View Full Version : Cops kill man playing with BB gun at Walmart
Zundfolge
08-11-2014, 13:03
Not sure who's at fault here but at this point it looks to me like the shootee got hisself shot by being dumb ... that is unless the officers that shot him didn't give him an opportunity to drop the "gun".
source (http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/07/cops-kill-man-in-wal-mart-carrying-an-air-rifle-that-he-might-have-planned-to-buy/)
Cops Kill Man In Wal-Mart Carrying An Air Rifle That He Might Have Planned To Buy
Posted By Chuck Ross On 3:35 PM 08/07/201
A man who was carrying an air rifle in an Ohio Wal-Mart told the police officers that fatally shot him that the gun was “not real,” according to a family member.
John Crawford was shot by police Tuesday evening at a Beavercreek store. The Ohio attorney general’s office announced Thursday that he was merely carrying a brand of air rifle that Wal-Mart sells.
Another shopper, 37-year-old Angela Williams, collapsed and died as she scrambled to get away after police fired at Crawford.
The shooting occurred after police responded to 911 calls about a man carrying a rifle. In one of those calls, which was released by police, a Wal-Mart shopper told emergency dispatchers that it looked like the man — later identified as Crawford — was trying to load the rifle and that he had pointed it at two children, WHIO reported (http://www.whio.com/news/news/report-shooting-beavercreek-wal-mart/ngwTS/).
The 911 caller’s wife said that Crawford was on the phone and that he was messing with the gun. She said that after police ordered Crawford to put down the unidentified weapon, “I heard two shots after I saw him turn. He still had the weapon in his hand.”
But Crawford’s family says that there is no way he intended to harm anyone that night.
LeeCee Johnson, who has two children with Crawford and is pregnant with a third, said that she was on the phone with him while the incident unfolded.
She told the Dayton Daily News (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/man-police-shot-in-walmart-killed-over-fake-gun-fa/ngw77/) that Crawford told officers that the gun he was carrying was “not real.”
“We was just talking,” said Johnson. “He said he was at the video games playing videos and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were.”
“And the next thing I know, he said ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him.”
Johnson, who had not yet told Crawford that she was pregnant with their third child, said that she could hear him crying and screaming.
Beavercreek police chief Dennis Evers stood by his officers’ actions, saying that they fired after Crawford failed to comply with their commands to drop the air rifle. He asked Ohio attorney general Mike DeWine and the Bureau of Criminal Investigation to open an investigation into the shooting.
In a statement Thursday, DeWine provided the latest details.
“BCI Investigators on the case report witnesses say the man was carrying a weapon Tuesday night inside a Beavercreek store,” reads DeWine’s statement.
“The weapon was an MK-177 (.177 caliber) BB/Pellet Rifle, manufactured by Crosman. It is known as a ‘variable pump air rifle.’”
Reached by The Daily Caller, a spokeswoman for DeWine said she could not yet comment on whether the air rifle was from the Wal-Mart or if Crawford had brought it in himself.
But an Internet search of Wal-Mart’s website shows that it does indeed sell Crosman MK-177 air rifles (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Crosman-MK-177-.17-Caliber-Air-Rifle/23795252). The price is listed at $100.83.
“He does not own (a rifle-like weapon),” Lamon Brown, Crawford’s cousin, told the Dayton Daily News before DeWine’s office announced the brand of rifle Crawford was carrying. “We think it was a toy.”
The family has contacted the NAACP as well as the National Action Network. Crawford, 22, was black.
The two officers involved in the shooting have been placed on paid administrative leave during the investigation.
This is what the BB gun looked like (so I'm thinking if I saw him I'd probably have drawn down on the guy myself).
http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/zoomed/Crosman-MK-177-pump-rifle-177-tan-kit_CR-30115-Kit_zm03.jpg
Also, apparently a bystander died as a result of the event (not sure if she was hit by the police or just dropped of a heart attack or something).
SuperiorDG
08-11-2014, 13:26
The panic being caused by these witnesses is getting out of hand.
Bitter Clinger
08-11-2014, 13:28
The panic being caused by these witnesses is getting out of hand.
Thisx1000. I seen this story a day or two ago, waiting for video to come out, if the PD ordered him to drop it and he did not, as they claim, his fault.
Why'd they gotta say the victim was Black? Were the cops White? A rhetorical question, but still. Gather the facts. The rest is BS.
While usually I'd jump on board people for being dumb. And if it was any kind of extended belligerentness I'd agree. Sometimes I dont wonder if they are so quick to jump the gun and drop him he doesnt get more than a 5-10 second window if that. Consider it as a non gun owner. Might be more confused since he knows he isn't armed and doesn't get the seriousness of having anything vaguely gunlike in front of a cop.
speedysst
08-11-2014, 13:41
Plus I also love how the family contacted the NAACP and National Action Network so they can get the national publicity they so much deserve.
Why'd they gotta say the victim was Black? Were the cops White? A rhetorical question, but still. Gather the facts. The rest is BS.
Chad4000
08-11-2014, 14:29
The panic being caused by these witnesses is getting out of hand.
NO SHIT... exactly
stoner01
08-11-2014, 14:33
Will anonymous demand justice for him too?
RblDiver
08-11-2014, 14:35
Will anonymous demand justice for him too?
So long as there's looting "for justice" to be had...
Bailey Guns
08-11-2014, 15:49
Sometimes I dont wonder if they are so quick to jump the gun and drop him he doesnt get more than a 5-10 second window if that. Consider it as a non gun owner.
Uh, no. If the cops were pointing guns at me yelling, "Drop the gun!", it's not gonna take me 5-10 seconds to figure out what I should do. My guess is he wanted to convince them the gun wasn't real. They, on the other hand, convinced him their guns were real.
Sounds like the other lady died from the stress of the incident. In my opinion, as it relates to the open carry types we're hearing so much about, if this doesn't convince you openly carrying a long gun in an urban area is a bad idea, nothing will. Regardless of your rights or whether or not it's legal.
And you can bet the family/baby momma sees nothing but $$ signs in this. Guy wasn't even cold before they're contacting the NAACP.
It will be interesting to see the facts come out on this one, obviously there will be plenty of camera angles and probably witnesses. If a bystander was shot and killed that adds some serious doubt as to the actions of the officers. If the guy didn't comply and pointed the BB gun at the officers then they will probably be covered.
tough spot to be in. Especially since the toys of today look extremely real. Definitely doesn't it make it any easier on the cops.
There are two things I would like to say. If I see somebody with a firearm, they are either walking with it or using it. If a guy is walking around with a firearm, he is likely just open carry; keep alert as always and go about your business. A lot of people and the police in this case are paranoid.
The second thing I would like to say relates to a personal experience and a little more sensitive so I hope I word this correctly. A really good friend of mine is black, and one disagreement we had was about police and how they respond. So, we were driving along in her brother's truck and the lights came on behind us. She got off the road in a dark area, other cruisers came up, she only cracked the window and was very evasive. Next thing I know there were five cruisers there. She was stopped for an expired tag and now we were both out of the car because the stop was suspicious. When we were driving away, I got the "see what happens when you are black." My answer was, "see what happens when you don't cooperate." It seems like there is just an unwillingness to cooperate, and it results in a lot of stupid escalations
It all comes down to this: COOPERATE! Unless you just want to see the SHTF, do as you are asked and clean up any legal issues later. This whole thing sounds like a pretty stupid loss of life. Stupid guy for not doing as he was told and stupid cops for not reading the situation better. It sounds like an all around stupid event and now there are three kids without a dad along with a bystander's death.
Edit: I agree a lot with Bailey on this. I don't see the point in carrying long guns in an urban environment. All this movement is going to do is result in yet another ban so that when there is actually a need for it at some point, it will be illegal. Personally, I have no desire to be noticed and I prefer to just blend into my surroundings.
Great-Kazoo
08-11-2014, 16:20
It will be interesting to see the facts come out on this one, obviously there will be plenty of camera angles and probably witnesses. If a bystander was shot and killed that adds some serious doubt as to the actions of the officers. If the guy didn't comply and pointed the BB gun at the officers then they will probably be covered.
tough spot to be in. Especially since the toys of today look extremely real. Definitely doesn't it make it any easier on the cops.
She dropped from a medical condition, other than lead poisoning
Lex_Luthor
08-11-2014, 16:23
That's a sweet BB gun. I want one.
Zundfolge
08-11-2014, 16:54
...if this doesn't convince you openly carrying a long gun in an urban area is a bad idea, nothing will.
While I generally agree that there's no real good reason to carry a long gun in an urban area, there is a HUGE difference between carrying a rifle and brandishing one ... it sounds like this guy was brandishing, not simply carrying.
She dropped from a medical condition, other than lead poisoning
Good news for the cops, still probably bad news for the department/city and the $$ that will get paid out for it.
SideShow Bob
08-11-2014, 17:51
Good news for the cops, still probably bad news for the department/city and the $$ that will get paid out for it.
Also Wally World getting sued for having this BB gun on the shelf out of the manufacturers packaging where customers could get a ahold of it and get killed as a result.
All the BB guns that I have seen at Wally World were in the manufacturers packaging, and it is no easy task to remove.
And the few that I have been to that have firearms departments with display models, they are secured to the shelf and out of reach.
Now, if this individual intentionally remove said BB gun from the packaging or managed to remove a display model, walk around the store talking to his wife on a cell phone with no muzzle descipline, and not obeying LE commands, well what can I say.......
Bailey Guns
08-11-2014, 19:20
While I generally agree that there's no real good reason to carry a long gun in an urban area, there is a HUGE difference between carrying a rifle and brandishing one ... it sounds like this guy was brandishing, not simply carrying.
I'm talking about the higher potential for an incident happening. I think that's definitely present, especially when you (as the person carrying the long gun openly) don't know how people are going to react and what they're going to say to the police upon seeing you.
One man's "open carry" is another's "brandishing".
OneGuy67
08-11-2014, 19:28
Why does everyone assume a lawsuit will automatically cause the agency/city is going to pay out? Most lawsuits are dismissed with summary judgment.
Why does everyone assume a lawsuit will automatically cause the agency/city is going to pay out? Most lawsuits are dismissed with summary judgment.
This is a good point. People sue insurance companies all the time, but they don't always win.
osok-308
08-11-2014, 19:35
While I generally agree that there's no real good reason to carry a long gun in an urban area, there is a HUGE difference between carrying a rifle and brandishing one ... it sounds like this guy was brandishing, not simply carrying.
Acting like a fake gun is real falls into the "felony menacing" category. If the cops believed it to be a real gun and this guy didn't drop it or comply, then it's probably a justified shoot.
Bailey Guns
08-11-2014, 19:36
Why does everyone assume a lawsuit will automatically cause the agency/city is going to pay out? Most lawsuits are dismissed with summary judgment.
I was sued a couple of times and didn't even know it.
Acting like a fake gun is real falls into the "felony menacing" category. If the cops believed it to be a real gun and this guy didn't drop it or comply, then it's probably a justified shoot.
Maybe one shot in the knee by one officer. No need to shoot to kill unless the gun is pointed at an officer or other person.
speedysst
08-11-2014, 19:56
Oh brother, here we go again.
Maybe one shot in the knee by one officer. No need to shoot to kill unless the gun is pointed at an officer or other person.
Bailey Guns
08-11-2014, 20:21
Maybe one shot in the knee by one officer. No need to shoot to kill unless the gun is pointed at an officer or other person.
I really hope you forgot your sarcasm smiley.
hurley842002
08-11-2014, 20:24
I really hope you forgot your sarcasm smiley.
X2
Maybe one shot in the knee by one officer. No need to shoot to kill unless the gun is pointed at an officer or other person.
If that happened, then people would only loot one check cashing store or appliance rental place and then stop.
Maybe one shot in the knee by one officer. No need to shoot to kill unless the gun is pointed at an officer or other person.
Or maybe just graze his arm, just to let him know he could be in trouble if he doesn't listen the next time
OneGuy67
08-11-2014, 20:33
Lots of fail here....
Or if he was wearing a hat, one of them could have shot it off, just like the westerns.
spongejosh
08-11-2014, 20:40
Clearly the officers forgot their training. Should have shot the gun out of his hands. [facepalm]
Clearly the officers forgot their training. Should have shot the gun out of his hands. [facepalm]
You mean they don't actually do any of these things???
Aloha_Shooter
08-12-2014, 00:30
Clearly the officers forgot their training. Should have shot the gun out of his hands. [facepalm]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMfBk_k_79g
RblDiver
08-12-2014, 10:15
They should have given him an Obama red line to let him know they were super serious!
Kraven251
08-12-2014, 15:54
Maybe one shot in the knee by one officer. No need to shoot to kill unless the gun is pointed at an officer or other person.
They were aiming at his knee. (I can't believe no one took the layup.) [Sarcasm2]
stoner01
08-12-2014, 16:05
I seriously want someone to try and shoot a knee sized target under stress. This whole notion of shooting a small target out of their hands or shooting to disarm is retarded
DireWolf
08-12-2014, 16:49
I seriously want someone to try and shoot a knee sized target under stress. This whole notion of shooting a small target out of their hands or shooting to disarm is retarded
As I see it, the only way is if someone is a strong instinctive shooter. I know for a fact that it can be done, but luck plays a part and I wouldn't want to put odds on it....harder to go wrong with center-mass....
clublights
09-24-2014, 20:11
The video is out .. they straight up murdered the guy.
Damn.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-video-finally-released-cops-shooting-man-toy-gun-wal-mart/
Try not to go too cop bashing guys ...
All kinds of stupid in the article and video on both sides of the argument.
Posted Via Glade Plug In.
jhood001
09-24-2014, 20:36
I agree.
He told the dispatcher, “He’s, like, pointing it at people,” and later told reporters, “He was pointing at people. Children walking by,” according to The Guardian.
(http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/07/ohio-black-man-killed-by-police-walmart-doubts-cast-witnesss-account)But a month later in an interview with The Guardian he had changed his story stating, “At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody.”
This is the 3rd video I've seen in the last few days where someone who didn't like seeing someone with a gun called the police and embellished their report regarding what the individual with the gun was doing with it. The other two were calls against open carry demonstrators with rifles slung on their backs. 1 911 call said they were waving them around. Another said they were threatening people with their firearms. Neither were true and there was video to prove it. Those people reporting false statements need to be punished.
I'll see if I can find the other videos.
Real life witch hunt, with real life consequences.
jhood001
09-24-2014, 21:17
Real life witch hunt, with real life consequences.
We can only hope. Happy hunting!
http://halloweencostumes.costumestore.com/117431_01_Lg.jpg
Bailey Guns
09-24-2014, 22:03
The video is out .. they straight up murdered the guy.
Damn.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-video-finally-released-cops-shooting-man-toy-gun-wal-mart/
Try not to go too cop bashing guys ...
I certainly can't come to that definitive conclusion from just that video. It's obvious people didn't want to go down that aisle with that guy. And it looked to me that he appeared to be raising the rifle just as the shot was fired. I couldn't tell if there was more than one shot fired.
I agree.
This is the 3rd video I've seen in the last few days where someone who didn't like seeing someone with a gun called the police and embellished their report regarding what the individual with the gun was doing with it. The other two were calls against open carry demonstrators with rifles slung on their backs. 1 911 call said they were waving them around. Another said they were threatening people with their firearms. Neither were true and there was video to prove it. Those people reporting false statements need to be punished.
I'll see if I can find the other videos.
False reporting needs to be a more reported crime.
But, at the same time, notice how many times in the video it said they couldn't find him. What happened in those moments?
I certainly can't come to that definitive conclusion from just that video. It's obvious people didn't want to go down that aisle with that guy. And it looked to me that he appeared to be raising the rifle just as the shot was fired. I couldn't tell if there was more than one shot fired.
Always so logical....
Posted Via Glade Plug In.
DavieD55
04-08-2016, 18:16
So apparently the s---stick who made a false report might be checking in at the grey bar resort for awhile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7WC39d-To
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