

I spent my early years working in a congressional office, a think tank, and two state legislatures. I changed careers because I quickly learned there is a problem with the system, and the work was entirely too frustrating. Jefferson was a proponent of a small federal government because it was understood what happens with money and power. The rules that confined the federal government were swept under the rug so the machine runs rampant. I strongly believe that the tail wags the dog when it comes to our government. When it comes to our Congressman and Senators, there are good ones and bad ones, but one universal truth is that power corrupts and this machine can be exploited with those willing to use that power.


After the '94 election, the interest groups that made up the Democratic Party were slashing each others throats and alienating the moderates. Consequently, they kept losing elections. During the Bush administration, they came together, and Colorado is the case study. Rutt Bridges and few other wealthy Democrats rebuilt the coalition in Colorado, pushed a favorable redistricting map, and changed the politics in this state. The sad thing is that they successfully recruited moderate Republicans that the conservatives pushed out of the party and consequently took control. The socialists in the Democratic Party moderate there agenda to a certain extent and it is a death by duck bite approach so as not to alienate the moderates, but the eventual outcome is so incredibly disastrous if you believe in liberty. Today, the interest groups that make up the Republican Party are doing exactly what the Democrats did in the 90s. Our losses will continue until we rebuild the coalition (not party, not one interest group's beliefs, but an entire coalition right of center). If the moderates and conservatives are not willing to work together and find common ground, we can just resign ourselves to bitching about it from the outside looking in and watch the American Dream fade into darkness. I have no problem going after corrupt politicians, but if the general view of the party is so negative as shown by the OP, then we are screwed.

[68Charger]

I'd say he did a good job... 75 replies to a troll post? mission accomplished

[centrarchidae]

X2 if you believe that Great-Kazoo, Buck Farak, and Big E3 should be sitting on the porch of their group home, waving bye-bye to passing traffic with imbecilic grins on their empty moon-like faces, rather than posting from the facility PC they're supposed to use to find car-wash or recycling center jobs.

This is what happens when you "dial back" the personal attacks?

Is this the new civility that your president promised us after a leftie nutjob shot a Dem congresswomen?

[Cujo0920]

I spent my early years working in a congressional office, a think tank, and two state legislatures. I changed careers because I quickly learned there is a problem with the system, and the work was entirely too frustrating. Jefferson was a proponent of a small federal government because it was understood what happens with money and power. The rules that confined the federal government were swept under the rug so the machine runs rampant. I strongly believe that the tail wags the dog when it comes to our government. When it comes to our Congressman and Senators, there are good ones and bad ones, but one universal truth is that power corrupts and this machine can be exploited with those willing to use that power.


After the '94 election, the interest groups that made up the Democratic Party were slashing each others throats and alienating the moderates. Consequently, they kept losing elections. During the Bush administration, they came together, and Colorado is the case study. Rutt Bridges and few other wealthy Democrats rebuilt the coalition in Colorado, pushed a favorable redistricting map, and changed the politics in this state. The sad thing is that they successfully recruited moderate Republicans that the conservatives pushed out of the party and consequently took control. The socialists in the Democratic Party moderate there agenda to a certain extent and it is a death by duck bite approach so as not to alienate the moderates, but the eventual outcome is so incredibly disastrous if you believe in liberty. Today, the interest groups that make up the Republican Party are doing exactly what the Democrats did in the 90s. Our losses will continue until we rebuild the coalition (not party, not one interest group's beliefs, but an entire coalition right of center). If the moderates and conservatives are not willing to work together and find common ground, we can just resign ourselves to bitching about it from the outside looking in and watch the American Dream fade into darkness. I have no problem going after corrupt politicians, but if the general view of the party is so negative as shown by the OP, then we are screwed.

Finally, an intelligent, thoughtful poster for a change. I make a sharp distinction between the corrupt establishment RINOs and their craven pursuit of big-money donors with agendas, and the GOP itself. The Republican Party is still the best and only real bulwark against socialism run amok. The rejection of the slimeball crony-capitalist Cantor shows that the Republican base is capable of throwing off their complacency and holding their representatives accountable when they sell out, as Cantor and his ilk have done. But the party itself can and must be salvaged, which will require activism, involvement, and financial commitment on the part of the grassroots - and not in billionaire-funded "astroturf" organizations, either. The grassroots organizing campaign that ejected Morse and his fellow Bloomberg minions from office was a brilliant example of ordinary people banding together and saying, "Oh, HELL no!" But we need to hold our own corrupt bastards accountable, as well as those of the Dems.

+1 for the Jefferson quote. His wise counsel to the young republic has never seemed more prescient:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -- Thomas Jefferson

And even older wisdom: "Power should be confined to those who are not in love with it." - Plato

Cantor got less than 2% of his campaign contributions from small donors. The rest came from his bankster and corporate pimps:

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00013131&cycle=2014

Not so different from Mitch McConnel, another Wall Street stooge:

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2014&cid=N00003389&type=I

But in fairness to them, the Clinton clan wrote the book on crony capitalism (remember Hillary's $1000 "investment" that returned $100,000? Or her brothers' hazelnut "investments" in Abkazia?)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-24/chelsea-clintons-heartfelt-confession-i-was-curious-if-i-could-care-about-money-and-

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-24/hillary-clinton-tries-to-pivot-after-wealth-comments.html

Since she left the government last year, Hillary Clinton, 66, has been giving speeches, sometimes for hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Bill Clinton, 67, also makes paid speeches and appearances, receiving $200,000 each in October 2012 from Vanguard Group Inc. and Deutsche Bank AG, according to Hillary Clinton’s disclosures.

[Bailey Guns]

Finally, an intelligent, thoughtful poster for a change.

Surely you meant in addition to your posts...didn't you?

[ROFL2]

[GilpinGuy]

And the troll grows fatter...keep feeding it.

[Great-Kazoo]

And the troll grows fatter...keep feeding it.



https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608041105859675690&pid=15.1

[Cujo0920]

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/06/24/officials-at-the-ex-im-bank-are-being-investigated-as-it-faces-a-serious-fight-for-survival/

Export-Import bank shaping up as another battle between crony-capitalist RINOS (aligned with Obama, naturally) and genuine Republicans who are fed up with taxpayer subsidies of private banking interests.

[Irving]

Cujo, try writing one of your posts without all of the catch-phrases every other line.

Anyway, I was surprised to see Beuperez won the GOP nomination tonight. The news reported that the "Tea Party Activist Kopp lost." Seemed inappropriate.

[Great-Kazoo]

Cujo, try writing one of your posts without all of the catch-phrases every other line.

Anyway, I was surprised to see Beuperez won the GOP nomination tonight. The news reported that the "Tea Party Activist Kopp lost." Seemed inappropriate.

He's C&P everything but actual Colorado politics.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Bennet is an Obama plant. Warner is also a Democrat albeit from the Clinton wing of the party. Much as I dislike what Mitch McConnell has done (or hasn't done), why the hell would you blame the GOP for Warner and Bennet? As bad as McCain has been, do you honestly think he or Romney would have appointed Eric Holder to AG or anticonstitutional idiots like Sotomayor and Kagan? As much as people dislike the Bushes, remember the first Bush appointed Clarence Thomas and the second Bush appointed Samuel Alito.

Try to get some facts and learn some logical reasoning before you post more uniformed illogical diatribes.

[Cujo0920]

Bennet is an Obama plant. Warner is also a Democrat albeit from the Clinton wing of the party. Much as I dislike what Mitch McConnell has done (or hasn't done), why the hell would you blame the GOP for Warner and Bennet? As bad as McCain has been, do you honestly think he or Romney would have appointed Eric Holder to AG or anticonstitutional idiots like Sotomayor and Kagan? As much as people dislike the Bushes, remember the first Bush appointed Clarence Thomas and the second Bush appointed Samuel Alito.

Try to get some facts and learn some logical reasoning before you post more uniformed illogical diatribes.

You completely missed the point. At the apex of politics, distinctions like "Republican" and "Democrat" are mostly irrelevant. What is relevant is that the movers and shakers in both parties are on the make and on the take. They have the same big donors and reap the rewards of pimping out their votes (on legislation written almost exclusively by lobbyists for corporate or Wall Street interests). They have no true principles or convictions, just greed and ambition for power. Once Cantor leaves "public service" he, like the Clintons, Warner, and Bennet, will go to work for the same banking or corporate interests whose agendas he advanced while he was in office - only they can pay him more directly for services rendered while he was supposedly representing his constituents.

Bill Clinton gets $200K a speech. Hillary got a $14 MILLION advance on her shitty stinker of a book (that's already on the discount rack).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/us/politics/sales-of-hillary-clintons-new-memoir-drop-sharply-in-2nd-week.html?_r=0

Really? I mean, WTF. Who's paying those fees? And what did they get in return? This is what crony capitalism looks like up close and personal. And we get the bill. Even the media (in the UK and Europe, not our corporate-owned propaganda outlets) are calling Hillary out on her BS:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/hillary-clinton/10926887/Hillary-Clinton-admits-being-inartful-about-personal-wealth.html

I don't "blame" the GOP for Warner, Bennet, and the other corrupt Dems. I EXPECT sleaze and corruption from Dems - that's who they are and what they do. Expecting them to refrain from being pigmen would be like asking my dog not to lick his balls. I do blame voters, regardless of affiliation, who install or maintain in office politicians of either party who are for sale to the highest bidder, or who tolerate corruption in "our guy" because he's marginally less sleazy than "their guy."

More from the Republicrat kabuki theater:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-25/boehner-sue-obama


Now that Eric Cantor is history, crushed by an unexpected Tea Party "David" (literally and metaphorically) as the US population finally begins to say no to an artifical "two-party" system which is quite united in only serving its Wall Street masters, it is time for that other republican, none other than the consummate folding lawn chair John Boehner, to scramble fearing for his own political career. And since the only way the GOP knows to challenge the implosion of the US republic is by making loud noises and providing hours of hollow theatrical entertainment, here comes Boehner with the biggest soap opera he could muster: moments ago the speaker announced he plans to sue Obama "on behalf of the House over his frequent use of executive actions that Republicans believe are beyond his authority."

[Cujo0920]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/06/establishment-gop-finds-35k-dems-to-carry-cochran/

Establishment RINO Cochran relied on Dem voters to secure his victory overTea Party challenger. Go figure.

[Ronin13]

"Republican" and "Democrat" are mostly irrelevant
If what you say is true, then there should be no deadlock in congress and anything can get passed without debate....
Which leads me to believe:
46387

[Cujo0920]

Nice use of selective editing, Ronin13. My full quote was: "At the apex of politics, distinctions like 'Republican' and 'Democrat' are mostly irrelevant." Sorry, I shouldn't use big words like "apex" that cause you to furrow your uni-brow.

Grassroots Republicans, who tend to be conservative, and establishment GOP "leaders" (who couldn't lead ants to a picnic) are two very different animals. As far as debate or deadlock in Congress, did that stop abominations like Obamacare or Wall Street bailouts or endless debt ceiling increases from being rammed up our collective asses? I'm guessing you're not a taxpayer - you seem to be a pretty airtight case for "at-risk adult" disability payments - but rhetoric aside, there's not much difference between the RINOS who dominate the top echelons of the establishment GOP, and their DNC opposite numbers.

[Cujo0920]

Meanwhile, crony capitalist exemplar Hillary Clinton's books sales crater amidst disastrous reviews (despite her $14 million advance for services rendered). A waste of wood pulp, but she'll be laughing all the way to the bank. Slick Willie's repeal of Glass-Stegal set up a frenzy of Wall Street fraud that taxpayers will be saddled with for generations (and no doubt contributed to his rich "speech fees", but hey, the establishment GOP fought it tooth and nail).

No, wait....

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-26/hillarys-book-sales-crash-after-1st-week-reviews-disastrous

[Ronin13]

Nice use of selective editing, Ronin13. My full quote was: "At the apex of politics, distinctions like 'Republican' and 'Democrat' are mostly irrelevant." Sorry, I shouldn't use big words like "apex" that cause you to furrow your uni-brow.

Grassroots Republicans, who tend to be conservative, and establishment GOP "leaders" (who couldn't lead ants to a picnic) are two very different animals. As far as debate or deadlock in Congress, did that stop abominations like Obamacare or Wall Street bailouts or endless debt ceiling increases from being rammed up our collective asses? I'm guessing you're not a taxpayer - you seem to be a pretty airtight case for "at-risk adult" disability payments - but rhetoric aside, there's not much difference between the RINOS who dominate the top echelons of the establishment GOP, and their DNC opposite numbers.
Numbers. I don't see the division in the democrats that I do within the conservatives. They're busy uniting to undo the 200+ years of America we've come to love, meanwhile, there's so much infighting within the republican party that it's almost amazing how we still have enough R's in Washington to at least make for a bit of debate.

[Great-Kazoo]

Numbers. I don't see the division in the democrats that I do within the conservatives. They're busy uniting to undo the 200+ years of America we've come to love, meanwhile, there's so much infighting within the republican party that it's almost amazing how we still have enough R's in Washington to at least make for a bit of debate.

Like this IDIOT ? All we asked for was R's to shut the fuk up about homosexuals, gay marriage, and abortion. Focus on ECONOMY, ECONOMY, ECONOMY.. 24 hrs later it's all about the same shit.

http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_26041276/el-paso-county-gop-candidate-klingenschmitt-compares-obama?source=JBarTicker

[Ronin13]

Like this IDIOT ? All we asked for was R's to shut the fuk up about homosexuals, gay marriage, and abortion. Focus on ECONOMY, ECONOMY, ECONOMY.. 24 hrs later it's all about the same shit.

http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_26041276/el-paso-county-gop-candidate-klingenschmitt-compares-obama?source=JBarTicker
I asked Ryan Call to stop sending me emails... They're too busy fighting among themselves to convince me that the CO GOP needs my donations. Not saying I won't work to vote out the incumbent D's, but holy crap, they throw more mud at other R's than they do at the D opposition.

[Cujo0920]

Like this IDIOT ? All we asked for was R's to shut the fuk up about homosexuals, gay marriage, and abortion. Focus on ECONOMY, ECONOMY, ECONOMY.. 24 hrs later it's all about the same shit.

http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_26041276/el-paso-county-gop-candidate-klingenschmitt-compares-obama?source=JBarTicker

Amen. Economy and LIBERTY. Let each state sort out the rest for themselves.

[Cujo0920]

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2014/06/26/former-limo-driver-accuses-raj-rajaratnam-of-paying-inmates-for-special-treatment/

Meanwhile, crony capitalism has the .01% covered even in the extremely unlikely event they experience actual consequences for their egregious fraud and swindles. Unsurprising that he's getting cushy treatment, considering his roster of DNC political whores [and RINO Bill Frist (R-Tennessee)].

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/05/hedge-fund-titan-raj-rajaratnam/

[Cujo0920]

"The pitchforks are coming for the plutocrats" - though I would make a distinction between self-made billionaires and crony capitalists, i.e. the Wall Street grifters.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014.html#.U619QfldWao

Meanwhile, the rigged casino markets keep churning higher...until they don't.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-27/todays-wtf-moment-day-1550et

And Bill Clinton is making bank on his "speeches" - totally unrelated to his actions while in office that benefited the .01%, you can be sure.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-27/dead-unbroke-bill-clinton-was-paid-105-million-542-speeches-2001

One of Clinton's biggest fans: Goldman Sachs has hired Bill Clinton for eight speeches over the years totaling $1.35 million, many of them client meetings in such locales as Paris, Phoenix, and the South Carolina beach resort of Kiawah Island. (Note: Goldman Sachs reaped billions from Clinton's repeal of Glass-Stegal, enacted after the 1929 market crash to prevent just the kind of speculative excesses and banker recklessness that caused the market to implode back then. Goldman collected billions more from the 2008 bailout pushed through by both Bush and Obama and their Treasury Secretaries, with the Fed ensuring trillions in toxic banker liabilities were transferred to the taxpayers [with Rep. Tancredo and Senators Bennet and Udall cravenly facilitating the ripoff]).

Goldman also has paid Hillary Clinton (out of pure generosity of spirit): She addressed tech entrepreneurs in Arizona last fall and women in finance in New York this year. (Note: I'm still not quite clear on the distinction between taking brides while in office [illegal] and collecting inflated "speaking fees" from audiences comprised mostly of members of the groups that made out like bandits thanks to your policies while engaged in "public service.")

“President Clinton’s always interesting, but there’s a lot more demand right now for her because she just came out of government and people want to hear about that, whether it’s Iran or Russia or the big challenges she’s faced, and about the dysfunction in Washington,” said a Goldman executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal thinking. (Translation: Billary scratched our back, now we're returning the favor - the essence of crony capitalism.)

Brain-dead Millennials may have voted in droves for Obama, but at least some students are pushing back on Hillary's outrageous speaking fees.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-dozens-of-free-speeches-2014-6

But the GOP leadership has fought against sleaze and corruption tooth and nail. No, wait. They were active participants and enablers.

http://www.rinolist.org/2010/08/list-of-republicans-who-voted-for-tarp/

[Cujo0920]

George Carlin in the best three-minute performance of his career: "It's a big club and you (Great Kazoo and pals) ain't in it."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0

[ThunderSquirrel]

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l113/DarthTaz/trolling.jpg

[Bailey Guns]

Posturbation...it feels so good.

[Cujo0920]

Why the Fed is 'tolerating' asset bubbles:

http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2014/6/30/ubs-the-secret-reason-the-fed-is-tolerating-bubbles.html

[Ronin13]

Just a reminder for you Cujo, especially the last sentence:
46631
Oh, and you're not your fucking khakis.

[Cujo0920]

Rand Paul slams "corporate welfare" and fat cat donors, while his biggest donor is a hedge fund manager. Got hypocrisy?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-01/rand-paul-slams-fat-cats-with-hedge-fund-in-top-donors.html

Senator Rand Paul has preached the political peril of being too close to financiers as he gears up for a likely 2016 presidential bid.

“We cannot be the party of fat cats, rich people, and Wall Street,” the Kentucky Republican told the audience at the Freedom Summit in New Hampshire in April. “Corporate welfare should once and for all be ended.”

At the same time, the founders and employees of Mason Capital Management, a $13.6 billion New York hedge fund, have become leading contributors to Paul’s political aims. The hedge fund has offices in London and San Francisco and offers clients offshore investments through a limited partnership in the Cayman Islands, among other strategies.

[Cujo0920]

Jefferson's warning to "beware the monied interests" falls on deaf ears in today's Washington D.C. The plutocrats don't run things from behind the scenes: they ARE the scene.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/30/washington-political-power-corporations-campaign-donations

[68Charger]

Can we'd get a mod to rename this thread to "Cujo's rant corner"?

[Great-Kazoo]

Can we'd get a mod to rename this thread to "Cujo's rant corner"?

How about Sir Cuntsalot corner ? Consider it the Pewees playhouse of firearms.
What do we have in the mailbox today mister outoftouch ? OOOO another letter from an Oligarch corrupt special interest entity. How nice.

[ThunderSquirrel]

The way your posts are structured, I feel like its a bad movie news network.

"Headlines filled with buzzwords that actually have nothing to do with the article. Tune in at 10 to find out more!"

[<MADDOG>]

My $.02: I have yet to see someone refute, with a coherent argument; the opines & articles that Cujo has posted.

Anyway, please raise your hand if you believe our current government isnot corrupt!

[Great-Kazoo]

My $.02: I have yet to see someone refute, with a coherent argument; the opines & articles that Cujo has posted.

Anyway, please raise your hand if you believe our current government isnot corrupt!

all .gov is corrupt. Instead of C&P others peoples shit perhaps him adding something productive may help. Browse the rest of L&P, hell browse the rest of the forum. See anything productive from him? See any discussion of CO .gov. Who fukin cares about cantor? I don't

[<MADDOG>]

"all .gov is corrupt".

So that's a +1 to our government is corrupt. Where did Cujo deviate again?

"Instead of C&P others peoples shit perhaps him adding something productive may help. Browse the rest of L&P, hell browse the rest of the forum. See anything productive from him?"

I am sorry; but I'm lost on this comment. I am as vulnerable as the next guy to whiskey, but what?

"See any discussion of CO .gov. Who fukin cares about cantor?"

You and I disagree on that one Great One; I don't see it that way. I believe we should pay attention to these/those events. There are simply too many yahoos that wish to impose their will upon other States.

My $.02.

[68Charger]

A guy named <MADDOG> comes to Cujo's defense?

Seriously, can't make up stuff this ironic... [ROFL3]


http://youtube.com/watch?v=v0k21yeVMbM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0k21yeVMbM

[zteknik]

You know I see this sort of dribble posted on just about all the sites.
Like Kazoo said-C&P. I get a visual picture of some paranoid guy panic posting from some safe room in the basement.[panic]
And that's all they do is scream doom and tell the whole web about it. And that's all they do ,no other input.

Yes ,yes I get it, the .gov is corrupt and all that- we all know the problems were facing.
But how about a solution? How about posting and discussing a honest tangible solution? Without ringing the bells of doom.
For every problem there is a solution- there's no solution in beating the same horse.....[beatdeadhorse]
Just my .02[2cents]

[Cujo0920]

As usual, Great Kazoo, you miss the point. This is not a "government is corrupt" rant. It is a call to fellow Republicans to root out sleaze and corruption in our party, which is the last bulwark protecting the interests of the middle and working classes. Far too many establishment GOP leaders are beholden to Wall Street or corporate interests with consequences that should be clear to anyone with their eyes open.

The movers and shakers in BOTH parties are too susceptible to influence-peddling from beltway lobbyists and usually make lucrative careers with their former patrons once they are no longer in politics. So how well are they representing their constituents? Eric Cantor is the poster boy of a GOP candidate who got elected by appealing to the conservative GOP base, but once in office showed his true colors and was for sale to the highest bidder. VA primary voters did their civic duty by dumping him in favor of a conservative upstart who seems to have actual principles.

The basic bottom line: crony capitalism is screwing over anyone not in the .01%.

This is my last post on the subject. Have a pleasant day. Mods, please lock or delete the thread.

[Bailey Guns]

Well, since us backwoods, hillbilly, inbred intellectual midgets can't seem to appreciate the incredible complexity of your near god-like grasp of the complexities of corruption in modern politics in the US, maybe your talents and self-realized, hyper-inflated ego would be appreciated on another forum. Because, obviously, you know, we don't get it and we aren't worthy.

[68Charger]

this will be my last post on the subject. Have a pleasant day.

Thank you, you do the same...

[Aloha_Shooter]

My $.02: I have yet to see someone refute, with a coherent argument; the opines & articles that Cujo has posted.

Anyway, please raise your hand if you believe our current government isnot corrupt!

I have yet to see a coherent argument FROM Cujo so question the need for coherent refutation. Your statement above is a prima facie example of incoherence since Cujo's original statement was about the GOP being corrupt but you're asking for support for that argument by asking who doesn't believe the current government is corrupt. There's a lot I don't like about the Establishment GOP but there's a lot I don't like about certain Tea Party or Libertarian-minded GOP or Libertarians. Hell, I don't even agree with myself 100% of the time.

[Dave]

How is this thread still open? [beatdeadhorse]

[davsel]

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/01/05/dmb-money-8b2dcf844f8d233f7b822cf598cd48c7a2700d09-s40-c85.jpg

[HoneyBadger]

I just skimmed through this amusing and frustrating thread. Cujo, I think I might agree with some of the things you are trying to say (Politicians are corrupt... no surprise there!) but honestly, it's hard to understand what you are even trying to say. What is the message you are trying to get across? Sum it up in 4 sentences or less. This thread turned into you posting a bunch of random sources pointing to corruption, but your abuses of catch-phrases, buzzwords, and Alex Jones-ish rhetoric combined with your incomprehensible rambling and "talking down" really turns a lot of people off. Did you just need a political soap box to stand on for a bit? If so, then good. I hope you fulfilled that emotional need. Most of us would like to have productive political discussions, but your superiority attitude is a major roadblock to good discussion or debate. Sorry if this thread frustrated you. You might have some good things to say, but you gotta approach it better. It might help if you didn't just complain without offering actionable solutions.

[Bailey Guns]

Exactly...it's not necessarily the message, it's the delivery.

[zteknik]

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o453/jeffs99vulcan/Smileys/ItsDeadJim.jpg

[hatidua]

it's not necessarily the message, it's the delivery.

+1. I think there's a lot of validity to what cujo is putting forth but it may need a somewhat more eloquent messenger - for a host of reasons.