View Full Version : Target asks customers to leave firearms at home
Target asks customers to leave firearms at home (http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20140702&id=17748339)
NEW YORK (AP) - Target is "respectfully" asking its customers to not bring firearms into its stores, even where it is allowed by law.
In a statement posted Wednesday on the retailer's corporate blog, interim CEO John Mulligan said that Target wants a "safe and inviting" atmosphere for its shoppers and employees.
"This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create," he said.
In many states, carrying unconcealed guns in public is legal.
Molly Snyder, a Target spokeswoman, said that Target's move is a "request and not a prohibition."
"We don't have any plans for proactive communication to guests beyond what Target leadership shared today," she added.
Target does not sell guns in its stores or on its website.
Target Corp. made the announcement as it faced pressure about its policy on the "open carry" of firearms in its stores. A group called Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America gathered nearly 400,000 signatures for a petition asking Target to prohibit shoppers from carrying guns into its stores.
The group has said it is responsible for getting several chains, including Chipotle, Starbucks and Jack in the Box, to to make similar moves. It introduced the campaign after gun rights groups carrying loaded rifles frequently gathered in Target stores including Texas, Alabama and North Carolina to demonstrate in support of "open carry" laws.
"Such positive safety changes made by some of our country's leading retailers are proof of the influence of women and mothers," said Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America. "As we look toward election season, we hope our legislators are taking notice that when women and mothers collectively raise our voices — and soon cast our votes, we are determined to leave an impact.
Aloha_Shooter
07-02-2014, 15:34
I don't shop there anyway. Any place frequented predominantly by elitists who want to give it a pseudo-French pronunciation is someplace I don't want to be.
kidicarus13
07-02-2014, 15:36
MDAGSA trying to create another 1683 target (pun intended) rich environments.
Haven't been in a Target for a couple years at least. Walmart suits me just fine.
Ah, you beat me to it!
This trend of "Respectfully requesting customers not to bring firearms" thing is getting really old now.
Okay, I will honor PUBLICLY TRADED company's PRIVATE property policy.
I have choices.
I have to waste 1-2minute(s) to unholster my firearm, and put it on a locked glove box compartment.
Or
I just go to other substitute stores which I do not need to waste my time messing with this.
As long as TGT is only store within 15-20mile radius, I would just go to competitor. Right now, retailers trying to earn every penny from consumers for next 2 quarters are critical for that specific sector.
I guess Target analysts and VP thought it was a good idea.
two shoes
07-02-2014, 15:45
You can't do your obligatory "Wally-Walk" with your freshly minted CHP in Target anyways...
Did they not get the memo?
46683
I respectfully request Target to kiss my ass.
If I went to Target, I'd just carry concealed.
68Charger
07-02-2014, 15:52
"we respectfully wish to disrespect your rights"
looking at the article, they don't really understand gun culture at all, and are trying to address open carry only...
Regardless, I will respectfully spend my money at your competition.
This list of places where we're not welcome just keeps getting longer. I'd say Bloomberg's money is working
edit
They are not adressing open carry only. They are flat out saying that guns are not family friendly and not welcome. No exceptions.
ChunkyMonkey
07-02-2014, 15:56
Well, I as the customer did ask them repeatedly not to lose my credit card information to the hackers.
68Charger
07-02-2014, 16:01
This list of places where we're not welcome just keeps getting longer. I'd say Bloomberg's money is working
again, by exploiting their lack of knowledge about concealed vs open carry, and by caving to pressure- I think it shows that methods used by carrying long guns into these establishments is not more effective than the "everytown for violating 2A rights" method. Change your tactics.
Well, I as the customer did ask them repeatedly not to lose my credit card information to the hackers.
Nice one... they're OBVIOUSLY very security conscious if they allowed a trojan to infect computers in their corporate network to compromise customer personal info.
Great-Kazoo
07-02-2014, 16:02
This list of places where we're not welcome just keeps getting longer. I'd say Bloomberg's money is working
edit
They are not adressing open carry only. They are flat out saying that guns are not family friendly and not welcome. No exceptions.
Open Carry Texas played a part in this. IMO open carrying a hand gun makes a statement, w/out shoving it in peoples faces like a long gun does. OCT does as much as bloombergs money, against us.
It's very frustrating that its ok for companies to ask you to ignore a constitutionally guaranteed right and it's applauded. Yet, a company wants to choose which benefits it offers and they get ripped apart. My oh my, what a fun path we're on.
The obvious answer to this is to shop somewhere else. Politely agree to not waste your money there and be done. However, that is not what the left does. If they hit a speed bump in their agenda, they don't change course, the go full steam ahead and run over anyone in their way.
Very frustrating indeed.
Great-Kazoo
07-02-2014, 16:10
It's very frustrating that its ok for companies to ask you to ignore a constitutionally guaranteed right and it's applauded. Yet, a company wants to choose which benefits it offers and they get ripped apart. My oh my, what a fun path we're on.
The obvious answer to this is to shop somewhere else. Politely agree to not waste your money there and be done. However, that is not what the left does. If they hit a speed bump in their agenda, they don't change course, the go full steam ahead and run over anyone in their way.
Very frustrating indeed.
Yes it is................WAY OT
The left is very selective in their outrage as you point out. Boulder clerk & recorder is issuing marriage lic to same sex couples, under the guise of it's ok even though it's being appealed. While the same group condemns the sheriffs, because they are not going to enforce the mag ban.
Open Carry Texas played a part in this. IMO open carrying a hand gun makes a statement, w/out shoving it in peoples faces like a long gun does. OCT does as much as bloombergs money, against us.
It makes me wonder if OCT is getting some of Bloomberg's money.
68Charger
07-02-2014, 16:23
Open Carry Texas played a part in this. IMO open carrying a hand gun makes a statement, w/out shoving it in peoples faces like a long gun does. OCT does as much as bloombergs money, against us.
your average soccer mom doesn't even notice a OC handgun unless it's pointed at them. Most people are clueless, and like it that way.
Whistler
07-02-2014, 16:48
Second Amendment supporters are not an insignificant market sector and have the potential to make our opinion more financially compelling to for-profit organizations. What they (we) lack is MDA's type of organization and commitment to the cause by their members despite internal bickering (as well as a certain moral/honest flexibility). Just one example might be the internal disagreement over Open Carry activist tactics that for some reason seems to excuse the fact that a public company just informed us our business was not welcome. If every 2A supporter would simply rise above the petty internal disagreements and come together to stop patronizing businesses that express the preference to cater to a special interest while excluding ours, I assure you the bottom line would quickly reflect the wisdom their "choice". I don't hold much hope most self-proclaimed supporters of gun rights will do much more than complain to one another however. Grass roots? Hell we can't even organize a BBQ...
Great-Kazoo
07-02-2014, 17:01
Second Amendment supporters are not an insignificant market sector and have the potential to make our opinion more financially compelling to for-profit organizations. What they (we) lack is MDA's type of organization and commitment to the cause by their members despite internal bickering (as well as a certain moral/honest flexibility). Just one example might be the internal disagreement over Open Carry activist tactics that for some reason seems to excuse the fact that a public company just informed us our business was not welcome. If every 2A supporter would simply rise above the petty internal disagreements and come together to stop patronizing businesses that express the preference to cater to a special interest while excluding ours, I assure you the bottom line would quickly reflect the wisdom their "choice". I don't hold much hope most self-proclaimed supporters of gun rights will do much more than complain to one another however. Grass roots? Hell we can't even organize a BBQ...
And this is why i miss you. The ride's a tad longer, how's the tamales down that a way?
Rooskibar03
07-02-2014, 18:33
When a target employee demanded to swipe my drivers license to purchase a package of bic lighters I left everything on the belt and walked out.
Now I have compelling reason to tell the Mrs not to shop there either.
Bailey Guns
07-02-2014, 18:35
What's a Target?
jhood001
07-02-2014, 18:42
I'm going to write them and respectfully ask that they give me 50% off my purchases.
I wonder if either of us are going to comply.
Probably not.
hurley842002
07-02-2014, 18:46
When a target employee demanded to swipe my drivers license to purchase a package of big lighters I left everything on the belt and walked out.
Now I have compelling reason to tell the Mrs not to shop there either.
Wow, that is just crazy!
Target, Chipotle, FedEx, and others ask customers for their money, but not to bring legally carried firearms into their businesses. That's cute.
Great-Kazoo
07-02-2014, 19:00
Wow, that is just crazy!
Voting with his feet.
GilpinGuy
07-02-2014, 19:04
I respectfully request Target to kiss my ass.
If I went to Target, I'd just carry concealed.
This. And it's what I do everywhere else too.
Whistler
07-02-2014, 19:29
And this is why i miss you. The ride's a tad longer, how's the tamales down that a way?
Hell I thought visiting you was a trek as it was! Haven't bought any yet, been making them from the leftover smoked pork butts. Been sort of afraid to after my experience with the BBQ joints in town, first time in my life I ever spit ribs in the garbage can. Some damn fine BBQ comes from Texas... not Athens, Texas unless you swing by my house! If you find yourself in East Texas (you know, when they switch your meds and such) stop by Jim, would be great to see you and I'll feed you right.
http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii532/ol-Whistler/Mobile%20Uploads/7ecdcb52-9a00-49c1-b701-ecd32f00d1ec.jpg
I cooked ^this^ a couple of weeks ago, that's just about all I can fit on the smoker at one time.
This list of places where we're not welcome just keeps getting longer. I'd say Bloomberg's money is working
It's not Bloomberg's money. It's fuckstick "activists"
http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/top-of-content-main/target-gun.jpg
I agree but they would not have gotten 400k signatures without some financial backing.
battle_sight_zero
07-02-2014, 19:48
This. And it's what I do everywhere else too.
Target is not asking CCW holders to not shop at their store. I feel Target sucks as store so I don't shop there. I also don't open carry in the Denver metro area either, to many panicky people that don't understand the laws. So no difference to me.
battle_sight_zero
07-02-2014, 19:50
It's not Bloomberg's money. It's fuckstick "activists"
http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/top-of-content-main/target-gun.jpg
Maybe he works for Bloomberg? I don't see a reason to bring an AR into target.
Maybe he works for Bloomberg? I don't see a reason to bring an AR into target.
I don't see a reason to bring an AR anywhere except home, the shop and the range. This isn't fucking Kandahar.
Rooskibar03
07-02-2014, 19:57
I don't see a reason to bring an AR anywhere except home, the shop and the range. This isn't fucking Kandahar.
That's FUDD talk right there.
That's FUDD talk right there.
No, FUDD talk is "you don't need that." I'm saying "you don't need that to buy groceries."
Just because you can does not mean it is a good idea.
Whistler
07-02-2014, 20:06
It's not Bloomberg's money. It's fuckstick "activists"
http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/top-of-content-main/target-gun.jpg
Yep that guy is personally responsible for 100+ years of gun control and single-handedly destroying the sterling image that has been so effective in preserving our rights. Why if they hadn't been so ignorant there'd be no reason at all for MDA! Or Bloomberg! Of course nothing like this ever happened before those guys and we'd be safe and snuggly with all our rights intact. C'mon Ridge...
Just because you can does not mean it is a good idea.
This.
Yep that guy is personally responsible for 100+ years of gun control and single-handedly destroying the sterling image that has been so effective in preserving our rights. Why if they hadn't been so ignorant there'd be no reason at all for MDA! Or Bloomberg! Of course nothing like this ever happened before those guys and we'd be safe and snuggly with all our rights intact. C'mon Ridge...
That guy is responsible for Target changing it's policy, which is the discussion of this thread. I'm sorry I didn't catch those brain waves of yours thinking about the overlying general status of our 2nd amendment right to hunt stuffed animals in a supermarket.
It would be interesting to know if there's any connection between the Chipotle event, the Target event, and various gun control groups. I realize it's Summer and hot weather can make people do things they might not ordinarily do, but getting a handful of guys to carry modern sporting rifles through a Target fails to compute.
One person would get attention. Three or more, together, is making a statement.
Aloha_Shooter
07-02-2014, 20:37
It's not Bloomberg's money. It's fuckstick "activists"
http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/top-of-content-main/target-gun.jpg
I really hate to say I agree with Ridge but ... [Bang] [hammer]
What is the problem with Texas lawmakers? Why dont they just approve Constitutional Carry and all these jokers with rifles will stop bringing in the long guns.
Whistler
07-02-2014, 20:44
[ROFL1]
No MDA was responsible for that as well as several other stores before the OC guys even started with their shenanigans. My "brain waves" were sending the message they are an insignificant skirmish in a long battle and not worth presenting such a major distraction to our cause or point of contention in our ranks. I promise you Target could give a crap about those guys, they are responding to what they perceive as a business decision based not on the actions of those guys but the complaints of MDA which would (and did) exist before those guys. Condemning them does nothing for us, fighting the real enemy (remember the folks trying to take your guns?) is what's important here.
Whistler
07-02-2014, 21:00
It would be interesting to know if there's any connection between the Chipotle event, the Target event, and various gun control groups. I realize it's Summer and hot weather can make people do things they might not ordinarily do, but getting a handful of guys to carry modern sporting rifles through a Target fails to compute.
One person would get attention. Three or more, together, is making a statement.
IMO it was an ill-conceived idea by some well intentioned but misguided folks and obligatory assorted ancillary nutbags/attention whores to "educate" and "desensitize" the public to OC and being around folks with guns where nothing (bad) happened, i.e.; it wasn't as scary as "they" would have you believe. The idea to OC long guns I think was two-fold (both bad ideas); as previously described and to illustrate the absurdity of Texas laws allowing OC of long guns but not handguns. It didn't work out and resulted in bad press, they stopped, the end.
wctriumph
07-02-2014, 21:04
I go to Target about three times a year and I always carry, concealed usually and no one has said a word on the two occassions I was open carry. I think Colorado persons are a little more tolerant than the assholes that inhabit other states.
TEA
III
rootbrain
07-02-2014, 21:08
Target is not asking CCW holders to not shop at their store. I feel Target sucks as store so I don't shop there. I also don't open carry in the Denver metro area either, to many panicky people that don't understand the laws. So no difference to me.
If you open carry in Denver, you'll lose your gun and go to the tank. Not legal in City and County of Denver, regardless of what people, panicky or otherwise do or don't understand.
rootbrain
07-02-2014, 21:09
Just because you can does not mean it is a good idea.
This. [emoji106]
Imagine, just for a second, that you are involved on the management side of a large chain of department stores and these three fine young gentleman decide to parade through your store in their attempt to desensitize the masses to firearms:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/txopc_zps7a705ca6.jpeg
hurley842002
07-02-2014, 21:44
Imagine, just for a second, that you are involved on the management side of a large chain of department stores and these three fine young gentleman decide to parade through your store in their attempt to desensitize the masses to firearms:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/txopc_zps7a705ca6.jpeg
This...
American flag
Mosin Nagant rifle
Yeah, but's he not running around yelling 'MURICA while toting an 80 year old Soviet rifle over his shoulder.
jhood001
07-02-2014, 22:08
Why doesn't law enforcement carry their long guns into department stores?
I've seen plenty entering stores. Whether they're grabbing something on their way home or they're responding to a shop-lifting call.
Never seen it, but I can't for the life of me figure out why.
I mean beyond the reason that there is absolutely no fucking point in doing it unless a known threat level exists. And the funny thing is that they could do it and nobody could stop them... but they don't.
If anyone can figure this out for me, let me know. And if any of you would like to use 'awareness' or 'desensitizing the masses' as a REAL argument... Well, I hope a 6 hour long gay pride parade chooses the road you live on for their next march.
If I saw any of the characters pictured in this thread doing what they were doing, I would be slowly making my way towards an exit.
[ROFL1]
No MDA was responsible for that as well as several other stores before the OC guys even started with their shenanigans. My "brain waves" were sending the message they are an insignificant skirmish in a long battle and not worth presenting such a major distraction to our cause or point of contention in our ranks. I promise you Target could give a crap about those guys, they are responding to what they perceive as a business decision based not on the actions of those guys but the complaints of MDA which would (and did) exist before those guys. Condemning them does nothing for us, fighting the real enemy (remember the folks trying to take your guns?) is what's important here.
Bullseye.
boomerhc9
07-02-2014, 22:29
Now don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say, but I think this may partially be just a little image problem. Just a little. Would people react the same way if those young men were clean shaven, well groomed, and juuust a little better dressed?
Like i said, I'm very guilty about this. I am the worst dresser out there, can't accesorize clothing, and dress for comfort, not to impress.
It does not help that i'm color blind to a couple of colors. However, i am most comfortable in a t-shirt, camo shorts, and either sandals, or ankle socks and sketchers shoes.
Maybe to send the right message, we should iron our pants, and put on a button up shirt.
Now don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say, but I think this may partially be just a little image problem. Just a little. Would people react the same way if those young men were clean shaven, well groomed, and juuust a little better dressed?
A bunch of guys showing up in suits and sporting rifles would leave just as much if not more concerned for my safety.
http://i.imgur.com/jj1zQevh.jpg
boomerhc9
07-02-2014, 22:40
P.s., if someone has a problem with my fashion faux pax-rific fashion sense, they can take my clothes from my cold dead scrawny, bony pasty dead body. I already look like a walking skeleton, so it will be tough for them to know when to start stripping me down. Lol
Whistler made the point that many of us in Colorado don't really get. In Texas, the only firearms permitted to be openly carried are long guns. Legally, a citizen may carry an AK or a Mosin but may not legally open carry a handgun. I understand the point of the open carry demonstrations in Texas were to point out the absurdity of the current open carry laws in Texas.
This obviously is not the case today in Colorado and for people in Colorado who support legal possession of firearms, I would think there would be more understanding of the statement they are trying to make. I will not criticize those citizens in Texas who chose to make that point in Texas.
I don't believe any progressive, anti-gun people in this country care what any of us say or do. They will use anything, say anything, do almost anything to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens who support the possession and bearing of firearms.
I support Constitutional Carry nationally. I would like to see the same position as Wyoming on owning and carrying of firearms in every state in the nation.
Be safe.
boomerhc9
07-02-2014, 22:48
A bunch of guys showing up in suits and sporting rifles would leave just as much if not more concerned for my safety.
http://i.imgur.com/jj1zQevh.jpg
This! 100 % also!
I think a sudden boom in aAssad agents would make me nervous too.
Just a button up shirt and some khakis, would likely do the trick. Unless you are ridge, then just a button up shirt and some corduroy jeans.[ROFL1]
boomerhc9
07-02-2014, 22:54
On second thought, ridge, skip the corduroy: http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/fox/napoleandynamite/NP5_L.jpg
[ROFL3]
Imagine you have zero contact with guns in your life. You see one of the three people walk into a store with a long gun. Are you eyes going to fall on the large hole in that America flag shirt, or the muzzle of the rifle? Suggesting that they dress better is like saying that a bank robber would get more cooperation from bank patrons if he first complimented their hair before jamming his pistol in their face and screaming at them to get on the floor.
A bunch of guys showing up in suits and sporting rifles would leave just as much if not more concerned for my safety.
Ridge, are you afraid of guns in general, only guns that you don't personally own, or only guns that you can see in the open? Is it the format of the firearm in your presence that bothers you?
Ridge, are you afraid of guns in general, only guns that you don't personally own, or only guns that you can see in the open? Is it the format of the firearm in your presence that bothers you?
Gman, are you so insecure in yourself that you have to make personal attacks against other people who don't share the exact same philosophies as yourself?
They're serious questions. You seem to be judging based on appearances. If those open carrying were wearing MLP garb, would you feel differently about them? If they were wearing the same shooting club T-shirt as you, would you be less concerned?
If you were in a room with 20 other people and you heard that someone was carrying concealed, would your reaction be to leave?
I just don't understand why we expect to have 2A rights, but we distrust others so easily.
They're serious questions. You seem to be judging based on appearances. If those open carrying were wearing MLP garb, would you feel differently about them? If they were wearing the same shooting club T-shirt as you, would you be less concerned?
If you were in a room with 20 other people and you heard that someone was carrying concealed, would your reaction be to leave?
You weren't talking to me, but I'm very selective on who I shoot with. There are people in my family that I don't want to shoot with, even after being asked. I make those decisions based on my knowledge of their decision making skills. When it comes to strangers, I am automatically weary of them in general, even more with guns. When someone is open carrying a rifle some where just for the shit of it, they might as well have kicked the door open and yelled, "I regularly make poor decisions!" while holding the rifle over their head.
So you're saying it's the format of the arm that's the issue for you.
The OC activists have changed their tactics, but we seem to cling to past examples.
MDAGSA could care less. They'll divide and conquer until you'll be clinging to your 'freedoms' in your darkened basement.
The more I think about it, yes it is the format. Similar to how anti-abortion activists are only going to piss me off by showing up at my kid's school with giant posters of bloody aborted fetuses.
Similarly, many people seem to quietly agree that it is stupid to have the drinking age be 21, when you can be enlisted at 18. How well do you think the campaign to change that law would go if 18-20 year-old soldiers started organizing to drink at retail stores across the nation? You know, just to desensitize the public and make them aware that 18-20 year-olds can be safely consume alcohol.
rustycrusty
07-03-2014, 04:27
Image is everything to a crowd and these guys were not dressed for success.
I'm going to be a jerk here and say it... These guys all look like shit. I wouldn't stand behind anything they were trying to represent.
If you are gong out to make some statement at least pick something better than those outfits...
long white socks and shorts... AND a ponytail sporting oversized washed out t-shirt!? oh my...
these guys all look like the high school rejects who used to loiter at the mall... walking back and forth between the arcade and Hot Topic...
this is might have played out differently if these guys were the authoritative, muscular, collar wearing type instead of the awkward skinny or overweight 10yr old hand-me-down camo shorts type...
also- the rifles sloppily carried like man-purses...
this is all seems like a Dem plant to me...
either way- it's all a little over the top.
hghclsswhitetrsh
07-03-2014, 05:09
Gman, are you so insecure in yourself that you have to make personal attacks against other people who don't share the exact same philosophies as yourself?
Pot meet kettle.
Whistler made the point that many of us in Colorado don't really get. In Texas, the only firearms permitted to be openly carried are long guns. Legally, a citizen may carry an AK or a Mosin but may not legally open carry a handgun. I understand the point of the open carry demonstrations in Texas were to point out the absurdity of the current open carry laws in Texas.
That's how I understand what they goal was as well. As I've said elsewhere, If you want to hold a political demonstration choose a street, a park or better yet the steps of the capitol. Unless the business is specifically involved with that issue don't drag em into it.
Note in the picture the guy with the flag also has a handgun.
Second Amendment supporters are not an insignificant market sector and have the potential to make our opinion more financially compelling to for-profit organizations. What they (we) lack is MDA's type of organization and commitment to the cause by their members despite internal bickering (as well as a certain moral/honest flexibility). Just one example might be the internal disagreement over Open Carry activist tactics that for some reason seems to excuse the fact that a public company just informed us our business was not welcome. If every 2A supporter would simply rise above the petty internal disagreements and come together to stop patronizing businesses that express the preference to cater to a special interest while excluding ours, I assure you the bottom line would quickly reflect the wisdom their "choice". I don't hold much hope most self-proclaimed supporters of gun rights will do much more than complain to one another however. Grass roots? Hell we can't even organize a BBQ...
Simply taking your business elsewhere is not enough. An organized letter writing campaign is also needed. A simple drop in sales is just that to the corporate heads, could be caused by anything. A drop in sales in conjunction with hundreds of thousands of letters including shopping receipts of your purchases made at Target competitors rather than Target makes a statement.
Simple boycotts are a waste of time without the dual cause and effect corellation.
sent from a soup can and some string..
kawiracer14
07-03-2014, 08:31
We just need to open carry more around here so we can desensitize the masses.
Just kidding. These Open Carry Texas guys are a bunch of basement dwelling rejects. It's abundantly clear that they have no helped their cause at all, and are in fact hurting it. Regardless of your thoughts on Open Carry this is a pretty undeniable fact.
I'll still shop at target because the soccer moms are super hot and its 6 blocks from my house. I will also still carry concealed when I go there, just like I do when I go to starbucks.
Rucker61
07-03-2014, 08:35
You weren't talking to me, but I'm very selective on who I shoot with. There are people in my family that I don't want to shoot with, even after being asked. I make those decisions based on my knowledge of their decision making skills. When it comes to strangers, I am automatically weary of them in general, even more with guns. When someone is open carrying a rifle some where just for the shit of it, they might as well have kicked the door open and yelled, "I regularly make poor decisions!" while holding the rifle over their head.
I'm with you on this, but I would like to have a t-shirt with "I regularly make poor decisions".
A simple form letter to Target corporate after each of your shopping trips else where could look something like this:
Dear Mr. Mulligan
This past week I spent $XXX.XX at (insert store name here) purchasing (insert goods here). I made the decision to shop at a location other than Target stores due to the corporate decision to deny my constitutional right to carry a firearm. According to the Texas Department of Public Safety legal concealed carry holders commit crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general public meaning that legal carriers of firearms are also a safer and more law abiding group of people than the general public, crime reports of concealed carry holders vs. the general public can be seen here: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm
Based on this information, if you had two stores side by side, one being Target which requests that firearms not be allowed in their stores and one being (insert store you recently shopped at here) which has no policy on firearms, (insert store you recently shopped at here) would be the safer and more family friendly store to enter and to spend your money at.
Please see my attached shopping receipt of the goods I purchased elsewhere in a safer shopping environment.
Respectfully,
(your name here)
In Texas, the only firearms permitted to be openly carried are long guns. Legally, a citizen may carry an AK or a Mosin but may not legally open carry a handgun. I understand the point of the open carry demonstrations in Texas were to point out the absurdity of the current open carry laws in Texas.
And they will quite likely end up with the same result that the open-carry-california crowd achieved: no more open carry.
Had the open carry proponents in CA individually gone about their daily lives with a pistol on their hip, they'd probably have been fine. But no, they had to amass in groups of 20-40 OC people at a time on small businesses to make a statement. It worked.
Had the open carry TX people not felt the need to go in groups maybe it'd not have hit the national media they way it has.
Open carry is legal in CO (well, in much of it), if anyone here wants to see that taken away, just get a bunch of guys together and start going to retail locations en masse, y'all can get your 15 minutes of fame too. The same people that took away 30rd mags and FTF sales would be happy to take OC away.
Open carry seems to have a lot in common with riding a Jetski: neither activity seems possible without an audience.
The same people that took away 30rd mags and FTF sales would be happy to take OC away.
Open Carry does not fuel the fight being waged by people who want to take guns and magazines away. This is not a logical argument to them, it is part of an ideological argument that progressives are making about the fundamental nature of our Constitution.
IMO, the position many are taking toward the Texas Open Carry demonstrators comes too close to blaming the behavior and dress of rape victims for the crime of rape.
If clowns scare children, no clown should be allowed in public. If clowns can't police themselves by keeping hidden, the State must pass a law prohibiting the wearing of red noses and big shoes. Public places and retail establishments should prohibit the presence of clowns or openly displaying clown regalia. We want people, especially children to feel safe.
This is an absurd example because being a clown is a personal expression. The First Amendment protects our freedom of expression. I do not want to criticize other clowns because their presence in public possibly provides evidence to clown haters who are bent on eliminating all clowns.
THEY are coming for all of us clowns; The scary ones, the sad ones, the silly ones. THEY will not be satisfied until all clowns are illegal, gone or in hiding. Don't blame the way a few clowns look for what THEY want to do to all of us.
Be safe.
This situation seems to be:
Someone walked into a business and upset the other people shopping there. The business proceeded to politely say,"Don't to that."
Was the upset intentional or not, we could argue that forever and I have my opinion. All that really matters is people were upset.
Was the request of the business beyond what was necessary? We could argue that as well, I think it was. At least they are not actually posting the stores, it could have been worse.
The business has no obligation to allow you to speak your mind. You want to hold a demonstration, close a street and get 50+ people with banners (and rifles) saying "This rifle is heavy, let me carry a handgun." That gets your point across clearly.
Whistler
07-03-2014, 11:35
Simply taking your business elsewhere is not enough. An organized letter writing campaign is also needed. A simple drop in sales is just that to the corporate heads, could be caused by anything. A drop in sales in conjunction with hundreds of thousands of letters including shopping receipts of your purchases made at Target competitors rather than Target makes a statement.
Simple boycotts are a waste of time without the dual cause and effect corellation.
sent from a soup can and some string..
Don't disagree def, we should be at least as noisy as our opponents but as evidenced by this thread there isn't even consensus here, just a dog pile on some guys legally exercising their rights in a way they happen to disagree with and that the anti-gunners used for bad press (because they had absolutely nothing else before). The negative press is blown completely out of proportion by MDA and an anti-gun media to force an agenda and what do our guys do? Buy into the hysteria, join in crucifying the guys and keep shopping at Target "because the soccer moms are hot". That level of organization is not going to take us far.
Whether you like their actions or not or care for their appearance or think they have single-handedly set gun rights back 100 years it doesn't matter - they were legally exercising a right. The guys here tearing them down aren't going to organize, they can't even grasp how rights work apparently - you don't get to decide how someone else exercises their right within legal boundaries and contrary to popular belief your impression of how "stupid" it was is completely irrelevant.
I see a lot of "letters" on here folks [say they] send to their reps I completely disagree with, I see folks on here advocating actions I don't agree with, I certainly disagree with a "dress code" for OC. The difference is I respect their right because... well it's a right! "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" as applied to a right ranks right up there with "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" in my estimation. What the hell is the point of having a right if you're afraid to exercise it for fear of it being taken away? I call it a delusion.
You can disagree with their tactics, dress or the way they wear their hair and that's fine but why let it stop us from pursuing the larger goal and simply letting MDA pressure business after business into creating policy they want? Is it because you covertly agree those guys [legally] exercising their rights in that manner should be restricted? I already know the answer, I've seen it expressed on this very board.
What's missing is the OC guys did not create MDA, they did not create the mindset I see reflected here that guys OC-ing in Chili's or Starbucks are "scary" or "inappropriate", MDA did that and you ate it with a spoon. That is the hardest thing about freedom, letting the other guy have his.
"You" in this context is ubiquitous and doesn't refer to def90 or anyone specifically but collectively.
Whistler
07-03-2014, 11:37
Open Carry does not fuel the fight being waged by people who want to take guns and magazines away. This is not a logical argument to them, it is part of an ideological argument that progressives are making about the fundamental nature of our Constitution.
IMO, the position many are taking toward the Texas Open Carry demonstrators comes too close to blaming the behavior and dress of rape victims for the crime of rape.
If clowns scare children, no clown should be allowed in public. If clowns can't police themselves by keeping hidden, the State must pass a law prohibiting the wearing of red noses and big shoes. Public places and retail establishments should prohibit the presence of clowns or openly displaying clown regalia. We want people, especially children to feel safe.
This is an absurd example because being a clown is a personal expression. The First Amendment protects our freedom of expression. I do not want to criticize other clowns because their presence in public possibly provides evidence to clown haters who are bent on eliminating all clowns.
THEY are coming for all of us clowns; The scary ones, the sad ones, the silly ones. THEY will not be satisfied until all clowns are illegal, gone or in hiding. Don't blame the way a few clowns look for what THEY want to do to all of us.
Be safe.
+1 Nice metaphor
THEY are coming for all of us clowns; The scary ones, the sad ones, the silly ones. THEY will not be satisfied until all clowns are illegal, gone or in hiding. Don't blame the way a few clowns look for what THEY want to do to all of us.
Be safe.
Yup, easiest way is to come for us is to divide us. Create division within. Then go after the group that even pro-2a people don't like. Then, the crowd shrinks even more. Look at any other activist group. My first example would be the bakery incident. One could argue that the patrons were just stirring up a fight by asking that baker to do something he wasn't comfortable with. They had plenty of other bakeries that would gladly make their cake. Did others in the GLBT movement chastise those patrons and tell them to stop being jerks? Nope, they rallied behind them and swung an even heavier stick.
Why are we so quick to go to the "Just conceal it" idea? Imagine if someone suggested that to a gay person. What would happen? Open carrying isn't for me but I doubt that every gay person opts for the "loud and proud" lifestyle either yet they all stay cohesive and support each other because they see the bigger picture. The problem 2A people run into is the media is not on our side. They spew terrible information/stats that get the idle bystander on their side. Then, when stores come out and do this and 2a people AGREE with Target, that makes it even worse for us. It just fuels the "well see, common sense regulation IS ok".
I only use the gay references as it is a current hot topic for politics too. It's not meant as a gay bash or anything. Just an example of how the left operates versus the right.
Whistler
07-03-2014, 11:43
This situation seems to be:
Someone walked into a business and upset the anti-gunners not even in the vicinity who created a media frenzy and terror campaign against the business. The business proceeded to politely say,"Don't to that."
FIFY
FIFY
You don't need to be an anti to be unsettled by people carrying long arms around in an area that does not warrant that level of protection. Just like you can be concerned by someone walking around in there in a hazmat suit with a geiger counter in their hand.
FIFY
The statement was issued because of the moms against guns campaign but that campaign would not have happened if everyone has been just fine with the initial actions.
Whistler, If I'm ever in the neighborhood of Athens or you're in this neck of the woods, the libation of your choice is on me. There's a lot of wisdom in your words.
I thought it funny when Dave_L was comparing 2A to LGBT. I guess we need those that exercise their 2A rights to be a little less flamboyant about it. [ROFL1]
Zundfolge
07-03-2014, 13:47
Like with Chipotle, I hate to be put in the position to defend these people but frankly Bloomie's Mom's group is an obnoxious pressure group. They had to do something to placate these idiots or they'd have ratcheted up the pressure until finally it started hurting their bottom line so they came out with a half ass capitulation to them that would allow them to get the Mom's to go away and keep the gun rights folks from coming down on them too.
So they ask their customers not to bring guns in their stores ... with no requirement, no demand, just a request.
They're forced into this position between a rock and a hard place and there is no good position to take that allows them to stay out of the controversy.
So that said, screw them for not taking our side in full throated support of the Second Amendment, I'll not set foot in one of their stores again! (which would be same net result if none of this would have happened :p )
Whistler
07-03-2014, 14:01
Merl, Ridge - my point is the patrons didn't complain except in one case I saw reported, it was the anti-gunners complaining on their behalf and in many cases without their consent or participation.
Ridge that statement reminds me of the folks who promote mandatory training and/or competency testing because they "fear" Billy Bob could pose a danger to them since he's an ignorant, toothless, poorly dressed hillbilly. "Guns for me but not for thee" or something like that. Who are you to tell anyone what level of protection is warranted in any given situation and why would they care what your thoughts are on how they exercise their right? I don't think you have to an anti to be unsettled around guys just walking with guns but based on the behavior I saw I'd say you do have to be a little paranoid. I was the guy in the canary suit with the Geiger counter and there was no cause for alarm, just checking for tritium... didn't find any.
Merl are you trying to convince me Mothers Demand Action for Gun sense in America was formed in response to the Open Carry Texas demonstrations? In fact MDA predates OCT by roughly two years and was formed in response to the Sandy Hook tragedy. The anti-gunners have been campaigning since long before most of these other groups existed and certainly before they engaged in what you perceive as nail in the coffin behavior.
Guys I'm not a'gin ya' but I'm thinking maybe it's more of a personal thing in that you just don't like folks with guns around you... except for you and the people you trust of course.
You're paranoid as hell and I wouldn't trust you with a gun if you felt the need to carry an AR or the like to a goddamned grocery store in the suburbs. Carry a handgun, fine. But this isn't Tikrit, you don't need to worry about being overrun by opfor while shopping for socks.
Whistler
07-03-2014, 14:18
You are correct, I am paranoid as hell and can't remember the last time I carried a long gun anywhere other than hunting or the range but will you finally at least acknowledge it's nothing more than your personal bias?
What if Billy Bob is just really, really bad with handguns and feels safer with an AK? Or a flame thrower? I know I would [flamethrower]
What if you're an adult, but not legally able to carry a handgun because you're not 21? You're basically saying their choice if you have anything to say about it is that they have no right to self-defense.
Those of us that choose to defend ourselves with arms are to me more of a brotherhood than me and mine vs. the world. I don't want others judging me or second guessing my legitimate right, so why would I feel so empowered to do that to someone else who is lawfully living their life?
Ridge, I totally don't get how you don't want to be judged but will be so quick to drop the gavel on others.
It makes me chuckle that we're debating what's necessary versus excessive. This is America. The land of super sized fries, 80 ounce soft drinks, cars with 1000+hp, trucks lifted to the moon with tires the size of a prius, and pretty much everything else that you can over indulge on.
Merl, Ridge - my point is the patrons didn't complain except in one case I saw reported, it was the anti-gunners complaining on their behalf and in many cases without their consent or participation.
There is a post earlier up about letting business know about out boycotts. Most don't complain, they just don't go back. There is no positive spin on this outside some gun sites, the businesses cannot think this was a positive thing for them even if they get no immediate complaints.
Merl are you trying to convince me Mothers Demand Action for Gun sense in America was formed in response to the Open Carry Texas demonstrations? In fact MDA predates OCT by roughly two years and was formed in response to the Sandy Hook tragedy. The anti-gunners have been campaigning since long before most of these other groups existed and certainly before they engaged in what you perceive as nail in the coffin behavior.
Oh no, they smelled blood in the water and acted. They are getting their free publicity and winning because of the actions of OCT. This is not helping gun rights in any way.
Ridge, I totally don't get how you don't want to be judged but will be so quick to drop the gavel on others.
What the hell are you talking about? People on this forum like yourself judge me all the time, and I just let it roll off my back because I understand everybody has their own opinion.
It makes me chuckle that we're debating what's necessary versus excessive. This is America. The land of super sized fries, 80 ounce soft drinks, cars with 1000+hp, trucks lifted to the moon with tires the size of a prius, and pretty much everything else that you can over indulge on.
Super size...not in NY because it is for your own good that we regulate your soda intake.
Whistler
07-03-2014, 15:39
There is a post earlier up about letting business know about out boycotts. Most don't complain, they just don't go back. There is no positive spin on this outside some gun sites, the businesses cannot think this was a positive thing for them even if they get no immediate complaints.
Oh no, they smelled blood in the water and acted. They are getting their free publicity and winning because of the actions of OCT. This is not helping gun rights in any way.
<Sarcasm warning>
Okay merl I concede the actions of OCT have completely negated all the incredible headway in preserving our rights we'd made until now and luckily MDA was around to deliver the kill shot. OCT is probably even responsible for the mag bans in Colorado AND the "assault weapons" ban in CT but definitely the "bullet button" in CA! They are now the "new" enemy for legally exercising their right against your wishes, prompting bad press and for being stupid. Oh and poor dressers. MDA is blameless, simply exercising "common sense" by creating hysteria around a [legal] non-event and bullying businesses into enacting policy to force their beliefs on everyone irrespective of the law. Of course Target had no choice because they didn't receive any immediate complaints from the people actually there but surely they think it's bad because you do. Dang I keep forgetting OCT is also the only gun rights organization in history to ever have their actions/statements result in bad press or provide fodder to the gun grabbers. <end sarcasm >
No I don't think it helps gun rights merl but I think I'll go have some beers instead. [Beer]
I'm with you on this, but I would like to have a t-shirt with "I regularly make poor decisions".
That would definitely be my drinking shirt.
osok-308
07-03-2014, 17:36
I respectfully request Target to kiss my ass.
If I went to Target, I'd just carry concealed.
+1. Carrying concealed is preferable (for me) anyways. But I do not like Target anyways.
BREATHER
07-04-2014, 08:06
This is kind of mote point... I do not open carry in public/city/town because I do not want asshats to know I am carrying. I do not subscribe to "if they see my gun no crime will be committed"... I for one do not want to fight some shithead who is bigger and badder than I am over my piece....
Kinda ironic that a store named "Target" is anti-gun.
Kinda ironic that a store named "Target" is anti-gun.
Yeah, such a lost opportunity. If they ever decide to go further into making their stores 'gun free zones', the name will be very fitting.
wctriumph
07-04-2014, 10:20
Well, a bunch of poorly dressed young men with a variety of legally carried long guns walks into a Target store in Texas and it generated 400,000+ signatures on a petition sent to Target's HQ. Where were these signatures gathered from? In front of a Target store in Texas? I don't think so. Bloomberg is pulling out all the stops in his well organized plan to subjugate the Free People of America. Obviously being really, really rich does not bring true enlightenment, only a feeling that the rich are our betters and know that they should make our decisions for us.
TEA
III
trlcavscout
07-04-2014, 18:16
They would never know if I was carrying, but target is the last place I would want to go.
http://xkcd.com/1357/
As they say, there's an xkcd for everything.
Well, Bloomberg officially considers the Target situation a "Victory" -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/ScreenShot2014-07-04at92010PM_zps3bdfb38e.png
spqrzilla
07-05-2014, 01:48
Bloomberg is all about the lying.
Bloomberg is all about the lying.
On the PR front it was a victory, don't kid yourself. The moms against guns group has now actually done something, before this all they had done is made noise.
muddywings
07-10-2014, 07:34
Interdasting....
http://www.inquisitr.com/1343779/targets-gun-ban-proves-to-be-absolute-rubbish-as-assailants-attack-stores-customers/
Target’s Gun Ban Has Unexpected Results As Assailants Attack Store’s Unarmed Customers
Three days ago, Target enacted a new policy in which they asked customers to politely leave their guns at home or not bring them on the premises of any Target store. This was probably decided after a loaded gun (http://www.inquisitr.com/1284514/target-comes-under-fire-after-loaded-gun-is-found-abandoned-in-toy-aisle/) was found in the toy aisle of one of their stores as reported here on The Inquisitr.
Unfortunately, their gun ban policy is proving to be problematic as numerous reports are coming in about Target’s customers getting robbed at gunpoint.
According to reports, including one in the Gainesville Times (http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/section/6/article/101754/), Target shoppers at two different stores in Georgia have been robbed by armed assailants since the discount retailer announced the policy on July 2, 2014.
Perhaps as a reaction to the robberies, Target spokeswoman Molly Snyder said that there was no ban on guns, and it was just a “request” that the company hoped customers would honor. She said there would be no signs banning guns nor would customers with a gun be asked to leave.
Unfortunately, similar incidents have taken place at other Target stores. This includes a woman having her purse and car stolen by an armed assailant at a Target in Atlanta, and a man who was robbed of $500 at gunpoint at a Target on Shallowford Road, which is about 50 miles northeast of Atlanta.
It is possible Target didn’t understand that many gun-related crimes occur in gun-free zones, and their statement, though technically not banning guns, may have been enough to give the perception that their stores are easy pickings for would be criminals.
Jerry Henry, executive director for the website GeorgiaCarry.org (http://www.georgiacarry.org/), had this to say about Target:
“That’s what happens in gun-free zones. They actually should be called victim-enrichment zones because that what they are. If anyone want to commit a crime with impunity, take your gun where there are no guns. You can do what you want, get in and get out and there’s nobody to stop you.”
Prior to the incidents, the policy was getting both positive and negative feedback, especially on the Denver Post (http://blogs.denverpost.com/eletters/2014/07/09/targets-gun-ban-means-little/31972/). What is unknown right now is if reports of Target customers being robbed at gunpoint will make the store reword or rethink their policy.
Great-Kazoo
07-10-2014, 08:36
On the PR front it was a victory, don't kid yourself. The moms against guns group has now actually done something, before this all they had done is made noise.
They still make noise, just better funded noise. MDA, everytown and other b funded anti groups are the Tokyo Rose of society. Keep at it long enough to sway the masses.
Sounds like Target didn't understand the difference between lawless bad guys with guns and law abiding good guys with guns. Here ends the lesson.
Because Target caved-in to the Bloomberg asshats, they can rest assured that me, my gun, and my money will be shopping elsewhere.
Sent from my electronic leash.
Sounds like Target didn't understand the difference between lawless bad guys with guns and law abiding good guys with guns. Here ends the lesson.
Because Target caved-in to the Bloomberg asshats, they can rest assured that me, my gun, and my money will be shopping elsewhere.
Sent from my electronic leash.
Yep...me too.
I just will not spend my money there anymore. I hope they lose a lot of business cause of this.
Aloha_Shooter
07-11-2014, 20:45
My e-mail to Target corporate management:
I find it ironic that a company with a name and symbol like yours, one that claims to support veterans and troops, has fallen in with the extremist anti-gun zealots of Michael Bloomberg's front organizations with your recent "ban" of personally owned firearms.
While I recognize some people have had stupid counter-productive displays, your ban-that's-not-a-ban was the wrong way to handle things and I find it as offensive as all of Bloomberg's assaults on our Constitutional rights.
My shopping henceforth will go to stores like Wal-Mart that don't undermine my Constitutional rights or react to the irrational fears, distortions, and outright lies spread by organizations like the ironically named Mayors Against Illegal Guns or Everytown for Gun Safety.
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