Ignorant non-gun people

[CHA-LEE]

I am trying to understand the reasoning around people who have a hard stance against guns or even being around them when they clearly don’t even know much about them.

I was at a party a couple of weeks ago which mainly consisted of my wife’s friends. At some point during the evening my wife mentioned something about my competition shooting during a conversation. Several of the people in the discussion were instantly resentful of me even owning firearms much less using them, regardless of what they are being used for. I tried to gracefully dig into why they disliked firearms so much but all I got were ignorant comments like “Guns are evil”, “Guns are dangerous”, or “I just don’t like guns”. I tried my best to communicate honest facts about guns, their use and misuse along with comparing the dangers of firearms to statistics of other everyday things that hurt or kill way more people than guns, but it was a useless effort. I don’t understand how someone can be so against something like firearms when they don’t even know the facts. How does this misinformation even start? Should I even try to educate these people on firearms or is it just a waste of time?

[davsel]

You need a new group of "friends."
Waste of time.

[CHA-LEE]

I can't disagree with you there. These were my wife's "Friends", not mine.

[Whistler]

You can lead a Liberal to knowledge but you can't make him think.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Time for a new wife? Seriously though, you should know without a doubt that you will never "win" a conversation or persuade a liberal. The more facts you put before them, the louder and nastier they get. That's my experience anyways. Good luck.

[ray1970]

Wasting your breath. I can't explain why, but it seems once people like that decide they "don't like guns" nothing you say is going to change their minds.

My wife occasionally brings up my hobby around people we don't know very well. I'm just waiting for the day where I am in exactly the spot you were in the other day.

[HBARleatherneck]

In thankful that my wife and I dont know any liberals. All her co-workers are conservative. She carries guns into the office all the time. (of course she carries everyday) The only liberals I ever come into contact with are on this forum.

[Dave_L]

Yeah....good luck. They're so smart they don't need your caveman mentality around.

[CHA-LEE]

Towards the end of the discussion I did say......"well, if you want to base your stance on the subject with nothing but ignorance while ignoring the facts, I guess that is your decision". That last comment pretty much killed the whole discussion and I got the mean mug look from my wife for basically calling her friends idiots. Not the best way to make brownie points with the wife, but some times you have to take one for the team.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Did anyone say that you're heartless child hater?

[Mtn.man]

People always fear what they no nothing about.

[CHA-LEE]

Did anyone say that you're heartless child hater?

I am sure there was much said about me while not in the area.

[Great-Kazoo]

Towards the end of the discussion I did say......"well, if you want to base your stance on the subject with nothing but ignorance while ignoring the facts, I guess that is your decision". That last comment pretty much killed the whole discussion and I got the mean mug look from my wife for basically calling her friends idiots. Not the best way to make brownie points with the wife, but some times you have to take one for the team.

When you hit the brick wall, change the subject. Well since guns are a touchy topic, anyone want to swap wives. Oh they're real yaky after that. Yeah i'm talking to you eye candy, while staring at one of the hot ones husbands. [ROFL3]

[CHA-LEE]

To be clear, my wife and I both share the same views on firearms. Its not a me verses her thing. She is simply more courteous than I am when people act or talk like idiots. I call a spade a spade and that tends to get me in trouble more often than not.

[Whistler]

I am sure there was much said about me while not in the area.

Hole in the surveillance system?

[Dave_L]

I used to be a little more tight lipped on the gun debate but not any longer. I'm always polite but I wont stay quiet if it comes up. If people want to not like me for it, I just tell them "Thanks for the tolerance" and move on.

[SuperiorDG]

I would tell them that shooting makes you hard and the only way to get it to go down is to have sex with your wife for hours. I sure all the women will be buying guns for their husbands. But I'm just a smart ass.

[Bailey Guns]

You could try mugging several of them and beating the crap out of them. Anonymously so they don't know it's you and you're wife doesn't get mad at you for mugging her friends, of course.

People who have near-death crime experiences often change their minds on guns being bad.

[Coffee]

[Ah Pook]

Did anyone say that you're heartless child hater?
Why drag me into this?

[Sawin]

Invite the most liberal among them to go shooting with you sometime. Just that one person, none of the others. Get that one to go with you and enforce safety, but make it fun... shoot small calibers only, etc... see if they change their mind, even a little bit. Oh, and make them buy the ammo ;). I've used this tactic with 3 colleagues, and in each case, they grew more comfortable and respectful of both firearms and me. It's not necessarily the most "fun" day at the range, but it's a good use of my time and experience in my opinion.

[Sawin]

When you hit the brick wall, change the subject. Well since guns are a touchy topic, anyone want to swap wives. Oh they're real yaky after that. Yeah i'm talking to you eye candy, while staring at one of the hot ones husbands. [ROFL3]

hahahahaha I'd love to see that happen... but I don't think i'd be the one to do it.

[davsel]

Bring bacon wrapped prairie dog hors de'vours to the next party.
Tell them what it was after they've finished the platter - show pictures of the "hunt."

If you can't beat 'em, screw 'em.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Towards the end of the discussion I did say......"well, if you want to base your stance on the subject with nothing but ignorance while ignoring the facts, I guess that is your decision". That last comment pretty much killed the whole discussion and I got the mean mug look from my wife for basically calling her friends idiots. Not the best way to make brownie points with the wife, but some times you have to take one for the team.

Well ... that's better than ending the "conversation" by saying, "excuse me, I need to go help out with Special Olympics so I can talk to someone with an IQ greater than 60 ..."

[cstone]

Did President Obama or any of his policies come up during the evening's conversation? Any chance they could convince you of their point of view on those?

Normally my biggest problem is when people bring up a subject and once they realize you have a different opinion, they want to change the subject. If all I wanted to hear were people who agreed with me, then I could sit in my basement and talk to myself...more than I already do now.[Flower]

[SuperiorDG]

Did President Obama or any of his policies come up during the evening's conversation? Any chance they could convince you of their point of view on those?

Normally my biggest problem is when people bring up a subject and once they realize you have a different opinion, they want to change the subject. If all I wanted to hear were people who agreed with me, then I could sit in my basement and talk to myself...more than I already do now.[Flower][Score]

[00tec]

One of my wife's old co-workers called her a baby killer because she mentioned to someone that i had an AR... The entire room laughed at that bitch.

[sabot_round]

If I have already stated the facts, and they refuse to listen...too bad!! I'll just tell them that when "that time comes to protect their family", call 911!! And by the way, the average police response to 911 is 27 minutes...the average response of a 357 magnum is 1,300 FPS!!

SR

[Squeeze]

I gave up on trying to have those types of discussions. Kills me how firearms are the only tool that it is "okay" to discriminate against...along with those who legally own them.

[HoneyBadger]

Wasting your breath. I can't explain why, but it seems once people like that decide they "don't like guns" nothing you say is going to change their minds.

I disagree. Bringing them to a good range (not Dragonman's [facepalm]) will give you about 50/50 odds. It's been pretty successful for me, but the right environment and the right approach is key. Don't start them out with a 12ga slug or a 300Win mag. [facepalm]Start out with .22lr at shortish distances and get them to enjoy .22. Once you enjoy shooting .22, the door is open and the possibilities are endless. Having fun with it will change their minds when logic doesn't work. Once they like it, they will find whatever facts and stats they want to support what they like.

[ray1970]

I disagree. Bringing them to a good range (not Dragonman's [facepalm]) with give you about 50/50 odds. It's been pretty successful for me, but the right environment and the right approach is key. Don't start them out with a 12ga slug or a 300Win mag. [facepalm]Start out with .22lr at shortish distances and get them to enjoy .22. Once you enjoy shooting .22, the door is open and the possibilities are endless. Having fun with it will change their minds when logic doesn't work. Once they like it, they will find whatever facts and stats they want to support what they like.

I'd rather take them out and let them squeeze off a shot on one of these...

http://www.michaelbraun.me/files/backwardsgun.jpg

[HoneyBadger]

I call a spade a spade and that tends to get me in trouble more often than not.
Good for you. Honesty is ALWAYS a better general policy than deception.

[Brian]

I am trying to understand the reasoning around people who have a hard stance against guns or even being around them when they clearly don’t even know much about them.

I was at a party a couple of weeks ago which mainly consisted of my wife’s friends. At some point during the evening my wife mentioned something about my competition shooting during a conversation. Several of the people in the discussion were instantly resentful of me even owning firearms much less using them, regardless of what they are being used for. I tried to gracefully dig into why they disliked firearms so much but all I got were ignorant comments like “Guns are evil”, “Guns are dangerous”, or “I just don’t like guns”. I tried my best to communicate honest facts about guns, their use and misuse along with comparing the dangers of firearms to statistics of other everyday things that hurt or kill way more people than guns, but it was a useless effort. I don’t understand how someone can be so against something like firearms when they don’t even know the facts. How does this misinformation even start? Should I even try to educate these people on firearms or is it just a waste of time?

Sometimes just people like to argue and not back down when they're in a group. You never know what they will leave with and whether or not they will re-examine what they heard. Like anything, half of it is respecting the person you're talking with. Just don't freak out and get all angry - the more intelligent, calm, gun lovers that people meet, it will help them realize we're not all the scary people that Bloomberg tells them about. I can't even count the number of people I know that started out as severely anti-gun and now are either neutral, friendly, or gun-owners themselves. They didn't change their mind because some crazy gun dude managed to make his point louder at some dinner party. Good for you for trying, and keeping your head. You can always blow off steam/frustration the next day at the range. :)

[Brian]

I disagree. Bringing them to a good range (not Dragonman's [facepalm]) with give you about 50/50 odds. It's been pretty successful for me, but the right environment and the right approach is key. Don't start them out with a 12ga slug or a 300Win mag. [facepalm]Start out with .22lr at shortish distances and get them to enjoy .22. Once you enjoy shooting .22, the door is open and the possibilities are endless. Having fun with it will change their minds when logic doesn't work. Once they like it, they will find whatever facts and stats they want to support what they like.


This. The 22lr is a gateway drug for anti-gunners. Especially if you have a little steel target that goes "ping". ;)

[Big E3]

I usually follow up there statements that "guns are evil", with "I know what you mean as soon as I realized I was getting fat I got rid of all my silverware", then I walk away. You'll never win might as well make them think and don't give them anyone to argue with.

[Zundfolge]

Ages ago I penned (well typed) a classification system I came up with for antis. I know I posted it on this forum but I think it was back before one of the server crashes and/or moves so it's lost now but I found it on THR where I'd posted it back in aught-three.

I concluded that there are 4 basic types of anti gun folk (and there are many who fall into more than one category).


The Duped: The majority of people who say they support gun control or vote for anti-gun candidates ... these people have bought the lies told by the gun control movement. They honestly believe that gun control would make us safer. There is hope to turn these people to the truth as they are just lied too and not committed to believing the lies because of other personal reasons like groups 2 & 3 (and they are by far the largest group).
The Partisans: They are Democrats/liberals/progressives ... and their party says "guns are bad"...or more to the point "those who support gun rights are our enemy" so they support gun control and vote for anti gun candidates. These people are pretty much unreachable unless Republicans became pro gun control. Most could care less one way or the other whether guns are legal, illegal, restricted, or whatever (although most are partially duped and I'm sure there are plenty Hoplolphobes among them too).
The Hopolophobes: just simply people with an irrational fear of guns ... they are unreachable. Therapy for their phobia is required. (this is a somewhat small group ... smaller than 1 and 2).
The Power Seekers: These are the Schumers and Feinsteins ... these are the leaders of the movement who know guns aren't bad but know they can't implement their other diabolical plans against us as long as we're armed (this is actually a very small group ... even most anti-gun politicians are just Partisans, Dupes and/or Hopolophobes, only a very select few are trying to enslave us).

[TheGrey]

We recently had someone from California stay with us for a few days (I know, I know.) When she asked for ideas of what there was to do, I mentioned going to the range. Her eyes got REALLY BIG and she shook her head, saying "No! Guns SCARE me..." When I asked why, she just shrugged and shook her head, donning a pathetic expression. I swear to god, her eyes were empty circles like Little Orphan Annie...and the rest of her stay proved that her head was equally empty. Had she simply said, "No, thank you. I am not comfortable with that," or anything vaguely resembling an adult response, I don't think I would have had such a strong nostril-straining reaction. But instead, she chose to try and play the innocent childlike naif- when she was clearly a couple dozen years beyond pulling that off. After she left, I was actually thankful she hadn't taken me up on the offer. I wouldn't trust her type with a sharpened pencil.

Not all ladies are the type that would shriek at the idea, but it does seem to take a very confident, self-assured woman that will consider attempting to break the 'gunpowder ceiling' and pick up a firearm. Not to be a wet blanket, but you have to remember that women are under tremendous pressure to conform to what society agrees is 'properly feminine.' Let me give you an example: when I was at the range a few weeks ago, there was a gentleman that brought his girlfriend for her first lesson in shooting. He had an assortment of guns for her to try. He was clearly pleased and proud that she was willing to give it a go, and she was clearly trying to make him happy. She was also wearing what I consider to be the "third date outfit"- cute shorts, a tank top, and espadrille wedges (these are the wedge shaped heels that are normally about three inches high. Hers were of the platform variety, so they were at least four inches.) She had date makeup on, and a full French manicure.

Because of that, she couldn't load the magazines. It was only after the Range Master told them that she needed to put on her eye protection that she did. Her stance was completely wrong because of her heels; sure, they popped her calves nicely but her balance was compromised and she only shot his .40 caliber once because it almost knocked her on her can. She jumped around when some hot brass went down her tank top. I asked her a little about the various guns she was trying, but she couldn't name a single one. He then showed her how o load the magazines into the gun, and she acted like she couldn't do it. She mimed the 'helpless girl' and he straightened up and did it for her.

I think back to what my gun instructors told me about having the right mindset when handling firearms; paying attention and always knowing where your gun is pointed, how you are standing, where your fingers are, and so on. Respect the firearm. Be there for the right reason. A lot of times, ladies get mixed signals: we're supposed to always look good, but be willing to do tasks while dressing and looking like the Hollywood starlets, wearing shorts or skirts or high heels or whatever. And we are never, ever supposed to be better than the men we're trying to impress.

I know. It's damned stupid, and many of us no longer buy what society is selling. But a lot of them are, because that's the image that is selling. That's what many women's peer groups are selling, because it perpetuates the image of the 'proper' and 'forward-thinking' woman that the Powers that Be decree. And like it or not, it's a Gordian knot of politics, social culture, education (and institutionalized mindsets) and peer groups.

Then again, there are those women that simply fall into the 'groupthink' and go with the popular consensus of their circle of friends. There's very little sway there.

Apologies for the long-windedness and if I went to the soapbox. I never meant to do that; I just wanted to offer another viewpoint. :)

[cysoto]

I have given up on bringing non-shooters to the range with me. I find that conveying the importance of safe gun handling to a newbie is nearly impossible.

I also don't share my enjoyment of the shooting sports by conversing about this topic with anyone outside of my circle of shooting buddies. For people who don't like guns, speaking about them with someone who does, is a topic not much unlike religion or politics.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Well, I've only tried it a couple times, on my sister and my mother. Both were mildly anti-gun (my mother only allowed my father to keep an air pistol in the house so he could kill the occasional rat and my sister told me in no uncertain terms that I wasn't to give her young sons so much as a water pistol or rubber band gun) but I took my sister shooting on a visit home. All we used were the Mossberg 44US and a Ruger Mark III 22/45, both in .22LR but at the end of the session she proudly took her targets home to show her sons what mom could do. Haven't taken her to the range since but she had no problems with me taking her boys to the range on their visit last summer. I took Mom shooting at the club when she and her sisters visited for my retirement ceremony -- she enjoyed herself and has never given me crap over my collection although she hasn't asked to go again.

In both cases, I took care to break them in slowly with extensive talks about safety practices and proper gear/posture/etc. so we were over any apprehensions or nervousness by the time they held a loaded firearm.

[vossman]

Well done!


Towards the end of the discussion I did say......"well, if you want to base your stance on the subject with nothing but ignorance while ignoring the facts, I guess that is your decision". That last comment pretty much killed the whole discussion and I got the mean mug look from my wife for basically calling her friends idiots. Not the best way to make brownie points with the wife, but some times you have to take one for the team.

[Rucker61]

I used to be a little more tight lipped on the gun debate but not any longer. I'm always polite but I wont stay quiet if it comes up. If people want to not like me for it, I just tell them "Thanks for the tolerance" and move on.

i just ask them to embrace diversity.

[jhood001]

Well, I've only tried it a couple times, on my sister and my mother. Both were mildly anti-gun (my mother only allowed my father to keep an air pistol in the house so he could kill the occasional rat and my sister told me in no uncertain terms that I wasn't to give her young sons so much as a water pistol or rubber band gun) but I took my sister shooting on a visit home. All we used were the Mossberg 44US and a Ruger Mark III 22/45, both in .22LR but at the end of the session she proudly took her targets home to show her sons what mom could do. Haven't taken her to the range since but she had no problems with me taking her boys to the range on their visit last summer.

I like hearing success stories!

[wctriumph]

When I am met with firearms ignorance and comments as you describe, I will usually ask when was the last time they went shooting? If they have never been shooting before I invite the person(s) on a shooting trip and if they don't want to do that, I give them my best firm look and say, "then you should just stop talking as you are certainly not qualified to have an opinion on the subject". That will usually stop them right there. If not then they usually just make themselves look stupid after that.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I typically call them racists for not agreeing with me.

[jerrymrc]

I typically call them racists for not agreeing with me.

But you can do that.[LOL][Flower]

[ChunkyMonkey]

But you can do that.[LOL][Flower]

You can too... try it! [Coffee]

[TEAMRICO]

I typically call them racists for not agreeing with me.
I would say that as well as "I don't feel comfortable with your HATE SPEECH."

[wctriumph]

I would say that as well as "I don't feel comfortable with your HATE SPEECH."


I like that one, I think I will use it.