Denver Police Department

[AK545Man]

I just found out that 2 Denver cops searched my cousin's house yesterday evening. They did not ask to search and did not produce a search warrant. Is this what we to are expect from now on?

[Bailey Guns]

What's the "rest of the story"? Or did they just show up, walk in and start searching?

You do know police officers don't always need permission (consent is a wonderful thing) or a warrant (very nice to have but not always required) to search, don't you?

[ChunkyMonkey]

agreed.

you do not need a warrant if you have probable cause with exigent circumstances. And keep in mind, almost all the time, you will have better result by expressing your disagreement to the search loudly and clearly, and challenge it in the court -- rather than challenge it in your house.

...unless you have something to hide [Tooth]

[Irving]

There is a 10 page thread on another local board where the Denver PD sent swat to a guys house, tore up his place, and arrested him at work and he had nothing to hide. They didn't find anything. He is in a feud with his neighbor. Apparently his neighbor's little brother is an informant to Denver PD or something and told them he made a controlled drug purchase at the house. It's a crazy thread.

[ChunkyMonkey]

There is a 10 page thread on another local board where the Denver PD sent swat to a guys house, tore up his place, and arrested him at work and he had nothing to hide. They didn't find anything. He is in a feud with his neighbor. Apparently his neighbor's little brother is an informant to Denver PD or something and told them he made a controlled drug purchase at the house. It's a crazy thread.


That guy has once in a lifetime chance to get RICH!!!

[AK545Man]

From what I saw they parked the car down the street and then walked up to the house. When my family opened the door they walked in. That's the part I saw.

After that everything I know is from what they told me. They said the cops started walking around and looking through everything and left. They said they were never asked to consent for a search and no search warrant was ever produced. I have always been under the impression that at least one of the two was necessary for a lawful search.

Obviously they didn't find anything. No arrests were made. It just seems a little shady to me.

[Pancho Villa]

The law is subjective enough and lenient enough that cops can justify arguably illegal searches after the fact, be it a legitimate hunch on their part or something else.

Legal rules regarding the conduct of cops are, theoretically, very strict. Not so much in reality, though of course they don't just have carte blanche to go around searching people.

My solution to this problem is to not have anything to hide, but its a problem regardless.

[AK545Man]

Indeed. The thing on my mind since this happened has been if they can just walk in your house and search it for whatever reason, why would it be far fetched for them to "find something" that warrants an arrest?

That might sound a little paranoid but it's not like it's unheard of. Secondly, in life in general I have realized that if someone is corrupt enough to do one thing, more than likely they are corrupt enough to do something else. Like if I'd lie to you why wouldn't I lie to him, you know?

[GunTroll]

Probably were looking for you! Saw you on this site and made a move. You got your tin foil on????

[Bailey Guns]

Probable cause and/or exigent circumstances are enough to warrant a search.

It also may be that they were checking the home for other occupants...a safety issue. Not really a "search" in the sense they open drawers and boxes and so forth and it's allowed if the officers have a legal reason to be there and can articulate a need to do it for their safety. Sounds like this may be the case especially since nothing came of the whole thing.

There's probably the officer's side of the story, your family's side of the story and the truth somewhere in the middle.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Or as scenario mentioned by Stu, an asshol* neighbor etc did false report on your cousin.

[AK545Man]

They might have been guntroll. I like the way you think! lol

Yeah I agree though. The truth probably is somewhere in the middle. Does anyone know the laws regarding if the police are looking for your minor?

[gnihcraes]

If the gentleman was on "probation" for just about anything, the terms and conditions of probation allow for search at any time. The probation officer might not even have to be present for the search, just a recommendation to the officers that a search needs to be done for specific reasons of violation of probation.

[theGinsue]

The law is subjective enough and lenient enough that cops can justify arguably illegal searches after the fact, be it a legitimate hunch on their part or something else.

Legal rules regarding the conduct of cops are, theoretically, very strict. Not so much in reality, though of course they don't just have carte blanche to go around searching people.

My solution to this problem is to not have anything to hide, but its a problem regardless.

The part about the "hunch" is not legally substantial enough to hold up in court. Check out this YouTube video about how to handle encounters with LEO...this is NOT the video of the Professor/Lawyer with the cop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&NR=1)
The video is long (about 45 minutes) but well worth it. It’s put out by these folks: http://www.flexyourrights.org/ (http://www.flexyourrights.org/). I'm normally totally against the ACLU and these folks have an association with them, but they have good to know information. One thing I learned years ago - as an average joe civilian and then again as an LEO, EVERYONE has SOMETHING that can be turned and used against them, even if it's just in how you respond during an LEO/citizen encounter!

[sniper7]

could have been a fugitive or something loose or a guy ran from a high speed chase and they thought he was in there. any other information other than they parked down the street and walked in?

[AK545Man]

Sniper7 not really. From my understanding anyway. But as always understandings are relative. I'm extremely personal and can't comment in a positive way about what would've happened if this was my household. It was there's and the facts are lost because I wasn't there.

[PsyKo]

When my family opened the door they walked in.


if an officer comes to the door and you open it it can be considered an invitation and they dont need consent or a warrant. a home owner is fully within their rights to just ignore them and not answer the door.

i never answer my door unless i know who is on the other side. the bell rings, people knock, if im not expecting i pay it no mind, everyone i know has my number. if it is important enough i will find out eventually.

[Bailey Guns]

if an officer comes to the door and you open it it can be considered an invitation and they dont need consent or a warrant.

Huh...I must've slept through that part of search and seizure classes.

[ROFL1]

[Mtn.man]

so you missed the coffee and donuts too??? LOL

[Bailey Guns]

so you missed the coffee and donuts too??? LOL

Must have...but I'm makin' up for that now!

[sniper7]

if an officer comes to the door and you open it it can be considered an invitation and they dont need consent or a warrant. a home owner is fully within their rights to just ignore them and not answer the door.

i never answer my door unless i know who is on the other side. the bell rings, people knock, if im not expecting i pay it no mind, everyone i know has my number. if it is important enough i will find out eventually.


you sure about the whole invited in thing? don't you have to at least say they can come in? what if a stranger showed up or a burglar and you opened the door, does that mean they are invited in as well?

[PsyKo]

as others have said, the law is one thing and what actually passes in the eyes of the police and courts is another. i didnt intend to imply that is the law or policy, i meant an invitation for them to overstep their authority, it is only your word against his, if you open the door who is to say you didnt invite him in.

and to any LEO reading, dont say it doesnt happen, i have been the guy opening the door.

[Bailey Guns]

The level of expertise that can be found on the internet regarding the job of a law enforcement officer is amazing. Especially considering most of the experts have zero training or experience in the field of law enforcement.

[GunTroll]

Thank god that not everyone has LE training. It would be even worse than it is now........! Thats all I say to that.

[Bailey Guns]

Well, it would certainly take a lotta fun outta the internet. Besides...if you've (generic "you") got an axe, you might as well grind it. And internet forums make perfect grindstones.

[jackmode9316]

The level of expertise that can be found on the internet regarding the job of a law enforcement officer is amazing. Especially considering most of the experts have zero training or experience in the field of law enforcement.
Are you trying to argue that LEO's never overstep their authority? You really don't need "expertise" or "training" to experience that. I have heard time and time again about some of the Denver PD pulling this kind of crap. The amount of denial with this kind of sxxt is sickening.

[honkylips]

I have heard time and time again about some of the Denver PD pulling this kind of crap. The amount of denial with this kind of sxxt is sickening.

And time and time again, the public is most often privy to only one side of the story, yet make judgements as though fully enlightened.

[AK545Man]

We used to do it all the time when I was working in the feds.

[GunTroll]

And time and time again, the public is most often privy to only one side of the story, yet make judgements as though fully enlightened.
The burden of proof falls on the cops!

[HunterCO]

The burden of proof falls on the cops!


Tell that to the judge and let me know how far you get!

[Irving]

if an officer comes to the door and you open it it can be considered an invitation and they dont need consent or a warrant.

Denver PD may not have the best reputation, but it's not so bad to justify that you just confused them with vampires.

[GunTroll]

Tell that to the judge and let me know how fare you get!

Um, I was at court yesterday and thats what the judge told a guy who was defending himself against a traffic violation.

Not to mention the whole innocent until proven guilty thing?????

[AK545Man]

Some people just can't fathom that law enforcement isn't always there to help. Super patriots kill me.

[HunterCO]

Um, I was at court yesterday and thats what the judge told a guy who was defending himself against a traffic violation.

Not to mention the whole innocent until proven guilty thing?????

LMFAO you sir have never been to court much less delt with the legal system on the recieving end. LOL

[GunTroll]

LMFAO you sir have never been to court much less delt with the legal system on the recieving end. LOL

You Sir have no clue about anything about me. May I suggest you refrain from any further comments directed toward myself.

[M2MG]

We used to do it all the time when I was working in the feds.

Did you really just admit to violating the civil rights of citizens "all the time" while under color of law as a Federal Agent?

[Bailey Guns]

Are you trying to argue that LEO's never overstep their authority?

How about keeping the conversation in context? Of course some law enforcement officers sometimes overstep their authority. But that's not the sole issue nor was it what prompted me to make the comment I did. The issue to which I was speaking is the utter lack of knowledge possessed by the average citizen regarding law enforcement training and procedures as well as a lack of understanding of the 4th Amendment as it relates to search and seizure. And, furthermore, how these same people who don't understand these issues freely pass out wrong information on the internet in an attempt to further their own agendas. Then they get their panties in a twist when someone calls them out on it.


You really don't need "expertise" or "training" to experience that. I have heard time and time again about some of the Denver PD pulling this kind of crap.

No, you don't need "expertise" or "training" to experience or to have an opinion on many things. But if you're going to be taken seriously in a conversation, especially with those who do have "expertise" and "training", it helps.

It's nice to see you're admitting that you've never experienced misconduct by a Denver PD officer firsthand, even though you've "heard" it happens all the time.


The amount of denial with this kind of sxxt is sickening.

So is the amount of exaggeration regarding police misconduct. And on the flip-side, I know it might come as a surprise to you but people often lie to, or about, cops. In my 15 year LE career (long-since over, I might add) almost every person I came in contact with that was suspected of wrongdoing lied to me about something. Regardless of how "red-handed" they'd been caught.

Dishonesty, misconduct, bad behavior...call it what you will. It isn't the exclusive domain of police officers.

To AK545Man:

You started this thread with a vague story implying an illegal search by police officers. A search, I might add, of which you admitted you had no first-hand knowledge or, at a minimum, both sides of the story. That was followed up by a little chest-beating about how things would have been different had it been your home.
Then you have the nerve to say this (implying misconduct by you "all the time" while you were some sort of federal law enforcement agent):

We used to do it all the time when I was working in the feds.
...and then this.


Some people just can't fathom that law enforcement isn't always there to help. Super patriots kill me.

I really don't even know how to respond to that. Especially given your story of alleged misconduct by police towards your family.

And, before anyone asks, I've been on the receiving end of what can happen when a citizen accused of a crime lies about police behavior. I was accused of misconduct by someone I arrested that resulted in a 7 day trial in federal court with me as the defendant. As for me, my part was easy as all I had to do was tell the truth. The complainant and his family weren't so lucky because they had told so many lies that keeping them straight became a real problem. Fortunately, the jury saw through the BS and the young man that chose to lie about me got stuck with a very substantial financial judgment for costs and attorney fees. Mom and dad's (both convicted felons, BTW) little get-rich-quick scheme didn't quite work out like they planned.

So I'm sure you'll see why I get just a little irritated when people start painting LE officers in general with the broad brush of misconduct.

[jackmode9316]

It's nice to see you're admitting that you've never experienced misconduct by a Denver PD officer firsthand, even though you've "heard" it happens all the time.

Actually thats your assumption. I mentioned that I hear about it time and time again, that doesn't mean that I have never experienced it myself. Believe it or not, I trust my experience above what I hear. But seriously if I am hearing the same things that happened to me, maybe just maybe there is some truth in what I am hearing.

With that said, I think I probably jumped the gun(for the most part) on my comment towards you and maybe took it a little too personal.

For the record, I dont think that all or even most LEO's are crooked or pull this b/s. I definitly don't want that to be the message I am trying to promote.

[Elhuero]

history has shown, and this thread bears out, that time and time again unless a LEO does something drastically bad and/or gets caught red handed his comrades will walk the blue line and defend him to the bitter end.

Police are either the fearless and valiant protectors that run into danger rather than away, taking upon themselves a burden that the rest of us can only imagine... OR ... regular folks with the same struggles and problems as anyone else, just trying get by so give them a break whydontcha.

(whichever definition is most convenient at the time)

and don't forget... anyone who has a less than worshipftul attitude towards police secretly always wanted to be one but just could never make the cut, and have to vent their frustration for their sad and unfulfilled lives by badmouthing those indomitable protectors that can do no wrong!

(the argument that is invariably used to counter any anti-LEO comments on message boards)

God bless the good cops and keep them safe. The others, hopefully, will stub their toes really hard on something very soon.

[Bailey Guns]

Hey, jackmode, this is an online forum. I may be passionate in my feelings about many things but I don't get too worked up over mine or the passionate feelings of others.

I appreciate your comments and experiences and I also understand that it's sometimes hard to get your point across to others without the benefit of tone of voice, expressions, etc...

I'm OK with what others have said. That's what these discussions are all about. I'm just trying to point out that there are differing sides to all debates.

[Bailey Guns]

Elhuero...

You forgot, "All cops are just little punks who got beat up in school and only became cops so they'd have the badge and gun and could exact some measure of revenge for what they suffered in their formative years."

It's kinda like all the tough guys out there who loudly proclaim their intentions of kickin' the cop's ass who arrested them after the handcuffs have been put on and they've been safely stuffed into the back of a patrol car.

[AK545Man]

1.I'm telling you that 'we' did it when I worked for DHS. Not I specifically. Pay attention to the words.

2. If it was my house it would've been different. I won't retract that either.

3. And I feel as though my "super patriots" comment is warranted. There are way too many who close a blind eye to things simply because they can't believe it.

Perhaps you're one of those?

Not accusing, just asking.

[ChunkyMonkey]

http://officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Scuffle-Between-Oklahoma-Troopers--Medic-Caught-on-Tape/1$46834

LEO vs. EMT [ROFL1]

Guys, keep in mind, just like lawyers, stock brokers, bankers, accountants, or any other professional groups, LEOs are humans like you and I. Some departments have great selection process and superb training while others are under budgeted and down right corrupted. I typically blame bad LEOs' conduct on the department. That's why bad LEOs come in group! I refuse to believe that you can generalize the whole group the way some of the posting suggested. [Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

1.I'm telling you that 'we' did it when I worked for DHS. Not I specifically. Pay attention to the words.

Or perhaps you need to learn the language and meaning of certain words. If you don't know what the word means, my suggestion would be don't use it. You said "we" in the context of you and others. I'm failing to see how what you said could realistically be interpreted any other way.

Def: we (whttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif)pron.1. Used by the speaker or writer to indicate the speaker or writer along with another or others as the subject:
2. Used to refer to people in general, including the speaker or writer:


2. If it was my house it would've been different. I won't retract that either.

If you say so. Though in reality you don't know what would have happened. Maybe, had it been your home, the reasoning for the officers being there would have been clear and you might have understood their motivations. Or maybe you would have been an ass and got yourself thrown in jail. You just don't know for sure despite your internet bravado.


3. And I feel as though my "super patriots" comment is warranted. There are way too many who close a blind eye to things simply because they can't believe it.

Well good for you. I oftentimes "feel" people resort to name-calling when they can't express themselves in logical terms and emotion is all they've got. Or they heard it somewhere else and it sounded good.


Perhaps you're one of those?

Perhaps. Or perhaps I believe that you're offering grand generalizations and stereotypes based on other factors and you can't believe (or "feel") that you might be wrong.


Not accusing, just asking.

Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say.

[AK545Man]

Generalizations. Pulling out definitions to belittle, etc.

I think your descriptions of me sound more like you than me.

Thanks for the internet bravado comment. I had a good laugh on that one. What this whole thing has turned into is you want to be seen as the knowledgeable one here because you used to be an l.e.o.

That's fine and I'm sure you were a decent one because like I've always said there are good ones.

However saying I didn't express myself clearly so I resorted to name calling is ridiculous. I'm not going to go into the things that happened in DHS because there's no reason to. What would me telling all of stories do? Nothing.

I'm also not going to try and dispute with you how exactly it would've went down if it would've been my house. You make it as though I'm saying I would've went for the shotgun and had a Waco happen. That's your ex-law enforcement side still lingering I think. I simply said that I couldn't comment in a positive way and it would have been different.

There's been plenty of times where l.e.o's have been great. There's also been times after I stopped working for the DHS that I've had bad run-ins with police. And yes some people in America still believe everything in the books and don't believe that things can be as f***** up as they are sometimes.

I'm simply saying. Anyway I like discussion and I'm not mad so I hope you're not.

[AK545Man]

Also, I used 'we' in the proper context. If I was in the organization, I wouldn't say 'they'.

[GunTroll]

Or perhaps you need to learn the language and meaning of certain words. If you don't know what the word means, my suggestion would be don't use it. You said "we" in the context of you and others. I'm failing to see how what you said could realistically be interpreted any other way.

Def: we (whttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/emacr.gif)pron.1. Used by the speaker or writer to indicate the speaker or writer along with another or others as the subject:
2. Used to refer to people in general, including the speaker or writer:



If you say so. Though in reality you don't know what would have happened. Maybe, had it been your home, the reasoning for the officers being there would have been clear and you might have understood their motivations. Or maybe you would have been an ass and got yourself thrown in jail. You just don't know for sure despite your internet bravado.



Well good for you. I oftentimes "feel" people resort to name-calling when they can't express themselves in logical terms and emotion is all they've got. Or they heard it somewhere else and it sounded good.



Perhaps. Or perhaps I believe that you're offering grand generalizations and stereotypes based on other factors and you can't believe (or "feel") that you might be wrong.



Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say.

What is all this crap? Since LE didn't work out for you maybe you could be a teacher or something. Condescending a bit you think!?

And AK guy...you'll find lots like this here. Call em' out every time as you are already doing![Alrigh]


http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/bcnd3_frame_001.jpg
Um tasty!

[jackmode9316]

It's kinda like all the tough guys out there who loudly proclaim their intentions of kickin' the cop's ass who arrested them after the handcuffs have been put on and they've been safely stuffed into the back of a patrol car.
I thought only drunks and children did that? .

[AK545Man]

Mostly. lol


p.s. Some crack-heads too.

[Fal Grunt]

I also think, that in a lot of cases, people will essentially open the door, basically invite them in, LEO's search, etc. etc. Then after the fact the homeowner is pissed off (of course) does some research/talks to people and realizes that they didn't HAVE to get searched. No sympathy for those that learn AFTER the fact. Learn your rights, exercise them, and you will have my support. If the father had stepped out, closed the door and politely stated he doesn't consent to searches, and the beat him down with nightsticks and kicked his door in shouting "this is the police" then you would have my full support. Instances like these are like thinking of a good comeback twelve hours after an argument is already over. You might want to act like it matters, but it doesn't count.

People act like its LEO's responsibility to teach them their rights. "Ma'am, can we come in? We would like to search your house to see if you have any meth making products, but did you know by the bill of rights you can tell us you don't consent to a search and we would actually have to get a warrant? Oh? we cant come in now?"

Of COURSE they work off peoples ignorance. That doesn't make them bad LEO. That just makes the people NAIVE - their own fault. No cookies for the uneducated.

So its OK for me to screw someone on a car deal because they are not educated? So its OK for me to take money from old people because they are not educated. So its OK for me to take advantage of you, selling you a gun, because YOU are un-educated?

I fail to see how it is OK for Police to take advantage of people based on their ignorance. I've had my dealing with the police, in one, they took advantage of an un-educated guy and put him in jail, sadly on my behalf. When I questioned the officer about his methods he asked what my problem was and if I wanted anything done about the situation. He abused the system and took advantage of someones ignorance.

I'm all about people educating themselves, to protect themselves FROM being taken advantage of by Police that would.

-myers

[4kilo12]

I didn't read any of the middle but I gather he was innocent yet consented to the search?

No means no [ROFL1]

Hint from an insider if the police are there to talk to you ABOUT you, they are not really trying to help you out regardless of what they say 9/10 times unless you know them....


And DPD entered his home and he is alive he is a lucky guy [Neene1]


Just kidding DPD yous guys GTG for the most part

I also am going to let another secret out :
LE at the Fed/State/County/Local Level are humans [Help] I know and take your industry I bet at least 20% of your coworkers don't fully know how to do their job exactly right, occasionaly make mistakes, and some are just assholes.. There is no job that has perfect people if 20% of your population are assholes than about 20% of your Doctors,GarbageMed,Peace Officers are going to be assholes....

[ChunkyMonkey]

So its OK for me to take advantage of you, selling you a gun, because YOU are un-educated?

-myers

I agree w/ your concern but what maybe un-ethical is still legal. I am all for buyer beware rather than having govt. passing more laws and rules attempting to micro manage our daily live.

[AK545Man]

4kilo12 I agree with what you're saying for the most part. This whole post went south of cheese. It was meant to just be a discussion on why this happened and what were the legal and illegal issues behind it.

And I agree that for the most part Denver PD is not that bad. There's always gonna be shitty people in every job. I had a warehouse gig once and we could've easily gotten rid of people.

In the end whether or not he gave them what they thought was consent it still just bothers me that it can happen. And it'll probably happen again.

[4kilo12]

4kilo12 I agree with what you're saying for the most part. This whole post went south of cheese. It was meant to just be a discussion on why this happened and what were the legal and illegal issues behind it.

And I agree that for the most part Denver PD is not that bad. There's always gonna be shitty people in every job. I had a warehouse gig once and we could've easily gotten rid of people.

In the end whether or not he gave them what they thought was consent it still just bothers me that it can happen. And it'll probably happen again.


It boils down to this by nature LE comes in contact with a bunch of scum, some in the middle and some truly brilliant criminals. Most do have a very cynical outlook on life and are used to what I call playing the game of life.

The system most directly benefits the Justice system as in Judges,CA/DA,PD,Private Attny's. Now this is going to sound incredibly opinionated because it is......

The current state of the game is such that frequent customers are treated better because they are repeat business, and in some cases the oops I F@#$ed up once get a much rougher ride than those that are used to playing the game because they are scared, don't know the rules of the game.

In every deputy/officer there was a brilliant criminal who played the I am a decent guy can you help me out here trick and the deputy went for it. Many paid with their life for that the ones who didn't develop a natural distrust of people in general, is this fair NO is this good NO........

without rambling on too much,
Of course LE is going to ask permission to search/enter if their gut feel indicates something stinks, and trust me if they have in their opinion solid PC or (this is iffy with me) RS to enter/open/look they will phrase the question much differently and at that point they are not asking they are just gathering better evidence for the CA\DA to work with. Now if it is truly phrased as a question then they are hoping the criminal is dumb enough to say yes and most of the time they do say yes.

If you don't want to consent and that is your right. The best course of action is this, don't qualify it or justify. Simply: "I do not consent to a search,am I free to go?" Those are the only words you want to say if you don't consent anything else like it's not cause i have anything to hide, or brownshirt motherf@#$er just are words with no legal bearing that could help the officer but will not help you. Polite/Firm/Short and to the point....

Will the officer try and call your bluff, many times yes but in the end if you have not provided RS/PC the Watch Commander will tell the officer let em go, I have heard this a lot through my own radio back in the day a lot. And in this state at the State and County level more so than others you will find people working LE to have the highest integerty, and even though they KNOW said person is guilty as sin, they can't dishonor themselves and lie under oath that they had PC/RS to go ahead and continue the search when they didn't. Not excluding or badmouthing any city folk...



I don't subscribe to the nothing to hide nothing to worry about mindset nr do I suscribe to the Die Oinker you can't talk to me at all crowd...
As it is with most of life it's kind of a grey area. Each interaction is unique and barring UOF (and people make mistakes there to, but because the stakes are so high) people make mistakes, have bad days:
Doctors,Plumbers,Manual Labor, Astronauts, BUT nowhere are the stakes as high and the choice that could save your life or haunt your life happens so fast than LE and the .mil and the people making these choices are not very well compensated when compared to private sector salary packages.

It boils down to you get what you pay for
and due in large to the intergety of the people working for the local LE you get a WHOLE lot more than you pay for because of their dedication and honor.

I am not crying about pay, I have not been active in that role for quite q while, but if everyone involved would broaden their mindset they are people just like you and me LE and criminal alike all are humans, and with that come human traits good and bad...


ramble off

PS The best way to avoid a search is to have current reg/plates/ins, obey traffic laws and don't hang with known criminals. Your chances of the lottery and being searched are about the same if you don't invite LE into your life. In most areas of this state there are just too many priority calls holding for fishing trips

[ChunkyMonkey]

Can someone summarize the previous post? [Coffee]

[4kilo12]

Can someone summarize the previous post? [Coffee]




1.don't write a reply while you are on the phone with tech support and IM'ing a co worker and expect it to even appear sane much less understandable.
2. Don't invite the man into your life, if you do here is how to nicely ask him to leave your life.
3. Da Po Po are people too,

[GunTroll]

In a way I'm with Foxtrot on this one. Got to know even if you would think the "bad" guy should tell you.

[AK545Man]

That goes back to whole comment I made a few pages back where I was talking about the people who are super stars and stripes but they don't know enough to protect their own ass because they believe things like that don't happen. It's a vicious cycle.

[AK545Man]

I wish y'all would've been there to see the look on the cop's face when he asked if I was carrying any weapons the other night.

I told him that I owned them but wasn't carrying any at the moment. Priceless.

[Fal Grunt]

Yes to car, yes to gun, no to old people (that is illegal). Why exactly should the government be your lord protector and savior? People have the ability to teach themselves. If they don't take the initiative, then why exactly should everybody have to be their Mommy and Daddy? If you don't know what a good deal is, should a gun seller be legally obligated to show you a receipt for his original purchase? Then why the hell should a LEO officer have to tell you to tell them that you don't consent to a search? While were at it, why don't we make it so prosecuting lawyers have to be the defense too, cause it obviously works out so well when your forced to work against yourself.

No sympathy for the uneducated. I wont screw you, I have morals.. but I'm not going to ride in and save your butt because you didn't do your research. Why should everyone else do your homework for you? That's "cheating" and it's also immoral. Uneducated buyers are just as much to blame as sellers ripping off for a product you know...

I'm sick and tired of the lazy culture of America, and that doesn't extend just to the physical side. Most American's have no desire to learn anything. They would rather vegetate their brains. They have a right to, but that comes with the responsibility (and fallout) that comes with it.

I don't know why my forum subscriptions don't work... seems I get one for every 6 or so posts.

My point had nothing to do with the government protecting you, or for that matter ANYONE protecting you. You mentioned morals... if you have morals, why would you be screwing someone? Why would you say it is OK to screw someone on a deal with a car or a gun?

I've met alot of stupid people in my life, but ya know what? I don't think to myself, hey, this guy is a moron, I'm gonna take advantage of him! Why the heck would you think that was OK?

My point is the US Government, the Police Department, as was being discussed, should NOT be taking advantage of those who do not know their rights BECAUSE they do not know their rights. In the same way I do not believe it is right for a car dealership to lie to a customer or a gun shop to lie to a customer. Has nothing to do with government regulation or anyone being someones mommy or daddy. Again... you mentioned morality but you are ok with this? As long as someone is ignorant it is no longer immoral?

If you guys are all OK with the government screwing people because of their ignorance then then I wish you a happy and long life. And please... do not ask myself or anyone else for sympathy when you get screwed.

-myers

[AK545Man]

If you guys are all OK with the government screwing people because of their ignorance then then I wish you a happy and long life. And please... do not ask myself or anyone else for sympathy when you get screwed.

-myers


Word.