Roommate on probation with my firearms in apartment?

[ipleadda2nd]

Well, that's the situation. I live in an apartment in Adams county. I've had a roommate in this apartment for a few months. His girlfriend is getting out of Boulder county jail for a DUI and is moving in. She will be on probation with an ankle bracelet. I believe there is something about periodic searches of her home as well. We don't party or anything so it will be a clean environment for her. We will live like that for a few months.

The only firearms in the apartment are mine and are locked in a safe in my bedroom's walk-in closet. Neither of them have interest so they won't even see them, let alone have access to them. She supposedly asked her case worker if this situation is OK and the case worker said yes.

I would appreciate any info you have.

[Irving]

No one I've known with a DUI ever had a property search. Should be okay with a safe.

[MED]

I would get it in writing from the case worker and/or county sheriff. You wouldn't want your firearms seized.

[ipleadda2nd]

Thanks guys. I am asking her to get it in writing, just in case.

[Great-Kazoo]

Why is your room mates ankle monitor GF moving in, is she on the lease? If not figure out some way to protect yourself legally. Today she's miss happy maid, tomorrow she's made off with anything not nailed down.

Forgt,t lease wise. IF she is not on the lease. Any LE or related people cannot enter unless you or person on lease is present. She has no legal right to allow access.

Is the room mate paying for an additional person, who is now using your utilities, hot water, cable / internet blah, blah, rah, rah.

[Irving]

Getting in writing is a great idea. The case workers are about as reliable and professional as a DMV temp worker.

[kidicarus13]

Periodic searches of her "home" would not included your room. +1 what Irving said, never heard of a home search on a basic DUI. Unless of course she gives someone reason to search.

[BPTactical]

As long as a "Prohibited Person" has no means of "possession and or control" of a firearm you should be good to go.
Still, call to an attorney would be a prudent move.

[ipleadda2nd]

She is paying for her share of rent and utilities. He will cover for her if she isn't able to for some reason. He's been a good friend for 10 years. She will be added to the lease for sure.

She was in jail for 3 months. This is her 3rd DUI. Other than her occasional drinking relapse (2 times a year on average) she's great. Since the ankle bracelet detects alcohol I'm confident she won't relapse until at least it comes off. By then I'll be out of there.

Do you guys know a place that legally stores firearms, mags and ammo? I would be interested in such a place for a reasonable price.

[kidicarus13]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CCoQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stanford.edu%2Fgroup%2Fstreet law%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FSearch-and-Seizure-Parloe-Handout.pdf&rct=j&q=4th%20amendment%20roommates&ei=isWxU4z8DIWVqAahu4GgCA&usg=AFQjCNFtLhqUUM7qxGzmCb5utl7x7YB3OQ&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k


And that's in liberal California.

[ipleadda2nd]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CCoQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stanford.edu%2Fgroup%2Fstreet law%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FSearch-and-Seizure-Parloe-Handout.pdf&rct=j&q=4th%20amendment%20roommates&ei=isWxU4z8DIWVqAahu4GgCA&usg=AFQjCNFtLhqUUM7qxGzmCb5utl7x7YB3OQ&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CCoQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stanford.edu%2Fgroup%2Fstreet law%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F10%2FSearch-and-Seizure-Parloe-Handout.pdf&rct=j&q=4th%20amendment%20roommates&ei=isWxU4z8DIWVqAahu4GgCA&usg=AFQjCNFtLhqUUM7qxGzmCb5utl7x7YB3OQ&bvm=bv.69837884,d.b2k<br />)


And that's in liberal California.

Sounds promising.

I spoke on the phone with a lawyer. He said it was fine as well, but I need to see the "terms of probation" paperwork she will receive.

[sniper7]

I would make sure the guns are locked up and only you have access to them be it with a combo lock or a key or if the safe has a combo.

i hope for her sake you guys don't drink around her or keep any in the house. I imagine that will help with some issues.

[ipleadda2nd]

Definitely locked up. No drinking at all around her sniper7. The poor girl was violently raped in college by her friend. She drinks until she blacks out to kill her emotions when they get too overwhelming. There's no way in hell I'm going to subject her to an environment that would destroy her.

[ThunderSquirrel]

Many years ago, we had a friend of the family who went through a rough patch and was on probation.
My parents let him crash in the spare bedroom during his probation for about a month while he found a place to live.
His PO had to come to the house, interviewed all of us, and asked if there were any firearms in the house. When we told him yes, he just asked 'Is there a safe here?'
My dad told him that we had one, and he said 'Ok' and that was the end of it.

Disclaimer: That is just my experience. I am not a Lawyer

[Great-Kazoo]

She is paying for her share of rent and utilities. He will cover for her if she isn't able to for some reason. He's been a good friend for 10 years. She will be added to the lease for sure.

She was in jail for 3 months. This is her 3rd DUI. Other than her occasional drinking relapse (2 times a year on average) she's great. Since the ankle bracelet detects alcohol I'm confident she won't relapse until at least it comes off. By then I'll be out of there.

Do you guys know a place that legally stores firearms, mags and ammo? I would be interested in such a place for a reasonable price.

How does an ankle bracelet detect alcohol?? Any place you leave firearms, a BG check will be needed to retrieve them, after 72hrs..

Great friend / room mate and GF with alcohol addiction aside. IF you have a safe and IF these folks are so great. Why do you feel the need to move them off site? Sounds like you're about to see the dark side of friendship.
IMO. for someone who OCCASIONALLY RELAPSES and racks up DUI's , you should really reconsider taking this project on. After an ex friend who had a small herion addiction, we stopped taking in strays.

[MarkUSMC88]

Forgt,t lease wise. IF she is not on the lease. Any LE or related people cannot enter unless you or person on lease is present. She has no legal right to allow access.

The issue is authority to search a home without a warrant. A probation officer can search the home of a probationer without a warrant. This is one of the tenets of being on probation: a lesser expectation of privacy in one's home, car, and person. As such, they can be generally be searched for no reason.

On the issue of authority of others to consent to searches: On one hand, Georgia v. Randolph, 547 U.S. 103 (2006) says that when two people give conflicting permission to search (one says "go ahead" and the other says "where's your warrant?") the officers may only search the common areas, but not the private areas. However, Fernandez v. California, 134 S. Ct. 1126 (2014) says that if the person objecting to the search is no longer present to object to the search, the officers can conduct a full search based on the present consenting person. In that case, the wife gave permission to search, the husband objected to the search, the officers arrested the husband and took him away, then search with full consent. This is good law now, like it or not.

Apparent authority is another issue: if you go out to the store, and your neighbor is on your porch, say potting a plant, and the police show up and ask to search. Your neighbor gives consent, this is a good search, too, as the officers had a good reason to believe their search was under consent of the person living at the house.

If living with someone on probation, always best to secure your stuff. The danger is being charged with providing prohibited items to people who should not have them. Such aid, assistance, or encouragement can furnish evidence of your being an accomplice to their acts of possession.

Also, school everyone on the phrase "where's your warrant?" and "I want my lawyer."

[MarkUSMC88]

How does an ankle bracelet detect alcohol??

It's called a SCRAM in Colorado and needs constant contact with skin which, when a person is drinking alcohol, exudes enough alcohol through the skin to be detected.

And don't try to put a blocker between the sensor and the skin, this is read as a deceptive result and is as bad as a positive result.

http://www.scramsystems.com/index/scram/continuous-alcohol-monitoring

[Great-Kazoo]

The issue is authority to search a home without a warrant. A probation officer can search the home of a probationer without a warrant. This is one of the tenets of being on probation: a lesser expectation of privacy in one's home, car, and person. As such, they can be generally be searched for no reason.

On the issue of authority of others to consent to searches: On one hand, Georgia v. Randolph, 547 U.S. 103 (2006) says that when two people give conflicting permission to search (one says "go ahead" and the other says "where's your warrant?") the officers may only search the common areas, but not the private areas. However, Fernandez v. California, 134 S. Ct. 1126 (2014) says that if the person objecting to the search is no longer present to object to the search, the officers can conduct a full search based on the present consenting person. In that case, the wife gave permission to search, the husband objected to the search, the officers arrested the husband and took him away, then search with full consent. This is good law now, like it or not.

Apparent authority is another issue: if you go out to the store, and your neighbor is on your porch, say potting a plant, and the police show up and ask to search. Your neighbor gives consent, this is a good search, too, as the officers had a good reason to believe their search was under consent of the person living at the house.

If living with someone on probation, always best to secure your stuff. The danger is being charged with providing prohibited items to people who should not have them. Such aid, assistance, or encouragement can furnish evidence of your being an accomplice to their acts of possession.

Also, school everyone on the phrase "where's your warrant?" and "I want my lawyer."


It's called a SCRAM in Colorado and needs constant contact with skin which, when a person is drinking alcohol, exudes enough alcohol through the skin to be detected.

And don't try to put a blocker between the sensor and the skin, this is read as a deceptive result and is as bad as a positive result.

http://www.scramsystems.com/index/scram/continuous-alcohol-monitoring

Thank you for clarifying & explaining a few items.

[ipleadda2nd]

How does an ankle bracelet detect alcohol?? Any place you leave firearms, a BG check will be needed to retrieve them, after 72hrs..

Great friend / room mate and GF with alcohol addiction aside. IF you have a safe and IF these folks are so great. Why do you feel the need to move them off site? Sounds like you're about to see the dark side of friendship.
IMO. for someone who OCCASIONALLY RELAPSES and racks up DUI's , you should really reconsider taking this project on. After an ex friend who had a small herion addiction, we stopped taking in strays.

I hear you! I would write her off as broken and a lost cause. But my roommate won't. This is how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I'm in the middle of a trashy situation. It's my responsibility to get myself out of it which will take a few months.

[zteknik]

Suggest you explain to her when she does go to"meetings" and gets her paper signed, to stick around and listen to what they are trying to teach.
It would help her from constant relapses. I constantly sign the same peoples paper over and over again until you just don't see them anymore-only if they would open up their ears..
And then I get a few that actually have stuck around a few years and learned something.

From my experience just as long as the prohibited person has no access to the firearms its ok. Like it was said get the terms of probation and get something in writing stating that your in the clear.

[Circuits]

Getting back to firearms, don't leave your guns carelessly out in common areas, and other than that, it's not your job to police the firearms away from the ineligibles.

It's HER job to not mess with firearms, not yours to prevent her from having any opportunity to do so.

[SideShow Bob]

If you don't already have one, put a solid wood door and a good deadbolt on the door to your room. And lock it when you are not in house. Heck, even lock it even when you are there, that should help prevent the searches without your consent.

[lex137]

I wouldn't mind you storing them at my place if your willing to pay JK. I hope it works out I know centennial gun club does gun storage, no idea on price, rules, and so on.

[Great-Kazoo]

If she is going to be on the lease. Put an immediate eviction clause in there, outside of the normal paperwork. She must adhere to her classes etc. IF she fails a test and or misses a class. There's the door. Enabling an addict, even the smallest thing, may be considered weakness. Something to exploit and or abuse. Never mistake kindness for weakness. It's something addicts do and do often.

[Circuits]

If she is going to be on the lease. Put an immediate eviction clause in there, outside of the normal paperwork. She must adhere to her classes etc. IF she fails a test and or misses a class. There's the door. Enabling an addict, even the smallest thing, may be considered weakness. Something to exploit and or abuse. Never mistake kindness for weakness. It's something addicts do and do often.
I don't believe this is allowable for a private residential contract... housing law gets complicated.

[nisils14]

If it were up to me, I'd would rather move my stuff to someplace else. I understand that you have a safe, but I would rather not have my firearms and a probationer get potentially mixed up. Out of sight, out of mind kinda philosophy I guess.

[Hound]

Seemed pertinent in that you have no rights if you are on parole or on bail. This would extend to property around them. This site may give you same real legal info that none of us could... And its free ;):

http://fourthamendment.com/?p=12333

D.N.H.: Bail conditions can permit otherwise illegal searches of the person; same as parole search

Posted on July 1, 2014 (http://fourthamendment.com/?p=12333) by Hall (http://fourthamendment.com/?author=2)
Officers had reasonable suspicion to conduct a patdown of the defendant. Even if they didn’t, a bail condition of his would have permitted it. United States v. Drane, 2014 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 88729 (D. N.H. June 30, 2014):
Finally, even if the police lacked reasonable suspicion to search Drane for weapons, that search nevertheless did not violate Drane’s Fourth Amendment rights. At the time of the traffic stop, Drane was subject to bail conditions that, “[i]n order to determine if [he] ha[d] violated any prohibitions of [the] bond regarding … illegal drugs,” he would “submit to searches of [his] person … at any time without articulable suspicion or probable cause.” The Court of Appeals has ruled that, “even in the absence of articulable suspicion,” similar bail conditions “independently justified” the police in searching a suspect, “see[ing] no reason why [it] should not give the plain language of the bail condition force and effect.” United States v. Gates, 709 F.3d 58, 64 (1st Cir. 2013). The same result is in order here–particularly since Drane has not argued otherwise. Because the officers’ actions toward Drane after they stopped him in Biddeford, Maine, in June 2012 did not violate his Fourth Amendment rights, his motion to suppress the evidence resulting from that stop (including the crack cocaine he ultimately produced from his underwear) is denied.

In Gates, a panel of the First Circuit held merely, with zero analysis: “After all, the defendant had agreed, as part of his bail conditions incident to the charges of disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, to submit to searches of his person and residence at any time, even in the absence of articulable suspicion. We see no reason why we should not give the plain language of such a bail condition force and effect.” The court relied on Samson and a First Circuit parole search case. The short answer: A parolee has been convicted, but a person on pretrial release has not. Big difference, which they cavalierly don’t brush off; they don’t even recognize it.

Views (19)

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[Great-Kazoo]

I don't believe this is allowable for a private residential contract... housing law gets complicated.


She will be sub-leasing off the two guys lease. They can write anything they want, as she is not on the original lease. Will a local court or mediator uphold it, who knows??
I 'll finish my reply to your post under the other quote


If it were up to me, I'd would rather move my stuff to someplace else. I understand that you have a safe, but I would rather not have my firearms and a probationer get potentially mixed up. Out of sight, out of mind kinda philosophy I guess.


So the DUI chick is going to move in. Regarding the wording of the sub-lease. WHY NOT make sure there is a fail safe to avoid a drama drawn scene, because she had ANOTHER relapse (oh i am sorry please give me a chance) smashed up the boyfriends room. Unless the 2 guys want to have local LE remove her (unlikely) What recourse do they / he have to get this time bomb off the premises ?

In regard to his firearms and other acc. IF as in an early post as the OP inquired. There is a need to remove said items. WHY THE HELL IS SHE EVEN ALLOWED TO LIVE THERE? I know the OP is looking for another place. Until then, why have that much more of an uncomfortable living scene than needed? Why put the OP's accessibility of personal protection out of reach, to prevent Ms DUI from getting them.
Curious, will there be access to alcohol in the dwelling? Not talking beer, wine, vodka. I'm talking mouth wash, furniture polish, cooking wines etc. Unless there is going to be a complete limit to anything harmful, the removal of guns, is meaningless.
Having dealt with ALCOHOLICS (which this woman is) one would be surprised what lengths they go to for a buzz.

[Martinjmpr]

It's not a perfect solution but you might consider doing what I did when I was in the military. I lived in the barracks where firearms were prohibited. The "official" rule was that if you were single and lived in the barracks, you were required to turn you POW's (Privately Owned Firearms) over to the Company armorer, who would then inventory them, noting the serial numbers, and store them in the arms room with the other weapons. If you wanted your weapons, it was up to you to contact the armorer and make arrangements to pick them up, signing them out and back in just as if they were one of your government issued weapons.

I'm pretty sure that in 10 years of active duty, I never knew anybody who did that. What most of us did was store them at the off-post home of a trusted friend, or, what I did was this:

When I got to a new duty station, the first place I'd stop - even before I signed into the post - was at a "U-Store-It" type place. I looked for one that was in a decent neighborhood and had good security (like gated access with alarms and a live-on-premises manager.) I would sign a contract for a small storage unit and into the unit would go my weapons and ammo. Then I would report into post and when inprocessing, they would ask "Do you have any privately owned firearms that you will be bringing onto the post?" I would truthfully answer "NO" because I always kept them off-post.

When I needed them, it was a simple matter of driving to my storage unit and picking them up, and bringing them back when I was done. At Fort Bragg, there was a gun club and shooting range on-post and I would bring my firearms onto post to shoot there. This was really not much of a risk because this was pre-9/11 and Bragg was an "open post" - you could just drive right on. Noawadays it would be riskier because Bragg (and every other military installation to my knowledge) is a closed post and there is always a possibility your vehicle will be searched (although not a large one.)

Anyway, getting back to my point - you could simply get a small storage locker, put your gun safe there and have access to your firearms when you needed them, without having to worry about the probationer. It's been a while since I've had a storage unit but you can probably find one for less than $100/month. Something to consider, anyway.

[Great-Kazoo]

Anyway, getting back to my point - you could simply get a small storage locker, put your gun safe there and have access to your firearms when you needed them, without having to worry about the probationer. It's been a while since I've had a storage unit but you can probably find one for less than $100/month. Something to consider, anyway.

Why so many advocates for him doing OFF site storage??? The DUI is the issue / problem, NOT his guns [facepalm] Some many are willing to make CONCESSIONS for a DUI. What other things would everyone be in favor of giving up??

[ipleadda2nd]

Great responses guys!

I was thinking of putting the majority of guns and ammo offsite. And keep one handgun around for protection. That way worse case I loose one gun and not everything else. Especially all those 30 rounders that are irreplaceable in CO. I think that's what I'll do for a bit and see how things go.

With the new laws how would I store some guns at a friend's place without doing a transfer for each? I suppose bring my own safe that only I know the combo to?

[Great-Kazoo]

Great responses guys!

I was thinking of putting the majority of guns and ammo offsite. And keep one handgun around for protection. That way worse case I loose one gun and not everything else. Especially all those 30 rounders that are irreplaceable in CO. I think that's what I'll do for a bit and see how things go.

With the new laws how would I store some guns at a friend's place without doing a transfer for each? I suppose bring my own safe that only I know the combo to?

Maintain possession. Off site for more than 72 hrs is not maintaining possession.

Your choice , but you're enabling an Alcoholic who has now diminished your right to own firearms. Better to keep off site than run a risk, is bullshit.

[hurley842002]

I'm with Jim, this whole thing sounds absolutely ridiculous. If I knew I was planning on moving at some point anyway, I'd tell the room mate and the alcoholic, to pound sand. It's likely that since the girlfriend isn't even on the lease, the lease is being violated by her moving in (sorry if this was already mentioned, didn't read all posts). Is this poor decision maker really that important, you are willing to risk and or give up your personal freedoms?

[kidicarus13]

Great responses guys!

I was thinking of putting the majority of guns and ammo offsite. And keep one handgun around for protection. That way worse case I loose one gun and not everything else.

No, the worst case is you get charged and convicted of a felony and can't own any guns. If you are to get charged it won't matter if it's one gun or an "arsenal" of guns.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'm with Jim, this whole thing sounds absolutely ridiculous. If I knew I was planning on moving at some point anyway, I'd tell the room mate and the alcoholic, to pound sand. It's likely that since the girlfriend isn't even on the lease, the lease is being violated by her moving in (sorry if this was already mentioned, didn't read all posts). Is this poor decision maker really that important, you are willing to risk and or give up your personal freedoms?

Thank You


No, the worst case is you get charged and convicted of a felony and can't own any guns. If you are to get charged it won't matter if it's one gun or an "arsenal" of guns.

After all the debates we've had about compromise, sensible gun laws, The AG's taking away rights one law at a time, etc. The OP is more than willing to forfeit his rights, for as he puts it a "short time". If that's his stance so be it.
Clearly there's a lot the OP is failing or unwilling to discuss about the soon to be new tenant. It sounds like this new addition is more than a casual fall off the wagon drunk (is there any other kind) who is bringing a lot of drama and potential legal issues with her.


Whats that saying?

No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.

[ANADRILL]

Rent a storage building for a short time, and move the safe there. I would get a smaller safe for the pistol.

[nisils14]

So the DUI chick is going to move in. Regarding the wording of the sub-lease. WHY NOT make sure there is a fail safe to avoid a drama drawn scene, because she had ANOTHER relapse (oh i am sorry please give me a chance) smashed up the boyfriends room. Unless the 2 guys want to have local LE remove her (unlikely) What recourse do they / he have to get this time bomb off the premises ?

In regard to his firearms and other acc. IF as in an early post as the OP inquired. There is a need to remove said items. WHY THE HELL IS SHE EVEN ALLOWED TO LIVE THERE? I know the OP is looking for another place. Until then, why have that much more of an uncomfortable living scene than needed? Why put the OP's accessibility of personal protection out of reach, to prevent Ms DUI from getting them.
Curious, will there be access to alcohol in the dwelling? Not talking beer, wine, vodka. I'm talking mouth wash, furniture polish, cooking wines etc. Unless there is going to be a complete limit to anything harmful, the removal of guns, is meaningless.
Having dealt with ALCOHOLICS (which this woman is) one would be surprised what lengths they go to for a buzz.

This isn't so much about compromising as it is protecting one's personal interests and in this case, one's right. It doesn't have to be a firearm collection, even if it was anything I would hold of value, it's in my best interest to make sure it's safe. I'm not making way for a parolee, because that person is a parolee, I'm not going have any trust in them. My motivation is to keep myself out of harm's way, whether that be judicial and/or physical. Again it's in my best personal interest. Since this potentially involves law enforcement, why mix yourself up in roommate drama when as a 3rd person individual can be almost avoided in every circumstance. There's no point in concerning ones self in what happens to a relationship that they're not even part of. Especially since OP has notion to move out anyway, moving out will just be much simpler when you have less stuff to move. Again, that is just my mindset. I'm not making concessions, I'm not giving up my rights, I'm not compromising my personal beliefs. This simply is drama that could get potentially worse and if one doesn't need to get involved. I sure as hell would opt out faster than anything on this planet.

[Great-Kazoo]

This isn't so much about compromising as it is protecting one's personal interests and in this case, one's right.
Again, that is just my mindset. I'm not making concessions, I'm not giving up my rights, I'm not compromising my personal beliefs. This simply is drama that could get potentially worse and if one doesn't need to get involved. I sure as hell would opt out faster than anything on this planet.

Moving ones items off site, just in case, is compromising. The OP has a gun safe. He mentioned neither the room mate, or GF have an interest in the guns.
How much of a threat is this problem child, that he feels off site storage is best, OR necessary? Perhaps more attention should be paid to securing kitchen knives and other sharp instruments.

[rbeau30]

He mentioned neither the room mate, or GF have an interest in the guns.

Yet.... Things change when alcohol (or any other addictive drug) is involved or someone who wants it is trying to get it.


ipleadda2nd,

I don't know your situation, but I am leaning towards the "no good dead goes unpunished". That being said this is in no way putting down your buddy and his S.O..

There are just so many ways this can go bad for you and all you are doing is trying to help someone out. Don't forget that many issues get that "domestic" tag on it, and you don't want that. Something could be going as smoothly as you would expect it to be, and whamo, all of a sudden you are trying to break up a fight or something and someone says you did something and you didn't. Now you are hemmed up. I know how the system works, I have been through it and have had troops that have been through it.

[nisils14]

Moving ones items off site, just in case, is compromising. The OP has a gun safe. He mentioned neither the room mate, or GF have an interest in the guns.
How much of a threat is this problem child, that he feels off site storage is best, OR necessary? Perhaps more attention should be paid to securing kitchen knives and other sharp instruments.

I wouldn't think so, again I'm projecting my personal interest. Agree to disagree. That's the thing, the parolee is the variable, not him or his firearms. Why even make yourself a target to begin with? More attention should be paid to "How can I remove myself from this situation faster"

[Great-Kazoo]

I wouldn't think so, again I'm projecting my personal interest. Agree to disagree. That's the thing, the parolee is the variable, not him or his firearms. Why even make yourself a target to begin with? More attention should be paid to "How can I remove myself from this situation faster"

Perhaps he can get room mate to buy out his remaining lease.

[hurley842002]

That's s the thing, the parolee is the variable, not him or his firearms.

Parole vs. Probation is a big difference, I believe the roommate is on probation.

[nisils14]

Parole vs. Probation is a big difference, I believe the roommate is on probation.
I might've misunderstood parole vs. probation. Regardless its a crap situation, I think completely removing one's self from such situation is ideal. Just my .02

[Punkface]

Parole vs. Probation is a big difference, I believe the roommate is on probation.

Both probation and parole bar the person from having access to firearms so the discussion points are still valid.

Her probation officer may be ok with someone in the apartment having guns but probation officers (at least not in the county that I worked in) are not allowed to do house checks by themselves. If the other probation officer accompanying the visitation/search has a qualm with firearms on the premises it could have implications for the boyfriend and girlfriend.

This is just hypothetical though. I did know a lot of probation officers that were extremely against firearms in the house. One guy I worked with that supervised a juvenile on probation (stupid charge, kid shouldn't have gotten probation in the first place imo) strongly suggested that if the parents didn't sell or relocate their firearms the kid could possibly be placed out of home.

[hurley842002]

Both probation and parole bar the person from having access to firearms so the discussion points are still valid.


You are correct, but let's not turn the situation into something it's not, and it's not parole.

[clublights]

Probation does NOT necessarily remove your firearms rights.
Or Hers for that matter.


You need to get the paperwork and see.


In my youth I was on probation for traffic offenses ( lead foot ... ) Had a police contact ( we were messing around in a park late at night) had a pistols in the trunk.

Officer CHARGED me with felon in possession which was dropped the next day by the DA as I'm not a felon nor did my probation revoke my firearm rights,

This can lead to interesting times for me as it does show up on an FBI report as an arrest but not a conviction, when doing things like crossing the US/Canada border...

Anyways the pistols were returned to me .

This was in New Mexico.

Check the Paper/Terms of probation

[Martinjmpr]

Moving ones items off site, just in case, is compromising. The OP has a gun safe. He mentioned neither the room mate, or GF have an interest in the guns.
How much of a threat is this problem child, that he feels off site storage is best, OR necessary? Perhaps more attention should be paid to securing kitchen knives and other sharp instruments.

"Compromising" is exactly what he's doing and it's also the smart thing to do. This isn't about "rights" this is about a crappy situation and the OP is trying to keep it from getting crappier. Probably safe to assume that if the OP had the ability to live on his own without a roommate, he would (which means that the option of telling the roommate to FOAD is also off the table.) The roommate's GF is going to be there whether the OP wants her there or not. Saying "screw you, it's my right to keep a gun so I'm going to keep it" is great until OP comes home and finds out the GF has gotten ahold of his weapons and pawned them for drug/booze money, or shot herself or someone else.

Sure, from a legal standpoint he may be "right" but how much crap is he going to go through in the meantime? Seems to me that unless OP thinks he's going to need immediate access to a firearm at his home, removing them until he can get into a better living situation makes perfect sense.

Obviously the best option would be for the OP to not be in this situation, but he is and he has to make the best of it. We all make compromises, every one of us, every day.

[HBARleatherneck]

I havent read every post. BUT...

Inviting or allowing a woman with bad deicision making skills into your house is a recipe for disaster. Look at the drama its already causing you. It doesnt matter what the law is pertaining to you haveing firearms in the house. What matters is when the just out of the local academy hard charger comes to your house to take her away and finds guns. Somehow it will cost you time or money. Whats legal isnt always decided on the spot by the LEO.

[davsel]

Is she hot?

[Great-Kazoo]

Is she hot?

I was going to ask for a pic, but figured some one would get a sandy mangina, over it. Who knows maybe she's worth it. A few disaster chicks have that OH YEAH about them. There was this one ins. chick i knew.............................................. .......................

[Punkface]

Probation does NOT necessarily remove your firearms rights.
Or Hers for that matter.


You need to get the paperwork and see.

Check the Paper/Terms of probation

Most of the probation terms and conditions state the probationer is not allowed access to weapons during the span of probation. It won't get op in trouble but it could lead to a probation violation for the probationer which could possibly result in revocation of probation and placement/incarceration. It's unlikely but to the strict ones and the persons behavior on probation and past record, still a possibility.

Checking the paperwork is definitely a great idea but how likely would roommate let op see the probation contact? That might just stir up drama and that's exactly what op doesn't need.

[centrarchidae]

I couldn't drink enough to make this seem like a good idea. Between the hazy status of her probation (is she a prohibited person for federal purposes? That part could bite OP in the ass.), the "domestic violence" issue (defined far more broadly in federal law than state and also well able to come back to bite OP), and the fact that it's not exactly easy to get rid of her later (as in, the entire formal eviction tap dance once she establishes residence), there's just no upside to moving her in, and a whole lot of downside.

[Martinjmpr]

I couldn't drink enough to make this seem like a good idea. Between the hazy status of her probation (is she a prohibited person for federal purposes? That part could bite OP in the ass.), the "domestic violence" issue (defined far more broadly in federal law than state and also well able to come back to bite OP), and the fact that it's not exactly easy to get rid of her later (as in, the entire formal eviction tap dance once she establishes residence), there's just no upside to moving her in, and a whole lot of downside.

I got the impression from the OP's posts that the GF is moving in, whether OP wants her to or not.

Seems that if the OP had the ability to either
(a) tell the roommate that the GF cannot move in, no way, no how, and that if the roommate didn't like that, the roommate and his GF can both GTFO, or
(b) remove himself from the situation by finding his own place, he would have done so.
So OP's question is "what do I do now?"

[Punkface]

Look for another place, other roommates, and start the process of getting his stuff out of the apartment starting with the guns.

My $0.02

[roberth]

I appreciate that you are trying to help her.

But...

You will lose in the end. Your friend needs to tell her to go, leave, soonest. She is dynamite waiting to explode and take you and your friend with her.

If he won't let her go then you need to move out. She isn't worth the trouble she'll cause further down the road or tomorrow night, whichever comes first.

[ipleadda2nd]

There has been an update. She is now not getting out until the 16th. Something about work release and good behavior is allowing her to get out at that later date with less restrictions. There will be no routine or surprise searches. Her probation/parole officer/caseworker (or whatever) has said she can even posses and purchase guns if desired. This is great news.

However, she still is a time bomb. I found out her brother is suicidal (has been for a year). Eventually it will get to her. When it does it, we all know what she's going to do. It WILL end in a 911 call and her getting hauled off in an ambulance. It's happened before (before I knew her).

This is bullshit drama. I hate it. I have narrowed the cause down to my friend. He's responsible for this drama. I'm dropping him out of my life as soon as I can. There are people that attract this kind of thing and he's one of them. I have always prided myself on a no drama lifestyle. I can't believe I didn't pick up on this the 9 years I've known him. I guess I just wasn't as close to him as I am now. Trash, plain and simple.

[ipleadda2nd]

Yet.... Things change when alcohol (or any other addictive drug) is involved or someone who wants it is trying to get it.


ipleadda2nd,

I don't know your situation, but I am leaning towards the "no good dead goes unpunished". That being said this is in no way putting down your buddy and his S.O..

There are just so many ways this can go bad for you and all you are doing is trying to help someone out. Don't forget that many issues get that "domestic" tag on it, and you don't want that. Something could be going as smoothly as you would expect it to be, and whamo, all of a sudden you are trying to break up a fight or something and someone says you did something and you didn't. Now you are hemmed up. I know how the system works, I have been through it and have had troops that have been through it.

I have thought this, all too common, scenario out before. Thanks for mentioning it.

[ipleadda2nd]

Is she hot?

Actually a very good question. Hotness makes us men put up with more BS, and boy do they dish it out.

Objectively, yes. Through my perception, she looks used up. I think she's been blacked out and tossed around by unknown guys too many times. I'm not joking and not laughing.

[Great-Kazoo]

Actually a very good question. Hotness makes us men put up with more BS, and boy do they dish it out.

Objectively, yes. Through my perception, she looks used up. I think she's been blacked out and tossed around by unknown guys too many times. I'm not joking and not laughing.


My kind of girl. ;)

[ipleadda2nd]

My kind of girl. ;)

Now I'm laughing!

[Great-Kazoo]

Now I'm laughing!

You don't have to work as hard, or spend money.

Good to hear things are shifting course. I believe the friend should buy out your end of the lease.