belt fed receiver reweld question

[tmckay2]

so i am looking at getting into the belt fed game since i already have some belts and cans. a pkm seems the most likely, but i have a question on the receivers. if i don't get a new one and instead have a demilled one welded, it would likely still be full auto. that being the case, i can obviously have a piece of metal stuck in there to keep it semi however would it be possible to send in to the atf to get it approved and then have a full auto? i am guessing there is more to it than that, but can't find a clear answer.

second, anyone ever seen a welded receiver that came out looking good?

[BPTactical]

You are stepping into a spooky spot IMHO.
To the best of my knowledge, once a machine gun, always a machine gun. Even if it is rewelded.
There is a difference between a "parts kit" and a "demil" or more accurately a "dewat".
In the eyes of the alphabet crew a parts kit may be stripped of the receiver and built on a new receiver providing it does not violate any regulations and meets 922r compliance.
A dewat is an entirely different matter, it is in legal terms a de-activated MG and ANY alteration is in violation.
Remember the above line, once a MG, ALWAYS a MG.
As far as submitting one for approval, ain't gonna happen. Since 86 by Ronnie Reagans pen, no new MG's manufactured for civilian ownership.

[gta_spec]

If i had the coin for a pkm parts kit ($4k?) , i wouldnt mind spending the extra $1k for a vltor semi reciever. Not to mention the gray area that Burt detailed above.

[tmckay2]

I don't mind doing it, I just want to be sure the possible options before taking that sort of a plunge. would kind of suck to drop the coin only to find out later you could have done it cheaper or better. hence the questions. the vltor receivers are expensive enough that I wanted to be sure that was the only real, viable option.

[Great-Kazoo]

I don't mind doing it, I just want to be sure the possible options before taking that sort of a plunge. would kind of suck to drop the coin only to find out later you could have done it cheaper or better. hence the questions. the vltor receivers are expensive enough that I wanted to be sure that was the only real, viable option.

Cheaper for the receiver than attorney. To date, after browsing the web, and previous times (the M-14 rewelds years back) as Bert said Once a MG ALWAYS a MG. That's the ATF position, today. I can plug weld the hole in an AR receiver to prevent using one of those icky parts kits. However as per ATF (already inquired) MG once and always.

For your project why not become a SOT / MFG

[tmckay2]

Cheaper for the receiver than attorney. To date, after browsing the web, and previous times (the M-14 rewelds years back) as Bert said Once a MG ALWAYS a MG. That's the ATF position, today. I can plug weld the hole in an AR receiver to prevent using one of those icky parts kits. However as per ATF (already inquired) MG once and always.

For your project why not become a SOT / MFG

never really looked into it or what it involves. like i said i haven't had the coin to even contemplate anything like it before so it is all new. i only graduated two years ago. and unfortunately reading previous threads on this and other forums never seems to get the exact answer to the exact question so i basically have to post new questions. i would assume going the route of SOT/MFG is pretty intensive.

[Great-Kazoo]

never really looked into it or what it involves. like i said i haven't had the coin to even contemplate anything like it before so it is all new. i only graduated two years ago. and unfortunately reading previous threads on this and other forums never seems to get the exact answer to the exact question so i basically have to post new questions. i would assume going the route of SOT/MFG is pretty intensive.

If the zoning board, neighbors and aft visit, have no issues, it's easier than you think. Outside the fees, go for it. Based on personal research, not including board members, who are SOT. There's a shit load, along the front range. Hell basic ffls in this town, top a dozen.

Regarding rewelds, do some research in to the M-14 MKS debacle, that happened, IIRC 12- 15 years ago. ATF approved, then renegged, after the fact. Hate to see you invest good money & labor, to have them at your door 8 months later.

[APEXgunparts]

so i am looking at getting into the belt fed game since i already have some belts and cans. a pkm seems the most likely, but i have a question on the receivers. if i don't get a new one and instead have a demilled one welded, it would likely still be full auto. that being the case, i can obviously have a piece of metal stuck in there to keep it semi however would it be possible to send in to the atf to get it approved and then have a full auto? i am guessing there is more to it than that, but can't find a clear answer.

second, anyone ever seen a welded receiver that came out looking good?

The best place for this question and to see examples of legally built semi-auto belt feds, would be to join:
www.weaponsguild.com

There are entire sections devoted to the PKM/PKT, M53/MG42, UK59, SG43 Goryunov etc.
Also LOTS of semi-auto builds for many different types of sub-machine guns.

If you like the Browning M1919 the WeaponsGuild has data and you can also join:
http://1919a4.com

Both sites have lots of info to include shared copies of ATF determination letters regarding what needs to be in a semi-auto build.

I hope this helps!

Richard

[tmckay2]

thanks for the help. i will look into it.

richard - can you make pkt kits work on a pkm receiver without insane labor (mainly fabricating parts) if you just get a few pkm parts that aren't the same on the pkt kits? i considered just getting an vltor receiver, i can get a us made pkm or pkt barrel, and a pkt parts kit but i know there are some differences.

[tmckay2]

whoops just got your email. thanks

[gta_spec]

one other benefit of the vltor reciever would be the ability to sell the firearm at a later date as it can be easily transfered. My understanding is that selling a home build is a gray area, let alone a home build based on a mg.

[Circuits]

one other benefit of the vltor reciever would be the ability to sell the firearm at a later date as it can be easily transfered. My understanding is that selling a home build is a gray area, let alone a home build based on a mg.

You can never ever make, build or buy firearms for the purpose of reselling them, unless you have the appropriate FFL. As long as you make, build or buy firearms for yourself, you can at any time later choose to sell them.

The gray legal area is not whether you're allowed to sell your firearms, or whether you built the receiver yourself or not as opposed to buying a commercial receiver upon which to build; but at what point your pattern of buying and reselling firearms requires you to get a license to do so.

[Hound]

You can never ever make, build or buy firearms for the purpose of reselling them, unless you have the appropriate FFL. As long as you make, build or buy firearms for yourself, you can at any time later choose to sell them.

The gray legal area is not whether you're allowed to sell your firearms, or whether you built the receiver yourself or not as opposed to buying a commercial receiver upon which to build; but at what point your pattern of buying and reselling firearms requires you to get a license to do so.

The Supreme court just backed your statement up BIG time.

[tmckay2]

it appears if you use a pkt kit you got some serious altering/fabricating of parts in order to make it work with a pkm receiver. thats a bummer.

[Great-Kazoo]

The Supreme court just backed your statement up BIG time.

SCOTUS decision was regarding straw purchase / buying a firearm with the intent to sell / resell to another person.

A divided Supreme Court sided with gun control groups and the Obama administration Monday, ruling that the federal ban on "straw" purchases of guns can be enforced even if the ultimate buyer is legally allowed to own a gun.

[asmo]

so i am looking at getting into the belt fed game since i already have some belts and cans.

Don't do it. They look cool and fun as hell to shoot. But damn do they hurt the pocket book (coming from a 1919A4 owner)


however would it be possible to send in to the atf to get it approved and then have a full auto?

Got an 07/02? If so, you should be fine. Otherwise no, you cant do it. Nothing new goes on the NFA records unless it comes from an 07/02 (or 10 if you want to make DDs).


i am guessing there is more to it than that, but can't find a clear answer.

Just paperwork and cash.

Type 07 FFL = $50/year
Class 2 SOT = $500/year
ITAR = $2,250/year


second, anyone ever seen a welded receiver that came out looking good?

Yes, but PKMs are, in general, ugly as fuck anyway so who cares.