RE: firing your doctor over questions they ask.

[Alf Tanner]

I was recently looking for a new primary care physician. I have not had one regularly for a few years. After basically throwing a dart at a google search I started picking out general practitioners who listed some of the things I was concerned about and calling their offices and asking if they were accepting my insurance and new patients.

The first place I found was Lakewood Family Medicine. They seemed well organized and had their patient paperwork available. After a brief conversation with a nurse I set up an appointment, downloaded their paperwork and sent them my insurance information.

I was very surprised when their patient paperwork listed questions about kids in the house, whether or not you owned firearms, and whether you kept them locked up or not. I called back and asked them very politely why they asked those questions. After a brief pause the lady who answered the phone said something along the lines of ''you can put down whatever you want but its something we like to know"[Mad].

Sorry, none of your effing business, please destroy my information immediately you're not authorized under HIPAA to use any of my protected health information or any personally identifiable information as of this exact second.

[ray1970]

They only ask those questions so that when they determine you are mentally deficient they can report you to the proper authorities so that your firearms can be confiscated so you can't harm yourself or anyone else. It's OK. Just answer honestly.

[facepalm]

(seriously, you'll probably run into the same thing at just about any health care place these days. Just answer "no" to the part about owning firearms and continue with your business.)

[jerrymrc]

My office does not ask those questions but when the son took the grandchildren to another place they did. He told them it was none of their business. I know that some places it is SOP to try and get this info out of the children. Never leave your child's side during an appointment.

[HoneyBadger]

The hardest part is explaining to your kids why you lie about owning guns, and why you told them to also lie about it when they are asked at the doctor's office or in school.

[Bailey Guns]

Several of the doctors and staff at the clinic I use carry concealed at work. I've never been asked that question anywhere, though.

[Double00]

They asked my 16yr old daughter about guns in the house. She told them "It's none of your business". I'm so proud!

[Graves]

Seems to be the norm now. I leave it blank; never an issue.

[Skully]

EXEMPLA Facilities don't ask, and the kids pediatrician has never asked I or the wife. I have the problem that my boys are very young and are never alone but they are very honest and would probably tell them Daddy and Mommy has many guns but they view it as a good thing. For example Camping; when ever we went for a hike they would ask mommy and I if I had my gun and our knives in case bears or mountain lions were around.

Ultimately I think it depends on who owns the pink slip to the facility.

[kidicarus13]

(Just answer "no" to the part about owning firearms and continue with your business.)


They asked my 16yr old daughter about guns in the house. She told them "It's none of your business". I'm so proud!

As good as it may make you feel to tell them "None of your f'n business!" a far better answer would be similar to Rays'. A simple NO does not attract suspicion while a "none of your business" indicates guns are probably present.

This may seem like splitting hairs in 2014 but could potentially have greater implications in the future if firearm ownership starts to become less acceptable. My $.02

[Skully]

As good as it may make you feel to tell them "None of your f'n business!" a far better answer would be similar to Rays'. A simple NO does not attract suspicion while a "none of your business" indicates guns are probably present.


I would concur with that thought ..................

[ray1970]

We have annual hearing tests at work. Every year you have to answer some questions. My favorite is "do you have any noisy hobbies? (Firearms, motorcycles, etc.)"

I have been answering "no" for over ten years. Even though I ride Harleys, dirt bikes, and ATVs and have been known to ocassionaly fire a firearm or two, I haven't lost any sleep over falsifying my answer.

[Great-Kazoo]

Back when CCW was issues by sheriffs (very rare) weld cty required a dr. sign off. Our (still use) did. Now where the kid went, i had to take her there one day. While waiting ,i noticed all the TELL US IF A FIREARM IS IN THE HOME propaganda shit. 12 hrs late she had a new pediatrician.

[Mtn.man]

We have annual hearing tests at work. Every year you have to answer some questions. My favorite is "do you have any noisy hobbies? (Firearms, motorcycles, etc.)"

I have been answering "no" for over ten years. Even though I ride Harleys, dirt bikes, and ATVs and have been known to ocassionaly fire a firearm or two, I haven't lost any sleep over falsifying my answer.

HUH, what???

[jerrymrc]

We have annual hearing tests at work. Every year you have to answer some questions. My favorite is "do you have any noisy hobbies? (Firearms, motorcycles, etc.)"

I have been answering "no" for over ten years. Even though I ride Harleys, dirt bikes, and ATVs and have been known to ocassionaly fire a firearm or two, I haven't lost any sleep over falsifying my answer.

I can look at your hearing test and tell if you are a shooter and if your right or left handed unless your hearing is totally gone. [Flower]

[kidicarus13]

I can look at your hearing test and tell if you are a shooter and if your right or left handed unless your hearing is totally gone. [Flower]

Perfect. Then there definitely is no need to tell doctors what our hobbies are :)

[BPTactical]

If it is not relative to my health care needs I don't answer the question.

[jerrymrc]

Perfect. Then there definitely is no need to tell doctors what are hobbies are :)

But normal docs never see it. Even using protection it will show up over time.
Ear shadow is a real effect for long gun shooters. Most indications are that the head provides up to a 15 dB shadow in high frequencies, so depending on the type of firearm and frequency of use, significant differential in hearing loss between ears could be expected. I performed a PubMed (www.pubmed.gov) search and found almost 300 research articles related to use of firearms and hearing loss. One study by Prosser, Tartari & Arsian (1988) looked at 133 railway workers who also hunted and compared them to 82 non-hunting co-workers. The workers who hunted were found to have greater hearing loss and this was typically in the ear that was contralateral to the muzzle of the firearm. A PubMed search will provide you with additional references.

Since the exposure is primarily impact/impulse, occupational exposure damage risk criteria is not applicable. According to Maj. Bob Eppens, Air Force audiologist (Hilltop Times, 10/21/2004), One shot from a .357 magnum pistol exposes the shooter to 165 decibels for 2 milliseconds, and is equivalent to 40 unprotected hours on the flightline. Other studies indicate that firearms yield peak sound pressure levels regularly exceeding 150 dB. Several websites show lists of firearms and their associated sound levels, including http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/hcp/NoiseLevels.aspx, which gives a good indication of the noise levels of a range of military equipment. Many audiologists refer to the asymmetry described in the question as shooters ear, with the ear nearest the muzzle blast showing significantly more hearing loss than the shadowed ear.

[Dave]

I can look at your hearing test and tell if you are a shooter and if your right or left handed unless your hearing is totally gone. [Flower]

What about hearing loss from military service? Pistols, rifles and the engines on helicopters aren't exactly quiet. One of my six service connected disabilities I get 0% for.

My most recent doctor's office doesn't ask that, and Kaiser never had it on their forms that I remember. But, I had a few of the vegan treehugger docs while I was with them that tried asking that. I just told each of them no. Same answer I gave the one bitch who kept trying to force MMJ on me for my neck pain after a couple of rear end car accidents. What part of "my employer would fire me for it" did she not understand?

[jerrymrc]

What about hearing loss from military service? Pistols, rifles and the engines on helicopters aren't exactly quiet. One of my six service connected disabilities I get 0% for.

My most recent doctor's office doesn't ask that, and Kaiser never had it on their forms that I remember. But, I had a few of the vegan treehugger docs while I was with them that tried asking that. I just told each of them no. Same answer I gave the one bitch who kept trying to force MMJ on me for my neck pain after a couple of rear end car accidents. What part of "my employer would fire me for it" did she not understand?

Depends on how bad it is. And I hear you on the MMJ. One of my doc's tried that years ago and was the same way. Look dear, I work for the DOD and get tested being in a medical facility......[beatdeadhorse]

[Alf Tanner]

The clinic I went to after that one was Denver Family Medicine I think it was called. They asked the same thing, I basically ignored it but I had to turn my back to the doc one time to close a door and I was wearing my ''shove gun control up your donkey" shirt. Either way, I think the reason I think it hit me so hard was that I worked in medicine for 10 years, and never thought about the questions we asked people on a daily basis. Being on the other side now while having a chip on my shoulder has caused me grief seeing how people can be treated by pretentious medical personnel

[buffalobo]

My doc ask me about guns during a recent check up. She asked where she could get a good deal on a G17 for a gift to her husband who wants to start shooting pistol matches.

Otherwise never been asked. Probably due to living in rural areas most of my life.

lobbed from my electronic ball and chain

[tmckay2]

people are way too paranoid

[jerrymrc]

people are way too paranoid

Yes and no. Here is why. All medical records are now electronic and accessible by my employer. Once everything is in place it will be real easy to cross them into a query to pull that info. I will leave it at that.

[bigshane]

More reasons why I feel it is ridiculous that health care/insurance has become synonymous with employment in the US. What started as a benefit, a perk, an extra, has gone horribly sideways and now employers are too much in everyone's life, not just their professional life, but all life.

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

Yes and no. Here is why. All medical records are now electronic and accessible by my government. Once everything is in place it will be real easy to cross them into a query to pull that info. I will leave it at that.

FIFY (unless that is your employer :p)

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

I generally just say no on questions like that. That set of questions isn't all though.......IMO a lot of process and people in the medical field have gotten out of line and are seriously overstepping some boundaries in privacy and authority. I felt like pressing charges on the clinic up here after my 9 year old daughter went in for a physical before summer camp. They were way out of line, I'll just leave it at that.

[MrPrena]

If they ask those retarded question which is totally irrelevant, I change physician. I will also write that crap online.
It is as stupid as "Do you have a baseball bat? Do you keep that inside the locker all the time?"

If 100% of physicians in US asks those questions, I would get a physician in different country. I know a gal who flew 12 hour to different country for Lupus treatment, because US doesn't have that specific meds.

[XC700116]

Strangely enough, I've never been asked but never worried about it much. Last year I had to bring the subject up with the surgeon that fixed up my collar bone, as to when i could safely start shooting again. He was cool with it and we got into a long discussion about hunting.

[jerrymrc]

FIFY (unless that is your employer :p)

I had it right the first time. [handbags]

[GunsRBadMMMMKay]

I had it right the first time. [handbags]


LOL I seen that..........

[Great-Kazoo]

people are way too paranoid


Yes and no. Here is why. All medical records are now electronic and accessible by my employer. Once everything is in place it will be real easy to cross them into a query to pull that info. I will leave it at that.

Ask Californians OR Ny'er (SAFE Act) It's allowed in NY to confiscate firearms IF a LE or person in the medical field BELIEVES you may be or pose a threat to other people.

While i do support removing people who show or present a danger to them self or others, from dangerous items.

My question / CONCERN is . With the medical profession , AMA etc, in favor of stricter gun laws. How does one prevent an over zealous person from reporting you?
The safe act is so vague, it bases confiscation upon said persons Perception of one with a gun.

My neighbor is a cop. We're in a rural area so shooting guns is ok, even the cop does it. One day you ask him (again) to keep his dogs off your property, or you'll contact animal control. Next thing you know mister casual neighbor feels as a gun owner, you possess a threat to the gen pop.
I don't believe it's a far fetched scenario and one that can, could happen anywhere. [TIN FOIL HAT OFF]

2013 article

California is the only U.S. state where law enforcement officials confiscate guns from the homes of individuals not legally permitted to own them. The program, which takes guns away from criminals and the mentally ill, is being heralded as a model for the nation.

Individuals who legally purchased guns but are now disqualified are identified by analysts who match gun sales back to 1996 with databases (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/02/19/California-law-permits-gun-confiscation/UPI-56131361281783/) listing criminal convictions, restraining orders and mental health detentions, UPI reports. Over the past five years, agents conducting twice-weekly sweeps have confiscated more than 10,000 guns.
However, there are still more than 19,700 individuals on the state's Armed Prohibited Persons list, and it would cost the state up to $50 million to hire more agents to catch up with the backlog, according to Attorney General Kamala Harris

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-12/california-seizes-guns-as-owners-lose-right-to-bear-arms.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/12/calif-gun-owner-who-says-she-admitted-herself-to-mental-hospital-for-medication-adjustment-has-guns-confiscated/

Such was recently the case for one woman, who had been in the hospital voluntarily for mental illness last year that she says was due to medication she was taking. Lynette Phillips of Upland, Calif., told TheBlaze in a phone interview Monday she had purchased a gun years ago for her husband, David, as a present. That gun, as well as two others registered to her law-abiding husband (who does not have a history of felonies or mental illness), were seized last Tuesday.
“My husband is upset that they took the right from us that should never have been taken, Phillips told TheBlaze.
But according to the state of California, that doesn’t matter.
“The prohibited person can’t have access to a firearm” regardless of who the registered owner is, Michelle Gregory, a spokeswoman for the attorney general’s office


http://www.omh.ny.gov/omhweb/safe_act/

http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/mental-health-faq

The NY SAFE Act is designed to remove firearms from those who seek to do harm to themselves or others. This means keeping the minority of individuals with serious mental illness who may be dangerous away from access to firearms. This law should not dissuade any individual from seeking mental health services they need. [ROFL3]

[tmckay2]

Yes and no. Here is why. All medical records are now electronic and accessible by my employer. Once everything is in place it will be real easy to cross them into a query to pull that info. I will leave it at that.

its a standard question to try to weed out mentally ill patients who also have guns. if you schizophrenic patient says yes to that question, its worth looking into. don't have mental illness? say no you don't have any guns. you aren't required by law to answer that question truthfully. the atf isn't going to come to your house and check if you were honest. they are hoping people with mental illness will accidentally disclose that they do in fact have guns, in which case intervention might be required. i have the government as much as everyone else, but this isn't a conspiracy to take everyone's guns. its a minor step taken to try to take guns from mentally incompetent people so mass shootings don't occur. don't like the question, just answer no. its simple.

[Great-Kazoo]

its a standard question to try to weed out mentally ill patients who also have guns. if you schizophrenic patient says yes to that question, its worth looking into. don't have mental illness? say no you don't have any guns. you aren't required by law to answer that question truthfully. the atf isn't going to come to your house and check if you were honest. they are hoping people with mental illness will accidentally disclose that they do in fact have guns, in which case intervention might be required. i have the government as much as everyone else, but this isn't a conspiracy to take everyone's guns. its a minor step taken to try to take guns from mentally incompetent people so mass shootings don't occur. don't like the question, just answer no. its simple.

The flip side is no medical folks are reporting over Hipa disclosure .

[sabot_round]

What do you bet, a few years down the road, their will be "studies" and "MSM news" that reports that in scientific studies countrywide, only 1.5% of households own guns, a dramatic decrease in the last decade - PROOF THAT AMERICA HATES GUNS AND POLITICIANS NEED TO IGNORE THE 2A!

Source: Surveys taken of fathers in pediatric offices between May and August 2018. Scientifically verified by the office of health care and money wasting, under the executive office of Hillary Clinton. Further audited by the reanimated frankenstein, high priestess Diana Feinstien. Numbers reflect a margin of error of +/- 100%. Some figures may have been estimated by medical doctors, taken from measurements of the rectum of respective patients. All hanging chads were counted as "No gunz". Non-english speakers, or those speaking southern accents, or those speaking west virginian, who could not be understood, were assumed to have no guns. Those refusing to answer were assumed to refuse to answer because they were scared people would find out they have no guns and would attack them. Therefore, these counted as "no" answers.

Well played Sir, well played!! [Beer]

[Great-Kazoo]

What do you bet, a few years down the road, their will be "studies" and "MSM news" that reports that in scientific studies countrywide, only 1.5% of households own guns, a dramatic decrease in the last decade - PROOF THAT AMERICA HATES GUNS AND POLITICIANS NEED TO IGNORE THE 2A!

Source: Surveys taken of fathers in pediatric offices between May and August 2018. Scientifically verified by the office of health care and money wasting, under the executive office of Hillary Clinton. Further audited by the reanimated frankenstein, high priestess Diana Feinstien. Numbers reflect a margin of error of +/- 100%. Some figures may have been estimated by medical doctors, taken from measurements of the rectum of respective patients. All hanging chads were counted as "No gunz". Non-english speakers, or those speaking southern accents, or those speaking west virginian, who could not be understood, were assumed to have no guns. Those refusing to answer were assumed to refuse to answer because they were scared people would find out they have no guns and would attack them. Therefore, these counted as "no" answers.

By 2018 i'll forgot what i did in , 2018 ;)

[Mtn.man]

I think the world is supposed to end by 2020, so no worries.

[Aloha_Shooter]

As good as it may make you feel to tell them "None of your f'n business!" a far better answer would be similar to Rays'. A simple NO does not attract suspicion while a "none of your business" indicates guns are probably present.

This may seem like splitting hairs in 2014 but could potentially have greater implications in the future if firearm ownership starts to become less acceptable. My $.02

It depends on what the OP wants to do. Lying on the form gets them off your back but they'll keep asking those questions and (mis)using the answers. Knowing they have lost business over the question ... may lead them to stop asking the question.


I can look at your hearing test and tell if you are a shooter and if your right or left handed unless your hearing is totally gone. [Flower]

We-e-e-ell ... I get what you are saying about imbalanced effects (and how that shows the damage is from shooting rather than riding motorcycles, working as a blacksmith, etc.) bu-u-u-ut ... my last hearing test (2 months ago) was on the high side of normal and balanced so you might have a little bit of difficulty picking mine out from a crowd of non-shooters ... [Coffee]


people are way too paranoid

Let's see, we have definitive proof that people in the IRS were misusing tax information, misusing official powers for partisan political purposes, and doing things they didn't actually have official powers to do. We know Obamacare placed medical records and enforcement of healthcare in the sterling (!?!) hands of the IRS. It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.


Yes and no. Here is why. All medical records are now electronic and accessible by my employer. Once everything is in place it will be real easy to cross them into a query to pull that info. I will leave it at that.

... and again, I repeat myself ... the IRS has already taken illicit steps to cross-reference databases and provide confidential tax information to agencies and organizations with no need or authorization for it.

[Zundfolge]

As it is right now, lying to your doctor about your firearm ownership is not a crime. But once government is fully in control of our healthcare (and they're 90% there now) it will be.

IIRC Lying on ANY government form is considered a crime (often, if not always, a felony).

Better to fight this now when it's just an annoyance and get laws in place like the one in Florida that was just held up by the courts to FORBID doctors from asking you and/or your minor children ANY questions about firearms ownership.

[newracer]

A better answer is to say "that is a boundary violation" that will shut them up quick.

[GilpinGuy]

I believe Florida recently passed a law making it illegal for docs to ask this question. Good for them.

Edit: Zundfolg beat me to it. Here's one source:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/829023

[bellavite1]

WheatridgeInternal:
most of the staff shoots and carry (this comes from one of thei doctors and I have personally met one of their nurses with her family at Silver Bullet...)

[Ridge]

I simply checked no and asked my doctor why they ask. They explained it to me, and we both moved on with our lives.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

As it is right now, lying to your doctor about your firearm ownership is not a crime. But once government is fully in control of our healthcare (and they're 90% there now) it will be.

IIRC Lying on ANY government form is considered a crime (often, if not always, a felony).

Better to fight this now when it's just an annoyance and get laws in place like the one in Florida that was just held up by the courts to FORBID doctors from asking you and/or your minor children ANY questions about firearms ownership.


One thing I've learned is that patients lie.
Do you exercise daily? Do you eat right? Do you make sure to never add salt to your food? Do you ever smoke? Ever drink?

Yes/Yes/Yes/No/No regardless of who is in the office.

Do you have weapons? Wear your seatbelt?

Of course not and of course sir.

[Alf Tanner]

update to this situation. Although I never saw the doctor, or set foot in their office, I'm now getting creditor notices about my ''outstanding balance'' from their office. I guess that's what I get for working in the oilfield and being gone for 6 weeks at a time: the opportunity not to respond to fake charges

[Artema]

You have to see, however, you can lie about those things to suggest you're in good health. It is brainwashing people to think not owning a gun is as important as eating an appropriate amount of sodium and drinking moderately. Setting up the next generation's beliefs is key.

[Snowman78]

a little off topic, I need to find a good male doctor up north. Thornton, Westminster, northgleen, ect. Any recommendations?