View Full Version : MC gangs like NYC or Mad Max in CO?
68Charger
07-17-2014, 18:08
Is this what happens when gun control takes hold in your state? you begin to resemble NYC and other places where roving Motorcycle gangs rule the land?
http://www.wetmountaintribune.com/home.asp?i=803&p=1
Guess that's one side of the story.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 18:23
The Valiants mentioned are in CO, same for the story. Why anyone with a very visible patch would assault some L7's while on a run, means there is more to the story. As for the innocents who were assaulted, not my fault they either failed to have a firearm on them ,or be the type who doesn't feel the need to own a gun.
How you equate this story as NYC gun control taking hold analogy, i'm lost
The Valiants mentioned are in CO, same for the story. Why anyone with a very visible patch would assault some L7's while on a run, means there is more to the story. As for the innocents who were assaulted, not my fault they either failed to have a firearm on them ,or be the type who doesn't feel the need to own a gun.
Can you expand on this? Ah Pook seems to be indicating that the victims were not innocent, while you still referred to them as "innocents." I'm confused.
68Charger
07-17-2014, 18:30
How you equate this story as NYC gun control taking hold analogy, i'm lost
because I haven't lost all my memory (yet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxKdDxta8rQ
The Newspaper story says one of the gang pointed a gun at the car...
I agree, this is one side of the story- but is this they way they should handle it, even if they're cut off? (no report of an accident otherwise, I looked)
68Charger
07-17-2014, 18:33
Either way, I don't know the makeup of Custer county, but they're in for trouble if they try to come to Fremont county... VERY high armed rate, both civilian and DOC/DOJ employees... plus we already seem to have an established organized crime syndicate that's entrenched with the local gov't/courts.
And don't everyone start that I'm anti MC.. I've got a bike with over 62k miles, and I never felt the need to gang up or point a gun at anyone in the over 100K lifetime miles I've logged.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 18:39
because I haven't lost all my memory (yet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxKdDxta8rQ
The Newspaper story says one of the gang pointed a gun at the car...
I agree, this is one side of the story- but is this they way they should handle it, even if they're cut off? (no report of an accident otherwise, I looked)
That's not a Biker Gang, by any means. As would be a few guys with guns, being a white supremacist militia.
In today's era of instant gratification via the web, You never know who is watching. With that being said, flash back 40 years, some one intentionally tried to run some one off the road. It was handled on the spot.
I love guns and motorcycles.... Sad to see them like this. If he had a gun this could have escalated easily into hurting his family in a gun fight(with a 3 year old in the back seat) yet not having a gun could have ended with him dead anyways. Messed up. No right answer. It is his right to chose not to carry as much as it is my right to carry. Personally, if you don't want the responsibility of a gun, I don't want you to have one. This is not a matter of carry or not. It is a matter bad things can happen out there, regardless. This is a case of the cops being close enough to matter, and the guy holding it together long enough that they could. I say good job to both.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 18:42
Can you expand on this? Ah Pook seems to be indicating that the victims were not innocent, while you still referred to them as "innocents." I'm confused.
As for the innocents who were assaulted
Until a thorough investigation is completed, i will say they, as anyone else "assaulted" is considered innocent.
I am not condoning the actions of any mc riders depicted or mentioned in the stories. Personally if you need the support of a "gang" to carry your weight, you have no business riding a mc . Or any other item GANGS gravitate to.
There was also a witness who took a video of the attack,” Sheriff Jobe said. “We are working on enhancing the video in order to identify who is in it.”
http://youtu.be/KiqkclCJsZs
20-1 odds the "innocent visiting family" was road raging or driving in a dangerously careless manner. A traditional MC is not going to randomly attack a motorist for sport. The article claims that the motorist was "prevented from passing them." That is usually done for safety reasons. Apparently, he was in a hurry, and the club's SUVs deliberately blocking him from passing the bikes was not enough of a clue for him to back off, and after a bike went down it seems things escalated.
ThunderSquirrel
07-17-2014, 20:12
20-1 odds the "innocent visiting family" was road raging or driving in a dangerously careless manner. A traditional MC is not going to randomly attack a motorist for sport. The article claims that the motorist was "prevented from passing them." That is usually done for safety reasons. Apparently, he was in a hurry, and the club's SUVs deliberately blocking him from passing the bikes was not enough of a clue for him to back off, and after a bike went down it seems things escalated.
Terrible argument. Since when do groups of people riding motorcycles get to enforce 'safety' on a public road. By purposely blocking someone in, you are going to do nothing but escalate the situation, period. And there is nothing 'safe' about that.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 20:19
Terrible argument. Since when do groups of people riding motorcycles get to enforce 'safety' on a public road. By purposely blocking someone in, you are going to do nothing but escalate the situation, period. And there is nothing 'safe' about that.
When the asshole in the vehicle has already swerved back in to the motorcycles once, avoiding a head on with a camper in the opposite lane. Nearly hitting someone on a bike, yet failing to stop for the 3 who laid theirs down so they would not be side swiped by the suv.
You call it what you want. i call it preventing a potential fatality.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 21:08
Push me shove you.......
What, No Compromise ?
68Charger
07-17-2014, 22:45
That's not a Biker Gang, by any means. As would be a few guys with guns, being a white supremacist militia.
In today's era of instant gratification via the web, You never know who is watching. With that being said, flash back 40 years, some one intentionally tried to run some one off the road. It was handled on the spot.
They are on motorcycles, and intimidating like a gang.. Should we call them faeries?
Terrible argument. Since when do groups of people riding motorcycles get to enforce 'safety' on a public road. By purposely blocking someone in, you are going to do nothing but escalate the situation, period. And there is nothing 'safe' about that.
My point exactly... Somebody got pissed off, and escalated the situation... Acting like a gang of thugs...
When the asshole in the vehicle has already swerved back in to the motorcycles once, avoiding a head on with a camper in the opposite lane. Nearly hitting someone on a bike, yet failing to stop for the 3 who laid theirs down so they would not be side swiped by the suv.
You call it what you want. i call it preventing a potential fatality.
So you were there? ( I'm talking about the Colorado incident)
Regardless of how it started, not a good way to handle it... With a mob?
My point is, if this can then this ugly less than 18 miles outside Westcliffe, you're not safe anywhere from this kind of problem...
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 22:59
They are on motorcycles, and intimidating like a gang.. Should we call them faeries?
My point exactly... Somebody got pissed off, and escalated the situation... Acting like a gang of thugs...
So you were there?
Regardless of how it started, not a good way to handle it... With a mob?
My point is, if this can then this ugly less than 18 miles outside Westcliffe, you're not safe anywhere from this kind of problem...
They're nothing but PUNKS.
I've been in a scenario similar, before.
None of us were there.
Based on personal experience ,as mentioned before, people in vehicles believe they can Squeeze in amongst a group of motorcycles, Because they don't want to get injured or crash. AND they ASSume they're in the right. See those flashing highway information signs saying .
LOOK TWICE MOTORCYCLES ARE EVERYWHERE. There's a reason for them. .
ANYONE who BELIEVES they are Safe, from big city problems, in rural America, need to reevaluate their security ops.
We've discussed this before. 99.9% of people interviewed, after a violent crime happened near them said. . "You'd like to think something like this, couldn't happen here". It does and will.
If anything, real rural areas are prime spots for the unexpected. People let their defense down, become complacent. Why because it's so far removed from large cities you don't see it coming.
They're nothing but PUNKS.
I've been in a scenario similar, before.
None of us were there.
Based on personal experience ,as mentioned before, people in vehicles believe they can Squeeze in amongst a group of motorcycles, Because they don't want to get injured or crash. AND they ASSume they're in the right. See those flashing highway information signs saying .
LOOK TWICE MOTORCYCLES ARE EVERYWHERE. There's a reason for them. .
ANYONE who BELIEVES they are Safe, from big city problems, in rural America, need to reevaluate their security ops.
We've discussed this before. 99.9% of people interviewed, after a violent crime happened near them said. . "You'd like to think something like this, couldn't happen here". It does and will.
If anything, real rural areas are prime spots for the unexpected. People let their defense down, become complacent. Why because it's so far removed from large cities you don't see it coming.
Well put. [Beer]
Cages are the biggest danger on the road for anyone on two wheels. "Being invisible" has led me to almost taking a guy's side mirror off, cracked it nicely thanks to protected gloves. I can't speak for this specific instance, but I have been riding where car drivers are distracted and almost kill everyone in the immediate vicinity. In times like those it's quite prudent to give them a nudge in the safe direction by blocking them from doing more stupid.
Please.
Gather your facts. The Valiants may be many things other than valiant, but they are not a violent, 1% crew hell bent on criminal intent. In my personal experience, the majority of the Valiants that I have any experience with are pretty mellow folks. What we likely have here is an incident of provocation, or at most, a specific chapter trying to live the hollywood inspired "outlaw biker" lifestyle. Educate yourselves on the actual tendencies of most supposed "outlaw bikers", or continue to condemn them, as The Left condemns us.
The many shall not be judged by the the few. (Hint here: this applies to our ilk.)
I personally know some worthless, POS biker types (some wannbe's, some full patch), but they by no means define the entire group. See any similarities to the misfortune of owning a firearm?? On the flip, I know very many benevolent, hard working, independent individuals who happen to live the biker lifestyle, whether club affiliated, or not.
Without mentioning specific, organized factions, there are several other "outlaw gangs" I could point you towards, but that does not seem prudent. I could give you color combinations that would help you identify some, if not most of them. But again, that would not be prudent. The worst of them have no interest in our great state for no other means than financial gain, and expansion of there perceived empire. Hell, some of them had no interest in establishing a presence here until one of their rival clubs did. There are some I avoid like the plague, but also many others that I have to have a specific and personal reason to dislike.
I believe there is an entire other thread about generalizations of populace.
Just my $.02
BushMasterBoy
07-17-2014, 23:43
Lil' tidbit of info here...
https://info.publicintelligence.net/LA-OutlawBikers.pdf
From what I read, I don't even think they were that- one guy riding in the group told reporters after the incident that it was a loosely organized ride. YMMV... Just going off what I heard. Either way, mob mentality is a very dangerous thing.
Great-Kazoo
07-17-2014, 23:51
From what I read, I don't even think they were that- one guy riding in the group told reporters after the incident that it was a loosely organized ride. YMMV... Just going off what I heard. Either way, mob mentality is a very dangerous thing.
Lets not forget the off duty NYPD guys, riding with them.
Great-Kazoo
07-18-2014, 00:09
Lil' tidbit of info here...
https://info.publicintelligence.net/LA-OutlawBikers.pdf
All i'll say is substitute OMG with NRA. Especially when it comes to protective gear and LARGE CACHE OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS .
Lil' tidbit of info here...
https://info.publicintelligence.net/LA-OutlawBikers.pdf
It's on the interwebz, it must be true. BonJour.
More amusing than interesting. If that is anyones only insight to outlaw M/C clubs, they will be sorely misinformed. Mostly outdated, highly conjectural, and some of it even fictional. But I guess anything published by the LAPD (supposedly), for the LAPD, and other LE groups is gospel. Surprising that it was mostly HAMC centric (NOT).
I'm not advocating for outlaw M/C clubs by any means, but that is laughable.
Back on topic to the OP, I don't think this is about M/C clubs, outlaw or otherwise, but a specific incident which has been spun by the media, to it's own means.
just my opinion, and having said that, I am out...
bellavite1
07-18-2014, 06:44
Oh for fuck sake's!
Being a former member of a 1% club, I can tell you a few things for a fact:
The VAST majority of clubs have NOTHING to gain from attacking an "innocent driver" and his goddamn family.
It is all unwanted attention.
You don't get any "points" by doing that.
I have seen this happen before, but let me tell you what happened:
A rider and his girlfriend exiting the highway on their way to the beach and suddenly they almost get killed because some fucktard got off the wrong exit and was trying to get back on the highway by going in REVERSE on a ramp...
Rider had to lock the brakes, bike fishtailed, girlfiend hanging on for dear life...
Did the driver get beat? YES.
Did he deserve it? YES.
Here you signal you are changing lanes and instead of making room people speed up to cut you off.
Why the hell is that???
The bottom line is simple:
Don't be stupid, don't be disrespectful, you'll have nothing to worry about.
ruthabagah
07-18-2014, 07:07
The range rover guy is guilty! Oh, wait, wrong thread....
Bailey Guns
07-18-2014, 07:23
Oh for fuck sake's!
Being a former member of a 1% club, I can tell you a few things for a fact:
The VAST majority of clubs have NOTHING to gain from attacking an "innocent driver" and his goddamn family.
It is all unwanted attention.
You don't get any "points" by doing that.
I have seen this happen before, but let me tell you what happened:
A rider and his girlfriend exiting the highway on their way to the beach and suddenly they almost get killed because some fucktard got off the wrong exit and was trying to get back on the highway by going in REVERSE on a ramp...
Rider had to lock the brakes, bike fishtailed, girlfiend hanging on for dear life...
Did the driver get beat? YES.
Did he deserve it? YES.
Here you signal you are changing lanes and instead of making room people speed up to cut you off.
Why the hell is that???
The bottom line is simple:
Don't be stupid, don't be disrespectful, you'll have nothing to worry about.
Trying to justify beating the driver of a car for doing stupid shit is ridiculous. I'd constantly be beating someone if that was the case. You don't get to take the law into your own hands just because you ride a motorcycle. Why is that any different than being in a car accident caused by another stupid driver? It isn't.
There are plenty of instances of tough guys getting killed because they thought someone was disrespectful to them and decided to start some trouble.
I can't believe people are advocating violence against the driver of a car because said driver did something the other person felt was "stupid" or "disrespectful". Just because you're riding in a group of motorcycles doesn't mean you're immune from the realities of the road or you get to administer your own brand of justice because you feel slighted over something someone else has done.
bellavite1
07-18-2014, 07:58
Trying to justify beating the driver of a car for doing stupid shit is ridiculous. I'd constantly be beating someone if that was the case. You don't get to take the law into your own hands just because you ride a motorcycle. Why is that any different than being in a car accident caused by another stupid driver? It isn't.
There are plenty of instances of tough guys getting killed because they thought someone was disrespectful to them and decided to start some trouble.
I can't believe people are advocating violence against the driver of a car because said driver did something the other person felt was "stupid" or "disrespectful". Just because you're riding in a group of motorcycles doesn't mean you're immune from the realities of the road or you get to administer your own brand of justice because you feel slighted over something someone else has done.
You are right.
Trying to justify beating the driver of a car for doing stupid shit is ridiculous. I'd constantly be beating someone if that was the case. You don't get to take the law into your own hands just because you ride a motorcycle. Why is that any different than being in a car accident caused by another stupid driver? It isn't.
There are plenty of instances of tough guys getting killed because they thought someone was disrespectful to them and decided to start some trouble.
I can't believe people are advocating violence against the driver of a car because said driver did something the other person felt was "stupid" or "disrespectful". Just because you're riding in a group of motorcycles doesn't mean you're immune from the realities of the road or you get to administer your own brand of justice because you feel slighted over something someone else has done.
There is some quote, somewhere, about cooler heads prevailing... it's usually best, although very difficult, to remove your emotions from the equation. Some people are just inconsiderate, rude, and stupid, doesn't mean beating them is the right course. Yes, motorcycles are more dangerous because you have very little protection, and stupid drivers can more likely cause your demise, but beating a driver for his transgressions is a sure fire way to lose your freedom. Once again, Bailey brings wisdom to the conversation. [Beer]
I can't believe that driver forced that gentleman to buy a motorcycle and ride it on public roadways where motorcycles are in constant danger. The nerve of some people...
bellavite1
07-18-2014, 10:22
I can't believe that driver forced that gentleman to buy a motorcycle and ride it on public roadways where motorcycles are in constant danger. The nerve of some people...
Can't believe we are being forced to spend our money on rifles constantly in danger of being banned either...
Can't believe we are being forced to spend our money on rifles constantly in danger of being banned either...
You're not being forced. It's a choice you're making because you feel it's in your best interest. I love motorcycles but I stay to cars because I feel having steel around me is in my best interest while on public roadways.
Bailey Guns
07-18-2014, 10:31
I don't know... With some of the prices I'm seeing these days, "forced" might be the right word. It's emotional blackmail if nothing else.
Been riding for over 45 years, dealt with all kinds of folks in that time at races and on the road. When I first started riding on the street (down in Arizona) I was coming home from a trip when my crappy old Sportster broke down about 75 miles from Tucson. I sat on the side of the road for well over an hour trying to figure out what was wrong. I heard the familiar rumble of Harleys coming up but was focused on the problem I couldn't diagnose. Long story short the only people who stopped were these riders. Turned out to be members of one of the most well know 1% club. One of the guys figured out where a wire rubbed through the insulation, fixed me up and got me back on the road. Invited me to say "hey" if ever ran into him at the well known biker bar in town but as I wasn't old enough to drink I just laughed and said it would be awhile, he wouldn't take any cash for his help either.
As was pointed out the situation in NY was way different as well as the one near Westcliff. We have all the big clubs here in the Denver metro area, been around the bike scene since I moved here in 1984, my experiences are that they tend to keep to themselves, very very rare for a situation to escalate to those outside the life. Well there was this one guy wearing a "Sons of Anarchy" t-shirt that got made fun of...by everyone...at a bbq event at Rocky Mtn HD a couple of years ago but that was the closest thing I've seen where an outsider got hassled.
Great-Kazoo
07-19-2014, 17:07
Well there was this one guy wearing a "Sons of Anarchy" t-shirt that got made fun of...by everyone...at a bbq event at Rocky Mtn HD a couple of years ago but that was the closest thing I've seen where an outsider got hassled.
He should have been lumped up on GP alone.
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